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dispatch_async posted:Supposedly by ordering Apple to do so: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/investigatory-powers-bill-and-apple yeah but they still physically can't do it, and if they aren't going to make Amazon pay tax they sure as gently caress won't arrest Tim Cook for something that they aren't going to be able to get anyone to say is possible. "We want to start recording all your data by secretly inserting code into your phones" is gibberish unless they actually have a method to do so, which they do not.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:50
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Then we have the issue of whether or not they're capable of understanding all the metadata they want. Sure, large corporates can build profiles for people buying and selling things, but Big Data is still in the babysteps of understanding large-scale economic activity on a national level. If they want to start profiling protesters and terrorists, they're going to find out very rapidly the same thing sociology and psychology already knows; they don't exist as a seperate definable group. This government is having a lot of fun playing spy games but frankly they very clearly don't have a clue what they're doing, and we're supposed to be scared of a theresa may-backed bill after watching the hilarity of her attempting to define "drugs" as anything but "things my sort of white people shouldnt do"? She's evil, but she's not competent. She only kills people through stupidity.
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Mar 1, 2016 16:54
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Renaissance Robot posted:I get the very strong impression that legislators (and apparently also the FBI) believe that Apple are just being coy/evasive, because God knows if they were building a communications system they'd ram that fucker full of secret backdoors! (a thing gchq really did, iirc) GCHQ have the ability to eavesdrop on world leaders and, with that, do roughly gently caress all. I'm not an Adam Curtis fan generally but Bugger is certainly a worthwhile read, more for the examples given than the whole "Britain's never caught a spy" thing. Of course they're all paranoid lunatics. They're conservatives. That is what the word entails. I'm still far less concerned about them stamping their feet than I am on, say, the impact of an increase in violence and funding for Somalian gangs that the Khat ban opens a door to. Scion3872 posted:Zoom out a bit, there's an event organised for Saudi Arabia. Not sure how that works. Very Ethnically
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Mar 1, 2016 17:09
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Guavanaut posted:I'm not sure. I've heard that one a lot as part of Empire apologia in the form of "if Britain hadn't joined the scramble for Africa then France or Belgium would have just taken those countries and they were even worse" etc. and it doesn't really sit right with me. aside from giving the tories the power to scrap the human rights act I'd also like all my eastern european friends to not be deported and replaced with returning "expats" who will probably not be labour voters.
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Mar 2, 2016 11:45
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Oberleutnant posted:loooooooooooool NOT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY I hope they all die. Ober, stop getting probated in GBS. mehall posted:Which country was it that had set up a national wage for everyone? 5 year Pilot scheme in a state of Canada showing 93% continued employment and the dropouts were almost entirely parenting voted on and denied by the Swiss, gently caress the Swiss.
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Mar 2, 2016 18:00
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haha remember when the dartford crossing paid for itself and is now free and dartcharge isn't real gently caress essex, it's full of the white flight. e; there are some good essex in this thread who I am fond of but you must understand the greater good
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Mar 2, 2016 19:31
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If we can compare the migration patterns observed in the White Flight, driven by a desire to stay away from black people and keep your house price, and the migration pattern of The European Migrant Crisis, which should be properly named gently caress, We Didnt Bomb All Of Them, we come to a simple solution involving trident launches to create a massive tidal wave, wash essex clean, and settle All The Migrants there. This is the most absolutely Correct opinion imo XMNN posted:has there ever been a toll that was supposed to pay for the construction costs that got cancelled? do the Mersey Tunnels stalk you online and send you automatic penalty notices three days after crossing a bridge should you not use their deliberately broken website?
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Mar 2, 2016 19:35
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Renfield posted:Whelp, I post here sometimes, so I thought I just share that after moving from the dystopian hell that is the Medway Towns in North Kent to Cardiff in Gods Own Country... I'm much happier, everyone is friendly and, after a whole 3 weeks of looking and One interview, I've got a job here. I reckon you could do a decent remake of blade runner in chatham
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Mar 2, 2016 20:34
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Namtab posted:Can't you walk or cycle? not over water, lad
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Mar 2, 2016 22:29
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at least if xenophobia wins we get to see a massively underskilled Europe tear itself to shreds and lie ruined by the dominance of China, India and Brazil during the great food and antibiotic shortages to come the moral victory is ours, comrades
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Mar 2, 2016 23:12
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Rakosi posted:For example, the British Empire is, I think now, far enough behind us in history that no one can expect current Britain to be releasing monies or much more than very general apologies for the fact. if you're stupid enough to believe this then we can't really help you with that, but please do enjoy the luxuries of life you've inherited and thus definitely not stolen from other people. Assuming you typed this on a phone, you are responsible for the deaths of thousands of children in phillipino alluminium mines. Welcome to the very basics of how an economy actually works. The real world is not pleasant.
