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Bastion Nine The cover story... Cannith. Deneith. Ghallanda. Jorasco. Kundarak. Lyrandar. Medani. Orien. Phiarlan. Sivis. Tharashk. Thuranni. Vadalis. Have you ever even been to a city before? Have you tasted a fine wine, or perhaps enjoyed an exotic tea? Have you ever paid for anything in your life? If you have done any of these things, your life has been touched, and in a large part dictated, by those lucky enough to be born into one of these houses. Individually, they are the wealthiest, most influential, most well-connected groups in recorded history. To cross one of them is to invite disaster, although to gain one's favor is much the same, as it will no doubt offend a rival house. Collectively, they are the most powerful group the planet has ever seen, and but for luck itself have they managed to avoid working together to conquer the world, if not rising to challenge all planar existence on a whim. It is that latter part where a man like Bastion comes into play. Although the houses are each individually powerful, they are rooted in a political world. There is no such thing as 'can not' when it comes to The Dragonmarked Houses, but there most certainly is such a thing as should not. A Dragonmarked House should not cross another house openly, unless they wish to find themselves embroiled in a rivalry that will span generations. A Dragonmarked House should not risk its most talented and powerful members on matters that do not require their attention, and also should not distract their up-and-comers from valuable training and education. A Dragonmarked House should not part with arcane and divine talent when it can part with money and favors instead. Each house has its own variant of these and many other similar protocols, of course, but they all share a common thread: why buy the cow when you only want a glass of milk? Enter, stage left, Bastion Nine: private investigator, personal bodyguard, and artifact recovery specialist. He is admittedly little more than a face among the adoring masses, one of a thousand pairs of hands employed by the ruling elite when it encounters a task beneath it in some manner: although that is perhaps precisely how he wishes to be seen. Since arriving in Sharn six months ago, he has performed a number of less-than-legal activities for three of the Dragon-marked Houses, and has proven himself to be a discrete and seemingly reliable operator. Part of the reason for this rising tide of approval and favor is that he does three things exceptionally well. First, he follows instructions. That's the most important bit. He listens to his employer's words and executes them. Good luck finding a man like that on the ground without birthing them yourself. Second, he keeps his god drat mouth shut. He doesn't reveal house secrets, he doesn't talk about the specifics of former contracts, and he doesn't explain things to people who don't need to know: furthermore, he will literally kill you if you attempt to pry these things from his mind. Every house is aware of that, because it's in the fine print of every contract. So far, nobody has called his bluff on the matter. Third, and finally, he gets the job done. The only catch is that you don't get to ask how the job got done. If you're hiring him, you should already be well beyond the point of caring about the details. The real story... Whenever you see a troll overturn a fruit stand, or a group of goblins drag away a penniless gambler, or a hobgoblin dealing dreamlily, Daask is probably behind it. All of the non-human races involved in Daask originate in Droaam, and there are some rumors that the gang is state-sponsored. Although the gang is best known for its monstrous members, a significant number of humans and shifters fill its ranks. While the Boromar Clan focuses on graft, Daask makes its presence known through physical violence. Although their fights sometimes lead to death, its assassination racket is not as large as House Tarkanan, and its members are better suited for armed robbery and muggings. The other profit engine for Daask is their narcotics trade. Dreamlily, dragon’s blood, and heartflow are almost all under the gang’s purview, and dragon’s blood is only available from Daask. The gang is based in Khyber’s Gate, and their business has begun to overlap heavily into Boromar territory. But because of the gang’s cavalier attitude, fluid membership, nomadic headquarters, and concentrated strength, they have posed a serious challenge to the long-established clan. There’s an interesting thing about criminal organizations run by trolls, hobgoblins, goblins, bugbears, and their ilk, though: nobody with a brain trusts them. At all. Moreover, expanding into lands controlled by humanoid races – such as Sharn – is a bit of challenge when your membership tends to be viewed as ‘those things people new to the adventuring business deal with to develop a reputation as a hero’. To that end, Daask hasn’t survived by operating without at least some amount of discretion. It takes a keen eye, a subtle hand, and a significant proficiency in manipulation to play matchmaker between human clients in need of brute strength and the ‘monstrous’ races capable of providing that service. Enter, stage right, Bastion Nine: negotiator, spy, infiltrator, thief, and wet-work specialist. Rather obviously, the man isn’t a member of a monstrous race, with his carefully manicured nails, pressed clothing, and plucked eyebrows. As a half-elf, he’s an unlikely candidate to be caught working with hobgoblins and trolls. That unlikely matchup is precisely what keeps others from suspecting the true nature of his business dealings, however. The half-elf arrived in Sharn six months ago, having recently accepted a contract to act as the eyes and ears of the Daask. So far, he has performed well in his chosen role. By day, and often by night, he accepts contracts within the city for his services as a private investigator, or a bodyguard, or something in between. The right-side-of-the-law equivalent of a hardened criminal, in many ways. This is all a cover, of course, because being good at his job means he develops a reputation, and developing a reputation ultimately means getting earmarked for projects that will inevitably lead to more lucrative work with the Dragonmarked Houses. His role for Daask is two-fold: first, if he sees an opportunity to recruit a promising individual with the proper racial pedigree, he points them in the right direction of the Daask. Someone else handles the character assessment, interrogation, or whatever else might be appropriate in the circumstances. Second, he keeps an eye on the street: the Daask deal in illicit narcotics, and are inherently protective of their territory. If and when other individuals start dealing in substances deemed to be in competition, it doesn't take long for a talented half-elf like Bastion to find the source, and ensure something unfortunate happens to them. As for the man himself, some suspect that his true motives suit his own ends as much as they do the Daask. However, that's par for the course when dealing with men with his particular skill set. He hasn't done anything to earn the ire or suspicion of disloyalty of his favored organization, and has willingly attested to having no intention of doing so within the confines of a truth-compelling enchantment. So far, that's been good enough for anyone bright enough to ask the question. How hard would it really be to outsmart a hobgoblin, though? Questions and answers... Q> What is your role within the house? A> Bastion Nine works on a contract basis as a private investigator, and has worked for several of the Dragonmarked