Auspol March: Trump for Prime Minister, Clive Palmer for Deputy

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol March: Trump for Prime Minister, Clive Palmer for Deputy

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birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Grouchio posted:

So. lovely little government down under. Ive got a question for you.

What's baking you harder? Your summer outback sun? Or your Chinese dependencies lighting themselves on fire?

Heres a better question: are you ready for a bad time?

it's Autumn now. I like Autumn.

dumbarse

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 06:34

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:47

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

flux is just a somehow dumber version of Senator On Line which has been making GBS threads up your senate ballots for years, there's no new magic here

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 11:35

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

3 day weekend party or gtfo

# ¿ Mar 2, 2016 05:48

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

MysticalMachineGun posted:

If this party actually exists I'm voting 1 now and forever

I remember it being on the ballot in the 2004 federal election, haven't seen it since

# ¿ Mar 2, 2016 08:29

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

So I see the Libs have hosed up their latest brainfarted scare against the ALP negative gearing policy, claiming business investment will dive.

This argument is idiotic because businesses _{_{_generally}} don't get the CGT discount to make up for it. For business, "negative gearing" actually means "making a loving loss."

Try again Malcolm.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 11:19

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 21:08

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

0 day history and one dumb post likely a troll

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 08:28

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

there hasn't been a reason to feel optimistic as a change from withiner since Rudd Mk1

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 08:49

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

don't argue with influx

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 10:32

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

With hindsight regarding the carbon tax repeal, reduction of the RET, gutting of the renewable energy sector, LNP crusade against wind farms and shitshow of direct action policy, do you still knock back the CPRS?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 21:56

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

jfc this place is easy to troll

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 23:55

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

I would gladly take f-35s if we could rid ourselves of first dog

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 08:45

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Milky Moor posted:

just because you lot are a bunch of sickos doesn't mean everyone is m8

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 09:53

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

milku is right, I would do some hosed up poo poo to pisscat

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 10:47

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

if anything we need chinese protection from amerikka

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 23:34

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Box Hill Strangler posted:

I guess its been long enough since an IWC rereg that everyone forgot the signs.

not subtle enough to be iwc imo

# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 06:11

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Malcolm Turnbull is right. It is an exciting time to be alive. Tony Abbott has been white-anting Malcolm's tenuous grip on power, then he likely leaked some classified documents, so Turnbull's people have hit back with the Abbott-Credlin affair claim, which is now being vehemently denied. Meanwhile, the LNP backbench is supporting the bullying of gay students as a way to astroturf against the marriage equality plebiscite that the High Court said we do not need. All of this swirling before our very eyes in the most public of matters. The Coalition is in chaos.

Surprisingly, the catalyst for the current chaos is that most captivating and inspiring human endeavours: taxation policy.
You see, back when the government was riding high in the polls, some of the Coalition bright sparks decided that raising the GST rate might be a good idea because... I don't know. I don't really have an explanation why the same people who profess a love for smaller government and who ran the 2013 election on a platform of repealing a "great big new tax on everything" decided that trying to impose an even greater, bigger new tax on everything was a good idea.

There was an expectedly little amount of support for raising the GST while other fairer and more targeted measures of revenue raising went unexplored. With their single idea shot down however, the Coalition threw its hands up and looked into further tax reform the same way Ned Flanders' parents looked into discipline - they tried nothing and were all out of ideas.

It is at this time that the Coalition's policy of being "sitting ducks" led to them being blindsided and broadsided by that famous admiral of good politicking... Bill Shorten?

While Malcolm Turnbull was twiddling is thumbs like Homer Simpson waiting for a meteorite, the ALP surprised everyone with a coherent and rational policy restricting negative gearing to new houses and reducing the CGT discount.

What does this mean? In a nutshell, negative gearing involves borrowing to invest in property such that the rental income received is less than your rental expenses. This creates a tax loss which can be used to reduce tax paid on other sources of income such as wages.

In Australia, individuals making a capital gain on the sale of an investment property are only taxed on 50% of the capital gain they make. This is the "CGT discount."

It is presently a viable investment strategy in Australia to negatively gear your investment in property (ie make a rental loss) to take advantage of that property's capital growth which is taxed at a reduced rate upon sale. You're effectively betting that the profit you make on the sale of the property at a future point is enough to offset the rental losses you make in the interim (which have the present benefit of reducing your tax bill).

