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ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

The IT thread is all hardware guys and MCSE and CCNA and tier 1 support so I figured I'd make one in our clubhouse for jobs that don't involve looking at things that aren't a computer screen. Talk here about the trials and tribulations of working in any sort of development job. Note that this is distinct from the Coding Horrors thread in that not everything that happens at your dev job is necessarily a horror (just most of it).

Awesome thread about getting your development job thataway

Game dev jobs thread here

ChickenWing fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 25, 2015

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ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

I transitioned from co-op employee to FTE and am in the process of swapping out all my crappy co-op handmedowns for actual real hardware. I got one of my 19" 4:3 monitors replaced with a 27" dell widescreen. I don't know what do do with all this space :ohdear: but holy poo poo eclipse is actually useable now!


It's weird having a huge fuckoff monitor and a little babby 19" together though

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Steve French posted:

Wow, a computer with 4 whole gigabytes??

I acutally was recently upgraded to a 6-core@3.4ghz Xeon machine with 32GB RAM and a 256GB SSD

That was from a much worse machine with like a 4-core@2ghz Xeon with 4gb RAM. I had to expedite the upgrade because I got moved to a new project and the server application wouldn't start due to lack of free memory.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

ratbert90 posted:

What's up Xeon/32GB/SSD buddy. :smug:

I have the exact same setup except a 500gb ssd. :smug:

:smug:


It sucks though because now I can't go get a coffee and come back before my project builds

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:


Yeah that's pretty much my old setup. I do not miss it. Not even a little. Especially considering that we are using STS (Spring version of Eclipse), which means that memory leaks will eventually grind the computer to a nigh-standstill over time regardless.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Volmarias posted:

How quaint, you build your code on your desktop.

:smuggo::hf::yayclod:

people get mad if I commit a broken build :saddowns:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Oh my god.


I finally *get* unit testing.


Why have I not been doing this my entire life, this is so useful :stonk:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

My previous project just got a new contractor to replace one who'd left, and another member of the team introduced him to me so that he knew who to come to if he ran into any snags. In the process I found out that not only do I have a reputation with that team for good work, but I'd implemented more of the codebase (as a co-op student) than the contractor who just left.


:kimchi:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

gap analysis is pain and suffering

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

What do you lot do when there's no work? I'm working at a bank now and the project I'm on is in early POC/prototyping stages. Four out of the six people on my team seem to have pretty steady work (not a lot of different tasks, mind you, just work on the same task), whereas I've only been assigned one task that I was able to complete fairly quickly. I've asked for more work, and let everyone know that I've got tons of free time and am available to help with anything, but that hasn't gained much traction. I feel like I'm sorta supposed to be responsible for the one task I have throughout the duration of this project (input validation, the IA is in something of a state of flux). I don't feel comfortable enough to go find other stuff to work on on my own yet as I'm still fairly new to this project, and on the one project I was on previously there was always work that needed to be done or defects that needed to be fixed so it was never a problem to find work when I asked for it.

Do I just work on self-improvement until there's more to do? I'd like to try and take the initiative but I don't want to step on anyone's toes - we're very limited in the scope of what we're allowed to touch.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Oh thank christ. These are -infinitely- more positive answers than I was expecting. I mean, logically I know I'm not doing anything wrong, but my lizard brain is completely certain I'm a day away from getting fired for not doing anything.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Yay the new IA got approved for our module and now I have to go back through all my validations and completely redo them because the structure fundamentally changed :shepface:

I'm beginning to despise SpEL

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

So today I get to tear apart and redo my validation code for the -third- time because the goddamn IA keeps changing. The first and second times I could live with but now they've decided they're going to use the JSON library that we found as our DTO instead of the nice, easy map structure we had before that worked really rather nicely with SpEL.


At least I'm not worried about not having any work now :shepface:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Phobeste posted:

This isn't really a request for help because I know the answer- somebody (not me, I'm just the dev team lead) decides whether that new product launching on time is more important to the business than x y and z random feature, and we do our prioritized work- but more to say, anybody else who's caught between Agile and non-Agile teams, I feel your pain. Significantly.

My project is actually experiencing this sort of issue as well - our teams are agile, but our backend is still operating waterfall. Thus, when we say "oh we didn't anticipate this in requirements let's ask backend to update real quick" backend says "no changes without a CR and also we're not touching that feature for another three months so uh get hosed I guess?"

Luckily we don't need the backend to touch too many things (and also I have personal involvement in none of them) but from what I've overheard it's an incredibly unfun clusterfuck.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Debugging SpEL is probably going to send me to an early grave

It doesn't help that I'm currently trying to fit an oblong peg in a round hole with it. It's not quite a square peg, but it sure as hell doesn't fit nicely.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Volmarias posted:

I'm getting into serverside programming after about 7 straight years of doing Android.

:iit:

That's a bit of a paradigm shift :stonk: what are you finding to be the hardest part of the transition?