Houses. He has done enough work to earn their trust, at least as far as anyone outside of their own bloodlines is ever able to earn it. His specialties are in the areas of private investigation, bodyguard duty for important individuals, and the recovery of lost or stolen materials. S> Bastion Nine acts as an agent of Daask throughout the Sharn. When the need arises, he is an infiltrator, a spy, a charlatan, a break-and-enter artist, or a dozen other things. His primary role is recruitment and observation. When he encounters a promising individual, he points them in the direction of Daask if they're of the right bloodline. And when an opportunity arises to help sabotage the competition, he passes the necessary information along to the right people. Q> Are you a native of Sharn? A> No. Bastion Nine arrived in Sharn six months ago from places unknown, and he is generally unwilling to speak about his past. When pressed, he does explain that he was sent to Sharn by his father in order to help build a future for those he left behind, but that is as far as he has gone into the matter. Q> What is one secret that you know that could get you into trouble? A> Bastion Nine has accepted contracts for several of the Dragonmarked Houses over the past six months, and during the course of those contracts has come into contact with various matters that would be considered sensitive information. Hardly anything dangerous, but certainly things that might be construed as embarrassing: the marriage-threatening dalliance of a prominent member of a house that needed to be paid off to leave town, and then forcibly escorted as far away as possible, for example. The amount of bribes paid to law enforcement and tavern owners in order to keep various narcotic addictions among younger members of certain houses out of the media and general public knowledge, for another. Fortunately, his contracts are very clear about one thing: if anyone endeavors to read his mind or otherwise pry these or other secrets from his head, he will murder them in cold blood. Nonetheless, he knows enough to get a regular man killed, and he is certain that at least a few houses have casually thought about breaking that aspect of the contract once in a while. He really hopes they don't. S> Among other things, Bastion Nine is an agent of Daask. That membership comes with knowledge that many would kill for, including places and names one could use to purchase narcotics or poisonous substances, the location of a handful of black markets, and similar dark dealings. He's exceedingly careful with that knowledge, and doesn't slip up, but people would kill for it. Fortunately, he would also kill to protect it. Character concept and various mechanical things... I am playing this build in a different game, but would like to try it out in a module that has a deeper amount of political intrigue and connection to the larger world in which we're operating. I will start as a half-elf rogue with the criminal background, progressing to a multi-class rogue (assassin) / warlock (Great Old One: pact of the chain) to level six. After that it will depend on how the game goes, I suppose. The character will have a heavy focus on at-will illusions, deception, disguise, divination magic, enchantments, and surprise attacks when the situation calls for it. That said, I won't have a dragon-mark with this character history, and would prefer to start the game with the observant feat instead. This facilitates my role as a private investigator, scout, spy, infiltrator, and so on. Hopefully that's fine. pre:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Name: Bastion Nine Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Race: Half-elf Background: Criminal (spy) Class: Rogue (1) Size: Medium STR 8 (-1) [ 8 base] (0) INT 12 (+1) [12 base] (4) DEX 16 (+3) [15 base + 1 racial] (9) WIS 13 (+1) [11 base + 1 racial + 1 feat] (3) CON 10 (+0) [10 base] (2) CHA 17 (+3) [15 base + 2 racial] (9) Perception 20 [10 base + 5 skill + 5 feat] Investigation 20 [10 base + 5 skill + 5 feat] HP 8 / 8 [8 rogue + 0 ability] AC 14 [11 armor + 3 dexterity] Proficiency +2 [Lv. 1] Initiative +3 [ 3 base] Speed 30' [30 racial] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Special abilities: Race: Half-elf +2 Charisma / +1 Dexterity / +1 Wisdom Skill proficiency (performance) Skill proficiency (persuasion) Language proficiency (common) Language proficiency (elvish) Language proficiency (primordial) Darkvision • Can see in dim light within 60' as if it were bright light. • Can see in darkness as if it were dim light. Fey ancestry • Advantage on saving throws against being charmed. • Immune to sleep. Class: Rogue (Lv. 1) Skill proficiency (sleight of hand) Skill proficiency (stealth) Skill proficiency and expertise (investigation) Skill proficiency and expertise (perception) Save proficiency (dexterity) Save proficiency (intelligence) Tool proficiency (thieves' tools) Language proficiency (thieves' cant) Sneak attack (+1d6) Background: Criminal (spy) Skill proficiency (acrobatics) [Replacing stealth] Skill proficiency (deception) Tool proficiency (dice set) Tool proficiency (poisoner's kit) [Replacing thieves' tools] Criminal contact • You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who acts as your liaison to a network of other criminals. You know how to get messages to and from your contact, even over great distances; specifically, you know the local messengers, corrupt caravan masters, and seedy sailors who can deliver messages for you. Feats: Observant [Bonus] • +1 Wisdom • If you can see a creature’s mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it’s saying by reading its lips. • You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Proficiencies: Skills: Athletics - 1 --- STR [0 proficiency - 1 ability] Acrobatics + 5 Criminal DEX [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Sleight of hand + 5 Rogue DEX [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Stealth + 5 Rogue DEX [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Knowledge (arcana) + 1 --- INT [0 proficiency + 1 ability] (history) + 1 --- INT [0 proficiency + 1 ability] (investigation) + 5 Rogue INT [2 proficiency + 1 ability + 2 expertise] (nature) + 1 --- INT [0 proficiency + 1 ability] (religion) + 1 --- INT [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Animal handling + 1 --- WIS [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Insight + 1 --- WIS [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Medicine + 1 --- WIS [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Perception + 5 Rogue WIS [2 proficiency + 1 ability + 2 expertise] Survival + 1 --- WIS [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Deception + 5 Criminal CHA [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Intimidation + 3 --- CHA [0 proficiency + 3 ability] Performance + 5 Half-elf CHA [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Persuasion + 5 Half-elf CHA [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Equipment: Arms Simple / Hand Crossbow / Longsword / Rapier / Shortsword [Rogue] Armor Light [Rogue] Saves: Strength - 1 --- [0 proficiency - 1 ability] Dexterity + 5 Rogue [2 proficiency + 3 ability] Constitution + 0 --- [0 proficiency + 0 ability] Intelligence + 3 Rogue [2 proficiency + 1 ability] Wisdom + 1 --- [0 proficiency + 1 ability] Charisma + 3 --- [0 proficiency + 3 ability] Languages: 4 [3 racial + 1 class] Standard (2): Common, Elvish Exotic (2): Primordial, Thieves' Cant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Spellcasting: It is a mystery. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wealth: Arms Dagger [x 2] [Rogue] ( - gp) 2 lbs. 1d4 piercing / finesse / light / thrown Rapier [Rogue] ( - gp) 2 lbs. 1d8 piercing / finesse Shortbow [Rogue] ( - gp) 2 lbs. 1d6 piercing / two-handed Arrows [x20] [Rogue] ( - gp) 1 lbs. Armor and clothing Leather armor [Rogue] ( - gp) 10 lbs. 11 AC Clothes (common) [Criminal] ( - gp) 3 lbs. Dark and hooded Equipment Thieves' tools [Rogue] ( - gp) 1 lbs. Crowbar [Criminal] ( - gp) 5 lbs. Belt pouch [Criminal] ( - gp) 1 lbs. Gold pieces [Criminal] ( 15 gp) 1 lbs. Burglar's pack [Criminal] ( - gp) - Backpack - Bag of 1,000 ball bearings - 10 feet of string - Bell - 5 candles - Crowbar - Hammer - 10 pitons - Hooded lantern - 2 flasks of oil - 5 days of rations - Tinderbox - Waterskin - 50' hemp rope Carrying capacity Strength 8 [ 8] Carrying capacity 120 lbs. [ 8 * 15] Push / drag / lift 240 lbs. [ 8 * 30] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Waador fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 19:00
