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Fojar38 posted:maybe but ukraine is happening now and iraq already happened man that really depends on your definition of "happening" and "happened"
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Sep 23, 2015 23:59
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Fojar38 posted:maybe but ukraine is happening now and iraq already happened history doesnt happen in a vacuum
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Sep 24, 2015 00:01
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I trust Corbyn to annihilate the Russian menace should they actually commit acts that threaten Britain and cannot be ignored. Ukraine is unfortunately ignorable.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:01
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its foolish to judge each and every geopolitical situation as if they happen on separate planets and the players involved are different each time, tabula rasa
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Sep 24, 2015 00:02
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TEAYCHES posted:history doesnt happen in a vacuum when the question of "which is more useful to get mad about" is given to me i take bad things that are happening now that can still potentially be altered over things that have happened in the past that no amount of righteous rage in the world will change while i can sympathize with this: quote:you can get mad at both iraq and ukraine, but as an american its more important to hold my own government to account. im more responsible for what my own nation does and condemning china or russia is hypocritical when we support regimes just as bad or worse with free money and weapons i am not american or russian and am from a country that, while western and part of nato, did not participate in the iraq war so that kind of accountability doesnt apply to me directly quote:the point is that none of this condemnation is in good faith, we use human rights as a diplomatic weapon. we apply it to the people we dont like and ignore it when its in our interest to ignore it. its pure cynicism and thats why i dont take it seriously when john kerry cries about russia because its not like he believes in the words coming out of his own mouth after he gets back from selling apache helicopters to the egyptian military dictatorship i agree with this, but if you are going to take the "everyone is bad" standpoint then the question of "which is less bad" becomes pertinent and that is usually the usa in these sorts of great power tussles like the usa did a bunch of bad poo poo in the cold war but i would still rather live in a usa dominated world than a ussr dominated one
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Sep 24, 2015 00:07
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Nonsense posted:I trust Corbyn to annihilate the Russian menace should they actually commit acts that threaten Britain and cannot be ignored. Ukraine is unfortunately ignorable. Britain, if faced with an actual military threat, would proceed to poo poo the bed with the lights on no matter who's in charge. The southeast coast locked up for weeks because a few hundred refugees were trying to get into the place. Their only hope against a russian invasion would be the russians inevitably bankrupting themselves and running out of food trying to push through the donbass region.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:08
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Gilganixon posted:Britain, if faced with an actual military threat, would proceed to poo poo the bed with the lights on no matter who's in charge. The southeast coast locked up for weeks because a few hundred refugees were trying to get into the place. Their only hope against a russian invasion would be the russians inevitably bankrupting themselves and running out of food trying to push through the donbass region. putin orders an invasion of poland usa launches a massive strike against them from its german air bases russian tanks break down halfway through belarus and two thirds desert american f-35 squadrons catch fire and crash over saxony
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Sep 24, 2015 00:10
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Fojar38 posted:"we should find common ground with russia/china and focus on that" What is the alternative to this?
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Sep 24, 2015 00:11
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Fojar38 posted:when the question of "which is more useful to get mad about" is given to me i take bad things that are happening now that can still potentially be altered over things that have happened in the past that no amount of righteous rage in the world will change im not gonna get into a d&d style point by point refutation because lol but ill just end with saying that american intervention in the middle east is ongoing and destabilizing, lesser of two evils geopolitics kills a lot of people and i dont accept that as a sustainable thing or worthy of defending, and yea if you arent an american i guess enjoy pax americana if you are in a region not adversely affected by our foreign policy, at least until it comes crashing down in waves of migrant crises and mass violence
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Sep 24, 2015 00:13
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McDowell posted:What is the alternative to this? the literal polar opposite would be containment i dont advocate this in its cold war form because neither russia nor china are sufficiently powerful that they need to be contained but you dont need to contain them to impose costs for sabre-rattling and human rights abuses this would mean not doing what osbourne is doing now though
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Sep 24, 2015 00:16
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boycott american companies until the united states government stops its global communications collection regime
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Sep 24, 2015 00:22
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TEAYCHES posted:boycott american companies until the united states government stops its global communications collection regime im using a brazilian cpu in my posting rig ama
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Sep 24, 2015 00:22
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Personally I feel that trade and engagement is the first step in liberalising and 'democratising' a county. Public hand-wringing about human rights by politicians is not going to change anything and likely makes other countries just dig their heels in.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:25
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Jim Flatline posted:Personally I feel that trade and engagement is the first step in liberalising and 'democratising' a county. Public hand-wringing about human rights by politicians is not going to change anything and likely makes other countries just dig their heels in. its not quite that simple because china has pretty much mastered capitalism without liberalizing internally whatsoever. that said, historically the usual way social liberalization and 'democratization' develops is through long periods of peace and prosperity which are then punctuated by short revolutionary periods, sometimes violent chinas oncoming environmental collapse might throw a wrench in that tho, we have variables which didnt exist a century ago
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Sep 24, 2015 00:30
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Gilganixon posted:Britain, if faced with an actual military threat, would proceed to poo poo the bed with the lights on no matter who's in charge. The southeast coast locked up for weeks because a few hundred refugees were trying to get into the place. Their only hope against a russian invasion would be the russians inevitably bankrupting themselves and running out of food trying to push through the donbass region. Our generals were harsh and said British military was in bad condition in Afghanistan/Iraq and not a worthy ally to call in the future. 
