Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

AlexanderCA posted:

So it's been a while since I've followed the Ukraine conflict. Back then it seemed Ukraine was relying on militia type forces to resist Russian aggression. Do they now use their conventional forces? And if so don't those forces have the mass to retake the east or are they held back by larger concerns of escalation?

Their army is part militias, part what they had, part new recruits during the conflict, poor and underdeveloped as already mentioned. Around August 2014 they did, in fact, have the capability to go in and retake the areas, which is when, conveniently enough, Russian army did cross the border to save their cronies.

Edit: As for now, they have some problems they should resolve before they get up in arms with Russia again, even if it's reclamation of their own country. Besides that, the current state of affairs regarding entrenchment is not completely clear, so who knows if this can realistically be done, at all.

Somehow, I feel, it indeed is not really doable at this point, and Ukrainian south-east is not coming back for next decade or two.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Feb 26, 2016

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 19:46

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

There was fighting done by some of all the various battalions and such, but they, by large, were not able to maintain combat operations without embedding with the national guard or the armed forces proper. Makes sense, if you think about logistics.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 20:31

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

I thought angry LP kids bought DDoS instead of accounts after Lowtax disabled reading access to unregistered users.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 22:15

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

TheFallenEvincar posted:

If that is the reality of Ukrainian military then shouldn't/isn't the West flooding Ukraine with money and military aid? Like, everything they need without the West actually directly involving themselves militarily?

West doesn't care that much.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 22:40

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of militias, I saw an interesting report on Inter news here today. The family of a KIA Right Sector volunteer was demanding for him to receive proper combatant status, and thus all kinds of support that entails for the remaining family. As much as this sucks for the family, the courts have been denying this so far, which is IMO the correct thing. Because first of all, who the gently caress volunteers to go fighting when they have an unborn child on the way, and secondly, it's better not to legitimize these sorts of militias anyway.

I agree on all counts here. Not going to slander the dude for going to fight, as irresponsible as that was, but that doesn't change the outlook the cause either.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 23:24

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Runaktla posted:

While I agree that "gently caress Putin and everybody that is part of his elite club" the Russian populace have really no better option. Kinda lovely.

Your line of thought is the penultimate achievement of Putin's policies.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 03:11

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Thug Lessons posted:

Look at the comments from the series of posters you're responding to. Everyone acknowledges the current political support for Putin is entirely predictable given Obama's response, and he and the rest of the executive branch were definitely not ignorant that this would be the case.

You are not making much sense, presuming that was what you tried to do at least.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 07:32

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Penultimate means second to last. What do you think is/will be his final achievement? Restoring Tsarist Russia?

Opus magnum of Putin definitely will be the restoration of former statehood, though I think of that of the Soviet Union.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 12:58

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

This is very hosed up. :smith:

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 14:17

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Friendly Humour posted:

Russia joins the American club to learn why public mental healthcare is important.

Mental healthcare has been virtually non-existent throughout the Soviet Union.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 16:52

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Plan Z posted:

What's the current estimate of the number of Russian troops in Ukraine up to right now? I'm arguing with a guy who claims there are only 52, citing some lovely-looking video.

Are you certain that he is interested in hearing you out?

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 21:35

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Plan Z posted:

That, and i'd like to know as well since I fell out of news about the conflict.

The video mentioned is an alleged SBU report that I have not seen on official channels of SBU or Espresso.tv (though I have not specifically looked for it), which says that Security Service of Ukraine have investigations on 56 citizens of Russian Federation. Given the freezing nature of the conflict for the past year or so, there are no recent estimates that would go into great detail on the matter, that I know of at least. If we look at this piece by British military think tank from March last year, for example, then peak simultaneous presence of Russia soldiers is estimated at 12 thousand in eastern Ukraine, with some 30-40 thousands stationed in Crimea and total of some 40-50 thousands on the eastern border of Ukraine.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 03:01

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Is there any chance that is a parody website? Some of the other headlines make me think it's possible.

It is absolutely not.
http://mil.press/

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 19:59

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

pigdog posted:

Why not?

just because it would be a rude thing to do?

Their current economical woes will be a fart against the wind compared to consequences of direct military aggression against their largest customer.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 14:38

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Spirit or not, please keep Clancy chat (i.e. any in-depth discussions of nuclear war between whomever) out of the thread.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Please continue to observe the No Clancy Chat policy.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 15:29

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

crabcakes66 posted:

AKA "We can just hide behind the USA."