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TychoBrahesNose posted:To be perfectly honest, this will be really tricky to pull off successfully, for several reasons. I get the impression that House Tarkanan is quite...antisocial. Yeah, Thuranni and Phiarlan are also known for their assassins or whatever, but those Houses at least have a respectable side and are major players in Khorvaire society, so they are significantly invested in the status quo. On the other hand, House Tarkanan just wants to watch the world burn...starting with Sharn. How would your character get along with a party full of Dragonmarked when (on paper at least) the organization to which he has pledged his undying loyalty wants them all dead? I made a few edits to the backstory to cover this a bit more cleanly. For starters I've split it into a 'public knowledge' character background, and a 'criminal element' character background, to help distinguish how I present myself to the world at large as opposed to what is going on behind the scenes. I've also amended the details with regard to dragonmarked individuals, safe-houses, and so on to be less of a wide net. Functionally how I am trying to position it is that the only job Tarkanan wants me to do is nudge aberrants in their direction when I have the opportunity. As a natural consequence of that role, I know their names and identities when I meet them and nudge them towards a higher-ranking contact in the organization, which is where a handful of safe-houses and other meeting points come into play. It isn't intended to be read as a high-ranking but inexplicably unmarked member of the house, but rather a field agent that has an important role that only an unmarked individual can safely do. As for the ideology piece to it, we might be operating under different source material. I am mostly reference this, which seems to lay out the following core concepts for the organization: > Tarkanan nonetheless has a reputation for assassination, thievery and other unlawful deeds. > House Tarkanan's objective is to search for those who have aberrant marks, recruit them and train them to use their powers. They don't seem to be written as Dark Six-level psychopaths, though I admit I haven't read everything published about them, so could be wrong. I'm perfectly happy to switch the criminal element background up a bit and cast my lot in with the Tyrants or something similar, but Tarkanen seemed a better bit since it would enable and encourage me to have a stake in the dragonmarked world and provide a plausible reason for wanting to get into their particularly dangerous affairs. Happy to talk it over and find the right balance.
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Aug 17, 2015 06:06
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Made a few additional edits to be allied with Daask rather than Tarkanan. Let me know if that works a bit better for what you had in mind.
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Aug 17, 2015 09:43
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TychoBrahesNose posted:Yeah, Daask doesn't make me nearly as nervous about party cohesion as Tarkanan does, and could certainly be fun in a lot of different ways. The only other thing I'm a little bit hesitant about is your description of a veteran of the clandestine services who is the go-to guy for any and every House whenever they want plausible deniability. That is certainly a worthy goal to aspire to, and could very easily happen in-game, but it still doesn't sound like "Level 1 Rogue" to me. So if you don't mind, just tone down your character's Awesome Quotient a bit for now -- maybe he has worked for a couple years with one or a few different Houses, rather than for every House over many years? As for the 'magical-ish' item, I have three concepts in mind, let me know if you prefer any one over the others in terms of what you can do with them story-wise: Item concept #1 posted:
Item concept #2 posted:
Item concept #3 posted:
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Aug 19, 2015 03:33
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TychoBrahesNose posted:Right now I'm envisioning the leveling up happening relatively quickly, though with interludes (of somewhat arbitrary length) between specific plot-relevant events. So I'm not so worried about the gain in social standing (of whatever sort) not matching up with characters' power levels. Poison use has a weird curve to it, as it's non-existent until level 4 and then comes up all the time. Essentially, what you'll need to decide on in advance is the mechanics you want to use for extracting poison from poisonous creatures. There's guidance in the DMG that requires a nature check. How it comes up is that the warlock-specific familiars all have a poisonous attack of some sort, so generally the plan is to give them a full-time job of extracting and bottling their own poison for later use. This post covers my initial interpretation of the mechanics, though there is some ambiguity that needs to be navigated. Oddly in this game that might not be out of place if the rest of the group are 1%'ers who could buy poison with pocket change anyway. I'll likely decide which to take (if I get picked as a party member) depending on the alignment spread of the rest of the group. Practically speaking if everyone else is going to balk and call me a monster for poisoning a water supply, or hooking up some knockout gas to a ventilation duct of a mine or something, I'm not going to pick an item that's just going to make the party angry all the time. If they're a decent spread of lawful evil and chaotic neutral it might be worth it, though.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:34
