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Al Cowens posted:Also european explorers didn't bathe much meanwhile east asians spent every other day in an onsen or something similar even the poors. seems legit 
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Jul 9, 2015 22:06
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Zzulu posted:my country took mostly white slaves I could only imagine your ancestors disappointment with dad bringing home a red headed slave. You know they're just going to be unruly and petulant and steal liquor.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:08
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Ramsus posted:seems legit
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Jul 9, 2015 22:08
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lmao just lmao if youre white
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Jul 9, 2015 22:13
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white people are really good at stuff, they pretty much won the whole earth game and are now debating about what to concede so far we've given up math tests and running competitions, what more do y'all want
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Jul 9, 2015 22:14
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Demonachizer posted:Is it weird that I feel absolutely 0 personal responsibility for the way that black people were mistreated in the US? I think that it is pretty loving sad what happened and is still happening but I had nothing really to do with it. 
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Jul 9, 2015 22:17
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Edgar posted:
What
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Jul 9, 2015 22:22
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calling it a benefit from racism makes it sound like a zero-sum game. he doesn't benefit from racism, he benefits from being white in a racist system. it's a nuanced difference, but if you're looking to move people with words, best be dilligent. edit: This is a really read if you're white lite frisk fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 22:24
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lite frisk posted:calling it a benefit from racism makes it sound like a zero-sum game.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:26
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A great way to spend your day is to find reasons to hate yourself more than just for being fat, ugly and generally unlovable
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Jul 9, 2015 22:31
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Strudel Man posted:I don't really see the difference, to be honest my point is that a lot of the rhetoric about white people alienates a fuckload of white people who would otherwise want to fight injustice and inequality. when you say "you're benefiting from racism," there is an implication of an inextricable, inevitable, willful racism. when you say "you are benefiting from being white in a racist system" it removes the implication that you are somehow inextricably tied to being a racist. you can't help being white, but you can help change the system.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:35
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Ramsus posted:A great way to spend your day is to find reasons to hate yourself more than just for being fat, ugly and generally unlovable if you actually read the article, it lays out a very sober and nuanced view of race relations in america. it has nothing to do with white guilt edit: or white people being evil.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:36
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Ramsus posted:A great way to spend your day is to find reasons to hate yourself more than just for being fat, ugly and generally unlovable 
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Jul 9, 2015 22:36
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lite frisk posted:my point is that a lot of the rhetoric about white people alienates a fuckload of white people who would otherwise want to fight injustice and inequality. lite frisk posted:if you actually read the article, it lays out a very sober and nuanced view of race relations in america. it has nothing to do with white guilt.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:37
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lite frisk posted:if you actually read the article, it lays out a very sober and nuanced view of race relations in america. it has nothing to do with white guilt edit: or white people being evil. an article regarding race relations is useless just like uh, go outside
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Jul 9, 2015 22:38
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Strudel Man posted:I don't disagree with your first point, but in this specific circumstance it feels like you're splitting a hair that may not actually exist. i don't know how to do this without an appeal to authority (i'm in marketing), but tiniest words and phrasing can make an enormous difference in how people respond to things. for example, it's very likely that almost every buzzfeed headline you click on could have had a different word or two, or a different sentence structure. the reason they don't is because buzzfeed constantly runs split tests to see which headlines make more people respond. the difference can be staggering. why am i saying this? because if the purpose of your words is to move people to action (in business - to buy, in politics - to vote, in charities - to donate, in activist movements - to change minds/society), it is very important that you use words which will resonate with some essential value of the group you're targeting. why do you think apple is so successful? because they build top-of-the-line best and cheapest computers? lmao
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Jul 9, 2015 22:45
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lite frisk posted:i don't know how to do this without an appeal to authority (i'm in marketing), but tiniest words and phrasing can make an enormous difference in how people respond to things. If you're only saying that people will respond better and there's not actually a real difference in meaning, then fine, maybe so, and I don't really care.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:49
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I am 100% aware that I have benefited from being white and it is pretty stupid that that is the way things are. I think they are incrementally getting better compared to when I was growing up. I grew up in one of the worst neighborhoods in my city (maybe THE worst at the time). It was also one of the poorest and oddly enough had one of the largest populations of black people. City services were pretty much grudgingly given. Every bus servicing my neighborhood would be the oldest in the fleet. The roads were horrible. The schools were way underfunded. It was obvious to me even at a young age that it was based on race. Anywhere black people lived in the city they had it worse off. Now it seems a *little* better and I am super hopeful that as older people die and younger people vote and shifting demographics force a change then poo poo will finally be equitable. I have to also say though that I don't have any urge to live in a lovely neighborhood and am super glad I don't have to. Nobody I know from my old neighborhood would want to go back. Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 22:50
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in other words -- when you put emphasis on the racist system, you appeal to white people's desire for justice. the system is not necessarily their fault, and if it is, then they can do something to change that. when you put emphasis on how their whiteness (which they can't change) benefits from racism, you severely limit their possible immediate responses to the message. and gut reactions most often make or break it. they can ignore it, develop white guilt, become more racist, or do more extensive research about this (and lol if you expect people to do this last thing)
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Jul 9, 2015 22:52