And no that's not clancy chat. That's reality.

There is European politics thread.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 18:20

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

crabcakes66 posted:

And Europe's security being underwritten by America is definitely relevant.

Why would it be relevant here, where we discuss less than a fifth of countries in Europe?

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 18:27

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

steinrokkan posted:

I don't understand how that twitter video is owning the Russians. You just reproduced their own material.

"Lol he's a mad gamer-made-blogger, who cares." *writes article-length refutal to a blog post*

E: Beaten like cooperation between Russian state institutions. :argh:

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 23:07

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

This is a counterfeit meme. Polandball famously has red on top.

That is Indonesiaball.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2016 13:42

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Chemtrail posted:

The good friend of the thread, Graham Phillips, just got arrested in Latvia.

http://www.tvnet.lv/zinas/latvija/600437-16marta_pasakumos_aizturets_kremla_blogeris_greiems_filipss

This is almost too good to be true. Quick translation would be him being a giant prick during the commemoration of Latvian Legion,, trying to incite and provoke the attendees, and to otherwise disrupt the event. Eventually got into problems with security officers, they summoned police, whom then he did also resist. He is being held by police now on the grounds of aggressive public behaviour and resisting the law enforcement officials, may get a fine and/or an administrative protocol (think of probation).

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 11:39

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Brown Moses posted:

There's a live blog here
http://www.delfi.lv/news/national/p...s.d?id=47188319

Lots of talk about Nazis etc, whats the actual story?

It's the annual remembrance day of Latvian Waffen-SS legionnaires, where couple of people take a short morning stroll to Freedom Monument to put down flowers to their dead relatives, and sometimes comrades.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 11:47

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Brown Moses posted:

Yeah, seemed journalists and protesters outnumbered participants.

They always do, soon journalists alone will do the trick. I don't remember last time I saw more than a few hundred of participants.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 11:59

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Xerxes17 posted:

The War Thunder music is a nice touch.

That's Beethoven's Symphony 7, Movement 2, by the way.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2016 09:06

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

mobby_6kl posted:

It's probably so that you don't get ran over (as often) when you're stumbling along unlit roads at night, dressed in all black. I remember hearing something similar here in CZ as well but I'm not sure if it passed or not.

It's for that purpose in Latvia, but you generally will not have anything beyond verbal warning in Latvia. Our policy prioritizes reflectors for children, since our drivers suck - there often were nation-wide reflector givewaways for school children while I was a kid etctera.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2016 18:19

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

My closest story to being fined for not wearing reflector is a drunk 2 metres tall acquaintance running with a giant wooden reflector around a local supermarket, until he got apprehended by police. He then did shortcircuit the light in the temporary detainment basement of the local police and begun to yell that he is afraid of darkness.

Dude was let go.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2016 18:50

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Murgos posted:

$441 USD... Uh, lol.

Slightly more than triple the monthly salary of one of my friends. Before tax.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2016 07:23

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

Does he work part-time? That's super low even by non-Moscow standards.

Full time, entry level factory job.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2016 10:04

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

That's depressing to hear. It's below what janitors make.
I've also just checked unemployment benefits in Russia, and the amount hasn't been changed since 2009. They range from around $12 up to $73.

Jokes on you, acquaintance's mother happens to be a janitor, and she's making even less with some ~60-70 hour work week. Life in sub-million cities in Russia can suck quite a bit.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2016 10:42

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

I-I, I just don't get it? :psypop:

Short version, Bryansk oblast have been banned from using any social networks, as well as Google Maps, Gmail, Yahoo, WhatsApp, Viber, ICQ, Skype, Google Chrome, and Safari. They've also been banned from contacting representatives of half of the companies mentioned in previous sentence.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2016 01:11

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

Only doctors for some reason.

Like, at work banning social networks kind of makes sense, I guess. But restricting browsers and messangers?

Restricting Skype while allowing Internet Explorer? Restricting ICQ while allowing Mail.ru Group?

Peak bureaucracy, I guess. Passing poo poo for the sake of it.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2016 01:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

redscare posted:

As for what's still allowed, Yandex and Mail.Ru are monitored thoroughly and everyone knows it; Chrome and Safari probably have better security than IE.