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

ughughughughughguhguhguhguhguh


I opened a defect a couple weeks ago regarding a documentation gap. In the time between now and then, the documentation was updated so that the gap no longer mattered. Business team -just- got a look at the defect and now are probably going to look at me like I've got two heads.


This is made much better by the discussion we had a while back after I shotgunned like ten other documentation defects at them that they didn't believe the defects were valid (they were).

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Click Beelay posted:

Crossposted from the front-end thread as I didn't realize nobody's posted there in a week, sorry!

--

I hope this is the right place, looking for some insight.

I just graduated with a BSc in compsci and I've been offered a frontend position at a startup, which is owned by a huge company in my country, for pretty decent pay considering I have no real-world programming experience.

I'll be using JavaScript, React, Async, and Redux, and will apparently be given some exposure to backend (my preference) and mobile development.

Now the hosed up part, I never used any of those technologies throughout my degree. The last three I'd never even heard of until I started researching after the interview. I was very up-front about my experience and was assured it wasn't an issue, though I was made aware that I "will be learning a gently caress load".

The whole thing seems bewildering to me but I'm committed now, or at least intend to be after I receive the contract and it checks out - provided I'm not about to make a stupid mistake. That said, one of my circle of friends is made up of mostly mid-senior developers and a couple architects who've all seen my work, and assured me that I'll be fine.

So far, I've picked up the javascript fundamentals from Codecademy and I'm in the process of trying to wrap my head around React from the obvious resources I could find, and I'll be spending the weekend doing the same for Async and Redux. I'm also in the process of building every basic javascript app I can find tutorials for.

For reference, all my spare time is spent with coding, at the gym, gaming, or with the missus so I'm not worried about being able to fit in a lot of research and practice in my own time, after work, as it'll probably be necessary.

My question - am I hosed, or is it likely that since I have no experience outside of uni I'm overthinking the difficulty of being thrown into several technologies I've never heard of? Finally, could anyone recommend some learning resources for the four things I've listed?

Thanks.

Hello, fellow "new to the real world of programming" buddy! :buddy:

You're basically in the same position I was ~8 months ago. It's not so hard, trust me. You'll almost certainly be working with an established codebase and experienced colleauges. These both give you a foundation to work on, and nobody is going to expect you to start cranking out full systems from the day you land. Just ask a ton of questions and abuse the hell out of your VCS, and you'll be up and running pretty drat quick.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Man, I always thought my school had a poo poo CompSci program. It gets a bad rap from a lot of other schools in Canada.


It's good to know that apparently US schools are much worse :stonk:


Seriously how do you get out of university without knowing big-O.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Yeah, like just at a fundamental level you should know algorithms if you're doing any sort of programming, and big-O is a fundamental part of algorithms.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Things pissing me off:

holy fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck why did we take half an hour out of our 1.5 hour meeting to talk about which parts of a single 30 word blurb of text are dynamic :cripes:


I really hate people who make it their meeting-mission in life to have a very long and protracted opinion on every single point

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Java devs: how do you feel about intellij idea? I'm working with Spring Tool Suite at work (Spring-focused eclipse distro) and I'm interested in seeing what idea has to offer, but I'm having issues finding out how to do all the stuff I'm used to doing in eclipse and I want to know if it's worth it or not.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Okay cool. Every time I've tried to use it I've had issues deploying to servers in the same manner I would with the eclipse TC servers, but I'm now somewhat inspired to get over it. New spare time project :woop:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

We log work to specific jira tasks, but as far as I know nobody really cares about it so long as you don't go too wildly over the estimate without an excuse

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Sometimes I think my job is a little goofy when it comes to their agile implementation, then I read this thread and feel better. Our agile isn't exactly making things better, but at least it's not actively making them worse.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

If I was planning on jumping from a full time to a contract job, how much should I be bumping up my expected compensation to account for the fact that I wouldn't have vacation days/benefits/etc anymore?

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Gounads posted:

I did that a few years back. I almost doubled my base-salary in the process. I was lucky that I previously did the hiring at the company I contracted for, so I knew exactly how much I could ask for.

Here's a few things to remember:

Assuming you're U.S., don't forget self-employment taxes. That's an extra 7.65% gone off the top.
Health insurance is loving expensive. (but self-employed people get to write it off their taxes.) Luckily, with the ACA, you don't have to worry about IF you can get it anymore.
Contractors have pauses between gigs. Your compensation should pay for the time required to find a gig.
You now pay for your own hardware, software, internet, phone, and maybe travel (depending).
Public companies often have weird motivations for reducing head count, and contractors don't add to head-count. They're willing to pay a premium for that. (efficiencies of capitalism!)
You're negotiating. Ask high, settle lower.
I had to form an LLC ($500/year here)
I had to get both business liability and professional malpractice insurance as part of the contract, that was another $1500/year gone. (I don't think that's common)

I didn't realize that you were expected to pay for all your own devices, huh. I guess you can write that off though. In fact, there seems to be a ton of stuff you can write off - I guess an accountant won't go amiss around tax time.