This tax policy setting encourages speculative investment in property, creating the kind of capital growth necessary for the investment strategy to be viable. It also artificially inflates the value of housing and supports some absurd levels of price increases in places like Sydney.

The proposed change to negative gearing applies restricts it to new properties from 2017 and raises $32 billion over ten years. This is a great policy which will make it easier for young people to eventually purchase their own houses. It's going to take a good deal speculative investment out of the housing market. It's such a good policy that I didn't believe the ALP came up with it.

(Compare the tax policy to Labor's education policy, titled "Your Child, Our Future." I don't know what the policy means. I don't know what it accomplishes. I think it means restoring the planned Gonski funding, but I'm not entirely sure. All the hallmarks of a policy the ALP came up with itself.)

The fact is that The Greens actually came up with the negative gearing reforms before the 2015 budget (the CGT discount appears to be an ALP original concept, albeit one that I've talked about for years). But no matter, good policy is good policy. The smart move for the government was to itself copy what is widely regarded as a sound policy proposal. Alternatively, they could have attacked the plan by saying that the policy doesn't go too far enough, and proposing to legislate a more forceful solution. After all, the Coalition has spent years talking up how much repair the federal finances need.

This in fact was the initial response from Turnbull and Scott Morrison to Labor's policy announcement. was said that Labor's proposal didn't raise enough money, and maybe that's true. After all, government net debt has increased from $161.1 billion in 2013 (under the Rudd government) to $254.8 billion as of a couple of months ago. Indeed, the Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook projects that government net debt will increase to $300 billion in 3 years. In such circumstances, maybe the CGT discount should be lower, and maybe negative gearing should be removed from all houses.

Alas, the housing industry made known its displeasure, and Malcolm decided against coming up with a more effective policy than the ALP. Instead, the Coalition came up with a series of increasingly desperate and farfetched reasons to pour cold water on what is widely regarded as a sound proposal. In the process, Turnbull and Morrison have absolutely shattered whatever was left of their credibility handling economic matters.

Scare Campaign No. 1: "The housing market will crash" WRONG
The housing market won't crash because there is strong underlying demand in major population centres. The proposed reforms discourage speculative investment, but the continued availability of cheap credit, growing population and infrastructure in major urban centres will support prices for some time. Prices are unlikely to rise at the insane rate of the last five years, which is good for young prospective buyers, but the market won't crash, which is good for owners and the building industry.
Scare Campaign No. 2: "House prices will go up" WRONG-ISH
This is what Kelly O'Dwyer said after completely misreading the LNP talking points. It is indeed possible that in the run up to say July 2017, speculators cause a short-term rise in the price of existing dwellings to take advantage of the grandfathering provisions. But then they fall. Suffice to say, this strategy was quickly swept under the rug.
Scare Campaign No. 3: "Businesses will stop investing"
SO WRONG IT HURTS
The last, desperate ploy tried on by Malcolm was to try and link the removal of negative gearing of housing to businesses no longer negatively gearing their business assets. This is a ridiculously dumb argument because companies don't negatively gear as an investment strategy because they can't take advantage of the CGT discount. When Malcolm is talking about businesses "negatively gearing," he actually means "making a loving loss." That's an insane business strategy and a testament to what kind of a shambles the government is in.

Remember why this issue became prominent in the first place. The proposed reforms are a means of addressing the housing market, which many young people feel locked out of. It's also a means of addressing a structural problem in the budget.
But what would the Coalition know about economic management? Since taking power, the Liberal government has added $90 billion to government net debt. This is a debt-and-deficit disaster of their own making.

This is a government which wanted to charge for doctor appointments, but didn't want to fix negative gearing or other tax lurks for the wealthy.

This is a government which, stealing a policy idea directly from the Simpsons, introduced a "temporary budget repair levy" which remains in effect for two years. Yet they won't fix negative gearing.

This is a government which wanted to have a greater, bigger new 15% GST rate on everything, but won't cut subsidies to multinational fossil fuel producers.

Even when the government was contemplating measures to raise revenue, it was simultaneously looking to fritter that money away. Scott Morrison, a man who somehow makes Joe Hockey look like Ross Gittins, proposed that the extra revenue from an increased GST be handed back to wealthier Australians by making higher income tax brackets kick in later. This would be done ostensibly to reduce "bracket creep."