That's the thing why I say it's peak bureaucracy in my opinion - secure browsers banned, insecure - allowed; Mail.ru Group allowed, while ICQ, product of Mail.ru Group, is banned. These restrictions do not send a coherent message across, neither on their own, nor given the context.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2016 02:18

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Friendly Humour posted:

Huh, really? Wiki says nothing about it

I have never heard about this either - the closest I know of it is that huskies weren't considered a real breed in USSR since they weren't useful to transport goods.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2016 17:21

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

I've seen that story, but it was also some dog breeder's homepage with giant blue letters on black background so I will err away from this romantic and impractical story unless there are sources to prove it true.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2016 18:36

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Is it extended family or the place itself that you don't enjoy to visit, if I may ask?

# ¿ Mar 29, 2016 17:42

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

Oh yeah, throwing paint and bottles at people and calling them Jews is pretty cool, actually, because they are the REAL nazis, not people who've posted this video on the official Azov youtube channel that has a Wolfsangel symbol as its logo.

I hope this will not come of as a surprise, but both sides can be bad. No one here seems to be whitewashing Azov or cheering up the thugs. However, that alone is not going to be reason to support and uphold the ideas of picketers on their quest to prove that Ukrainian history is a science fiction; that Ukrainian nation is social construct invented by the Soviet Union.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 17:08

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Nitrox posted:

I didn't see paint and bottles, but I'm watching this on a small phone screen, so I apologize.

I just rewatched the video half a dozen times to see it for myself, and there's a single bottle (not larger than a litre, plastic from some softdrink or maybe a yoghurt, hard to tell if insides aren't coated by liquid) thrown at 0:24-0:25. It slowly flies overhead, so it most likely was empty.

Also I'm somewhat certain that it is not pure paint, the liquid they fling around seems to be much less viscous than any paint I've used in my life.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 17:14

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

Absolutely. But in my opinion their right to express those ideas should be protected all the same.

The thread consensus does not seem to contradict your, or mine opinion on this regard, even though I have mixed feelings about respecting public expression of objectively false concepts.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 17:55

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

The main purpose of this event is to commemorate the referendum where Ukrainian people voted for staying a part of USSR. Despite that, as we all know, USSR dissolved in a year. For these people, this event signifies the most dramatic event in their lives, loss of their country and their identity to some extent. I may not view it that way, but I can see why they feel how they feel, and recent events most surely don't make them feel safer.

You brought up several times how you see marches in remembrance of Latvian Legion as a way for people to remember their fallen comrades and appreciate independence of their country, even though some of the people marching might have some objectively reprehensible ideas, and I feel like there is a parallel to be drawn here. They are just old people who want to remember good old days.

Remembering good old days is one thing, feel free to go for it and I'll be glad you have it.

Another, and the only thing I make of their goals there, from the video alone, is a poster claiming Ukraine was invented by the Soviet Union, which is what I used to build my argument. In strictly that parallel, Latvian Legion day would have had people advocating that non-White people are sub-humans, in which case I would cheer up if whoever would peacefully shut them down.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 18:25

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Paladinus posted:

The poster says that Ukraine (as in its current territory) is a result of 'sovetisation and communisation', which is technically true. The point of the poster is to highlight what the author thinks is contribution of USSR in creation of independent Ukraine. It says that 'desovetisation' means that Ukrainian territory would still be divided between Russia, Poland, Romania and Hungary.

Yeah, I've read what poster says as well, and I believe that it attributes too much to the USSR and nothing to the Ukrainian people, even if we do not slip into details. I feel that notions that I believe to be expressed may be relevant here since they are in line with some of the propaganda that is being much more aggressively pushed post-revolution. In part, however, where I may as well be more mistaken than on the whole here, since the poster does not convey the idea in a clear way, I also do consider older generation to be rather gullible to such revisionism, even though anyone can be convinced of anything, just have enough effort put into it.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 20:46

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

I do not believe that there are sufficient grounds for me to arrive to your conclusion regarding the poster, Paladinus, so let's just leave it at that to avoid circular argument.

A Pale Horse posted:

Is Graham Philips out of Latvian jail yet? Maybe he registered to gently caress with BM.

He was deported day later, banned from entry for 3 years.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 23:08

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