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lite frisk posted:in other words -- when you put emphasis on the racist system, you appeal to white people's desire for justice. the system is not necessarily their fault, and if it is, then they can do something to change that. Strudel Man posted:If you're only saying that people will respond better and there's not actually a real difference in meaning, then fine, maybe so, and I don't really care.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:53
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Al Cowens posted:I said east asia not south asia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7o5VNdv8LI
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Jul 9, 2015 22:55
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Strudel Man posted:Great. The world always needs more Frank Luntzes. Do you think that there's a difference in actual meaning between "benefiting from racism" and "benefiting from being white in a racist system," or are you saying solely that people will respond better to the latter, despite them having the same meaning? yes i'm saying people will respond differently, and if you want to actually try to end racism then you should really care. but in addition to that i'm saying that "benefiting from racism" implies that there is something to lose from getting rid of racism, whereas the only real thing you will lose is a fractured and weak working class that allows the rich insulated on the top feel no pressure whatsoever.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:56
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hey man they were a strong clean and noble people 400 years ago but then unwashed white man came and now look at them
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Jul 9, 2015 22:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rnFlQAvk8U
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Jul 9, 2015 22:59
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lite frisk posted:yes i'm saying people will respond differently, and if you want to actually try to end racism then you should really care.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:59
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everyone is racist and diversity being good is a myth
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Jul 9, 2015 23:00
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Diversity is certainly good in the sense that it sucks, metaphysically, when something unique is lost, whether that be a culture or a language or whatever. Sometimes there's nothing you can really do about it, or maintaining that unique thing would be an unreasonable hardship on the people involved in it, but that's just the world.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:05
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Strudel Man posted:No, I'm under no illusions that I can do anything to end racism. I gladly leave that sisyphean job to the activists. lol you are worse than actual racists. they're mostly ignorant and/or hateful, whereas you pay lip service to look like a good progressive white boi and then just move on.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:06
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lite frisk posted:lol you are worse than actual racists. they're mostly ignorant and/or hateful, whereas you pay lip service to look like a good progressive white boi and then just move on. Reminds me, though - "boi" is another useful shibboleth.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:08
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Demonachizer posted:Is it weird that I feel absolutely 0 personal responsibility for the way that black people were mistreated in the US? I was under the impression this was how a majority felt.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:10
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Strudel Man posted:Harsh. because it's true? i'm not saying you have some duty to go out and get involved in an organization, at all. but both accepting the facts and then just going "welp, nothing can ever change" is literally the most destructive attitude one can have. maybe we don't know now how it can change. not so long ago a lot of people were going "well, segregation is bad okay, BAD, but we can't do anything about it"
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Jul 9, 2015 23:13
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lite frisk posted:because it's true? i'm not saying you have some duty to go out and get involved in an organization, at all. but both accepting the facts and then just going "welp, nothing can ever change" is literally the most destructive attitude one can have. maybe we don't know now how it can change. not so long ago a lot of people were going "well, segregation is bad okay, BAD, but we can't do anything about it"
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Jul 9, 2015 23:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIChQgzfQsA
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Jul 9, 2015 23:17
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in good faith though: i'm only saying this because i used to have the same attitude before i realised how damaging it was, especially to other people who were or might be in a position to make choices that will impact other people's lives
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Jul 9, 2015 23:18
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Strudel Man posted:Mostly I think it's fairly amusing how in two posts you went from "choice of rhetoric is important, because people will respond differently to differences in terminology for emotive reasons" to "you are worse than actual racists, you progressive-pretender white boi." you're absolutely right, poo poo... got too caught up/pissed off when you said you didn't think anything could change.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:21
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lite frisk posted:you're absolutely right, poo poo... got too caught up/pissed off when you said you didn't think anything could change. haha u mad
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Jul 9, 2015 23:22
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lite frisk posted:my point is that a lot of the rhetoric about white people alienates a fuckload of white people who would otherwise want to fight injustice and inequality. "Don't take this personally, but you're an oppressor and your mere existence perpetuates violence against the oppressed."
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Jul 9, 2015 23:28
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lite frisk posted:you're absolutely right, poo poo... got too caught up/pissed off when you said you didn't think anything could change. Whatever that makes me ideologically I guess is what I am.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:30
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hey guys just passing through
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Jul 9, 2015 23:42
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Strudel Man posted:Change is inevitable, and probably improvement's on the horizon, but I don't expect an end to racism ever to occur, any more than an end to murder or to people saying nasty things to one another. Legally, I think equality under the law is a pretty decent place to be, and I'll continue to quietly support that as a private citizen at the voting booth and at the polls, along with attempting to treat people as fairly as I can in my personal and my professional interactions. I just don't particularly want to get caught up in a crusade to cure the evil in men's souls. that's cool. while i can't back this up, i think an end to systemic racism is definitely possible. perhaps no end to personal prejudice, but i feel like it might eventually reduce to irrelevance. the reason everything seems so tense and depressing now, i think, is because we really only started seriously talking and thinking about racism very recently. i mean not even a century has passed since the civil rights movement.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:44
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