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TychoBrahesNose posted:Making a nature check or using the appropriate tool proficiency in specific circumstances sounds about right to me, but a "constantly masturbating imp" seems like an abuse of the spirit of what the familiar is supposed to be for, to me. Off the top of my head, I'd say a familiar could help in the crafting of a poison, but it's still going to take some of your own time to prepare/package it properly. And milking them for infinite amounts of poison is right out. There's nothing in the D&D rules about snakes running out of venom, for example, but in real life they can only be milked infrequently (though more often if you don't care about the well-being of the snake). Fortunately there are rules (or at least guidance) for how characters can profitably employ their skills during down-time, and I think that applies to "manufacturing poisions" just as much as it does to "playing your lute in a bar". Also, if/when you've got access to sufficient resources, you might not even have to make the poison yourself. Behind the scenes, the real thing to consider is that the warlock familiar is arguably a better character to play, relative to the level 3 warlock summoning it, in most cases. This changes after a few levels, but at the time it becomes available it has more options available to it than the player character (at-will invisibility, flight, shape-changing, poisonous attacks, other eccentricities depending on whether it is the sprite, imp, or quasit, plus a relatively long-range telepathy and ability to share its eyes and ears with its master, as well as the intelligence necessary to approach situations in a dangerous manner). Using it to produce poison to enhance the party's attacks, while still keeping the player characters in the spotlight, was the intent in that particular game. Which avenue is more attractive is admittedly heavily dependent on factors such as party composition, the threats faced, time pressures attributable to those threats, and a number of other variables, though. TychoBrahesNose posted:At the moment there's only one character app of the Good persuasion, though there's one who's Lawful Neutral and one who's Lawful Evil as well. The rest are various flavors of Neutral. I can't speak for all the players, but I suspect there would be issues if you're randomly/gratuitously murdering those that don't deserve it, but utilizing poison in the service of the party's communal goals might be OK. Also, since you're of the assassin persuasion, maybe you can get away with it without everyone else knowing? As to your actual question though, as far as doing things without people knowing, in general that's probably the approach I will take if I can convince myself in-character that it is 'for their own good' or something along those lines. It's just a matter of what is plausibly doable without people becoming aware. As a player I am willing to convince myself that I could deceive a lawful good paladin for an entire campaign that I am a good person, while poisoning my daggers before every major fight and simply never telling them or lying to their face about it. I am less convinced I could maintain a deception that involves manufacturing (or purchasing) and bringing an entire barrel of poison with me on our adventures, if the party isn't okay with its presence and use. At a certain point, no matter how hard you tell people not to look in the barrel, someone will eventually look in the barrel, is the thing.
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Aug 19, 2015 07:02
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DaemonWyrm posted:I wasn't sure what to put for artisan tools for the Handler's guild. Any suggestions? Other than maybe one or two of the artisan tools, most of them are pretty narrowly used for mechanical purposes and are really just avenues to help define your character and give him personality, so it might be worthwhile to think about it in that lens and see what feels right.
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Aug 20, 2015 22:17
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DaemonWyrm posted:lol, yeah I don't really see him as much of a napkin kind of fellow.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:00
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A little behind my planned schedule but I edited my background on the previous page for the various minor detail alignments we talked about. Should be about where it needs to be now. If I get picked I'll probably add in some greater detail as to which specific houses I have worked with and what the work was, but that will depend on the houses of the selected dragonmarked characters to start building some sort of bonds between characters (or their houses anyway).
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Aug 24, 2015 01:25
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A Darker Porpoise posted:Six of those eight are casters and who needs a sword when you can incinerate someone with your mind? Muscle wizard is actually a rather effective build, if Hoard taught me anything. Waador fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 05:14
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The majority of the casters also have sixteen dex while the other two of the eight are rogues and why would you ever take strength over dexterity as a rogue when your main damage dealing ability and your armor all key off of your dex mod. 
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It will likely be wise to have some sort of IRC channel to coordinate the complexities of a 10-man party.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:58
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DaemonWyrm posted:I'm in, anybody know how to do that?
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Aug 26, 2015 23:24
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Quorum posted:Is the package the changeling stole clearly evident on his person? If not, is it apparent where he put it? And in any case, how much effort would it require to swipe it and run like hell away from the horrible panther monster? "As he walks around the crates to engage the dwarf, Celio sees no sign of the dwarf, but he does just catch a glimpse of a larger (if skinnier) pallid-skinned form wriggling through a rent in the carriage's side. It swiftly takes up a pack overstuffed with glamerweave fabric, topped off with a sheet of sailcloth wrapped around something about the size and shape of a human head." Followed by: Yes, that's Celio's Magic MacGuffin that the changeling is absconding with! So, it sounded like the object was readily recognizable and strapped to the top of his backpack. I would assume he is running off with as much as he can carry, so the entire backpack might be heavy and a bit of an effort to remove from him, but I would suspect lifting your package off the top of the bundle would be an easier task? I was thinking of acting along the same lines but if you get to it first since you're closer I'll pursue something else of value with my turn. --- On an unrelated matter, as we progress in the story and [presumably] get closer to leveling up, I need to figure out how I am going to progress in rogue and warlock levels. A few questions that I would benefit from knowing the answer to in advance when figuring that out are as follows: > How are we going to handle stealth? I am mostly asking in terms of hiding in combat, but in general this would be good to know as well. Is it going to be a stealth check contested by their passive perception, or an active [but free] reactive roll? Just want to understand what the action economy looks like for something to fight me while I am hidden. Obviously if someone wants to burn their action in combat on an active perception check that's their prerogative, but I am mostly focused on what the default opposition will be. Knowing how it will work in the following three scenarios is probably all I need to have enough of an understanding to plan my levels accordingly: 1> Engaged in combat with a creature, I roll a 20 to hide, against a creature with passive perception of 12. Is there an active roll for their opposition if they don't burn an action in combat to get it? 2> Engaged in combat with a creature, I roll a 9 to hide, against a creature with passive perception of 12. However, I am outside the range of their darkvision, and they are in a light source, but I am not. Do they 'automatically' know my location, or are they just alerted to my presence but otherwise forced to guess a square to target if they want to attack from range? 