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SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
ROFLMFAO
20,000 new members in 24 hrs since Labour party elected Corbyn
http://labourlist.org/2015/05/labour-membership-rises-by-20000-since-election-day/

Jeremy Corbyn holds private meetings to select his shadow cabinet while deputy leader Tom Watson says he cannot agree with Labour leader on leaving Nato or scrapping Trident

• David Cameron: Corbyn is a threat to national security
• Rosie Winterton stays on as chief whip as Corbyn appoints top team
• SNP: We could form "alliance" with Corbyn
• Labour membership soars by 15,500 in just 24 hours
• Tom Watson: I'll change Corbyn's mind on Nato and Trident
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11861535/jeremy-corbyn-picks-labour-shadow-cabinet-live.html

So new labour = old labour = loving wid the neocons.

And welcome back socialist union-supporting red labour. If they join forces with the SNP over many issues the Corporotocracy is going to have a very hard time getting poo poo done in the next 4 yrs lol

I'll leave the pics of him with unfashionable clothes for some other goon to post

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SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
ROFLMFAO

Kumo posted:

Limey Bernie Sanders is scaring the British Establishment politicians

berkshire fox hunt

Except he's now in charge of the Labour party

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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What he stands for

On the economy Corbyn is opposed to austerity and plans to bring down the deficit by growing the economy and taxing the wealthy instead.

He intends to introduce a “people’s quantitative easing”, which would allow the Bank of England to print money to invest in large-scale housing, energy, transport and digital projects, partly through a national investment bank.

Corbyn says he will fund this by reducing the “tax gap” and ending corporate tax reliefs.

On tax Corbyn says there is £20bn in tax debt uncollected by HMRC every year and another £20bn in tax avoidance and a further £80bn in tax evasion that needs to be addressed.

On education Corbyn has proposed a National Education Service, which he says would be “every bit as vital and as free at the point of use as our NHS”. The service would begin with universal childcare, give more power to local authorities, rethink the role of free schools and academies, introduce a minimum wage for apprentices and put more money into adult learning.

Corbyn has said he will also look at abolishing the charitable status of private schools but admitted it would be “very difficult to do”.

He wants to scrap tuition fees and restore student maintenance grants. This will be funded by increasing national insurance on those earning more than £50,000 a year and increasing corporation tax by 2.5%, or by slowing the pace of deficit reduction.

He has apologised to students who have had to pay fees because of Labour.

I want to apologise on behalf of the Labour party to the last generation of students for the imposition of fees, top-up fees and the replacement of grants with loans by previous Labour governments. I opposed those changes at the time – as did many others – and now we have an opportunity to change course.

On housing Corbyn would introduce rent controls in expensive places like central London so that families on welfare are not pushed out of the area, which he says is an example of “social cleansing”. He will also suspend council right-to-buy schemes in such areas and will lift borrowing restrictions on councils so that they can build more than half of the 250,000 new homes he says are needed each year.

Corbyn has proposed the idea of linking private rents to local average earnings and introducing a right to buy for private tenants of large-scale landlords, a scheme that would be funded by withdrawing some of the £14bn of tax allowances given to buy-to-let landlords.

On immigration Corbyn has consistently argued that immigration is not a drain on the economy and has campaigned on behalf of asylum seekers, most recently over the need to rescue Mediterranean refugees. He has said the debate on immigration has been “poisoned” and that migration is a global phenomenon that has been going on for hundreds of years.

On welfare Corbyn was one of the 48 Labour rebels who defied the party whip and voted against the government’s welfare reform bill. He said:

We are one of the richest countries in the world and there is absolutely no reason why anyone should have to live in poverty.

On defence

Corbyn intends to withdraw from Nato and opposes the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent.

He is in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament and has called for a “radically different international policy” based on “political and not military solutions”.

He has indicated that he would block any attempt by David Cameron to launch airstrikes in Syria, stating that bombing the country will “kill many people” and may not defeat Isis. Cutting off the supply of money and arms to Isis from “some of our supposed allies in the region” would be more effective, he added.

