The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Al-Saqr posted:

Your point would make sense if the superpower of the world wasn't built on taking in the people other nations kicked out when they thought the same way you do. There's a reason why the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says what it says when greeting the people too different to be accepted by their narrow minded countries of origin or Europe.

If a single country in Europe were a tenth as good at assimilating people as the US is, none of this would be happening, but as it stands they're divided between the governments that mean well but have no idea how to do that and the ones that don't want to try in the first place.

But seriously, Angela loving Merkel is the hero of the hour. The woman who wants to austericize Greece to death is one of two leaders in all of Europe who's courageous enough to take in a minority population while the Hungarians build a border fence and Cameron gets to play the hero by "giving in" and taking 10 or 20 thousand?

I could not be more disgusted with the EU right now.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 22:02

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 13:08

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Effectronica posted:

I have to wonder at the people who appear to believe that military force is inherently ineffectual. Do they ever think about what they say, or are they confusing policy with reality, much like Karl Rove and Dick Cheney?

Military force is effectual when there aren't a number of bright lines you are unwilling to cross. As soon as you can't cross those bright lines you are hosed. See, e.g., the last fifty years of recorded history.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 14:37

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Effectronica posted:

Yeah, the real reason the US lost in Vietnam had to do with their unwillingness to cross certain lines, rather than a decade of idiotic policies.

Both

chessmaster13 posted:

Anyways, if things go south to much here in Europe I will be the first to GTFO to greener pastures.

If things go too far south in Europe good luck finding a place to GTFO to on the same planet

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 15:06

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Ah yes the stable crime free tax havens of South Africa and Belize

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 15:16

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

PerpetualSelf posted:

No i'm just a anti-semite.

I've been radicalized against the Israelis and Jews by their foreign policy and continued reliance on our taxes to ensure their existence and their apartheid state. Not to mention their complete control of the media which they use to ensure poverty amongst the lower and middle classes and spread their form of poisonous capito-fascism to the world via the control of the media thanks to well known Jew 1% master Rupert Murdoch.

We need popular revolution of the proletariat against the jewish media overlords to ensure freedom of though for the working classes.

PerpetualSelf posted:

Also the United States biggest mistake in Syria was their failure to commit to Assad and propup one of the few remaining Secular states in the Middle East. Secular Democracy which in 90s seemed inevitable in the middle east is now a pipe dream. They committed the same mistake in taking out Saddam Hussein. The only hope for secular states in the Middle East post-bush is via dictatorship whether you like that or not. The final result of the Syrian war will be a Secular Dictatorship or Sharia law of some form. There is zero hope for secular democracy in the Middle East.

PerpetualSelf posted:

Explain why secular democracy has failed to take root in any middle eastern country and why free elections in iraq, afganistan, and Egypt has only lead to people like the Muslim Brotherhood winning.

Explain why the only hope for secular government in the middle east was the B'ath party and when the United States stepped in and removed or opposed B'ath leaders the forces that took over were mostly Sharia and those seeking Democratic Secularism were minorities.

We are in a 4 way civil war where two of the combatant parties want Sharia law in one form or another. The third is a secular dictator and the fourth doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

There are secular Muslims out there. But they're in loving Iran.

If this was the us civil war and the refugees were a bunch of southerners fleeing the south half this forum would be going on and on about how they deserved what they got for being redneck hillbilly traitor racists that enabled slavery and genocide.

PerpetualSelf posted:

I don't think Europe or England understand what true Diversity, Tolerance, or Common Sense means anymore and that this whole endeavor is going to fail miserably.

But not that I care. I'm a American. gently caress the pissant little Europeons. Seen so many people compare this event to the growth in France from immigrants and people pointing to that failure as a reason it can never worked all while ignoring how loving insular French society is in the first place and how loving xenephobic their culture is from the outset.

Diversity sure as gently caress isn't going to mean accepting every little cultural standard or tradition - these things are supposed to meld: the best traits of one, the best traits of another, into a overall national identity.

Europeans like to treat it completely differently. They are so drat insular and cling so much to their antiquated meaningless kings, queens, old rulers, tea time, lovely languages, nude broads in their loving newspapers, sports traditions, food, drink, and so on that they'd never give a chance for that to happen. So things will be segregated from the get-go. Which means it simply will not work.

