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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/ http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/04/australian-motorcycle-gang-diy-firearms-surface/
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Dec 7, 2015 22:39
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LeoMarr posted:It's cute that you didn't even read the post and only saw pictures. Whoa, some dude 30+ years ago made a makeshift weapon in the prison shop. Surely this is relevant to literally anything at all. edit: haha just noticed the Hooked on Phonics hotlink, keep those hot takes coming
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Dec 7, 2015 22:39
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LeoMarr posted:http://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-an-untraceable-ar-15-ghost-gun/ I understand that it is possible, but why is it virtually never done by criminals? Obviously it's mostly related to "most murders are not premeditated by people with access to a machine shop," but what about those that are premeditated? http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control quote:As I wrote last January, the central insight of the modern study of criminal violence is that all crime—even the horrific violent crimes of assault and rape—is at some level opportunistic. Building a low annoying wall against them is almost as effective as building a high impenetrable one. This is the key concept of Franklin Zimring’s amazing work on crime in New York; everyone said that, given the social pressures, the slum pathologies, the profits to be made in drug dealing, the ascending levels of despair, that there was no hope of changing the ever-growing cycle of violence. The right wing insisted that this generation of predators would give way to a new generation of super-predators.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:40
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Radbot posted:Whoa, some dude 30+ years ago made a makeshift weapon in the prison shop. Surely this is relevant to literally anything at all. Australian mass shooting happened 20 years ago surely this is relevant to literally anything at all.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:40
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LeoMarr posted:Australian mass shooting happened 20 years ago surely this is relevant to literally anything at all. I agree that the mass shooting that lead to Australian gun control is relevant to a conversation about gun control.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:41
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Tezzor posted:I understand that it is possible, but why is it virtually never done by criminals? Obviously it's mostly related to "most murders are not premeditated by people with access to a machine shop," but what about those that are premeditated? I built my own AR-15, bought my own lower and assembled the rest. it took less than an hour. It would have taken less time to put a fully automatic select fire trigger assembly because they come preassembled. Milling an 80% took 15 minutes and I bought a dremel from Goodwill for $10. Can someone explain to me in their own words how they believe a firearm is made, because if you really think you need a machine shop to build a firearm then you are foolish.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:44
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LeoMarr posted:I built my own AR-15, bought my own lower and assembled the rest. it took less than an hour. It would have taken less time to put a fully automatic select fire trigger assembly because they come preassembled. You seem to have difficulty answering the question. Why does almost nobody do this before committing crimes? I understand that you were determined to do it because you are a gun fanboy who wanted a neat toy (thanks for admitting to breaking federal law without being asked btw, when ancient demon "Obama" bursts from his skinsuit this will be very handy) but why do other people not do this?
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Dec 7, 2015 22:47
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Tezzor posted:You seem to have difficulty answering the question. Why does almost nobody do this before committing crimes? I understand that you were determined to do it because you are a gun fanboy who wanted a neat toy (thanks for admitting to breaking federal law without being asked btw, when ancient demon "Obama" bursts from his skinsuit this will be very handy) but why do other people not do this? Lol you think it's a felony to manufacture firearms you are literally retarded With certain exceptions, and subject to any state law that might apply, as long as an individual is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, he or she can make a firearm for personal use. If an individual wants to manufacture and sell firearms, he or she is required to obtain a license, and mark each firearm manufactured in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92. [18 U.S.C. 923(i), 26 U.S.C. 5822]
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Dec 7, 2015 22:49
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LeoMarr posted:
Because they're far less dangerous than guns, and useful for an enormous variety of important and innocent day-to-day tasks? LeoMarr posted:Here: tell me how you can ban this Let's ask Israel, where terrorist attacks in the heart of Jerusalem are being carried out with knives, thanks to the restrictive gun control measures which virtually ban Palestinians and Arab-Israelis from having guns. Apparently, Palestinians seem to feel that building homemade guns in their basement is actually pretty hard after all, because they're not doing it. It's not like the "oh they just don't have a gun culture" excuse holds up, either, because the attackers clearly want guns - that's why their first victim is typically someone who is openly carrying a gun, so that they can steal the gun and use it to shoot more people. If guns are such a great deterrent, and if guns are so easy to build in your own home, then why is it that Palestinian attackers in East Jerusalem would rather attack an armed man to steal the gun out of his hands, instead of simply building their own gun out of plumbing supplies in the safety of their own basement? There is one simple counterpoint to the "well what if they 3D print a pistol or assemble a shotgun out of poo poo they found in a construction site dumpster" - the fact that nobody ever does it as anything more than a proof of concept. You'd think that if it were really so easy, people would be doing it more often for real use, even if only out of hobbyism or thrift. The fact that real gun companies haven't been put out of business by 3D printers and plumbing supply stores suggests that either it's harder than it looks, or the homemade guns are actually such total garbage that even the thriftiest gun hobbyist and the most desperate criminal can't stand to call them "weapons". Why does anyone pay hundreds of dollars for a gun and subject themselves to various state and federal restrictions in the first place, if it's so trivially easy to build their own?