On public ownership Corbyn plans to renationalise the energy companies to bring energy prices back down. He said privatisation of the sector has created a “false market” which allows for a great deal of money to be made by gas and electricity companies at the expense of everyone else.

Corbyn also plans to renationalise the railways, which he says will allow the public to “get the benefit” of the current investment in infrastructure. He said:

I believe in public ownership, but I have never favoured the remote nationalised model of the postwar era. Like a majority of the population and a majority of even Tory voters, I want the railways back in public ownership. But public control should mean just that: so we should have passengers, rail workers and government too, cooperatively running the railways ... in our interests and not for private profit.

On Europe Corbyn has indicated that he is likely to support the campaign to stay in the European Union, but has refused to rule out campaigning for a no vote because:

Cameron quite clearly follows an agenda which is about trading away workers’ rights ... environment protection ... much of what is in the social chapter.

He maintains that Britain should play a crucial role in Europe by making demands on issues such as workers’ rights, the environment, tax and wage protection “rather than saying blanketly we’re going to support whatever Cameron comes out with whenever he finally decides to hold this referendum”.

When pressed, Corbyn has said his preferred position is to stay in a reformed EU. But he has also cited the union’s treatment of Greece as a justification for potential exit. He said:

Look at it another way: if we allow unaccountable forces to destroy an economy like Greece, when all that bailout money isn’t going to the Greek people, it’s going to carious banks all across Europe, then I think we need to think very, very carefully about what role [the EU] are playing and what role we are playing in that.

On healthcare Corbyn has promised a “fully funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health”. His website states that the “principle of universal healthcare which is free at the point of use is something that we all deserve and should be absolutely protected.”

Corbyn has also pledged to tackle the “mental health crisis” and improve mental health coverage in the country. He will grow rather than cut mental health budgets and ensure mental health education is taught in schools.

On the monarchy Though Corbyn is a republican, he has said abolishing the monarchy is “not the fight I’m going to fight” due to huge public support for the royal family.

On the arts Corbyn has said he will create a cabinet committee for the arts and creative industries to bring ministers from across the departments together, making policy more effective.

On gender equality Advertisement

Corbyn has pledged to do more to address discrimination in the workplace, at home and on the streets. He has called for an end to the cuts to public services and welfare that drive women and families into poverty, including the cuts to women’s refuges and services for domestic violence.

He also wants all companies to publish details of their equal pay arrangements, intends his cabinet to be made up of 50% women and wants to “work towards” 50% of all Labour MPs being women.

Corbyn has floated the idea of reintroducing women-only carriages on trains to cut sexual assault cases. He says this is not his preferred choice but he will consult women on the proposal after being contacted by women lobbyists.

On foreign policy Corbyn was opposed to the Iraq war and has suggested that Tony Blair should stand trial as a war criminal over it.

Corbyn has hinted that Britain should seek greater diplomatic relations with Russia. He previously described the Kremlin’s state propaganda channel Russia Today as “more objective on Libya than most” and believes that the Ukraine crisis was caused by the west and Nato.

Russia has gone way beyond its legal powers to use bases in the Crimea. Sending unidentified forces into another country is clearly a violation of that country’s sovereignty [...] Still, the hypocrisy of the west remains unbelievable,” he said. “Nato has sought to expand since the end of the cold war. It has increased its military capability and expenditure. It operates way beyond its original 1948 area and its attempt to encircle Russia is one of the big threats of our time.

Corbyn has also said he supports Israel’s right to exist but opposes what he describes as the country’s “occupation policies”. He has reportedly attended an event in the past hosted by a Holocaust denier and has been criticised for describing Hamas and Hezbollah as friends, which he says was a throwaway word he used to create an amicable atmosphere during discussions. “You don’t make peace unless you talk to everybody,” he said.

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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The Landstander posted:

So how is Corbyn perceived in the UK generally? Obviously a legitimate grassroots movement got him in and after Milliband's complete nothing burger on austerity he's kind of a logical step, and obviously David Cameron and Tony Blair think he'll destroy Labour/the country (don't care), but from all of this I've yet to get a sense of how popular he is with general public (like a favorability rating, or something).

