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how me a frog posted:That's harsh, Italy and Spain have been working hard and have improved a lot, afaik. You're wrong. They've hardly improved at all and in fact their long term prospects are poorer now than if they had told the austerity-fairy morons to go gently caress themselves.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:39
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This is a fascinating instance in which somehow the majority of Europeans are actually stupider and more self destructive than even Americans.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:42
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how me a frog posted:Fact or fiction? It's actual fact, fucker. Why don't you look up the employment rates in those countries if you don't believe me.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:45
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how me a frog posted:All non American economists agree that the fallout of GREXIT would be "insignificant, at worst" so I dunno what you're on about. If it's insignificant then why would you even care.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:50
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how me a frog posted:Ah, that is an intelligent argument and so very relevant aswell. I never thought of that. Feel free to post sources for your actual facts for this fucker to peruse at his leisure. Hey, you said Spain and Italy are doing great with austerity. They're not.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:51
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how me a frog posted:Because the greeks might vote NAI and that would get them a 27th chance, and being that I am a citizen of an actual useful country I don't want to foot the bill for that. It's interesting to me that a lot of people, like you, don't seem to realize that one country's imports are another country's exports, and that one person's profit is another person's payment and so on.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:54
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They need a stronger, more effective currency union or none at all. Californians don't really give a poo poo that they're subsidizing the gently caress out of Alabama or wherever, and Alabama isn't ever going to be in Greece's situation no matter how bad its economy gets. Maybe I'm being cynical but I think Germany et al understand this and if Portugal or whoever threatened to exit as well they would get way better terms than Greece. It might just be a matter of dumping sine deadweight before the Eurozone becomes more federalized.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:10
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how me a frog posted:Thankfully this is not some existential conundrum, the dice will fall and we'll see who was tantgibly right, and who was wrong, won't we? No, not really, since you're not making any argument at all.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:12
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adamarama posted:The Greek finance minister used to be Valve's economist. I guess selling hats for computer men doesn't translate well into complex macroeconomic negotiations. Who knew? Varoufakis hasn't been wrong about anything, really.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:59
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adamarama posted:For an expert in game theory, I think he misjudged how much the EU care about Greece. Its 2% of EU GDP. Sure, they'll probably reach some crappy deal but the damage is done. Capital controls and little old ladies hoping they win a raffle to draw their pension? Well played. He didn't misjudge anything. The BATNA for both sides is an exit, and neither side could really negotiate to a workable solution given political realities.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:01
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Phoon posted:varoufakis owns. he resigned because the germans hate him (he wrote a book that explains their success after ww2 is due to being an american client state and not their amazing work ethic as they claim) and he wants tsipras to have every advantage possible in the next round of negotiations Yeah. Do people really think he just suddenly resigned with no notice? This has been planned for a while as part of Greek negotiating gamesmanship. Notice how little surprise or acrimony there was from anyone involved. He wasn't forced out and this wasn't a spur of the moment thing. Rumors that he would go have been getting leaked from the Greek government for a week or more.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:26
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Slipknot Hoagie posted:but are they willing to make the changes that causes their economy to improve, and besides being willing, do they have the capabilities, and besides being willing and capable, will the changes actually be implemented and meet with success? raise ur hand if u have faith that giving greece more money-- without forcing austerity-- will help them turn the corner You can't cut your way out of a recession. That much is pretty obvious. There's a lot of room between austerity measures that don't work on the one hand and giving the Greeks money with no preconditions on the other. You're acting as if the Greeks haven't met any of the previous demands of creditors and as if they haven't been willing to agree to any further structural changes. But if they agree to stuff that will cripple their economy they will never be in a position to pay anything.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:35
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Darth123123 posted:Ok, what requirements will be dragging down growth? I'm naive on it really. Just surprised that some of the worlds leading economists are wrong and intentionally and certainly leading Greece to a default to not pay them the money they want back in the first place. Well, there's economics, and then there's politics. For instance, the IMF's own analysis shows that without debt relief (which is what Syriza has been pushing for), Greece is hosed: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0PD20120150703?irpc=932
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Jul 6, 2015 21:54
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