The Dregs posted:

I hate this loving state and I can't wait to get out

Powercrazy posted:

Well since I know from GBS that the south is bad, and a lot of people in the south are being hosed by the legal system, perhaps they deserve it, and the world is Just after all?

Moridin920 posted:

Of course it was about slavery nimrod. I'm not saying the civil war wasn't about slavery.

I'm saying that hey maybe it was about other poo poo also.

quote:

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

If only your wife hadn't thrown out all the booze

TNG posted:

Very much the Southern governments were concerned with maintaining a slavery orientated white supremacist form of government that had existed as long as slave ships had been coming to North America's shores. ANIME IS BLOOD is wrong in one area: the founders did not think that slavery would be something that would die out. Patrick Henry, James Madison, and George Mason, all who supported slavery in its then current form, raised a stink about maintaining the South's ability to keep slaves. In fact, the 2nd Amendment was created as a concession to get Virginia and other slave states to sign off on the Constitution in 1781. They needed federal guarantee that southern slave patrols would always have the right to be armed so as to put down slave rebellions, several of which had been raging before the Revolution, as well as maintain their slavery police state. All the South's political history from the very foundation of the country has been an effort to maintain, promote, and retain a slave state. The Civil War happened because there were elements of other states and private citizens that thought the whole slavery thing wasn't really that great anymore, and no one should do it.

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

The founders weren't a monoculture and had a diversity of opinions - Benjamin Franklin founded one of the first anti-slavery societies, and Jefferson, while he owned slaves, hoped that the next generation of Americans would be able to end the practice. The fact is that slavery was well established long before the founders and is not something that can be dumped on their laps

As for the 2nd amendment for the love of God don't summon Tezzor to this thread as well

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

The founders weren't a monoculture and had a diversity of opinions - Benjamin Franklin founded one of the first anti-slavery societies, and Jefferson, while he owned slaves, hoped that the next generation of Americans would be able to end the practice. The fact is that slavery was well established long before the founders and is not something that can be dumped on their laps nor was their failure to end it an indictment of the US as a whole

As for the 2nd amendment for the love of God don't summon Tezzor to this thread as well

Blistex posted:

The end of the Civil War should have been celebrated "Carthage Style".

Hooded Reptile posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm4V75VnMdQ

lol

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

Next you're going to tell me that Bleeding Kansas wasn't about slavery either, it was just random violence that occurred for no reason in Kansas

TNG posted:

Oh yes, it was also about White Supremacy. Let's take a look at Texas' Declaration of Causes of Secession.


Very much the Southern governments were concerned with maintaining a slavery orientated white supremacist form of government that had existed as long as slave ships had been coming to North America's shores. ANIME IS BLOOD is wrong in one area: the founders did not think that slavery would be something that would die out. Patrick Henry, James Madison, and George Mason, all who supported slavery in its then current form, raised a stink about maintaining the South's ability to keep slaves. In fact, the 2nd Amendment was created as a concession to get Virginia and other slave states to sign off on the Constitution in 1791. They needed federal guarantee that southern slave patrols would always have the right to be armed so as to put down slave rebellions, several of which had been raging before the Revolution, as well as maintain their slavery police state. All the South's political history from the very foundation of the country has been an effort to maintain, promote, and retain a slave state. The Civil War happened because there were elements of other states and private citizens that thought the whole slavery thing wasn't really that great anymore, and no one should do it.

The Union won, but I think the South is winning the ensuing culture war. The fact that people in this thread are going back to the tired old "MANY OTHER CAUSES, ECONOMICS, NORTH JUST AS BAD" bullshit is proof enough. But if you look elsewhere in the country, where there are military bases named after Confederate generals, Confederacy war memorials are some of the most numerous memorials maintained, history books being printed that are calling slaves "workers" or "migrants", people ask tour guides at former plantations if the master was "kind" to his slaves, and this bullshit, you see that Confederate apologia is alive and well.

The South needed to be broken intellectually after the Civil War, and that sadly did not happen. Former confederates were able to write in newspapers, novels, and pamphlets and do what all the cannons and soldiers in the world could not do for the Confederacy. It's really unfortunate that this ignorance over the history of Civil War has all been by design. And we continue to allow it to happen, because the legacy of the Confederate writers is still with us. It's ingrained into Southern intellectual culture, and that filters down into the peckerheads that did this, and all the other idiots that propagate bullshit like it.

TNG posted:

No, but your argument was that "The founders believed that slavery would die out", when in fact there were big blocks of them who did all in their power to make sure that it would stick around. I would also say that the very fabric of this country from its inception is based on White Supremacist ideology, and that very much is their fault. For as much as you ballyhoo Jefferson, read his "Notes on the State of Virginia" on what he thought about Black People and their role in society.

TNG posted:

The only things John Brown and William Tecumseh Sherman did wrong was that they couldn't go on.

SHISHKABOB posted:

Dude who cares what exactly precisely the stupid loving founding fathers wanted about slavery. They put the amendments in there so that poo poo could change if it had to, and poo poo changed, so it did.

TNG posted:

The South needed to be broken intellectually after the Civil War, and that sadly did not happen.

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

The whole nation's paying for it and will continue to pay for it until someone figures out how to put the idea of the confederacy in an banned police chokehold until it stops breathing.

Premeditated Toast posted:

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

It was a situation all of them inherited which they dealt with to the best of their ability at the time, and I'm pretty sure that American ideals set forth in the Constitution were, going forward, better motivation to end slavery than otherwise, and as far as my ballyhooing of Jefferson goes you still haven't acknowledged the work of Benjamin Franklin or John Jay and Alexander Hamilton in agitating against slavery

Premeditated Toast posted:

Was googling "State's Rights" and found this.

NecroMonster posted:

we, for some god forsaken reason, decided to treat the remains of Southern power like they were human, like they deserved mercy, like there was some value in leaving them alive, not only to us, but to the rest of humanity

we assumed, we acted, like we had won the war, and in so doing surrendered that very war to them, and on their terms

TNG posted:

Well the best of their ability being "I want to continue to profit off the forced labor of African Slaves" or "I want this Country to be a thing, so I guess I'll go along with all the hypocritical racism". For all the efforts of the anti slavery blocks, which side exactly got all the concessions in the Constitution towards Southern slave states? I don't remember the 13th or 14th Amendments or anything like it in the original document or the Bill of Rights. I do see things like 3/5ths compromise for census purposes, the dreaded 2nd Amendment, and no real consideration to end the bondage of millions. John Jay, and you're right he did try, did write about how they were all a bunch of hypocrites, but it isn't like that got anything written in to put an end to it, because a lot of economic power was derived from slavery and thus a lot of political power.

TNG posted:

But my argument is thus: The causes for the Civil War extended back to the Revolution, and before. We as a people need to divorce ourselves from myths, both Confederate revisionism and from our founders as well. If we're going to end White Supremacism in this country, we need to say that these men certainly did not have all the answers and that we need different and better thinking for ourselves going forward.

NecroMonster posted:

yes reconstruction, that thing we stopped doing before it ever really got going, yes bring that up like it's something in your own favor

idiot

you idiot moron

Moridin920 posted:

And you still didn't answer my question; if the civil war started because of a moral imperative to end slavery, then why were slave states who did not rebel allowed to keep their slaves?

Also if the war was started because of slavery, then why were the slaves not freed until the Emancipation Proclamation over two years after the war's beginning?

Either the war was about slavery and from the beginning it was clear that it was meant to free slaves, or it was a mix of both. I'll give you a hint: most white people in the Northern government didn't care about black slaves. They cared about political power and cohesion. Abraham Lincoln didn't say 'I'll be damned if the slavery continues on my watch,' he said 'I'll be damned if I let the union split apart on my watch.'

Maybe you should apologize to your AP US History teacher bc you obviously didn't pay attention since you figured you knew everything already.

And I don't live in the South btw.

ANIME IS BLOOD posted:

because it's important to understand how and why poo poo happened to try and avoid even more poo poo happening in the future~

NecroMonster posted:

yes reconstruction, that thing we stopped doing before it ever really got going, yes bring that up like it's something in your own favor

idiot

you idiot moron

Blistex posted:

The end of the Civil War should have been celebrated "Carthage Style".

Helical Nightmares posted:

No wonder so many US History professors are depressed. It truly is a lost cause in the face of stupidity.