In the run-up weeks 100,000 people joined the Labour party (ie payed membership) just so they could elect Corbyn

In the 24 hrs since he was voted in, 20,000 people have joined as well.

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Blair : oh god this guy wants to set us back 35 years in progress

*supports new cold war with russia

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Constant Hamprince posted:

Literally everybody in the UK who didn't vote for him hates him, he won't make it to 2020.

36% didn't vote in the general election, mainly bc there was no party worth voting for. Now that displaced 36% jave someone interesting to vote for

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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So Camcunt is turning more and more into a totalitarian dictator backed by the US and the opposition party are treacherous commie bastards. Politics in the UK is fun again :cheers:

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Chucat posted:

Uh this is from May and is about the general election.

http://labourlist.org/2015/09/14500-people-sign-up-as-labour-party-members-following-jeremy-corbyns-election-as-leader/

That's the one you want to link.

My bad.

I was considering the green party as they were the new left as far as options went in the GE but now Corbyn turned up outta the blue I think there's a chance of fighting the corporatocracy

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11862413/Union-bosses-threaten-to-use-Jeremy-Corbyns-victory-to-cripple-UK.html

There is a big difference between unionising nationalising red labour and sjw liberal neocon-lite guardian

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Rob Williams, of the National Shop Stewards Network, said his members would “take down” Mr Cameron. He said: “The victory yesterday by Jeremy Corbyn has changed everything. The vote we saw yesterday was a political revolution. We must build a mass movement against austerity and the anti-union laws.

“The message must be simple – 'Cameron: we are going to take you down. Your anti-union Bill and your cuts, you’re going down because we are mobilising against you’.

“If this goes into law, we want mass coordinated strike action.”

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Ok now I'm confused ... our most right wing Dail Mail puts out the most pro-Corbyn piece so far

And finally... why Jeremy Corbyn may be the best thing since Clement Attlee, by Gordon Brown's former spin chief DAMIAN MCBRIDE

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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The odds at the bookies for Corbyn winning were 200-1 at the start of the labour contest.

And he won.

If anyone thinks a telegraph poll shows what the people want they have a weird idea on where the pulse of the proletariat/precariat shows itself.
I just joined the Labour party for £2 a month, not a millenial and the 36% who didn't vote have been dissillusioned with uk politics for years.

Grass Roots Labour in uk is just one in many leftist parties gaining voices and power across europe. People who say Corbyn couldn'tcwin an election are the same sorts who agreed he had 200-1 (gently caress all) chance of becoming party leader.

Lol if you think this won't change uk politics

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

Lol that all these Corbyn supporters are basically relying on millennials to win the next election.

Lol that you joined Labour party 10 years ago when Blair was in power and it was full of neo-liberals.

Now there are real reds joining the neo-libtards can just all gently caress off back to the rocks they crawled out from. Go suck Tony's cock if it'll make you both feel better about it ya whining lil human being

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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les fleurs du mall posted:

dont join the actual party are you loving retarded

all you're doing is giving the labour party loads and loads of loving funds so that when they inevitably destroy corbyn you'll be giving new-Blair his / her best shot at loving us all all over again.

We get to vote on policies and have a voice

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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les fleurs du mall posted:

he wont even be leader of the labour party at the end of 2015 he's an old man and the media are going to physically and emotionally exhaust him and he'll quit

I'm going to send him special mushroom cookies to help him get thru the hard times.

But he hangs out with Rastas at Notting Hill carnival so I reckon he knows how to shove it up da babylon


Taken by a fb friend

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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The tories won second reading of the Trade Union Bill which would cripple the power of unions in the uk for years to come.
But the battle isn't over yet and Corbyn is a man of the people so fingers crossed it'll get nay'ed the gently caress outta town.

https://www.tuc.org.uk/union-issues/trade-union-bill/campaign-against-trade-union-bill-far-over-says-tuc

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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"scriptonite daily" posted:

A quick scan of social media and mainstream news sources today should alert you to the fact that the war against Jeremy Corbyn and his hew front bench has already begun. This is because the permanent political class are freaking out over Corbyn’s win and how it imperils their grip on power. Here is how.

Over with the Labour establishment, their reaction was best captured by the purge, scaremongering and refusal to work with a Corbyn front bench.

The reason Labour had a new leadership election process this time round, was the result of the parliamentary Labour Party and the NEC long term efforts to diminish the power of Trade Unions. By widening the vote to Labour voters, and quieting the voice of Trade Unions, the Blairite factions of the party gambled on those new voters being to the right of the Unions.

But they got a shock. It turned out that many were actually well to the left, and ready to take a chance on a social democrat like Corbyn. So, the Party responded to those new supporters as ‘infiltrators’.

This was a bizarre move, because if Labour don’t win back these voters, they are sunk in 2020. Labour need to win an extra 106 seats next election to gain a majority, an almost impossible task. But that almost impossible task becomes totally impossible without a mass, popular movement to reengage the public. Just 24% of people voted Conservative in the last election, 76% didn’t. The largest gains went to socially democratic populists the SNP, who killed Labour in Scotland. The biggest losers were the Liberal Democrats, the only ‘centrist’ party in town.

So why would the Parliamentary Labour Party NOT want to harness the power of a populist, social democratic movement? Especially when it is the only chance they have of regaining office in 2020.

It is becoming ever more clear that the Labour Party in Westminster has become a part of a permanent political class alongside their Tory and Liberal Democrat counterparts. Disengagement and voter apathy means a fairly stable job, a few seats lost and won either way each election and no big surprises. The chance to earn a great wage and pass policies which guarantee lucrative consultancy/director roles after politics. All done with the passive acceptance of a disaffected electorate, half of whom don’t even bother to vote anymore. To this permanent political class, a popular movement based on social democratic values is about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

This is why Harriet Harman planned to cull over 100,000so-called ‘infiltrators’ from the vote. This is why self-appointed voice-of-the-left Polly Toynbee, the Guardian editorial team, and most of the press (right and liberal) were busily character assassinating Corbyn and anyone who would give him their vote.

But despite all efforts, Corbyn won with a greater landslide in 2015, than Blair did in 1994. The ‘unelectable’ Corbyn galvanized a thumping majority against a hostile media, commentariat and even parliamentary party.

How did the conservative permanent political class respond? They freaked out. This freak out is best summed up by this near-hysterical tweet by Prime Minister David Cameron.

How did the public respond to the Corbyn win?

Over 15,000 people joined the Labour Party within 24 hours, and they’re still joining. This is significant. Back in 2011, political party membership in the UK was at an all time low; just 0.8% of eligible adults in the UK were members of political parties, versus 3.8% in 1983. But while general membership was in decline, membership of ‘other’ parties was on a steep rise. This was a signpost that perhaps the problem was not the apathy of the public to politics, but the apathy of the political class to the aspirations and values of the public.

But since the No Vote in Scotland, the rise of the SNP and Greens north of the border, and the victory of Corbyn – large sections of the public are reengaging with the political system again in ways not witnessed for decades.

Between 2002 and 2013, the SNP membership grew to just over 20,000. In the two year since, it rocketed to well over 100,000.

With it’s freshly-arrived members, the Labour Party now has around 290,000 members – more than the Conservatives (134,000), Liberal Democrats (61,000) and Green’s (60,000) combined.

Furthermore, it appears that Jeremy Corbyn and his front bench plan to galvanize the power of this membership to bring democracy into policy making. In short, it looks like Labour members will be supporting policy development in a way unheard of by mainstream parties before now. This would remove the power of the front bench and parliamentary party to act against the will of the membership – this should empower Corbyn’s team to drive through the radical social democratic policies he has in mind.

In short, there is now a distinct possibility not only that a truly progressive, social democrat Labour Party could win in 2020, but worse, that they could topple an unpopular Tory government even before then. An unconstrained Labour Party with Corbyn at its head, and John McDonnell as shadow Chancellor could deliver the sort of coordinated opposition, uniting with workers and their unions, disenfranchised groups and their campaign groups – to start landing big punches now. The sorts of actions that Blue Labour would never take, could now be back on the table. There could be general strikes, there could be mass rallies utilising the full power of these groups, there could be the kind of concerted, unrelenting uproar that tore the Tory Party apart in the early 1990’s.

The permanent political class is freaking out because the only thing that can beat out Project Fear, is Project Hope. A Tory-lite Labour opposition was never going to win in 2020, but an energetic and awakened Labour movement can. Even worse, if they do win, there is a very real chance that the domestic and foreign policy of Britain could change in a truly radical way. We could be a few years away from the most progressive government since Clement Attlee’s post-WWII government delivered the NHS, a national education system, nationalised transport and energy, and rolled out the biggest social housing programme in our history. This is an electoral choice that the UK hasn’t had the opportunity to make in decades.

The permanent political class is facing the most real and present threat to their power since 1979. They are going to throw every weapon in their armory at ensuring that doesn’t happen. But none of those weapons is more powerful than a tight-knit, grass roots movement with its eye on shared vision of an inspiring future.



SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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TUC Gen Secretary's speech today at the conference

https://www.tuc.org.uk/about-tuc/congress/congress-2015/tuc-general-secretary-frances-o%E2%80%99grady%E2%80%99s-address-congress-2015

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

lol you actually compared Tony Blair to Hitler.

Also, it's not a case of going "Awww poo poo man, let's just ignore the colossal gently caress up that was Iraq and say Tony Blair was great" it's about saying "Hey, why don't we do all these things again, but this time without slaughtering tons of people in a desert for oil money?".



No he wouldn't stop being dumb. Even if he knew there were no weapons of mass destruction and he lied to the British people (which would be awful) that's still not a war crime.

If you have actual proof that Tony Blair actually committed a real war crime then I suggest you forward it on to the ICC pronto. Otherwise stop throwing around dumb rhetoric which undermines the issue that the Iraq war was a colossal failure. Not because it was an illegal war (like Kosovo was, but no one ever moans about preventing genocide via an illegal war) but because there was no real plan, it took resources away from Afghanistan which still wasn't transitioned to a peaceful democracy and then we pulled out and wiped our cock on their curtains on our way out. Oh and the US outsourced a poo poo ton of their operations to PMCs which brought a ton of problems.

Even if the UN Security Council had backed the war making it legal, these things would have happened anyway, and they are the reasons Iraq is a total gently caress up, not because Blair lied to Parliament who then voted on it. Even if it turns out Blair did lie to Parliament there's not much you can do as he's protected by Parliamentary privilege which is necessary for a working democracy.



lol what?

No one guessed that a terrorist organisation would form and become strong enough to effectively seize control of territory from a war torn Syria that was in the middle of a civil war funded on one side by the US and the other side by the Russians and then go on to capture $5m a day's worth of oil supplies to finance themselves into an effective army that declares it's own Islamic caliphate. Sure people said there was a risk of a power vacuum, but not on this scale.

Blair blair blair

Syria is a legacy of the US backed Arab Spring movement that took place in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya .... and it has been allowed to grow. Bc the US and UK and Israel need reasons to slowly take over the middle east.

But Russia has royally hosed up those plans by reinforcing his ally, Assad the Innocent

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

Don't start throwing around terms like "war of aggression" then going over the top when someone points out legally it may not be.

Either learn what it loving means or stop regurgitating poo poo you read on the internet. The Iraq war was loving awful for so many reasons, like I clearly stated a few posts ago, but it's not loving awful because it is or is not a war of aggression, it's awful because of what was done. Blair wouldn't swing in an international trial at all, which is why none of them have issued warrants for his arrest. Between the UN Security Council resolutions and the fact that the US didn't invade Iraq to claim it as territory (one of the key parts of claiming a war is a war of aggression) means it is legally not necessarily a war of aggression.

If you're too loving dumb to understand someone can have a nuanced opinion such as "The Iraq war may not have been illegal, but it was still loving poo poo" then I really don't know what to say.

Please ... say nothing. Nothing at all

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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www posted:

:siren: Jemery Corbyn caught not singing God Save the Queen :siren:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

But he does sing tje Sex Pistols version

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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@TEAYCHES

You're not wasting your time there are plenty of lurkers who only think like him bc they don't know the full facts and you ate teayching them

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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To steer the thread back to Corbyn and his "electability" ... New poll labour closes gap with tories by 3 points

Labour has slightly narrowed the gap between its poll rating and that of the Conservatives, a new poll shows.

