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I really enjoyed last season and I am really looking forward to the new season! It does make me a little sad, though. My mother loved this show and read the books at the same time I did, and we used to talk about it all the time. She passed away this year. At least I can still chat about it here when it comes out.
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Dec 17, 2015 11:25
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Phenotype posted:I was hoping that this was going to happen going into the last season. I don't think Alliser was part of the mutiny in the books, Jon had assigned him to run one of the other watch castles by then. I really don't think it fit his character, or at least, wasn't written in a way that fit his character. Jon had shown him a great deal of respect after being made Lord Commander, and he seemed like the type that would uphold his vows over all, especially if he felt his skills were being put to good use. In the books, Alliser is sent on a ranging after Slynt's execution and Alliser angrily believes Jon's just getting rid of him (since he could execute Alliser if he refuses), then says he'll be coming back for Jon one way or another. It's entirely fitting for his character in the book that if he weren't sent on a suicide mission he'd have joined the conspiracy. People were fond of the idea of Alliser not joining the conspirators in the show because since he's been painted as an rear end in a top hat and Jon's Night Watch rival, having him join the attack makes both them and him seem like plain old villains. If he doesn't join in, though, then the audience is more inclined to think about the conspirators' motivations since they don't just line up with being an rear end in a top hat. That job was mostly done in the show by Ollie, since he's meant to be sympathetic, but a lot of fans (on Something Awful, at least) can't get past him being a show-only character and that quote about Hill so it's not a popular move.
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Dec 20, 2015 16:45
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They might, if the Wildlings as a force cease to matter. The Night's Watch and Wildlings both could end up getting wiped out by the Others/Northern infighting as a way to help establish the Ice Apocalypse is now and clear the field so the South has to start worrying about all this Winter business. The Wall's bound to fall sooner or later so everything and everyone in the North short of maybe Winterfell and whoever holds it might be as good as dead. Alternatively the season ends with Bolton and Stark-Loyalist forces decimating each other and then a horde of Wights sweeps through, killing Jon and Ramsay for good. Which would be hilarious, if it turned out the whole Jon resurrection thing was just another red herring that went nowhere.
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Mar 10, 2016 22:20
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Edit: ^^^ That sounds extremely plausible, although I'm assuming the "Stark" part of those forces doesn't mean actual Stark soldiers, since there aren't any left, just Mormonts, Hornwoods and Wildlings. Looks like the Umbers and Karstarks stay traitor to the end too so by the end of all this there'll basically be no Northerners left at all. And Rickon's probably dead? Whew.Ginette Reno posted:Presumably Littlefinger will be involved too. Probably on the side of the Starks. Or he might try to waltz in after the battle and clean up the scraps of whoever wins, though I'm not sure how that would play narratively since it would mean Jon would lose. Jon proves he's a true Stark by getting into a situation where he seems like the underdog hero that's going to pull through in the end and nope, turns out he's another red herring and subverted fantasy trope. Ramsay is the Prince That Was Promised. Dolash fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 01:53
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It's a little surprising to me to learn Rickon's going to eat it this season, I always assumed he was the Stark the story was keeping in reserve so someone could run Winterfell at the end of the story. With Bran on permanent Freaky Snow Wizard duty and probably fated to never see his family again that leaves just Sansa and Arya from Ned's actual offspring. Arya might survive but she wasn't suited to the noble life in the first place and she's seriously unlikely to go back to it now after everything she's been through. If Jon's ditching the Night's Watch he might be a Stark or a Targ but it's looking like his destiny will take him past Winterfell to either the Iron Throne, some crazy thing with the Others, or Eventual Heroic Death. So that leaves... Sansa? Will she be the only one left to carry on the Stark line and run Winterfell? Who's even left alive to serve her? The Boltons murdered the last of the Stark-loyal servants. Would she be able to secure some kind of political marriage to rebuild her House, and somehow not end up a trophy to bolster someone else's claim on the North? The House and its people were dead before but they're looking extra dead now. Was there any discussion about the possibility of Sansa being pregnant with Ramsay's kid? Because drat, if he dies this season but gets the last laugh through the "heir of Winterfell", that'd be quite the note for him to go out on.
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Apr 20, 2016 00:41
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I'm no expert at Westeros Feudal politics but do they do matrilineal marriages? Because otherwise even if Sansa takes charge of Winterfell her kid wouldn't be a Stark. If Ramsay dies and takes House Bolton with him, though, Sansa could raise any kid she gets from him as a Stark and who's going to say otherwise? Alternatively the first Sansa scene post-escape this season is her knocking back Moon Tea like it's going out of season. Was thinking about the Bastardbowl leak and Littlefinger supposedly riding to the rescue. While getting rid of the Boltons is good, it seems like kind of a worst-case scenario for the survivability of the North. Their manpower was already depleted when they marched to slaughter with Rob, then the Ironborn turned up and ravaged the place, then the Boltons seized power and massacred a bunch of people, had a reign of terror where they killed people who looked at them sideways, now a last battle between surviving Stark loyalists and pro-Bolton forces ends with the Starks getting slaughtered but the Vale riding in and slaughtering the victorious Boltons. So at the end of it all, every single fighting force in the North has been decisively crushed. House Stark's people in particular have been completely eradicated. If Jon became the new King in the North it'd be of a bunch of women and children as anyone who could possibly hold a sword's been killed. And then, finally, Winter Arrives and the Others bring down the Wall, kill the Night's Watch and destroy everything north of the Neck. I guess there's some Wildlings left but drat they've got to be running on empty too considering they only saved a fraction at Hardhome.
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Apr 20, 2016 01:25
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It'd be funny if Gendry came back in the show and was legitimized as the new head of House Baratheon at some post-downfall-of-the-Lannisters point, since he's the only surviving one of Robert's bastards in the show. I mean, probably not, since if he was recognized as an heir to Robert then presto-surprise that's also a claim on the Iron Throne, also because he's a regular blacksmithing dude who doesn't want to rule anything (assuming there's anything left of House Baratheon to rule, we've never seen the Stormlands). I can imagine the show will just never acknowledge the Storm Lands or explain who runs them again. On the topic of heirs, if Jon really is taking it to the Boltons this season does that mean he's claiming the mantle of Lord Stark? His formal claim is pretty weak (even laying aside his actual parentage) but if he's at least known then maybe that'll be enough to rally the other Northerners. Interesting the Mormonts are on his side, might be that they heard how close he and the late Lord-Commander Mormont were. The Hornwoods are presumably just "Generic pro-Stark Northern House", while the Karstarks have bad blood from Rob executing Rickard and I guess the Umbers are the surprise twist since the Greatjon (if anyone remembers him) was pro-Stark so his son turning over Rickon is unexpected. Jon's big secret heritage as both a Stark and a Targ is mostly talked about in terms of him being a contender for the Iron Throne, but if he survives the series could he "settle" for just being King in the North or Warden of the North under whoever holds the Iron Throne? He's not really suited to be a Southern King and it's hard to imagine him pressing his claim against Dany or anyone else. I could imagine the series ending with him rebuilding Winterfell. Edit: if they go into the reason for why the Umbers side against Jon, my guesses will be either the Smalljon blames the Starks for his father dying fighting for Rob or he's mad that Jon is siding with the Wildlings. Or both. Dolash fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 21:43
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If you don't have the courage to put the shot of Brienne executing Stannis under "Justice" then I question your judgment on the whole Bingo card.
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Apr 22, 2016 08:02
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Melisandre's fire will burn inside Jon, keeping him alive. When Arya meets Jon again in the future, she will also be meeting Melisandre again, in a way. Actually, it might be neat if she stuck around as an occasional voice in Jon's head or a Force ghost or whatever. Assuming she realizes Jon's the real Azor Ahai he'll need some guidance about his Mystic Destiny, and while she's 0 for 1 on guiding Chosen Ones he might need at least something to go on. Speaking of Jon's motivation, assuming getting revived really is the loophole that gets him out of the Night's Watch (and that somehow the rest of the North acknowledges he's come back from the dead, Ned's Bastard was a known figure and being Lord-Commander is news that would've gotten around), what will his motivation be to ditch the Watch and go be Lord Stark? Maybe he realizes there's no hope of holding the Wall with everyone as divided as they are and decides the Wildlings had the right idea, so continues their march South? Is his plan to take over the North and defend it against the Others or will he be leading a migration the same way Mance did? Because from the sounds of it after the massacre to oust the Boltons there won't be enough manpower left to defend Winterfell much less the whole of the North. Edit: He better take whatever loyal Night's Watch members remain with him when he goes, even if that's just Ed of named characters.
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Apr 22, 2016 20:54
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Has the show established who the heir to Dorne would be in that scenario? Is it Ellaria somehow? Are they going to have to introduce a character to be the leader of Dorne? And I guess probably RIP Hotah, since it's hard to imagine him surviving the death of Doran. Alternatively he retaliates and kills Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, leaving no named characters left to represent Dorne so in the logic of the show the country ceases to exist and evaporates wholesale, much like the Stormlands. Edit: I assume since casting news is known if anyone had been cast to be the new leader of Dorne someone would've speculated/mentioned already. Ellaria wasn't even married to Oberyn so it's hard to imagine succession would connect to her, so with no kids around... could one of the Sand Snakes inherit? Acknowledged bastard daughter of the brother of the last ruler could be closest living blood relation. I guess that's Obara. Dolash fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 00:09
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If one of them snuck into the boat it kind of makes using poison to kill Myrcella seem excessive. Either poison them both or spear them both, they'll be hanging out together on the ship. It also seems strange to kill one of them at the end of last season and one of them at the start of this one, killing Myrcella set it up like an attempt to force Doran's hand, the same way crowning her and then Darkstar trying to kill her was in the books - but it turns out to be a palace coupe anyway, so they could've done the whole thing at the end of last season or saved her surprise death for the start of this one. If last season had ended in Ellaria murdering Myrcella, Trystane and Doran, framing Jaime and seizing control of Dorne through the Sand Snakes with plans to make war on the Lannisters while Jaime runs back to King's Landing with his tail between his legs, at least it wouldn't have seemed like Dorne's Season 5 plotline was going nowhere.
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Apr 23, 2016 00:28
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:This is the dumbest loving show in so many ways. Why not just kill off the Sand Snakes and forget about Dorne? loving christ. To be fair, if they'd just had Doran execute or imprison Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and promise not to cause any trouble so Jaime returns to King's Landing empty-handed and everyone just writes Dorne off entirely, that would've actually made the whole thing pointless, even if Doran went back to biding his time for Dany to arrive. If the characters who hate the Lannisters openly take control of Dorne that puts the threat of war right up in everyone's face and turns the Dorne story up to this point into how they took control, which at least has a point even if the pacing is terrible. By virtue of the fact that there's no other named leader for Dorne I think we're going to have to assume they do take over. Maybe they'll be allies for Dany when she comes to Westeros in a season or so?
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Apr 23, 2016 00:48
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The pacing might be terrible but I don't think Ellaria and the Sand Snakes taking over is necessarily a bad departure from the books. People already criticize Doran's book character for being failed characterization where he's a peaceful man who's secretly scheming revenge yet all his plans fail, so why not skip that and just have him be a peaceful man then get him usurped by angry people seeking revenge? It's the same net effect, Dorne is ready to go to war with the Lannisters and the Iron Throne and the timing's such that they might team up with Dany when she comes over (if they're skipping fake Aegon and Quentyn then they might as well skip any question of her alienating them). If they frame Jaime for all of it that'll even help explain what the point of the narrative sending him down there was meant to accomplish. Edit: there's a lot of speculation and connecting-the-dots going on here that they might not actually do, of course, so might still need to wait and see how it plays out.
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Apr 23, 2016 01:28
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It is too loving late in the game to keep introducing new conflicts like Dorne and the Iron Born. There are at most two short seasons to go after this and the central conflicts have yet to even begin to resolve themselves. The show should be approaching the home stretch here but they keep loving around. Who gives a gently caress that the Sand Snakes are going to go to war against the realm when the unstoppable apocalyptic horror of the white walkers are coming for everyone? It's a waste of time! They could join Dorne with Dany's army if/when she lands in Westeros some time next season, help her take King's Landing and establish the legitimacy of her rule if some of the Southern kingdoms are already in rebellion. A lot might depend on if the Tyrells are going to stick with the Lannisters.
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Apr 23, 2016 02:06
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Mel will resurrect Stannis instead of Jon and glamour him to look like Jon so he can take his place and become Lord Stark to exact his revenge. Or alternatively when Mel tries to resurrect Jon, Stannis's grumpy soul muscles his way in and he goes on to pretend to be Jon for the rest of the series. Davos only figures it out in a moment of silence when he hears Jon quietly grinding his teeth.
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Apr 26, 2016 20:41
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All that Mance Rayder business and the wildlings just managed to take the Wall in about sixty seconds.
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May 2, 2016 02:14
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Seems fine to me. The Boltons were going down one way or another once Jon gets the ball rolling, they might as well be headed by the Biggest Bastard when they do.
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May 2, 2016 02:38
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TheRat posted:Screw you all, that was a good episode Yeah, I've been dipping in and out of the spoiler thread all hiatus and up to now so I didn't really notice how uniformly critical this thread's become, but I enjoyed the episode just fine. It might be a little unfair being harsh on the other thread for being surprised by things when this one's had decently probable spoilers concerning deaths of Balon and Roose upfront, and Jon's resurrection's been talked to death for years.
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May 2, 2016 02:59
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Man I pretty much stay out of this thread now since it reads like cabin fever, but that episode was great and the battle was awesome. If you can't enjoy a classic "cavalry shows up to save the day" finale and the cathartic horrible death of a villain, what can you enjoy? Comparing it to Lord of the Rings doesn't have to a negative, the big battles in that series could be fun as hell. It was particularly satisfying for Ramsay to crack there right at the end instead of going full Joker "hah if you kill me I win!" about it. It does make me wonder how many Northern men/wildlings there can possibly be left. Jon's force was outnumbered 6 to 1 and looks to have been cut to absolute pieces in that battle, and then the Vale shows up and wrecks the Bolton army - even assuming the Bolton men surrendered once it was clear they were defeated and are maybe open to working for the new King of the North now their old boss is dead, this is the second time the North's lost close to its whole army over the space of a couple years. Jon'll be king of the ruins. lezard_valeth posted:What the gently caress is going on in this thread? From page 307 to 308 it's almost as if you jumped into the spoiler free thread were everyone is always happy about this show. Wait, do they actually like the show in the other thread? I mostly stopped checking it after I read the books, but if they're not into the hatewatching thing that might be more readable. Dolash fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 03:12
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