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Dec 7, 2015 22:51
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LeoMarr posted:Lol you think it's a felony to manufacture firearms you are literally retarded I think it is illegal to modify a firearm to make it fully automatic, which is what I thought we were talking about. I don't really know what "milling an 80%" is because I have hobbies that revolve around emotional health.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:52
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Dunno if its been posted yet but here's a cool blog that highlights improvised guns recovered by police forces around the world, which some people may find interesting and topical. They run an interesting gambit from "barely functional, cobbled together single-shot deathtraps" to "surprisingly sophisticated and well-machined fully automatic machine pistols" https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/ A lot of the really crazy stuff is from Brazilian favelas, like this absurd hex-barrel shotgun 
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Dec 7, 2015 22:54
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Tezzor posted:I think it is illegal to modify a firearm to make it fully automatic, which is what I thought we were talking about. I don't really know what "milling an 80%" is because I have hobbies that revolve around emotional health. Also I never actually said I assembled a fully automatic firearm. But your emotional health obviously trumps the need for reading comprehension. Milling an 80% = assembling a fully automatic weapon, gotcha. LeoMarr posted:I built my own AR-15, bought my own lower and assembled the rest. it took less than an hour. It would have taken less time to put a fully automatic select fire trigger assembly because they come preassembled.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:54
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LeoMarr posted:Also I never actually said I assembled a fully automatic firearm. But your emotional health obviously trumps the need for reading comprehension. Why are you admitting to gun ownership on the internet when we are but one or two irrelevant emotionally manipulative piles of dead seven year olds away from The Man kicking down your door and dragging you off to the internment camps? Stay safe
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Dec 7, 2015 22:58
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In some ways, gun control in the U.S. feels like trying to close Pandora's Box. It might've been possible before so many guns were stockpiled and in the supply of the general population as well as the development of the arms-industrial complex and major special interest groups such as the NRA, but the cat is out of the bag and almost impossible to get back in now.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:00
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https://news.vice.com/article/despite-firearm-restrictions-gun-violence-kills-five-people-every-hour-in-brazil
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Dec 7, 2015 23:02
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LeoMarr posted:I built my own AR-15, bought my own lower and assembled the rest. it took less than an hour. It would have taken less time to put a fully automatic select fire trigger assembly because they come preassembled. If it's so simple what exactly is your fear? If your guns get taken away just macguyver up a new one out of parts you didn't make yourself.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:05
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Who What Now posted:If it's so simple what exactly is your fear? If your guns get taken away just macguyver up a new one out of parts you didn't make yourself. We should ban cars to stop global emissions, I mean what's your fear? Just build one yourself.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:13
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LeoMarr posted:We should ban cars to stop global emissions, I mean what's your fear? Just build one yourself. But building a car is expensive and time consuming, while apparently building a gun is cheap and trivial.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:14
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Tezzor posted:But building a car is expensive and time consuming, while apparently building a gun is cheap and trivial. I think you'll find that once in 1986 someone did in fact build their own car and used it in a crime in Brazil. Ergo, no car regulations are necessary.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:27
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All the ridiculous lies ITT about the simplicity of making a functional and effective firearm (without purchasing kits) do not change the fact that no one actually does it outside of an extreme few notable exceptions, and rarer still are criminals manufacturing firearms for the purpose of committing crime in places where there are firearm restrictions. Hell, even simple IEDs like pipebombs are rare in use and require little in the way of knowledge and tools. It is a dumb thing to bring up.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:35
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Doomsayer posted:I think you'll find that once in 1986 someone did in fact build their own car and used it in a crime in Brazil. Ergo, no car regulations are necessary. Do you have real content to contribute or do you just spew the same revolving 3 arguments. I haven't even mentioned my opinion on regulation.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:35