The ICM survey for the Guardiannewspaper shows a six-point lead for the Tories, down from nine points in the previous survey conducted last month.

The opposition party’s rating increased by one per cent, with the Conservatives themselves down two per cent

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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www posted:

now they just need that 5% to move from SNP to labour and they will be within 1%. no problem

That should be easy. SNP was popular bc Silliband was/is a wet sad unlikeable toady

Btw lol @ this :

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Ambrose Burnside posted:

you seem to be operating from the first principle that the general population is actively engaged in and fully knowledgeable about the democratic process/politics in a genuine way and not only, at absolute best, with mostly irrelevant wedge issues condensed to convenient narratives and digestible soundbites that aren't meaningfully representative of "anything at all" beyond functioning as a good distraction

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

You might be, but if those who voted for Corbyn are basically ditching a lot of the principles that made New Labour successful, which is what the party has now done.

You can't both be proud of what was achieved 97-13 (bad stuff aside) and also be a hard left supporter as a lot of policy decisions are incompatible.

I prefer what Labour did '23 - '97

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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And Abbott has been ousted by his own party in favour of Turnbull ... seems right wingers are getting told to gently caress off everywhere

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

So yeah, you prefer mainly being not elected.

I prefer the national health sevice, the welfare system and did quite like nationalised rail, telecom, water, electricity and gas, post office and all the other things they acheived in their few reigns of niceness

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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12 pm today Prime Minister's Question time on BBC Parliament channel first Corbyn appearance can't wait

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ckjck

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Corbyn has already changed the entire methodology of PMQT ... 40,000 people sent questions ... and decorum has returned to what was, let's face it a circus.
So even though not much happened re: the questions themselves, Corbyn has changed the structure of parliamentary dialogue ... in the space of 10 minutes.

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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By playing the semantic game the govt can keep the discussion going on their terms. By calling the IRA terrorists they can then say that everything the British Army and MI5 did was justified and the "terrorists" unjustified.
By sympathising at least with the cause of the IRA ... to fight British oppression ... is to open up the possibility that the British govt hasn't been the good guy in this

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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People did not vote for Mrs Thatcher back in 1979 because they had suddenly been convinced of the merits of free markets, monetarism and neo-liberal economic policies.

They voted for her because they were fed up with strikes and being pushed around by union bosses who behaved as if the entire economic system should be run for their benefit and wanted something different.

People did not vote for new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn at the weekend because they suddenly turned socialist.

They voted again because they are fed up with austerity and the way bankers and big business bosses give the impression that the entire economic system exists for their benefit.

Over-powerful union bosses then and over-rewarded business leaders today are the two sides of the same coin.

Comment since his elevation has usually described Corbyn’s economic ideas as sad, bad or mad, but it is worth trying to separate what he is trying to achieve from the way he has suggested it might be done.

Jeremy Corbyn’s EU stance ‘a threat’, say Britain's bosses

Most people in this country agree that housing, transport, education and broadband are all inadequate and far behind where they need to be to meet the needs of a modern economy.

Unlike the Government, which thinks only the private sector can sort these problems out, Corbyn suggests that Government should use its economic clout to make things happen. Is that so bad?

Ironically, most business leaders would agree, up to a point.

Government should be taking advantage of today’s low interest rates to borrow money to invest in infrastructure.

Not to do so is to squander a once in a generation opportunity to rebuild this country.

Corbyn’s People’s QE is his way of paying the bill and it has attracted a lot of ridicule — notwithstanding the irony that printing money to get things moving is an idea endorsed not only by Milton Friedman — the Right-wing intellectual father of monetarism — but also by former Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, who said that when all else failed, government could get the economy moving by dropping money from helicopters.

The point is that getting the Bank of England to print money to buy bonds issued by housing associations, health trusts, or an infrastructure bank is a perfectly credible and workable idea........
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-corbynomics-are-not-as-crazy-as-critics-suggest-a2948081.html

So now I finally understand People's QE. Sounds good to me

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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part of jon snow channel 4 corbyn interview from this evening

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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spud posted:

Only for the last 15 years or so. Unfortunately Corbyn is the right man in the wrong party.