I mean I'd love this to happen for all the refugees to settle down, integrate into society, the national identity and culture to meld to where Hummus, Tabbouleh, and Shawarma became part of the standard national cuisine. But the rise of the european right means there is only going to be violence, discrimination, hate, and hate crimes for the far forseeable future and the effects of those people, and their political policies will ensure any kind of proper cultural fusion is impossible. Any Muslim thinking of going to Europe in this day and age should think twice about the likelihood of having his whole family hacked down with an axe by a neo-nazi crazy.

I don't understand why we can't just do massive airlifts of refugees to the richer arab states and laugh at them if they try to stop us.

Just tossing a few of these gems out there for posterity

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 20:32

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

mikemil828 posted:

If given the option would refugees really want to come to America? Europe's the place with the social safety nets, the universal healthcare, the mandatory vacations, etc. If Europe has the resources to handle everyone and according to you guys they do, why should America take anyone who would not be able to handle our 'gently caress you got mine' society, it would be cruel imo.

Radbot posted:

Yeah let's be honest, why in the everloving gently caress would you choose America over any western European country if you're a Syrian refugee, or a person with a functioning brain?

ITT Americans who have never been refugees or lived in Europe leftsplain how bad America is while thinking shipping container people smuggling is a thing that can happen.

Having done both, Germany/Sweden/America are probably pretty close together in terms of resources for newcomers, all of them are head and shoulders above everyone else in the EU and the sheer amount of racism towards immigrants that ~~will hit the EU in ten years~~ is hitting the EU now makes America a really tempting choice.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2015 22:55

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

mastershakeman posted:

Adar, what does America grant in terms of resources for newcomers? I was under the impression it was a cold, uncaring country.

Depends, but official refugee status grants quite a bit - you get Medicaid, food stamps and some basic assistance along with immediate employment authorization. There's a sample list at http://www.rcusa.org/post-arrival-assistance-and-benefits. Also, if you're a single male trying to earn enough money to bring the family over, the US is by far the best especially if you know some basic English (as opposed to Swedish - nothing against Sweden but c'mon nobody's learning any of that in six months).

Yeah, if you're brown, the police are more likely to stop you and you might even wind up in jail for no reason. This is both not a thing that's in any way different from most of Europe and also not a thing that most refugees are immediately going to experience or care about. Radbot and co. are bitching about the horrible American treatment of the same people who are literally being fed nothing but pork by Hungarian cops taunting them right now, and it's not even like France, Italy, etc. are much better.

Adar fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 16, 2015

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 17:36

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Cake Smashing Boob posted:

The problem re: family reunification isn't money so much as it is permission. Travel (legal travel) is relatively cheap and may even be covered (depending on country of refuge, refugee status etc).

In refugee cases, permission is easy to get for direct relatives, but a)these are Syrians/Afghans so you have to imagine there are tons of cousins and in-laws and b)you still need the money to get the rest of the family smuggled out at least as far as Turkey, which government channels won't cover. It doesn't matter because they don't have the option, but if I had to earn $10K doing menial labor the US is a much better place to do that in a hurry than Europe.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 21:15

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Lowtechs posted:

It is obvious that SA should start to accept it's quota of refugees.

Uhh if anything SA is about to go full Syria and everyone ITT is months away from the great Reddit diaspora

e: what I mean by that is gently caress off we're full

Adar fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Sep 27, 2015

# ¿ Sep 27, 2015 16:27

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Do "Syrian" refugees owe different amounts of reparations to each other based on their former ethnic group and amount of atrocities the group has respectively committed or are they all mixed into the single global underprivileged pool? How do the Kurds, who are now unquestionably the least oppressed of the bunch, factor into this - do they owe reparations to ISIS or do they get a free pass? If they get a free pass when does it expire?

# ¿ Sep 27, 2015 22:10

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

my dad posted:

Effectronica, I have no idea what the gently caress you're doing right now, but the closest guess I can make is that you're arguing for the sake of arguing, without an actual goal in mind. Hail Tzeentch.

It's funnier than finlandchat so hey why not

btw do reparations get paid to biracial people and does it matter if they can pass for white?

# ¿ Sep 27, 2015 22:25

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 13:08

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

just fyi the response to "have you stopped beating your wife yet" is not a long, confused silence followed by going into an ontological debate on the meaning of the word "wife"

# ¿ Sep 27, 2015 22:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience