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praise nuffle
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Sep 12, 2015 06:59
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guessing it's less "reasoning" and more "incompetence"
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Sep 24, 2015 13:36
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there are more effective things for GRs to do than cover a position that another positional is good at. Plus getting +AGL on a thrower is neat.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:52
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You can also do really mean things with frenzy or grab if you're smart about blocking off their push areas. Knocking a dude into his buddy, which pushes another buddy into the crowd. You can get a pretty mean conga line going.
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Sep 28, 2015 11:59
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I hadn't seen the plasmoids changes before; they're pretty interesting. A fairly light touch, as well. Too bad BB2 doesn't allow custom rulesets because it's a horrible mess where they can't even implement pass block, somehow.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:56
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Yeah, tackle is already one of my least favourite skills, design wise, for being a counter skill that is either crippling to dodge/stunty players or totally irrelevant. Having another weird interaction where a skill is now specifically countering a counter skill is, well, inelegant. Claw kind of has the same thing going on, but it's not a "gently caress that skill in particular" skill at least.
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Sep 28, 2015 15:24
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this may signal me out as an apostate but maybe there isnt much value in having perma-injuries in the game, since it just seems to encourage really bad behavior
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Sep 30, 2015 15:34
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oh, i know it has functions to the gameplay, but there's a lot of detriment that it causes, mainly the whole "i played a team and it knocked me 800 TV gg" problems and this "oh i just concede against bashy" sort of mindset. it winds up creating this sort of twisted meta where it doesn't matter if you win or lose a game, what matters is how you now have a hopelessly crippled team that makes playing certain teams/players just totally not worth it. i mean its sort of an appropriate thing for people to just pussy out of playing against certain teams but ehhh i think part of the issue is that replacing players is actually sort of a pain in the rear end, where you have to grind out a few games sometimes before some positional even become useful. i think that's what the player-buying mechanism is meant to alleviate, so losing a high ranked player doesn't just cripple you for x games.
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Sep 30, 2015 15:45
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Stagger_Lee posted:Having perma-injuries kind of is the point of the game. I agree that it interacts awkwardly with perpetual open-matchmaking leagues, though. That format isn't really where Blood Bowl is at its best, although I don't have a great alternative that wouldn't require more active upkeep. yeah it makes a lot more sense in closed leagues with a set start/end point sort of deal and where you really want to win games even as you murder mans since thats the whole point of the deal (and where you'd not care as much about your team getting gutted since "gently caress you im winning the league")
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Sep 30, 2015 15:49
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ProZocK posted:I see your point, but i think most teams actually can do a good job with no skills on any player, and in the case of the ones who dont (Lizardmen Saurus and Chaos warriors come to mind) you really just need one skill for them to be worth it. What teams do you think become unplayable with a 800 drop in tv? Ehhh unplayable is maybe too hard a phrase but there are teams that don't really do well at low TV, and its not really a fun thing to have happen to people, generally. Its more just a cost-benefit problem when you're in an open league and get pitted against 2500 TV Chaos Murderfuckers; sure you can maybe win but you probably won't and your attempt will potentially break your favorite doll men and cost you a lot of gold for a completely pointless pyrrhic victory, so why even play? It'd be nice to have a system where a person would look forward to playing games instead of running to the hills. there's probably a really clever and effective solution out there but im too dumb to come up with it right now
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Sep 30, 2015 15:55
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lol if u think im buying bb2 
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Sep 30, 2015 16:23
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yeah my magic solution would be doing what CRP+ did, and also maybe adding some big incentive to winning against a dude higher than you in TV or some fucker on a hot streak that or some boon to soften the blow on having your players die, like being able to take out life insurance before the game so having all your players get murdered would result in a nice payoff really from a game design perspective tho, id think any sort of consistent pattern of players conceding should be a red flag that something is kind of hosed and should be addressed. itd be a lot more ideal if all players could have fun against all other players but idk maybe its just something that can't be helped (like dwarves. nobody loving enjoys playing with dwarves. there is nothing that could be done, for they are loving short baleful bastards)
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Sep 30, 2015 16:46
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Dallan Invictus posted:Today we've replaced the mute French devils you know with developers with functioning PR organs, let's see if the playerbase can tell the difference? - The goal posts on the player side are now hidden goty???
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Sep 30, 2015 17:37
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bisonbison posted:I'm just amazed Fumbbl exists. For free. I'm not good at this game, but I like it a lot, and blackbox is great. I don't know enough about the game to know if the clapomb nerfs that are floating out there will ever be widely adopted - or even if they generated the greater parity and variety they were aiming for., but I'm glad the grognards have kept it alive. i have a real love for the game for just being so different compared to standard fare you find, and it disgusts me that cyanide (and gw) is so loving incompetent ocrumsprug posted:Are the included inducements with the new game not fully implemented or something? It's odd to hear people complain about TV differences like there isn't a balancing measure in place. i dont think the inducements were ever really that great an equalizer, especially since players are pretty wise about managing TV bloat to the point where TV alone isn't exactly the best gauge of a team's abilities. i think they're still missing cards and some of the star players, as well. e: i think the disparity is a bit due to the :gw: style of not having a positive relationship with the very concept of balance, like the whole "journeymen all have loner" deal. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 17:51
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RabidWeasel posted:GW is very competent at doubling down on squeezing their obsessive core market who can't stop themselves from buying more and more minis. well up until they blew up one of their two main settings and managed to spook away even the obsessives 
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Sep 30, 2015 17:59
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i dont think theyre mutually incompatible concepts but yet again im pretty much the crazy hobo screaming under the bridge sometimes about things like this, so... its also better than at least some other games from that era; I tried giving that one Warhammer Quest game a try with some buddies online and the whole experience was just so dreadful; there was no real decision making, just an expectation that you're meant to roll your loving dice and craft some magical narrative as the game effectively played itself. i'm convinced that BB's gameplay was just a happy accident, since the swingy riskiness of the game, rather than creating a purely chance based game, instead created a meta relating to risk management and the ability to look forward and knowing when to try to set up a play where you can fail gracefully and knowing when its better to go full glory or death. i don't that sort of gameplay inherently requires unbalanced gameplay: in other words, I agree with a lot of what is said by this dude here. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 18:20
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Sep 30, 2015 18:42
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maybe having your dudes all die boosts your FF which gives you more money to replace the dead since gently caress man what kind of true doom murderhead wouldn't be a fan of a team that provided such an ample amount of bloodshed during a game? i know i fuckin love games with halflings in them for that reason  really its not the problem that conceding rewards the remaining player too much, its more that the rewards for sticking through with a losing game against deathbashers is not high enough that conceding is not the objectively smarter decision. gently caress, just even sticking through with a winning game can make the whole thing very phyrric.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:51
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oh yeah i remember looking up some of the hall of fame characters in fumbbl to see how some of them bit it; my favorite one was this god tier halfling player who died from a gfi gone bad. like, of all the things in the game to do him in, it was the ground.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:58
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I think it's also to discourage intentional concessions to deny enemy teams spp. Only earning 5 because your opponent bailed is kind of painful in a tourney Doesn't really work out in open league tho.
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Oct 1, 2015 21:22
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I think the wizard is generally agreed to be good value.
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Oct 2, 2015 13:33
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It's funny to me since when I played chess, one rule of etiquette that got brought up was knowing when to quit. Except in that case, it was considered rude to keep playing after you knew you were doomed. I distinctly remember reading a justification for that going something like "anyone that would actually enjoy wasting time crushing an opponent who lost dozens of turns ago is probably an rear end in a top hat anyways." (the spp / cas mechanic throws a wrench in things of course)
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Oct 11, 2015 11:09
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Oh yeah I know it's all different due to a lot of stuff, but it's still funny to me how much a case of opposites it is in terms of what is called rude and why. Etiquette aside, it's an indication how weird a game blood bowl is, where getting a free win can piss people off. on an unrelated note, I had a weird as gently caress dream where I was coaching a dude in blood bowl and pushed him to pick a Lamp Skaven team, a special rat team where one of the skaven comes equipped with an electric, vase style, table lamp. I have no idea why. I suspect it may somehow actually be a genius idea.
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Oct 11, 2015 11:48
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im not an expert but it depends on how many pombers they got. if they got only a few, foul them since they're laying down a lot, or just shove a dude against them thats annoying to punch, like someone with wrestle/fend or some shmuck with 7av anyways who you dont care about. or just play elfy and don't let them get you without having to use a blitz (and then combine it so the only guys they can blitz without burning dice are worthless poo poo you dont care about) consider taking fend/wrestle or other skills that reduce their ability to get any free 2dbs aside from the initial LoS murder pit and their blitz. fend also cancels PO so thats helpful. another option which will get you sneered at by people who manage their TV is to just take a bunch of lovely linemen to die at them / foul with. guard is cool too. if you can help it, try to get your opponents to spread out while you play concentrated. this helps if you have the ball and go gently caress off somewhere with it so they might make the mistake of chasing the ball guy with a few dudes, letting you maybe hopefully beat them up with better numbers. desperation moves are fouling with your good players so they can hide in the penalty box rather than risk being eaten alive. be wary of scoring against them outside of turn 8/16, since it gives them a free turn to beat up your LoS some more. stalling a bunch is handy. then again you can just put trash on your los and not care when they eat poo poo and die. still, id recommend avoiding falling behind in numbers too much since the weakness of PO start to get more painful when their team is outnumbered (better opportunities to foul, and they won't contribute defensively) just remember a lot of pomb teams only want to bash instead of giving a poo poo about scoring so other people will have better advice since im a scrub who mostly just beats up AI players for a living because real players are scary
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Oct 14, 2015 01:20
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lol cyanide
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Nov 2, 2015 09:31
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You can make them killers, but they're better, imo, as guard rats since you're probably going to wind up outnumbered on the pitch against anyone even passingly bashy and PO gets to be a bigger liability at that point. Tackle and mighty blow are good anyways, and, dodge, fend, gently caress even grab for shits and giggles, are all good skills on them. Guide I read that I generally agree with is that you should use blitzers more for utility and make your gutter runners more aggressive blitzey types instead, which entails handing them guard on the first double. It's handy, so if you follow with that logic you can end up with a decent amount of guard possessing skaven. http://bbtactics.com/gutter-runners/
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Nov 15, 2015 09:58
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Washout posted:Play some skaven for a while and learn how useless the apo really is. Ignore multiple injuries in case important rat gets hurt. Reroll niggling injury, get death.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:39
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ban the ref
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Nov 21, 2015 02:16
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game etiquette is generally stupid
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Dec 22, 2015 14:32
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it is not hard
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Dec 28, 2015 22:35
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ive said it before, but concessions are a symptom of design problems. trying to ramp up punishments for conceding is wrongthink and will just result in people hating the game. rather, there should be better incentives for not conceding and taking a good look at TV balancing to both reduce the impact of big TV difference via things like improved inducements to put teams on equal footing, and reducing the need to give a poo poo about TV bloat (having injuries reduce TV, making fan factor not worthless, making stuff like cheerleaders / coaches not worthless trap options, etc), and improving the rewards for winning in open league and helping to encourage people to view players as overall more expendable in pursuit of victories so having all your players die to some chaos fucker and will actually be worth it to your standard, nonfunhaver player. also, having your opponent concede should award you no bonuses on open league. conceding loses you all SPP and gold, including SPP you may have already earned. but there's no need to encourage people to adopt a playstyle that is oriented around not actually playing the game in favor of playing murderbowl. there needs to be some other changes to make things work with open league games, really. this will never happen. e: also making teams fun and strong at all TVs in open leagues since that whole "aspect" of "intentional" tiers is kind of extra dumb in this context Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 03:47
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Afraid of Audio posted:if i could spend a bunch of money to get an already leveled player with fresh rolls on each level thatd be cool really some minor tweaks like this + increasing fan factor money gain would go a long way to encouraging playing games
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Jan 9, 2016 01:28
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that is probably a sign of bad tv balance / cash mechanics as well
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Jan 9, 2016 02:18
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i actually went ahead and got it on sale because im a hypocrite idiot won my first game, against a chaos guy, via concession, because he tried to stall and my gutter runner got his ball on a -2b and then he failed a go for it trying to hit him
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Jan 18, 2016 16:11