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seiferguy posted:If you want your guns, just be honest with us: you want it because you like guns, and you see events like Sandy Hook as an acceptable sacrifice to keep your guns. seiferguy posted:And guess what? I have to take driver's education, pass a licensing test, have insurance, and get my license renewed every five years, and my car registration renewed every year in order to drive! Yes, cars are dangerous, and should be regulated. The primary reason for a car is to transport people / items. The primary reason for a gun is to kill people, and yet they're somehow less regulated than cars. The “guns are designed for killing” argument is a ridiculous argument, because by that logic, commercial rocket launches and private ownership of RADAR and a host of other technologies should be illegal. The designer’s intent for a thing is wholly irrelevant; if a person stabs someone with a knife designed to be used in the finest kitchens in Europe, it doesn’t make it any less dangerous than one designed for camping, or a bayonet.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:38
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For something actually germane: I have been reading some literature on the NICS background checks and some various state laws. Under the existing system, it appears that at the federal level, the FBI can place a hold to delay a purchase without initial due process, and many states have a "subversive group" clause which does not seem that different from the idea of the no fly list, as well as denial at judicial discretion without conviction or existing indictment. It seems that the government position on "due process" and gun purchases is that they are allowed to delay your purchase as long as you have a route to appeal without it being a rights violation. Is this accurate, or are there other checks and oversights of the various open ended catch-all capabilities that exist?
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Dec 7, 2015 23:43
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walgreenslatino posted:A lot of the really crazy stuff is from Brazilian favelas, like this absurd hex-barrel shotgun 
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Dec 7, 2015 23:51
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LeoMarr posted:We should ban cars to stop global emissions, I mean what's your fear? Just build one yourself. We should definitely ban cars with high emissions, slowly phasing them out of existence, yes.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:52
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Dead Reckoning posted:You are required to submit a bunch of paperwork because you want to operate your car on public roads. You can build a coal-powered dragster with no seatbelts and let a guy with a suspended license drive it around, and your state DoT generally won’t say a word as long as you keep it on private property and aren’t engaged in a commercial enterprise. This is such a fun argument I see pretty frequently. "You don't need a license or registration to operate a car, if you exclusively use it on private property, the way virtually nobody ever does in real life." I suppose it's part and parcel of the general gun advocate argument philosophy of "this thing which is true in virtually every case is in fact false because I can find a counterexample somewhere on the planet earth," cf.: prisoners don't have guns vs. look three prisoners had guns in the last 30 years; America had 350+ mass shootings this year vs. well Norway had one three years ago; America had 350+ mass shootings this year vs. nuh uh because 2 of those were with a pellet gun; Australia has 5% the murder by firearm rate of America vs. neener neener some criminals there get firearms sometimes. quote:The “guns are designed for killing” argument is a ridiculous argument, because by that logic, commercial rocket launches and private ownership of RADAR and a host of other technologies should be illegal. The designer’s intent for a thing is wholly irrelevant; if a person stabs someone with a knife designed to be used in the finest kitchens in Europe, it doesn’t make it any less dangerous than one designed for camping, or a bayonet. Agreed, what matters isn't the designer's original intent, but rather the effects of this technology on the real world. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 02:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:I’m pretty up-front about this. I see mass shootings as a problem of the same magnitude as shark attacks, voter fraud, and being hit by lightning. I understand that people may have a more visceral emotional reaction to people being shot than people being struck by lightning, but I don’t find an emotional reaction to be a valid basis for regulating something, whether than be guns, gay marriage, or mosque building. Haha yeah, lightning strikes are rare so you save money by not having a lightning rod on your house right? Or at least we should repeal that from building codes since lightning safety is obviously made-up by hysterical liberals to encroach upon the sovereignty of your property. Also US lightning deaths in all of 2015: 26, in other words the last three weeks of mass shootings. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 05:37
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I can't wait for all the hand-wringing bullshit after someone successfully weaponizes a drone they bought off Amazon and kills a dozen people with it.
