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Shadow
Jun 25, 2002
like engaging in 2 wars and cutting $2trillion in taxes so we do it all on credit? if they were responsible they wouldn't be collapsing... and who knows where we in the US end up in another few decades. our empire's just too big at the moment so we'll keep coasting as the biggest show in town for a little longer.

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Shadow
Jun 25, 2002
^^ when people tell me socialism doesn't work and use countries like Greece as the reason for it, that is exactly what I tell them. Greece's issue isn't socialism. They don't DO anything except tourism and complain about Turks and Albanians. Can't build an economy around that unless your military is enormous.
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Haven't been following that closely, but drat.

I've said it before (I'm not an economist, but whatever), but the proper solution with bailouts is to bailout bottom up. Imagine if mortgage holders who couldn't pay their mortgages due to bad incomes and variable interest rates got bailed out with a path to get back on track or to gracefully lose the house? Sure "entitlements" but if mortgages continued getting paid and houses weren't going into foreclosure left and right, the banks would have kept lending to businesses and entire communities may not have gone under.

Is this really a bad idea?

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002

Nuclearmonkee posted:

This is basically what happened in Greece except now the Germans and other Euro governments want their loan back. No one was or is willing to accept that the loans are bad and cannot be paid in full.

Force creditors to take losses on bad loans. Obviously you don't let your banks collapse but ideally you have strong frameworks to prevent them from over-leveraging to the point that this is a risk (Which is hard because capitalism actively erodes institutions that do things like this :v:). The idea that you can loan someone money, charge them based on their risk profile and then never actually accept any real risk since you can just have the government pay you off when the debtor can't is extremely hosed up. Just lend money to everyone and collect profits. Socialize the losses and hand them off to the government so taxpayers can cover your mistakes.

Christ.. what a mess.

Thanks for the recap!

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002

Moridin920 posted:

I lived in Germany for a while and those dudes are such sticklers about the tiniest little bit of rules or paperwork that they spawned world famous author Franz Kafka - famous for writing about nightmare bureaucracy.

They'll probably be cursing Greece and demanding their payment in full 200 years from now.

Deals with them are like deals with the devil. They don't give a poo poo about bad faith or exigent circumstances. You signed ze papers goddamnit.

lol this is so true. my german and austrian clients were the worst with regards to paperwork. took one of our guys 6 hours each sunday to deal with it. then they got pissed off because we billed that time.

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