3> Not engaged in combat but sneaking up on a creature that is actively keeping watch. (In this case I would assume I need to beat their passive and that they also probably spend each turn making an active check?) > How are we going to handle targeting (which is alluded to in #2 above). Stealth becomes significantly less viable as a defense if we don't have tactical grid combat, depending on how it is abstracted, so would like to know what I am getting into. Essentially, if I am unseen, do they need to target a square (abstracting that with a 1dX roll?), or will it just be reduced to disadvantage on an attack without regard for targeting of squares? > How are we going to handle the saving throws on minor illusion, silent image, and similar illusion spells (which use the same wording)? The way I read it, you need to physically interact with the illusion (i.e., be within 5' and burn an action, movement, or interaction) to automatically determine it is an illusion, or spend an action to study it in order to be allowed an active Intelligence (Investigation) check to determine it is an illusion from range. That said, I have seen other interpretations, so need to know how these spells are going to work before I build a character around them. A few questions to help guide my understanding would be: A> An illusory wall is between NPC1 and Player1. NPC1 is 100' away, and hasn't touched the wall. He fires an arrow at the wall. This is not an explicit save condition of the spell, as the arrow has physically interacted with the wall, but NPC1 has not. What happens? B> As above, but NPC1 is aided by NPC2 and NPC3. What happens for NPC1, NPC2, and NPC3? C> As above, but NPC1 walks through the wall, immediately realizing it is an illusion, as that is an explicit save condition of the spell. What happens for NPC2 and NPC3? D> NPC1 is trained in Knowledge (arcana), and correctly identifies a spell being cast as an illusion. How does this affect the explicit save conditions of the spell for NPC1? E> NPC1 correctly identifies the spell as an illusion, and points this out to his allies, NPC2 and NPC3. How does this affect the explicit save conditions of the spell for NPC2 and NPC3? My reading of it is that whether or not a person has 'saved' against the spell (through either stated save condition) is determined on an NPC-by-NPC basis, as with any other spell. "Physical interaction" is not a defined term, which introduces some vagueness to the spell line, however. I personally struggle with how physical interaction can be done at range, but that's an interpretation I've seen so would like to understand the mechanics in advance. Waador fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 18:36
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Thanks for this, it helps clarify how to progress. I normally wouldn't worry if I were playing a cleric or druid or something where I can just switch up my spell slots if I decide I don't like how a particular spell works, but with warlock invocations being what they are understanding how things work before taking them seemed like the wiser course. Same for whether a second level in rogue for cunning action was worthwhile.TychoBrahesNose posted:I haven't seen specific rules covering such a scenario; if they exist, please point them out to me so I can check my own thoughts against what the designers have already come up with. But off the top of my head, I'd say they don't know precisely where you are (on account of not having sufficient visual capabilities) but the Stealth was a failure, so they know someone is there. > The roll of a 9 (stealth) vs. a passive perception (12) should mean that the creature detects me. Precisely how they detect me is, of course, dictated by the situation. If I am sneaking up on them, this probably means that a surprise round is no longer possible unless circumstances change. If we are already in combat, although the situation might dictate they don't know my precise location, they probably have a fair idea of my general location (i.e., "I just heard a sound to my right!" or "I just heard a sound from behind that bookshelf!"). Interestingly, the mechanics behind being 'aware' of a foe and 'seeing' a foe are very different. > In the example given, I am outside of the range of their darkvision, and they are in a light source, but I am not. This results, effectively, in the area beyond their darkvision being heavily obscured, as defined on page 183 of the PHB: "A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A)." This then immediately applies the blinded condition versus anything outside the range of their darkvision, even if they can hear or smell it (to use the most common examples), which itself is defined on page 290 of the PHB: "Blinded: A blinded creature can’t see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have disadvantage." This situation is further defined on page 194 of the PHB, which states: "Unseen attackers and targets: When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly. When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." Taking all of that information together, you get something approximating the following: 1> There is a significant distinction made in the rules between sight (seen vs. unseen) and all other senses (hearing, smelling, and so on). Regardless of whether you can detect a creature with hearing, smell, or similar, if a creature can't see an opponent, there are a number of disadvantageous conditions applied. Relevant key quotes from the rule sources include: "When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll." "When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it." As an example, an elf with 60' darkvision is facing a drow with 120' darkvision in a cavern. The drow is able to reliably keep the elf within his sight, without ever entering his range of darkvision, as they have the same speed. Although the elf can hear the drow's footsteps and the sound of his bow firing (and feel the impact of the arrows), he is not able to see the drow. As a result of this, the drow's attack rolls are made at advantage, and any retaliatory attack rolls by the elf are made at disadvantage. This is because the drow is attacking an opponent that can't see him. Similarly, the elf is attacking a target that he can't see. 2> All is not lost for the elf, however. The rules are clear that when an attack is made, the firing position is revealed to observers nearby, inclusive of the person being attacked. The relevant key quote from the rule sources for this is: "If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses." To further the example, this means that the elf should be able to retaliate with some degree of effectiveness. If the drow is in a sniping position from which he has not moved, the elf should be able to return fire with an attack roll at disadvantage. 