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Dec 8, 2015 05:52
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VitalSigns posted:Haha yeah, lightning strikes are rare so you save money by not having a lightning rod on your house right? Or at least we should repeal that from building codes since lightning safety is obviously made-up by hysterical liberals to encroach upon the sovereignty of your property. Also, nice job showing you're blatantly trying to juice the stats. The three week period including MH17 was well above average for air traffic fatalities, but no one seriously tired to claim that "nearly 100 people per week have died on commercial jets in the last three weeks" because most people aren't stupid enough to fall for sample size gimmicks. BTW, which metric for "mass shooting" are we using? Because Mother Jones' 37 killed YTD compares pretty well with the 27 from lightning.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:18
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What is the best way to curb the large number of occurrences of firearm violence if any form of gun control is a no go? "mental health" gets cited as absolutely, positively, the number 1 reason gun violence happens but without any acknowledgement of the fact that people with poor "mental health" had easy access to firearms
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Dec 8, 2015 06:27
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Wheeee posted:I can't wait for all the hand-wringing bullshit after someone successfully weaponizes a drone they bought off Amazon and kills a dozen people with it. There is already legislation for drone regulation in the works because people have endangered other people's lives with them. (And I'm not talking about the US drone program, dohohoh)
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Dec 8, 2015 06:32
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Do people find it impossible to accept that someone could be of rational mind and still murder/massacre people? Why do you have to be mentally ill to commit murder? If that were the case, every single case of murder would be disqualified by reason of insanity, yet clearly that's not the case. There's also, of course, soldiers who have to kill as per orders and yet aren't mentally ill when they commit the act.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:33
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muike posted:What is the best way to curb the large number of occurrences of firearm violence if any form of gun control is a no go? "mental health" gets cited as absolutely, positively, the number 1 reason gun violence happens but without any acknowledgement of the fact that people with poor "mental health" had easy access to firearms Your Dunkle Sans posted:Do people find it impossible to accept that someone could be of rational mind and still murder/massacre people? Why do you have to be mentally ill to commit murder? Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 06:35
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I didn't say that they are good reasons, just contesting why someone has to be cuckoo in order to be able to kill. You could, I dunno, be in a hostage situation where you're forced to kill someone or be killed yourself.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:I honestly don't know what side you think you're arguing here: lightning strikes are incredibly rare, but that isn't a sound basis for banning lightning rods on private buildings. I too would like to live in a world where no one had guns and murdered each other but lets be realistic here that will never happen. Is gun control a hill worth dying on, is using you're limited political capital on this issue a smart choice? We have old people freezing to death and infants going hungry but lets take away bubbas AR. Sword and Sceptre fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 06:43
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:I didn't say that they are good reasons, just contesting why someone has to be cuckoo in order to be able to kill. You could, I dunno, be in a hostage situation where you're forced to kill someone or be killed yourself.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:I honestly don't know what side you think you're arguing here: lightning strikes are incredibly rare, but that isn't a sound basis for banning lightning rods on private buildings. Oh okay so we should support sound precautions that save lives even from something rare like lightning strikes, great. I like how you complained that I pointed out the last three weeks of mass shootings equalled the number of lightning strike deaths all year because last week was anomalous, and then you counter with "no according to the most restrictive definition of mass shooting possible in which you can shoot any number of people but it's not a mass shooting if only three of them die, it's only been 37 all year*" *Data through November 23rd  See if you exclude the largest mass shooting and a couple others, 2015 looks pretty good what's the problem.
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Dec 8, 2015 06:53
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If you ignore 90% of the times where 4+ people were shot in a single incident, I think we'll see that
Tezzor fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 06:57
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Dead Reckoning posted:Funny enough, I'm pretty sure the "kill non-threatening others or an outside actor will kill you" defense has been considered and found to not be a defense to murder. I don't think that, if you need a kidney transplant, you are allowed to murder organ donors in order to speed your progress up the transplant list. Not trying to derail the topic further, but I was thinking of a scenario like, let's say you're abducted by ISIS abroad with a few other journalists. Blindfolds come off a few hours later, you're with the other journalists and ISIS guys point guns at your heads. They say, convert and kill the guy next to you to prove your faith. If you don't, you die. You comply and kill the guy next to you, but you are rescued mid-scenario by US Special Forces and flown back home. The situation is described back home, now what?
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Dec 8, 2015 06:58
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You're a loving murderer is what. E: I mean, you can argue that U.S. courts don't have jurisdiction in Iraq/Syria, but you up and knowingly murdered a dude who posed no threat to you or anyone else. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 07:00
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