So you think the ex-protestor left wing socialist vegetarian would be better as a Tory? Interesting take on it

What I am seeing from the press is about 60% hate for Corbyn, 30% biased trying to look balanced articles and 10% are completely behind him.

But surprisingly some of the pro-Corbyn pieces are coming from rw papers. Daily Mail and The New Statesman and The Standard, George Monbiot and Michael Meacher ... reds are coming outta the woodwork in the media and discerning readers ignore the hyperbole and notice the supportive advice the authors are giving him.

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Hey Kitchner someone wrote an open letter to all the Blairite MPs

Dear Blairite MP,

I’m writing on behalf of hundreds of thousands of Labour party members; some new, and some, like me, who have been loyal party members throughout our adult lives. I’m not writing to any one of you in particular. The ones I’m addressing will know who they are.

It’s time to talk about us.

Come on now. We all know this was never much of a relationship. We never really liked you, and you certainly never liked us.

The whole New Labour project was based on effectively creating a new party, which as far as possible just ignored the old structures of branch meetings and conference resolutions. The leadership spoke to the membership of this new partly directly, via a sympathetic media, while minimising opportunities for members to talk to each other. Key decisions like the revision of Clause 4 and the election of a leader were made via postal ballots, with almost no deliberative discussion or campaigning. A plebiscitary model replaced the old, complex party democracy. Members were a passive body who were expected to ratify leadership decisions, make regular contributions, perhaps help to get the vote out at elections, and otherwise remain silent. ‘Activist’ was a term of abuse.

In this new party, the career success of an MP depended almost entirely on how well they could perform a very particular role, always staying ruthlessly on-message, embodying in dress, posture and vocal manner a kind of vaguely classless aspirational culture largely modelled on the behaviour of upper-middle management in the City, or the more conservative media and PR companies. Tony Blair was the template and Peter Mandelson the ultimate arbiter of success: the chief casting-director of the permanent performance which was New Labour.

You were great at playing this role. Unfortunately, that part has been written out of the script now. So why not move on, eh?

Some of you, we know, really do remain committed to a particular moral vision of meritocratic free-market capitalism, in which social inequality is tolerated - even encouraged - but equality of opportunity is enabled; provided that the only opportunities anyone asks for are those offered by the corporate financial and media sectors (or perhaps, at a stretch, the less political sections of the voluntary sector). Those of you who really do adhere to that as a moral vision, however limited, should of course stay and fight for what you believe in. So should those members of other tendencies who have genuinely-held beliefs which don’t happen to coincide fully with those of the new leadership. 

But many of you don’t. Instead you simply accept, as you always have done, that there is nothing worth knowing or caring about beyond the world of the corporate elite, its assumptions and its interests, and you have yourselves sought a route to prosperity and advancement in the service of that elite: a route which happens to have taken the form of becoming a Labour MP.

The thing is - and we know this is hard for you to take on at first - that route is closed for now, and doesn’t look likely to open up again any time soon. The members have returned en masse, and we’re not getting back in our boxes any times soon, no matter what happens to Jeremy Corbyn and his leadership. Being a Labour MP just isn’t going to be a good way to serve, and then join, the global elite class any more.

Because - let’s be honest - if you really ask yourself, isn’t it true that that’s what you were really hoping for out of this job? It’s nothing to be ashamed of. You wanted a way into the upper reaches of the professional classes, and becoming an MP is still frankly more interesting and a bit more glamorous than just working your way up through the City or the commercial media. It’s a career path that even carries with it a decent enough chance of following Blair and others to the heights of the global, billionaire-befriending, super-elite; and if not that, then at least to some Bilderberg meetings, or Davos. Nobody can blame you. You’ve done nothing illegal. Mostly. 

But it’s not going to be like that any more. You’re going to be under increasing pressure from a membership whose values and priorities you have never shared, and a corporate class which will become increasingly irritated by your inability to pacify that membership. There is no mechanism for you just to get rid of Corbyn, however badly he may perform, and even if he goes, the membership are just going to be looking for a younger and more dynamic model of basically the same thing. 