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Mar 4, 2016 16:13
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It's not like the British army murdered and imprisoned anyone here's relatives or anything except mine obviously
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Mar 4, 2016 16:14
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"the mass rape and plunder of hundreds of countries doesn't need to be addressed financially, come on guys, it was over 30 years ago" - a poster in this thread
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Mar 4, 2016 16:16
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But thank you Rakosi for demonstrating exactly why proper historical context and causation should be taught and addressed, you loving idiot
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Mar 4, 2016 16:17
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Tesseraction posted:Ireland should stop whining about the IRA vs. Loyalists, it's like, 25 years ago mang. A good specific answer to Rakosi is "yes, we loving well can expect you to continue "special circumstance" repayments to the Northern Irish, and Northern Ireland is very unhappy the tories are trying to stop them, and it nearly reignited The Troubles" You don't walk into someone's house, loot them, take a poo poo on the carpet, stab the breadwinner, sell everything you've stolen and say "but guys, it was in the past. The fact you think you owe nothing to victims of English Imperialism is not an argument in your favour. It just means you're an idiot.
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Mar 4, 2016 16:23
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Rakosi posted:Here's the kicker, dickwad, everything you just said you don't actually believe yourself. You're full of unrealistic moralistic bullshit. If you actually thought people who use their smartphones are actually responsible for the deaths of thousands of Filipino children who worked in mines, then why are you not leading a campaign to get us all actually prosecuted in actual courts? Because we aren't, I know it, you know it, but it's a easy political highroad to take. Get to gently caress you nasty piece of poo poo. The fact we can't organise a prosecution is entirely because of leading political points like the one that started the argument. On the other hand, actual repayments to colonial countries exist, will continue to exist, and should continue to exist.
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Mar 4, 2016 16:25
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Rakosi posted:So regardless of whether or not it is possible, you actually want to prosecute everyone in Britain that uses smartphones, then? No, your argument about buddhist suffering is quoting the wrong religion but generally correct in an inability to implicate guilt on a personal level. You argued the British Government owes nothing to the victims of colonialist empire. How on earth do you think we're in an economic position to inflict economic hardship in the first place? e; or to the point, prosecute exploitation. But then, doing this in a system of economic liberalism is pretty hard, given that children in need ended up accidentally supporting child arms trade a year or two back. This doesn't mean it's not our problem. For you, this is about moralism. You directly argued that Britain, and yourself, owe nothing for the murder of my family members 35 years ago. You owe nothing for the imprisonments in the H blocks. You owe nothing for the hunger strikes. You don't get a choice in being morally culpable. Personal responsibility isn't real. Collective responsibility is. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 16:29
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Rakosi posted:Yes I do. I am not morally culpable. Your quality of life is enabled purely by exploitation. You and I both exist because our societies exploit those we used to invade. It's not a discussion, it's you arguing that society doesn't exist. e; while using Germany, a country that actively addresses it's history in exactly the way you're disagreeing with, as an example Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 16:47
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Cerebral Bore posted:I am not morally culpable because I, personally, do not crack the whip in the Bangladeshi slave factory that produces the clothes I wear - a Liberal he literally said this about the aluminium mines so idk how to even parody it
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Mar 4, 2016 16:51
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Rakosi posted:You keep saying that on one hand no individual can or should be prosecuted for this, that it is a collective responsibility and not an individual responsibility. And, in contradiction, you said that I, me, personally, am individually and morally responsible for the deaths of thousands of Filipino children. No, I said individual responsibility does not exist in this context. You and I are both responsible because we partake in a society that not only allows it but exists solely because of it. If society is immoral, then enabling society cannot be without responsibility. Thus all coppers/landlords/tories are bastards. There is no freedom from culpability. Our phones are no different to our clothes in the sense that we are wearing and communicating through immoral labour. My anger at you is because you genuinely argued that we're removed from the Empire and thus don't carry it's crimes or owe reconciliation and economic subsidy. That's flat out reprehensible, as well as simply not factually true.
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Mar 4, 2016 16:57
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just to make sure, are you aware that Britain continues to economically subsidise Northern Ireland as a direct reconciliation made to the institutional discrimination against Catholics, funding of Loyalist terror groups, and responsibility for the troubles? And that this economic subsidy, when attacked by the tories, caused such just outrage that it nearly brought down Stormont and would have re-established direct Westminster rule over Northern Ireland? I'm talking the last two years here. There is a duty of repayment because a lovely little island that doesn't grow it's own food didn't become a major player in the modern economic environment because everyone bought the King James bible and all of Shakespeare's works. It got there through exploitation. This exploitation has not stopped; the argument on phones and clothes. It's absolutely abhorrent to hear someone say "Britain owes nothing". It's a complete refusal to confront reality and history. Which is exactly what this conversation is about; Britain burying it's 20th century.