3> However, although the DMG and sections of the PHB indicate that tactical grid combat is optional, it does appear to be assumed with regard to targeting. This makes it even harder for the elf to target the drow, as pinpointing his exact location requires a bit of guesswork. The relevant key quote from the rule sources for this is: "This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly." To continue the example, there is no issue if the drow is firing at the elf from a sniping position, and not moving. The drow is perhaps choosing to do this because he has some amount of cover from his location, or some other reason. If that is the case, the elf continues to make attacks at disadvantage, because the firing position of the drow is automatically revealed when he makes an attack, even if the elf can't see the drow. Unfortunately, if the drow moves after shooting, the elf now is assumed by the combat guidelines to have to guess the square of his attacker. If he can't see him, he may be able to narrow down the direction he went with his hearing, or other senses. A creature with a speed of 30' could retreat to a significant number of potential squares on his turn immediately after firing, making it almost impossible for the elf to land a retaliatory strike. This is probably abstracted by a die roll, starting with the number of squares the drow could possibly occupy (we can assume 20 for this example), and perhaps he targets the right square on a roll of 20 on a 1d20. If he can narrow down the direction the drow went, that might improve to a 1d12, and if it is a tight corridor or other confined area, the squares may be further reduced to 1d8 or 1d6 possible options. Nonetheless, even if the elf does target the correct square, he still has to make his attack rolls at disadvantage, meaning his chances of surviving the combat are quite poor. In fact, the only hope the elf has may very well be to ready an action to immediately return fire when the drow reveals his position. This interrupts the drow's turn after he fires, but before he can move, ensuring the elf can target the correct square. The attack roll is still at disadvantage as the opponent is unseen, but at least the elf now has a fighting chance. If he is more experienced than the drow, or perhaps has better equipment, he might even claim victory over his opponent. The mechanism to abstract the targeting is, of course, the hardest part. It requires some effort to determine the number of potential squares the enemy could possibly occupy, and might involve a few knowledge, perception, or similar rolls to accurately understand the area, the speed of the attacker, and other relevant factors. Overall based on your response I think we're on more or less the same page with regard to what to expect from stealth, which is comforting. TychoBrahesNose posted:That's how I would interpret this situation too, though active checks every round for 8 hours would be exhausting -- I'd probably give them Disadvantage on the active check if I were feeling generous toward you. TychoBrahesNose posted:Defined "aided", if you mean something different from E>, below. Overall based on your responses to the illusion line of questions, it sounds like the trigger is going to allow saves against the spells, rather than immediately shutting them off for observers, which seems fine to me. I don't have any issue at all with an archer firing an arrow into a wall, and either making a with-advantage or with-disadvantage (depending on distance or other factors) investigation check against my spell save DC to begin seeing through the illusion. My only concern was if we were going to fall towards a ruling where one archer fires an arrow through a wall, and without any save he and his five swordsman companions immediately see it as an illusion, and then can see through it. Mentally, I sort of equate it to hypnotic pattern: one person can make the save, and nine others can fail. That one person who makes the save can then absolutely help his failed-save companions out of the condition, but that takes time and effort (and wastes their actions). But that one guy making the save doesn't automatically render everyone else free of its grasp without him doing something about it. The arcana piece I struggle with personally, as well. On one hand, if I know which spell was just cast, I am going to react to it accordingly. But knowing it is an illusion isn't necessarily the same as having met the save condition of the spell, so while I may not be afraid of the illusory displacer beast, and will walk through it, I don't know if I should be able to see through it the moment it is cast. Maybe identifying the spell allows an immediate free saving throw? That way you have the knowledge of what it is, and might even immediately overcome it, but could still end up thrown off by the magic. Where that becomes important is probably if successive illusions are cast. The first time, nobody might know what is going on, but the second time, most enemies are going to have their suspicions. Until they validate those suspicions with a save, though, the spell still plays with their senses, even if their mind is telling them something else. Kind of like stage magic, I suppose: you know the magician isn't actually a sorcerer, or cutting that woman in half, but that doesn't mean your eyes aren't deceived while you observe what is going on. Anyway all of this seems likes it makes sense to me, thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Sep 16, 2015 20:15
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djw175 posted:I thought Hex did it, but looking it up that's only ability checks, not saves so oh well. I'm gonna use it for the extra damage anyway. No joke I love the number of hexes up in this party. I would recommend hexing strength or dexterity in this scenario. An athletics check to grapple the beast and another to prone it will reduce all of its future attacks to disadvantage, and also set its speed to 0, which will render it significantly less dangerous. Most things have terrible athletics scores relative to a player trained in it, so once it is hexed it's pretty much guaranteed to lose in a wrestling match. Obviously, someone will have to actually grapple the thing, but ...well, that's what 1d6 commoners are for.
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Sep 17, 2015 19:56
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Ryuujin posted:Also Hex is still a great spell, especially for Warlocks who can refresh it on a Short Rest, get scaling spell slots so it will eventually last longer than the short rest needed to recover it, and who eventually get multiple attack rolls with Eldritch Blast. And in a party with a Grappler? Hex is even more awesome. Given the number of warlocks in the party, this is actually probably an important thing to confirm. Are we able to maintain concentration on a spell while taking a short rest? The PHB and DMG seem to leave this to DM interpretation. I think it's mostly clear-cut that you can't maintain concentration while asleep, but a short rest just requires 'no strenuous activity', which is a bit different. The game seems to assume that you can, with various spells having 8H, 24H, or permanent duration so long as concentration is maintained, which sort of implies to me that you can take short rests while maintaining concentration, but it isn't explicitly stated. There is also a very niche case for elves maintaining concentration in trance that might be worth figuring out in advance. The text on trance seems to suggest they are 'aware' of their surroundings while taking a long rest, but the way I read it seems to suggest they would be spending their concentration on the meditative trance, rather than an active spell, which would continue to preclude concentration during a long rest for elves. I could see someone taking a different view on either point, though. Waador fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 21:01
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djw175 posted:Does the displacer beast to the left still have its disadvantage thingy?
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Sep 25, 2015 16:48
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Can we perhaps add some sense of scale to the map? Measuring the pixels, it seems like the displacer beasts are 30x30 (plus or minus a few), which suggests that 30 pixels is 10', given that they are large creatures. I am presently 170 pixels from RM, which would work out to 55', so a 60' dash should get me to her and a bit beyond. However, I don't really want to measure pixels for every round of combat.