The problem with this proposal is that bracket creep is absolutely not a problem right now. Inflation has stalled, wages have stalled, people's incomes are growing at one of the slowest rates in history. Bracket creep isn't the problem, the government having zero clue and zero credibility on economic management is the problem.

The policies the government wants to enact are garbage and won't be tolerated by the public. The policies they should enact would make the economy fairer and won't be tolerated by LNP donors. Malcolm Turnbull has this painted himself into a corner. It has nothing to offer except empty platitudes which sound "exciting" or "agile," while the government remains the complete opposite.

In fields such economics, health, infrastructure, industry, communications - the government lacks any kind of accomplishment.
I guess we're getting some submarines we probably don't need, but even the government's own members can't agree on how these should be acquired.

Surely Malcolm is the right man to steer the government through this maelstrom. After all, so many people on the left professed to like Malcolm despite the party he belongs to.

Your trust is misplaced. Malcolm Turnbull is a loser. He has a long history of losing. He lost the republic debate. He lost as opposition leader. He lost the ability to improve the NBN. He lost the argument to legislate marriage equality in his own party room. He has lost all claim to being a good economic manager.

For reasons which include more luck than skill, he may yet hold on at the coming election. But he has lost the fig-leaf of competence and his veneer of authority. All that remains is a run-of-the-mill conman, a smooth talker in a leather jacket.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 13:14

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Radar glitch requires F-35 fighter jet pilots to turn it off and on again

# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 20:39

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

punitive measures against government supported people in an economy designed not to have 100% employment AND based on consumption (with the unemployed spending more of their payments) seems counterproductive as gently caress

# ¿ Mar 9, 2016 05:06

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

I would pay a basic income to never see fdotm again

# ¿ Mar 9, 2016 22:31

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

I read the "utterly useless" thing in the context of "insecure subsistence" as going to JSA appointments.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2016 03:08

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

##vote Negligent
get lynched scumbo

# ¿ Mar 10, 2016 03:15

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

gay picnic defence posted:

Why do Labor people get so salty when the Greens do a preference deal with the tories? Have the ALP never done a deal with the LNP?

sounds like the greens are changing from within

# ¿ Mar 10, 2016 12:20

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Anidav posted:

Did some Goon finally create Anidav Simulator? I think someone was making it and had some opening scenarios all written up and that link reminds me of that hilarious little project.

it's not about you anidav

# ¿ Mar 11, 2016 21:13

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Graic Gabtar posted:

If I'm on that again it would be a sad indictment on you all as I didn't even post last month.

Birdstrike posted:

it's not about you anidav

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 07:56

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Ian Winthorpe III posted:

In fact, the snarky and meaningless whattaboutery you just posted is another piece rhetorical detritus caused by the aggressive juvenility of the Critical-Politainment Complex.

much like your podcast

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 21:16

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

iajanus posted:

The only way I'd accept splitting Queensland into 2 states is if they only collectively have the same number of senators as they do now, split proportionately. By my estimates (231,628 people in NQ, 280,638 in FNQ, 4.691 mil in the state) that'll give them about 1.2 senators for their entire new state.

Seems like a pretty good arrangement for them

Of course that does depend on where we draw the line; for simplicity I drew it at North and Far North Qld from

we all know the answer is

# ¿ Mar 14, 2016 02:06

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

"I saw some glitter now I'm depressed" - a conservative

# ¿ Mar 14, 2016 07:33

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

open24hours posted:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/15/bill-shorten-commits-labor-to-full-employment-goal

It would be pretty incredible if the ALP actually did commit to full employment. Would make them slightly more difficult to hate at least.

~~AMERICA~~ AUSTRALIA WORKS

FUGM 2016

# ¿ Mar 14, 2016 23:31

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

open24hours posted:

And boring.

yes what I am really looking forward to is more pisscat.txt

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 01:49

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Graic Gabtar posted:

drown all refugees imo

Graic Gabtar posted:

my feelings

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 05:59

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

evilelmo are you van badham?

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 10:46

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Solemn Sloth posted:

Oh gently caress you birdstrike

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 10:52

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Did anyone else catch this on 7.30 last night:

quote:

LEIGH SALES: Let's get you to flesh out a bit more detail on some things you touched on today. One thing is that you said Labor is committed to trying to take the economy to full employment. What percentage unemployment do you consider to be full employment?