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Yorkshire Tea posted:First game, I two turn with wood elves elves, kick the ball short, get a blitz and run a catcher underneath where the ball is set to fall. DC immediately. its weird: i had played three games, where my opponent was at least somewhat competent, and had two losses that were pretty embarassing. now im playing and ive run into the fabled big baby quitters. it helps that ive rapidly learned that players are a lot less easy to bully with skaven bashing than the CE AI was second victory: concession by skaven opponent. they got the ball, tried to run down the side i left open in a rat cage. little did he know the Skinners Boxers were well equipped to deal with rat cages.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:37
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not ELO, just Elo. its a name. also, would suck, due to imbalance in teams.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:08
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im on a real hot losing streak and i think im actually bad at this game 
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Feb 4, 2016 00:23
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TV isn't based on skill at all or meant to be anything like Elo ratings, its just the value of your guys. Its also where around 90% of the real game is played (not really) so if you don't want to be miserable you need to make sure you only pick the best skills on dudes that actually get value out of their skills. You can even go so far as to do things like fire linemen on certain teams when they level up too much due to the horribleness that is "TV Bloat". This also applies to things like cheerleaders in that they also bloat TV so never get them, generally. Also in BB2 having over 150k in the bank causes your TV to be inflated as well because gently caress you. I ran afoul of that a bit since the UI is really bad about telling you about it. Do not have more than 150k gold in reserve. Generally being higher TV isn't a bad thing as long as your team doesn't try picking any sort of funhaver skills on your guys or do non-TV-efficient things like having more than 11 players; most inducements are either worth exactly the same as the regular option would be (apoc/rerolls costs the same either way so its a wash) or are strictly worse (freelancer players are just raw recruits with Loner so are just a punishment to having lower TV if you need them, star players are not worth their cost, wizards can be worth it but you need to know what you're doing with it). This does mean that the TV system is pretty bad at its stated goal of providing equal-ish matches because if you're a 1800 TV vs 2200 TV bloatless team then that 600k bucket of inducments is going to do exactly jack poo poo as they crush your poor team into the dirt. Players do not score touchdowns for two reasons; they're stalling or they just want to kill your guys. Most everyone is going to stall at the endzone if you don't add some risk to the equation by pressuring them, since A. being defense means eating 3 blocks at the LoS and thats not really useful, B. scoring too fast gives a chance for you to score before halftime/end of game and tie it up, C. makes you have to take more risks if you do get a kickoff return since you get less time, D. avoids equalizing the pitch if they're outnumbering you since you can get dudes from the reserve or roll to get them unKO'd (and depending on when they score you might miss out on the halftime KO roll / kickoff LoS pummeling), giving them time to beat up whatever dudes on your side they particularly despise and E. if they're chaos they just want to ClawPOMB you and break your toys because griefing. Yes its stupid as poo poo for a game to make "not scoring" a good strategy but thats what you get for having a US football game with no downs system. Teams like Dwarves and Orcs generally want to do a 2-1 grind, which means they take all first half to score, then next half they make you score fast so they can grind down to the endzone and win the game on the last turn. Elfy teams will stall sometimes too because they really don't like getting punched when playing defense and if they're behind in mans then they really don't want to try to play defense much anyways. Chaos, as said, will do it because they want to hit you a lot. The means to unfuck it are to A. pressure them into scoring by either getting someone near the ball carrier or catching something fragile and fouling it every turn they don't score (will not work against the sufficiently cold hearted or skaven teams with the correct mindset), B. bashing the poo poo out of their team as much you can to try to get them to score, or C. hide under your desk and cry a bit until the pain stops. If you're really getting hosed you can try to get your dudes to stand on the edge and be crowdsurfed since thats generally more healthy than getting fouled every turn, or you can concede because gently caress everything. Generally people will try to to stall because giving your opponents less turns to counterscore is a good plan but don't like taking big risks about it so just running a dude withing blocking range will get most of them to react unless they have a cage; even then you can ruin their day if you break the cage open enough with something unpleasant to have next to a ball carrier like a tentacle Minotaur or a shadowing/diving tacke thing, or have something like a gutter runner / wardancer that can run/leap in and do a -3b with strip ball and ruin their attempts to last second score, which can be funny. Being ahead of score compared to your enemies will also tend to make them stall less if they want to win but they can still stall if they're one point behind so they can draw instead of lose. If you're playing vs murder chaos they won't care about score and will just want to make you miserable because griefing. People tend to concede vs murder chaos. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 12:14
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i didn't think they'd put it in yet but rest assured it will also make you miserable like man there's already too many factors that impact matchup balance, half of which are sort of pointless/dumb in an open leauge. i dont think adding another is going to help much in preventing disparities, skillwise or otherwise
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Mar 26, 2016 12:49
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oh, I stand corrected. so that's another way you get kinda hosed if you're low tv against higher tv.
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Mar 27, 2016 15:16
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