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Sep 30, 2015 15:18
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Are we waiting on additional people to act? I think the current buckets are basically... > Have Acted > Bastion / Tharn / Celio / Elizara > Have Posted (but not acted) > Reava / Nebra > Are Not Conscious > Colum / Cain > Have 3 Turns to Take > Kalud / Leshanna
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Oct 5, 2015 20:45
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Sorry, I was out of town from Friday to Monday, so hadn't had a chance to check the thread. My plan had initially been to get on a horse, and use the 80' or 120' movement per round (plus an infinite ammunition warlock) to just shut down the encounter so that the melee things don't really get to participate. If the commoners are now arming themselves I might encourage them to make their collective hundred attack rolls or whatever to get through this that way as well, will post shortly once I figure that out.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:18
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TychoBrahesNose posted:Waador, properly untethering the mount from its harnesses and whatnot will actually take several rounds of actions. I assume you don't care about that, though, so I'll give you simply hacking through all the attachments (and maybe dragging some behind when you move) as an Interaction. Or you could just hop in the driver's seat on the wagon -- the Animal Handling roll is the same either way, but maneuvering is obviously different when you're pulling a wagon. TychoBrahesNose posted:Also, they're draft horses and they don't have saddles or stirrups, so you'll have some kind of penalty (Disadvantage?) to avoid being thrown if such a roll is required at some point. That said, the horses are also Vadalis Magebred animals, which in this case gives them additional strength/hauling power and bonuses to avoid getting spooked by ferocious critters in their vicinity (which also explains why they've been happily munching on grass during the chaos, until they were told to do otherwise).
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Oct 16, 2015 02:44
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Do we have a good sense of who is and is not still playing? To a certain degree I am trying to figure out whether to take another level of rogue, or a level of warlock, which is influenced by the number and classes of other players. As far as I can tell we for sure still have Nebra, Tharn, Elizara, Reava, Celio and myself, but that's a bit of a weird makeup of artificer, cleric, bard, warlock, rogue, rogue. Cain has dropped, but Colum, Kalud, and Leshanna are kind of up in the air. Have they said anything to anyone else on the subject?
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Oct 24, 2015 01:24
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It is probably worth confirming which sources can be used to build our characters on level up, as the underlying material continues to grow in scope. Did you want to keep things limited strictly to Player's Handbook, or use some of the other books that have been released as well? For my own part I am mostly looking at the Elemental Evil player's companion, as it contains a few cantrips that are a bit more interesting than the stock in the Player's Handbook (specifically referring to mold earth and control flames, for my take). I have also, however, been avoiding posting a formal level up until checking out the Sword Coast Adventure Guide, which releases tomorrow, on the off-chance that there is anything interesting in there (and that it happens to be in scope for use), though. There is also a fair amount of unearthed arcana being published as of late, although I haven't read through much of it other than the no-spell ranger archetype. Popular opinion seems to be that the arcana is of variable and sometimes questionable balance, although having played a core wizard and core druid I can't imagine they've done anything worse than portent or wild shape. Anyway just wanted to confirm before I figure out how things look on level up. The only thing it really changes for me is the appeal of Arcane Trickster vs. Assassin on the rogue side, and potentially which patron is more interesting on the warlock side, depending on what is in the book release tomorrow.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:22
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I am not entirely sure where the secret keeping discussion is coming from but considering I plan to read everyone's mind about twelve times a day I don't think it'll end up applying anyway. That said my preference is probably not to assume that everything I know/think is shared in the background, and rather actually have dialogue with other party members in posts, since that lends to actually getting to know one another and developing a rapport. Practically speaking I don't really intend to withhold any of my analysis from anyone, since I see it as a good opportunity for marketing during an incident where a lot of houses have eyes on the situation. That said I am presently at a loss to understand how we are going to come to a point where we have any motivation to work with one another in the long-term. Maybe that is going to take care of itself through further tragedy or shared danger, but we're just passengers on a train and aside from a few brief interactions most of us don't seem to know or care about one another, which doesn't bode that well for long-term cohesiveness. I guess it sort of depends whether the next scene is us back in Sharn or if something further happens in the forest, but it seems fairly likely that we would just go our separate ways once we get back to Sharn? For my own part, since it seems Quorum has dropped, my current motivation is likely to get him and his package back to Sharn so that I can be rid of him and collect my reward. I am endeavoring to buy some goodwill with House Vadalis via the telepathic offer to keep the obvious lies of their story under wraps so that it turns into a longer-term contract to absolve them of any guilt in this incident (and also because I want access to the steady stream of magical beast poisons that only their house can provide). Theoretically there is going to be an inquiry on this matter after we get back to Sharn (if we get back to Sharn?), so I assume they are going to have some kind of interest in hiring a neutral third party investigator to help prove their innocence. That positions me to at least want to keep tabs on the other people that were on the train, since odds are at least one of them is either a) guilty or b) going to also investigate the incident for their own reasons and might happen upon information that will be useful for my needs. I also probably have an interest in remaining in contact with Reava longer-term for a few reasons, including the fact that her slinging eldritch blasts everywhere is a pretty good clue about the source of her talents, so my natural paranoia and curiosity wants to ferret out who her pact is with. On the less investigative side I'm also interested in chilling with her since we worked well together to deal with the threat, and as she's obviously a bit of a glass cannon (as far as I think) I suspect it'll be a good pairing to keep her safe while she mows down threats, so I figure that might turn into a decent follow-up bodyguard contract similar to the one I had with Celio. I would imagine my motivation is to accept the Vadalis contract under the table to prove their innocent and then justify my presence in any expedition that looks into it with a bodyguard contract so that I can collect two payments for one job. Presently I don't think I have any real motivation one way or another to remain in contact with anyone else on the train. The gnome's attitude makes me laugh but not enough to really want to be best friends or anything, and I don't think I've really spoken to anyone else in great length. Waador fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 16:23
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TychoBrahesNose posted:Effortpost incoming -- not sure if I'm going to drop it all in one big chunk though, since that will take longer to write. But rest assured I'm working on it. The second part with regard to telepathy is actually laid out on page 9 of the Monster Manual and/or page 260 of the SRD. The relevant text is also here for convenience. That said, there was a tweet by one of the game designers that contradicts this, but in general they have no idea how their game works or what is written in any of their books so I've mostly ignored everything he has to say. Though, in his defense, the tweet in question was on August 28, 2014, and the Monster Manual was first printed in September of 2014, so it may have been a design decision changed late in the game.