BILL SHORTEN: [waffle]

LEIGH SALES: And so what would be your target for the unemployment rate?

BILL SHORTEN: Five per cent.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 20:16

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Cartoon posted:

I'm a radical anarcho-socialist, which superfund should I be in?

put your money in the grid

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 08:04

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Anidav posted:

International students have been offered casual employment at just $50 per day, well less than half the Australian minimum wage, to campaign on behalf of a Liberal National Party councillor in the lead-up to Saturday's poll.

Workers manning prepoll booths for Macgregor councillor Steven Huang's campaign have been paid $50 a day for what was advertised as eight hours' casual work.

A post seeking workers for the LNP campaign was sent to members of UQ Focus, a group for Christian international students at the University of Queensland with a high proportion of Chinese-speaking members.

Written in Mandarin and independently translated by Fairfax Media, the message clearly set out it would be a "casual job" and outlined the pay conditions.

"Casual job assisting councillor distribute Monday to Friday until the 19th [of March], 9-5pm, $50 per day. Contact if interested," the recruiter's message read.

Fairfax Media has also seen text messages sent from Cr Huang's phone, also in Mandarin, between him and a campaign worker.

Campaign worker: "Hey brother, I couldn't get [name removed] she is not picking up the calls. Is [name removed] going to this place on Monday?"

Cr Huang: "Yes, thank you."

The campaign worker then sent the address of a pre-poll location in Macgregor.

Cr Huang: "Yes."

Campaign worker: "This Friday I pay him $50 per day right?"

Cr Huang: "Yes."

The Australian minimum wage, as set by the Fair Work Commission, is $17.29 per hour, with a 25 per cent casual loading.

That meant workers should be paid a minimum of $172.90 for a full eight-hour day's work.

However, in practice, most election campaign workers were volunteers and provided their time free of charge, because they believed in the cause.

Unions and other vested interests have been known to provide paid staff to political campaigns, the unions primarily to the Labor Party.

Comment was sought from Cr Huang, who did not return Fairfax Media's calls.

However, an LNP campaign spokeswoman denied the councillor's involvement.

"This is not Cr Huang's advertisement and is not endorsed by Team Quirk," she said.

"Cr Huang is not offering any payments for electioneering."

Labor lord mayoral candidate Rod Harding's campaign declined an offer to comment.

Cr Huang faces two challengers in his bid to retain Macgregor � Labor's Tom Huang (no relation) and the Greens' Patsy O'Brien.

Taiwan-born Cr Huang was appointed to the council in 2011, when Macgregor was vacated by then-deputy mayor Graham Quirk.

Cr Quirk was appointed lord mayor after Campbell Newman resigned to pursue his short-lived state political career, which saw him become premier but lose government within a single term.

Anidav you should take this job offer, it sounds better than what you're doing now.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 20:04

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

How does the ABCC bill tie in to all of this?

# ¿ Mar 17, 2016 20:49

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

From what I understand it would have been far more coherent for labor to say "we have to delay senate voting because the Libs will use a DD to pass the ABCC (which the Greens don't support)" then whatever the gently caress happened this week

# ¿ Mar 17, 2016 23:30

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

EvilElmo posted:

Interesting how none of your failed attacks on the Greens this week considered any of this, or indeed the bigger picture.

The ALP supported the report recommending above the line OPV. They supported the abolition of GVTs.

Obviously the reforms are an issue for the cross-bench senators. In the face of the LNP and Greens supporting the senate voting reforms, the ALP decided to make a song and dance about how they no longer support the reforms. Maybe this helps them in negotiations with the cross-bench on other issues. You may consider this "playing politics."

Added to this, the LNP sought the ABCC as a DD trigger, which the Greens don't support. So now the Greens might be kind of stuck in supporting what is independently a good measure, but one which would allow the government to probably pass a bad measure.

Instead of even considering this, EvilElmo, you and the other party hacks jumped immediately to childish name-calling, which is unbecoming to everybody and only serves to highlight the shallowness of your intellect.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2016 00:11

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:47

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

EvilElmo posted:

Stopped reading after this.

The ALP didnt support it. The member on the committee supported it. The party room voted against it. I believe only 1 member supported it in the party room.

If you cant get the basics right, why should I read the rest?

The report was unanimous and the committee had 4 ALP members on it.

Try again, idiot.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2016 00:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol March: Trump for Prime Minister, Clive Palmer for Deputy

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