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Oh god another unionize the programmers thread
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Aug 18, 2015 03:46
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| # ¿ May 2, 2024 19:00 |
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SquadronROE posted:Hah! Gotta love how titles are just meaningless when you go to tech sector. Like "Technology Evangelist". Remind me to punch whoever thought of that term in the face multiple times with a power glove or something
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Aug 18, 2015 03:55
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Solkanar512 posted:You're moving the goal posts. Your original claim was that unions are too outdated to apply to modern jobs. I pointed out that this claim is full of poo poo when you look lots of different nations across the world. The only country I can think of that's true for is Germany, and that's because Germany's economy is disproportionately tilted towards manufacturing.
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Aug 18, 2015 04:06
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Series DD Funding posted:Appealing to "isn't it obvious" isn't even substantial by d&d standards One of the big problem with American unions is precisely that they are filled with smoke filled backroom deals done by the senior management that usually involves screwing over newer guys so the older members gets better benefits
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Aug 18, 2015 04:55
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blowfish posted:That's because it essentially is. You are not applying for a job, but to become one of a bunch of nerd friends obsessed with webcomics, and even get paid enough to not starve. It's quite possible they believe their own poo poo about making your work environment better rather than paying you cash, because you are supposed to spend all day with your fellow webcomic obsessed nerd friends rather than provide a service in exchange for money. But given the current tech job market only somebody who is genuinely weird enough to like webcomics more than $$$ would apply anyway
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Aug 18, 2015 05:14
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Nessus posted:I don't get this "a structure for 19th century work can't handle the 21st century workplace" or whatever. We're using the same spoken language (with some updates) since then, and many other social and technological innovations will probably not be majorly disrupted by the magic of putting raspberry pis on things. Why does this somehow happen to apply to workplace justice? Technological change, especially labor saving ones, and globalization are two examples of things which has marked the decline of American unions since the 1970s
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Aug 18, 2015 05:29
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Nessus posted:Right, I don't get the ontological argument here though. Obviously unions have declined, but in other countries they have not, which suggests that they have not somehow become in and of themselves obsolete in the face of a computer. The ones that unions haven't seen decline are Germany and....someone mentioned Norway. Germany is probably the better example (no oil to fund everything) and it's because the country is disproportionately focused on manufacturing and structures their society around it. The point is that the US doesn't seem to be an unique in this, strong unions in the 21st century are the exception rather than the rule.
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Aug 18, 2015 05:36
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icantfindaname posted:So barely four pages in and we've arrived at "you can't reasonably agitate for better working conditions because there are starving children in China" That was fast It's not that you can't, it's that when kids in their early-mid 20s are getting paid 70k-120k annually they are a lot less likely to complain then factory workers barely having enough to eat back in the 1880s
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Aug 18, 2015 05:58
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An Angry Bug posted:That's because those employees are easily exploited short-sighted idiots who need to be protected from themselves. perhaps we need a vanguard startup to lead the mass of exploited software developers into the correct labor market organization
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Aug 18, 2015 18:21
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Solkanar512 posted:See all that bolded text? Salaries don't mean poo poo if you can't ever leave work, are constantly sexually harassed or "managed out" on a whim of an abusive manager. Having that negotiated contract outlining how employers are to be treated and compensated means that the rules are applied in a fair and even handed manner - and when they aren't, there is a legally binding process to deal with it. 1) Most people in the tech industry, even on the west coast, gets to work between 9-10 and leaves between 5-6 2) Sexual harassment is an issue in the IT industry, but unions in the US have being pretty socially conservative, and have traditionally hated women and minorities because they competed with white male workers for jobs. I'm simply not sure if unions actually solve the problem.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:13
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Solkanar512 posted:I won't disagree with the history of race-segregated unions and what not, but looking towards the gains made by unions in women led industries like nursing or the $15/hour campaign for fast food workers (around 60/40 split white/non-white form what I can find) shows me that traditions are much different today. But that's kinda the thing though. Nurse's unions made gains for women because they are probably majority female. An union in the tech industry would be vast majority male, which means that they would suffer the exact same problems with gender discrimination as currently experienced.
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Aug 18, 2015 21:09
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BlueBlazer posted:Meh your right, just so much worker rage lately. Average salary iirc aren't -that- high for new grads, it's just the ones who do get shitloads of money are disproportionately loud about it It's actually pretty hard to pass amazon/google/FB/MSFT interviews
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Aug 19, 2015 04:22
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BlueBlazer posted:That paying sperglords a disproportionate amount of money compared to their peers creates a sense of entitlement and disconnect from the world at large? That everyone should attempt to work to the same level as them and their privileged time? quote:The only reason I bring unionization up is that these work practices/environments are bleeding out of the software development bubble into the rest of the white collar world and the only way it's going to stop is through collective action in the workplace. That's not because of labor practices though, that's because of technology being produced like the smartphone. E: unionize the programmers threads are also amusing because it's like the one time when D&D leftists actually gets to talk to the workers they want to unionize, and the result is usually to insult and alienate them. Typo fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 05:09
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computer parts posted:I'm interested in demographics of workers, do you have any links about this? Particularly the Bay Area if possible. I'm not sure about the bay area, but that has being the case in just about every company I worked at outside of SF startups.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:19
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Cicero posted:I basically agree with you, I think you're just missing the original context for this sub-thread, which was a non-programming engineer expressing dismay at how much more new software engineers (at some companies) make than him. That then turned into a discussion around "why do even very junior programmers at these companies make so much money?" Those ranges seem way too high to me, I know people who started around 100k but those estimates seem to be 30-50% too high
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Aug 19, 2015 06:17
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:I don't know, libertarian software devs and their arguments are always worth a laugh most software developers aren't libertarians though, majority of the ones who are political and are in 20-30 range would be Obama supporters E: come to think of it, I only know 1-2 people from tech who are libertarians, and the one time when one of them posted some poo poo on fb about Ron Paul right after 2012 elections and how he should have won instead of obama other people who were also in tech basically told him that ron paul is retarded Typo fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 07:34
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Tab8715 posted:I was just about to respond with this and I didn't say liberal/conservative but "fiscally conservative". You'll find that those in STEM are okay with gay marriage, legalized weed, sex outside marriage but flips when you have things like social security, socialized medicine, etc I think that's true of the general American population as well though socially liberal and fiscally conservative is a pretty popular political position all around since the 1990s, it's not something restricted to STEM fields
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Aug 19, 2015 19:31
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ChipNDip posted:Who cares? They only make up a fraction of the industry. They just get all the attention because mobile apps are sexy and interesting. Silicon valley is a small part of the overall tech industry, it's just that media loves to suck fuckenburg's dick so it gets disproportionate amount of attention. basically everybody loves a "get rich quick" story and the media will give people that besides covering the story of 40 year old who work on software printing banking statements is pretty boring
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Aug 19, 2015 21:15
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| # ¿ May 2, 2024 19:00 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:This came up back in 2003 in Texas (and didn't go anywhere). The state engineering board chairman had a pretty good explanation: loving hell this is the irl version of the dickwaving contest between the CS program and Software Engineering program at my school
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Aug 20, 2015 20:58
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