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Feb 20, 2016 15:17
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There are definitely a number of good discussions to be had on the issue in terms of game design and how a game should be written. I think in this case it depends on how you phrase it, though. You can have a few competing statements, for example: Path A posted:Message is a cantrip that allows you to privately discuss with a single target within 120', so long as you both share a language. It is equally valid to take the other path, which goes along the lines of what has been said. Path B posted:Awakened Mind is a class feature that allows you to have a one-way conversation with any creature in existence, so long as it possesses a language. I don't think either is an inherently wrong approach, though I think my main caution is that it is generally unwise to gauge the strength of class features in the vein of comparable spells. A class feature comes online very early in the game (in the first three levels), and is generally the strongest ability the class will have for the entire game. A few examples: > A second-level rogue can move at 60' per round, faster than 99% of opponents, while still attacking. If he doesn't want to fight in melee, that's that. He can do this every round, forever. > A second-level druid has more hit points than the rest of the party combined (in most cases), and also has higher damage per round and more attacks per round. He can do this twice per short rest (and one of those rests might be underground while he is a mole). > A second-level wizard gets to tell the DM what the result of his die rolls are when it's convenient for him. He can do this twice per long rest, but even that on paper sounds absurd. From a design intent perspective, it's hard to argue that class features aren't intended to be about fifty times better than any comparative spell of equivalent level. Cunning action is objectively better than Expeditious Retreat, despite both being accessible at first level. Wild shape is probably competitive with polymorph, despite the latter being accessible only at seventh level (obviously this is a bit harder to gauge since polymorph has higher level forms, but the ability to wild shape a dozen times a day is a pretty strong argument for it). Portent results in such situations as a PC telling the DM "I cast suggestion, and the NPC rolls a 3 on his save, he does what I want."
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Feb 20, 2016 20:28
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Ryuujin posted:Spells gained: The alchemist class write-up reads: "Vocation Spells: You can cast Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Prayer of Healing, and Mass Healing Word spells. They cannot be learn as such by other Artificers." So essentially, when you choose your vocation, I believe these are effectively added to your list of spells you can cast, but it doesn't reduce their spell level. So you'd be limited to casting Prayer of Healing from level 5 onwards, and Mass Healing Word from 9 onwards. It seems to be similar to how divine domains work in that the spells are added to your list but you still need the right slot to cast them. It does say these spells are "always prepared and don't count against your maximum prepared spells" but without the slots to cast them it doesn't matter much. Admittedly the class write-up is classic ESL and not proofread at all, so it's hard to say what they intended, but I can't imagine it intends to drop the vocation spells down to first level. Otherwise you should absolutely just go with the elemental binder vocation since it would give you conjure minor elementals and conjure elemental as first-level spells (which is further evidence that it definitely doesn't work this way, though). Anyway just something to keep in mind as it might modify your spell choices and plan for the next few levels, and probably better to figure this one out before we're in combat and need healing. edit: I also think you get spells known on top of the vocation ones? Not sure how that works though. Waador fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Mar 2, 2016 |
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Mar 2, 2016 18:39
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slydingdoor posted:tl;dr: ● Whether it's a PC or an NPC, I think a creature should get chances to react so long as they have something useful to do in the situation. In the case of a PC, if they fall off a cliff (or an airship), I agree, you might only get one save, because the only useful thing you could do is not fall off in the first place. Once you're in free-fall you might be screwed, unless you have a spell that helps (feather fall, misty step), or some relevant equipment (a parachute, perhaps a grappling hook and rope). In those cases, the amount of time you spend falling might actually matter. ● In the case of a flying NPC, I think, in general, it probably has opportunity to correct its course, as its ability to fly hasn't changed. So if it takes 10 rounds to fall to the ground, that should give it 10 turns to do something. However, from my perspective, I do think it probably gets significantly harder to do something useful as you fall. In context, I would probably say I'd have expected a DC 10 dexterity check to not fall in the first place, scaling upwards to DC 12, DC 14, DC 16, DC 18, and DC 20 with each successive round that it fails its previous save. At a certain point, if you're a flying creature with a speed of 30', or 40', or even 60' per round, that isn't actually enough to correct for the downward vertical thrust you've already achieved. The fact that the flying mount failed six saves in a row and is now travelling down at a rate of 900' per round (which is 102 miles per hour) really doesn't bode well for it. ● As for our current situation, I think how far he is falling (and has to fall) probably does matter. If he failed 6 saves, but still had 30 rounds to fall, that would provide a lot of time to bleed off speed before he impacts by gliding. As I understand it, he has fallen 4050' feet, achieved a downward speed of 102 miles per hour, and has another thousand or so feet to fall. Even if he rolls a 25 on his final save, you can't safely bleed off 102mph of speed in 6 seconds, so the final rolls are probably really only going to reduce the damage he takes, if anything, rather than allow him to fly off into the sunset unharmed. I might be wrong about that, or underestimating the levers that the former rider has to pull with regard to feather fall and such, but if we're talking purely from a physics perspective that seems likely where we will end up. I don't really have a horse in this race one way or another, as I just wanted to be an rear end in a top hat to an NPC, and got precisely what I was looking for out of this. The issue, though, which I think is probably fair, is that the mechanics of what is happening aren't clear. We as players don't know (and perhaps don't really need to know, but apparently would like to know) whether the save DC's are getting harder, or what the ramifications of a successful save would be, so there is admittedly an appearance that it's a bunch of rolls to give the plucky dragon a chance, so I can see why sly wouldn't love that impression after rolling hot.
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Apr 7, 2016 22:04
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From my perspective it looks like the NPC's are being given as many chances as can be justified, 5-7 so far, to avoid any lasting consequences my rolling exceedingly well and blowing hero points in an attempt to accomplish something impactful. I don't believe that bodes well for me any PC for the rest of the campaign who isn't expecting one to be selectively simulationist and probably railroady.