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blainestereo
Jan 16, 2013

quote:

But despite his lack of malice, Bertie is not completely off the hook, and neither is P.G. Wodehouse. When I look up the history of the word “friend of the family” in England, I find frequent references to it being a generally accepted word, one that was in common usage well into the 1940’s. It seems to have been used as a commonplace word, not as a calculated insult. The problem is, I can’t seem to find anything about how people reacted to this word who were actually black, and I also know that racism was a huge problem in England’s history. I’m less interested in what Bertie meant than in what the minstrel group would have felt if they had heard Bertie address them using that word – and they have no voice, so I don’t know.

There’s a phrase I hear a lot these days: “Check your privilege”. It means, take a look at your words and actions and make sure that you aren’t overlooking the viewpoint and/or struggles of those who have to struggle for respect and survival. P.G. Wodehouse and his characters are all about privilege and they have no interest in checking it. If a modern white character called a black character “friend of the family” than we could assume that a calculated insult was being delivered (the term is used in hip-hop culture in ways that I’m not well-educated about, but in any other context an insult would be pretty much guaranteed). In Wodehouse’s day, the word may have been used innocently by Bertie, who doesn’t want to hurt anyone but just wants to practice his banjolele. Even when he puts on blackface, it’s not to make fun of anyone – he just wants to escape his captor (and the fact that then he can’t remove the boot polish he used makes it something of a cautionary tale).

But just because Bertie isn’t trying to hurt anyone doesn’t mean he doesn’t hurt anyone, and the same could be said for P.G. Wodehouse. As Spiderman says, “With great power comes great responsibility” and when it came to social issues, P.G. Wodehouse assiduously avoided great responsibility. Reading classics lets us see the values and norms of an earlier age – and sometimes those values and norms aren’t pretty.

http://geekgirlinlove.com/2014/01/10/friday-book-club-p-g-wodehouse-and-race/

NB: the point of this post is the word "friend of the family" obviously.

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dreezy
Mar 4, 2015

yeah, rip.
i wanted to get through today without reading the word "friend of the family" and you've ruined it before the sun is even up. i hope you're happy.

blainestereo
Jan 16, 2013

dreezy posted:

i wanted to get through today without reading the word "friend of the family" and you've ruined it before the sun is even up. i hope you're happy.

yeah, rip.

Lawrence Gilchrist
Mar 31, 2010

England doesn't have "A black man comandeered my wife!" porn.

England 1
USA 0

Shaquin
May 12, 2007

Lawrence Gilchrist posted:

England doesn't have "A black man comandeered my wife!" porn.

England 1
USA 0

England doesn't have any porn at all you bog dwelling fuckwit because nobody wants to watch some anteater dick pale assed mongoloid giving it to a gap toothed fishwife while they both moan like some terrible sex siren exclusive to the barren inlets of your north atlantic hell hole

EasternBronze
Jul 19, 2011

I registered for the Selective Service! I'm also racist as fuck!
:downsbravo:
Don't forget to ignore me!
Wow, someone who self-describes themself as "Geek-" anything doesn't understand something awesome, what a loving shock.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
While we're at it, I'm a little concerned that Charlotte Bronte has internalized misogyny because Jane Eyre doesn't expressly condemn the patriarchal society in which heteronormative marriage is seen as a woman's highest aspiration.

Lawrence Gilchrist
Mar 31, 2010

Shaquin posted:

England doesn't have any porn at all you bog dwelling fuckwit because nobody wants to watch some anteater dick pale assed mongoloid giving it to a gap toothed fishwife while they both moan like some terrible sex siren exclusive to the barren inlets of your north atlantic hell hole

Actually it's because David Cameron banned it all but w/e

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
Why aren't there any homosexual characters in the Epic of Gilgamesh? Gilgamesh and Enkidu could have just as easily been gay lovers but instead they're "best friends"?

dreezy
Mar 4, 2015

yeah, rip.
gilgaymesh lol.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
I'm concerned about the lack of diversity in the cast of Beowulf.

blainestereo
Jan 16, 2013

see also:

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
When Zeus tricks women into having sex with him by disguising himself as a swan, he's actually raping those women. I know the author of that story is writing from the perspective of the time but that doesn't let him off the hook for perpetuating rape culture.

ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD
Jan 21, 2007

p sure there were a lot of subtle homoerotic undertones in the vedas

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
In Arabian Nights, why doesn't Aladdin wish for gender equality?

RideTheSpiral
Sep 18, 2005
College Slice
is it racist if i want a 'black man' to savage my butt hole and call me Mavis?

Unbelievably Fat Man
Jun 1, 2000

Innocent people. I could never hurt innocent people.


Is Bertie Wooster someone we should look up to and admire? I was under the impression that he was a gibbering retard and Stephen Fry walked around in front of him to make sure he didn't kill himself from sheer stupidity.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

Unbelievably Fat Man posted:

Is Bertie Wooster someone we should look up to and admire? I was under the impression that he was a gibbering retard and Stephen Fry walked around in front of him to make sure he didn't kill himself from sheer stupidity.

Bertie's an upper class twit. He's got a good heart but is not very bright. He's not meant to be admirable per-se but he always tries to do the right thing.

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid

Shaquin posted:

England doesn't have any porn at all you bog dwelling fuckwit because nobody wants to watch some anteater dick pale assed mongoloid giving it to a gap toothed fishwife while they both moan like some terrible sex siren exclusive to the barren inlets of your north atlantic hell hole
p racist dude i assume ur some fat inbred hillbilly from ur bitterness and racism levels (theyre off the charts!)

quote:

the term is used in hip-hop culture in ways that I’m not well-educated about,
lol

Jim Barris
Aug 13, 2009
Ya know I've read like fifteen of those jeeves and wooster novels and I just can't believe I managed to not pick up the one where bertie dresses up in blackface and says friend of the family because that sounds hilarious

gleebster
Dec 16, 2006

Only a howler
Pillbug
Bertie belonged to a club called the Drones. I think they had a pretty good idea of their privilege and their effective place in society.

fuck the ROW
Aug 29, 2008

by zen death robot
mods rename me to "the term is used in hip-hop culture in ways that I’m not well-educated about"

penus penus penus
Nov 9, 2014

by piss__donald
why is there a link to a book club , with the url "geek girl in love" . op wtf were you looking at

Whorelord
May 1, 2013

Jump into the well...

Shaquin posted:

England doesn't have any porn at all you bog dwelling fuckwit because nobody wants to watch some anteater dick pale assed mongoloid giving it to a gap toothed fishwife while they both moan like some terrible sex siren exclusive to the barren inlets of your north atlantic hell hole

check out this guy who got raped by Jimmy savile lol

Captain Yossarian
Feb 24, 2011

All new" Rings of Fire"

Shaquin posted:

England doesn't have any porn at all you bog dwelling fuckwit because nobody wants to watch some anteater dick pale assed mongoloid giving it to a gap toothed fishwife while they both moan like some terrible sex siren exclusive to the barren inlets of your north atlantic hell hole

This isn't true, England has "dogging" porn and its always making GBS threads up my porn viewing experience :(

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004



he'll be a good president imo

ColtMcAsskick
Nov 7, 2010
Please don't blackface shame Bertie Wooster tia

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.
As a kinky genderqueer geek I have the following thoughts about The Dam Busters:

DoctorStrangelove
Jun 7, 2012

IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!

Applewhite posted:

In Arabian Nights, why doesn't Aladdin wish for gender equality?

Aladdin wasn't in the original 1001 Nights though. It and Ali-Baba were added by the dude who first translated the stories so that it would sell better.

Though the point still stands that Aladdin should have wished for gender equality I agree.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

DoctorStrangelove posted:

Aladdin wasn't in the original 1001 Nights though. It and Ali-Baba were added by the dude who first translated the stories so that it would sell better.

Though the point still stands that Aladdin should have wished for gender equality I agree.

I guess that's just the sort of story we should expect from the type of person who would commit cultural appropriation.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
In The Andromeda Strain, why didn't they use the facility to cure AIDS?

Thirsty Girl
Dec 5, 2015

yes i wonder how those imaginary people felt

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
I know JRR Tolkien didn't mean to insult anyone when he named the stout, underground race in his books "Dwarves" but "Dwarf" is an offensive term for a Little Person. Tolkien might have been writing in a time when "Dwarf" was acceptable for people to say, but a person in his position should take every opportunity to change the toxic culture surrounding him, rather than contributing to it.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
In The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe why did C.S. Lewis make Aslan and allegory for Jesus when he had the perfect opportunity to make him an allegory for Mohammed? (PBUH) It's almost as if Lewis didn't care about how important representation is to minority cultures!

Thirsty Girl
Dec 5, 2015

Applewhite posted:

I know JRR Tolkien didn't mean to insult anyone when he named the stout, underground race in his books "Dwarves" but "Dwarf" is an offensive term for a Little Person. Tolkien might have been writing in a time when "Dwarf" was acceptable for people to say, but a person in his position should take every opportunity to change the toxic culture surrounding him, rather than contributing to it.

the kingdom of men needs to take a hard look at their unquestioning support of the dwarves following the resettlement of lonely mountain

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo
Why didn't George in Of Mice and Men take his clearly mentally challenged friend to a treatment center instead of using his retard strength to help plow fields. Pretty ableist imo

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
Someone should have told T.H White that there are already too many stories about Knights and chivalry where male heroes rescue stereotypical damsels in distress. He could have at least put a spin on it. Why couldn't King Arthur have been a woman?

Thirsty Girl
Dec 5, 2015

Crow_Rodeo posted:

Why didn't George in Of Mice and Men take his clearly mentally challenged friend to a treatment center instead of using his retard strength to help plow fields. Pretty ableist imo

there are treatment centers for being retarded?

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

im gaye posted:

the kingdom of men needs to take a hard look at their unquestioning support of the dwarves following the resettlement of lonely mountain

I know the Dwarves were almost wiped out in Sauron's campaign of genocide but when they turn around and do the same thing to the Goblins it seems a little hypocritical.

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Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
In Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle I think the unflattering portrayal of the citizens of San Lorenzo as backwards practitioners of an absurd religion is extremely insensitive. Vonnegut should have cast Bokononism in a more positive light and showcased its rich history, as well as told the audience about all the notable Bokononists who made positive contributions to the world. Instead, all we hear about is the one Bokononist who is responsible for the extinction of all life on Earth.

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