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Sep 24, 2015 00:32
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Fojar38 posted:a lot of it is cold war stuff though actually? unless we are being generous with the words "invasion" and "coup" since 1990: invasions: panama, iraq, haiti, somalia, bosnia, serbia, afghanistan, iraq bombings: iraq 1990-present, bosnia, somalia, afghanistan 1998-present, sudan, serbia, yemen, phillipines, pakistan, libya, syria. sabotage and assassination in iran. coups: haiti, venezuela, egypt
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Sep 24, 2015 00:35
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you forgot honduras
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Sep 24, 2015 00:36
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imo its important to consider a nations track record when judging what they are likely to do in the future and their actual motivations behind current actions
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Sep 24, 2015 00:37
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TEAYCHES posted:its not quite that simple because china has pretty much mastered capitalism without liberalizing internally whatsoever. that said, historically the usual way social liberalization and 'democratization' develops is through long periods of peace and prosperity which are then punctuated by short revolutionary periods, sometimes violent They've certainly liberalised economically but they also dismantled their welfare system. If you use the gini coefficent as a metric for inequality they've improved in that regard. I'm not very familar with social issues in China but I still maintain that publically snubbing them as some suggest due to their human rights record will not help matters.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:39
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guys this is the corbyn/kill all tories thread not the china/kill all russians thread
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Sep 24, 2015 00:54
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Tezzor posted:since 1990: a lot of those are pretty spurious and imply a very generous interpretation of the word "invasion" a bunch of them also had unsc authorization as well
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Sep 24, 2015 00:55
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Gilganixon posted:guys this is the corbyn/kill all tories thread not the china/kill all russians thread yeah but i dont want to post with the cretins in d&d
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Sep 24, 2015 00:56
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D&D aka Dumb and dumber.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:59
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Gilganixon posted:guys this is the corbyn/kill all tories thread not the china/kill all russians thread War is bad. I want Bernie to nationalize ATT.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:02
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putin doing essentially nothing in ukraine is the same as literally invading a country killing hundreds of thousands of people and summarily executing their president in the street the opinion of actual people in this thread
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Sep 24, 2015 06:04
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RideTheSpiral posted:putin doing essentially nothing in ukraine is the same as literally invading a country killing hundreds of thousands of people and summarily executing their president in the street a lot of your posts are starting to make sense
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Sep 24, 2015 06:07
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RideTheSpiral posted:putin doing essentially nothing in ukraine is the same as literally invading a country killing hundreds of thousands of people and summarily executing their president in the street which incidence of invading a country and executing their president are you referring to theres a few of those
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Sep 24, 2015 06:15
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the iraq war was dumb as poo poo and shouldnt have happened but lol @ "saddam hussein, legitimate president of iraq"
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Sep 24, 2015 06:38
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i mean, he was, insofar as half of world leaders on this gay planet are legitimate
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Sep 24, 2015 06:39
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national sovereignty doesnt have an exclusion clause for "led by a guy who is an authoritarian piece of poo poo" otherwise most nations wouldnt have sovereignty
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Sep 24, 2015 06:40
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sure i just think that saddam being iced was the one good thing to come out of the turd swamp that was the iraq war and presenting that on a list of grievances against the us pertaining to the war veers a little too close to "plucky little dictator" territory that loads of leftists seem to be seduced by
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Sep 24, 2015 06:43
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i hope a country invades the United states, kills their civilians in their walmarts and murders their president in the street that would be good to me
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Sep 24, 2015 06:44
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RideTheSpiral posted:i hope a country invades the United states, kills their civilians in their walmarts and murders their president in the street russia would collapse 5 minutes after steam went offline
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Sep 24, 2015 06:50
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imo during the arab spring saddam would have gotten toppled by the shiite majority anyway and have gotten iced without our help
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Sep 24, 2015 06:51
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TEAYCHES posted:imo during the arab spring saddam would have gotten toppled by the shiite majority anyway and have gotten iced without our help
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Sep 24, 2015 07:01
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TEAYCHES posted:its not quite that simple because china has pretty much mastered capitalism without liberalizing internally whatsoever. that said, historically the usual way social liberalization and 'democratization' develops is through long periods of peace and prosperity which are then punctuated by short revolutionary periods, sometimes violent China has liberalised internally a lot. Just because they haven't hop, skipped and jumped into a social-liberal paradise doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements over the last 50 years. Like, they've gone from the Cultural Revolution to a halfway laissez-faire bureaucracy. Even if their treatment of dissent is seen as appalling by us, it has become far, far more lax in the last 25 years. You can almost live a recognisable life in China now (as a foreigner!) so long as you don't start bad mouthing the party. These days I wouldn't be surprised if organising political protests against the UK/US gov't doesn't put you on a watch list as well, so at least they aren't going backwards.
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Sep 24, 2015 12:09
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TEAYCHES posted:imo during the arab spring saddam would have gotten toppled by the shiite majority anyway and have gotten iced without our help Would the Arab Spring have been possible without the multibillion dollar Keynesian program of forever war that got America out of the 2000 recession?
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Sep 24, 2015 12:26
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