Any Canadians with opinions? I know at least benefits won't be an issue - OHIP plus my fiancee's benefits means I'm not going to be put out with respect to health stuff. I think my major bugaboos are the potential downtime between contracts and having to account for all of my taxes on my own.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Okay so this hypothetical contract position has morphed into a hypothetical consultant position. Any consultants want to let me know roughly what that entails?

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Munkeymon posted:

As in working for an agency?

Yes

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Consultant job just called and we're setting up a meeting with some of the people I'd potentially be working with.

come on :yotj:

The person who called asked me for my salary and I said I'd prefer not to disclose right now. This is the correct answer, y/n? Everything I've heard makes it sound like I shouldn't ever let them know what I'm currently making so I don't get lowballed on a salary, but the caller made it sound like it was required information.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Vulture Culture posted:

They always will, to try and pry it out of you. My stock answer is usually something like "I'd prefer any compensation discussions be based on the value I can bring to your company, not some other company."

Bleh. I felt so combative when I said even that. This is going to be a difficult process, especially given that I technically haven't even graduated university yet so I'm sitting here talking a big game meanwhile my resume is flashing a big "PLEASE LOWBALL ME" sign.

Luckily the glassdoor salaries look better than my current one to start with, so hopefully there won't be too much in the realm of negotiation.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

lol what's morale

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Alright, interview is on thursday - I'm interviewing for a consultant that primarily works with financial systems, what sort of stuff should I be focusing my studying on. I'm a little rusty on my algorithms and I'm guessing a bit of encryption wouldn't go amiss. I haven't started yet because I've been busy studying for exams :v:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

I've never done pair programming in a professional environment, but it's always been nice in school for a bit of a sanity check. I have a bad habit of overcomplicating things, so it's good when I miss something simple and someone points it out to me and looks at me like I'm daft. It also helps when you get the occasional "why did you do X like that", so that you can actually analyze your reasons and talk it through.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

:yotj:

Landed the consulting job. Oh god what are all these technologies how does this work aaaaaaaaaa why isn't this my rigidly organized 100% boring tech banking platform :psyboom:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Khisanth Magus posted:

Hmph, some consultant you are, not being a god level developer on every modern technology?

It's okay technically I'm not a "Consultant" yet, I'm whatever this company's entry-level "get a couple projects under your belt, *then* you get the real title" job is. I have lots of time to become fluent in every language and proficient with every bleeding-edge tech so that I can charge $10k a day to someone to stare ponderingly at their servers before telling them to install adobe reader.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

I'm using HipChat at my new place and I've had zero problems with it, plus it's got neat integrations with other Atlassian stuff (or so it seems, maybe it's just cleverly contrived). Not that we use it much anyways, we're set up in a bullpen style environment so we just go talk to people if we need to :v:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Che Delilas posted:

Regarding the bullpen: I'm curious as to how well that arrangement can be done. How loud does it get? Are there any marketing/support people with you (or really anyone with a desk phone, that's my normal metric for "will this person be a constant source of disruption for me?) or is it just devs in the bullpen? Is there a cultural understanding that discourages full-volume conversations? Alternatively, are there enough quiet spaces in you can escape to when you?

It's a bullpen surrounded by small offices with a wraparound hallway that attaches to the kitchen and a handful of conference rooms. Depending on what's going on there tends to be a constant murmur of conversation. There's about 30-40 people in here at any given time - mostly devs, some BAs, some admin staff. No desk phones. Nobody's cross-office hollering - occasionally you'll have a conversation with someone not-adjacent for you, but for most elongated conversations you'll usually go to the person's desk, or find a meeting room if entirely necessary.

If you're the kind of person who loses concentration if anyone talks near you, you'd definitely need headphones. Personally, sometimes I like them when I'm in a groove and want to tune everything out, but for the most part I find it's helpful to be in tune with the discussions surrounding me, as I sit near my team and can often learn important stuff or provide input to other conversations. At my previous job, I was listening to music from the time I got in to the time I left because everything was isolated and I never needed to talk to anyone. The atmosphere is more social and tight-knit here, so after a couple days I just found it easier to keep the headphones off.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Che Delilas posted:

I am, for some definitions of "talk." Some people can hold conversations in the adjacent cube and I don't notice (I do use headphones but I keep those quiet too). Some people talk like they're in an auditorium without a mic, no matter the context, and it's THOSE people I want to strangle.

It sounds to me like I could live with such an arrangement, as long as there were an understanding that people don't try to talk to the back of the room.

Yeah you'd probably be fine. Most of the chatter occurs in the morning during and after standups, when people are talking about what they need to work, and everyone's polite about their volume levels.

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ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Today I did things with git that weren't commit/push/pull and I feel like a goddamn wizard

like they were barely a step above a complicated merge but as far as I'm concerned I basically said abracadabra and the thing I wanted to happen happened.

:smuggo:

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