It’s going to be a dreadful bore for you. At best, if you stay on in this job, you’ll have to join your political - but not spiritual - allies, the remnants of the old Labour Right, with all their dogged loyalty to party traditions and their tedious personal integrity, committing yourselves to the gruelling task of just being a good constituency MP for many years. At worst you’re going to face embarrassing re-selection battles and the derision of your Tory counterparts.

You know from the experience of New Labour that a whole new party formation can be created in a very short time. This is exactly what’s happening now. Against all expectations, Labour is transforming into a mass democratic socialist party. Whatever happens to that party, it isn’t going to change back into the one you had a home in. 

So why not save us all the pain? Why not just move on? Follow your heroes David Miliband and Alan Milburn into the corporate end of the NGO sector or the private healthcare industry. Take up those City consultancies. Become a TV historian. Let someone who actually wants the job of being a Labour MP in this new party take it up. Avoid the conflict and the mess and the mutual recrimination. We’ll be better off without each other.

Best of Luck,

Jeremy

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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What I think people are forgetting is that a lot of people in the uk are disenfranchised, disillusioned and poverty stricken and have been led astray by right wing press and right wing political movements bc they have been taught to blame other poor people for their problems.
The Blairite movement let this happen.
But now there is a grassroots movement and very vocal supporters of Corbynism and the disenfranchised are our best chance.
Doesn't take much to change a ukip voter to a leftie if the arguments are sound and they can be shown how it is the govt and corporations who make their lives poo poo.
Clever memes, lots of discourse even with complete strangers in the pub or at the bus stop etc, campaigning with intelligence not emotional rhetoric and we can change things around by 2020

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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Kitchner posted:

I've already posted research that only 38% of non voters didn't vote because their political views weren't represented or they felt both parties were the same.

That won't even be 38% left wing supporters because BNP supporters could say the same thing in most seats.

This idea you're going to galvanise the 34% of the population who didn't vote in the last general election is daft.

Also campaigning with intelligence not emotion doesn't work. There's a great book by a neurobiologist turned psychologist turned political scientist called The Political Mind, you should read it. Humans make emotional decisions not rational ones.

You've quoted a newspaper poll which isn't research

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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From US Uncut : (btw lmao)

wo days ago “Correct the Record,” a Super PAC led by Clinton ally David Brock that coordinates directly with her campaign, sent out an email blast comparing Bernie Sanders to the new British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn and his controversial remarks supporting former Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.

But rather than running to the media trying to correct the fallacy created by the Clinton camp, Sanders continued to honor his campaign pledge of speaking directly to voters about issues instead of attacking his opponents. He sent out an email to his supporters decrying the style of politicking the Clinton email engaged in, and wasn’t afraid to say how he really felt:

“It was the kind of onslaught I expected to see from the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson, and it’s the second time a billionaire Super PAC has tried to stop the momentum of the political revolution we’re building together.”

In response to that email, ActBlue, a non-profit that processes and verifies online donations for many Democratic campaigns, reported that Sanders took in more than $1.2 million in small donations from people across the country after the Monday attack by Clinton . ActBlue Executive Director Erin Hill was stunned by the volume of responses and donations that came in:

“We’ve never seen an immediate donor response like what the Sanders’ campaign received on Tuesday. At one point, it drove 180 contributions through our platform per minute.”

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SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

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STALINGRAD
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Hey Kitchner


http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/is-war-criminal-tony-blair-up-poo poo-creek-without-a-paddle/
New Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn certainly thinks that the former prime minister should face the consequences of his decision to invade Iraq when the evidence is finally produced to the public that he broke international law. As a leading member of the Stop The War coalition, Corbyn is firm in his stance that the war was illegal and that Blair should be called to account to explain his actions. When asked if his predecessor should be charged as a war criminal his answer was definitive: “If’s he’s committed a war crime, yes. Everyone who’s committed a war crime should be.”

Until the eventual release of the Chilcot Report, the nation must wait with baited breath to see if our former leader will finally be made to pay for his illegal war.

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