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Mar 4, 2016 17:03
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Rakosi posted:Counterpoint, go gently caress yourself. Who said I was talking about India? Projecting a little here? rakosi where do you think buddhism comes from
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Mar 4, 2016 17:11
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Guavanaut posted:I read it more as "even people who thought the Earth was the center of everything figured out that suffering exists past the individual. No they murdered the people who worked out suffering was a constant and then stole the idea into their religion Karma isn't something the buddhists invented, it's a Jainist idea, and they were a bunch of peace loving hippies who got merk'd Rakosi posted:What normally happens in this thread when I post is that people will harangue and harass until the whole line of conversation, and original point of disagreement, is lost in a field of shitposting. Reminder that the vast majority of this argument sprung from this; "suffering exists everywhere, except for when I make it happen" collective responsibility is still here, I have no need to retract the point. e; so I put it back in for emphasis Spangly A fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 4, 2016 |
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Mar 4, 2016 17:32
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Rakosi posted:And I'm going to keep bringing it up until it is addressed/defended by people in this thread who are insisting I am wrong and/or evil. Because otherwise it gets lost in the chaff, as usual. Rakosi posted:These people with very little practical knowledge of the world seem to have a more complete moralistic understanding of human responsibility of suffering than the millennial tumblr outrage that Spangly A is exhibiting. I lost family in loyalist bombings, you bet I'm pretty outraged when people say there's nobody left to remember Empire. I want the ministers involved to hang. We don't even get a loving confession. Defend your pathetic detachment.
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Mar 4, 2016 17:42
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Rakosi posted:Am I responsible for the deaths of thousands of Filipino children? Yes, everyone is. Rakosi posted:For example, the British Empire is, I think now, far enough behind us in history that no one can expect current Britain to be releasing monies or much more than very general apologies for the fact. You are one of the worse examples. You do nothing to address the suffering you cause. You would be a bad buddhist of most sects. JFairfax posted:The Philippines was to do with the American Empire though? True, but we still let them sell phones. At least Samsung tried to fix it when someone told them where they were getting the stuff 
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Mar 4, 2016 17:48
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I agree entirely with Baka Kaba's post and I imagine it's a much better explanation of collective responsibility than what I've so far put together, but ironically through buddhist teachings I'm pretty firmly attached to universal guilt and the role of karma in social responsibility from ground-up everyone reading this thread and feeling themselves aligned with rakosi pls read that one
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Mar 4, 2016 17:56
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I agree with Rachel Moran, abolish free market economics, introduce mincome on top of a socialist government structure, sex work only for the economically freeRakosi posted:You (Spangly A, and co.) do not get to use words like "culpability" and "responsibility" without contention. Be as discontent as you wish, you're using the word wrong.
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Mar 4, 2016 18:20
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JFairfax posted:LOL every one of you fuckers is guilty as hell of exploiting people, loving Spangly A your drugs support all manner of awful people so don't be lecturing that dirty pimp about child slaves. are we talking about me being a recovered drug addict or are we talking about the medical treatments that keep me alive because I can't really boycott nestle without dying
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Mar 4, 2016 18:22
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Rakosi posted:Agree completely. what? so do I where is the problem then
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Mar 4, 2016 18:24
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JFairfax posted:there's a difference between protesting and haranguing someone that they're literally killing children when you're trying to have a discussion. I used that example because it got a shitload of people pissed off a while back and Samsung actually traced their sources and dropped all involved suppliers. For whatever bastardry they're probably still up to as your standard mega-corporate, in the future it won't be that. That is a change. Whoever keeps planting English messages in Fenwicks socks is probably trying the same thing.
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Mar 4, 2016 18:51
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Rakosi posted:Seriously? yes seriously if you own a samsung you are personally exempt, why would I pick an example where the only answer is "well we're all hosed" and yes I believe that it's more likely angry employees at a shipping store are writing messages in English to put in socks than the kids that make them overseas
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Mar 4, 2016 18:55
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Fans posted:That's a bold claim to make. It's an especially bold claim to make from a country where it is a) illegal and b) having massive child sex ring scandals so often we struggle to tell them apart. But expert advice doesn't seem to matter to anyone, and it's bloody disappointing when you consider that any feminist should be regarded as a natural ally to the advancement of legal treatment of all people. It's incredible how quick FYGM sets in for people like Bindel.
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Mar 4, 2016 19:39
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outsource workfare to India
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Mar 5, 2016 13:41
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Steve2911 posted:I say it most days, but the Mail hit a new low today. people in the UK are really, really uncomfortable about organ donation. My mother just signed up and told us all as per the advice, joining the rest of us as donors. She's still absolutely adamant that we personally must "make sure she's dead" first, because "you just don't know" I'm pretty sure Doctors know if you're dead but IANAD. Think of it like this: the Mail are finally accepting bodily autonomy, and now they're blaming someone else for imaginary nonsense that might happen because of it.
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Mar 6, 2016 11:52
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Guavanaut posted:They should give people an incentive bonus to sign up. tbh I'd rather we went for an opt-out system that ticks over at the age of 18. Children will need either capacity or guardian consent, adults should understand that we can't quite grow full organs in a lab for transplant use yet. This also means the NHS doesn't need to end up losing a bunch of usable organs as mourning families sue to block the deceased's expressed wishes. They either get used, burnt, or eaten by worms. I've personally never heard any non-religious objections that pass basic reasoning, it's always along the lines of "the doctors will have an incentive to kill people!", as if dealing with the public wasn't incentive enough.
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Mar 6, 2016 13:51
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Guavanaut posted:Things that are better than the current derail: it's not even slightly believable, everyone knows that newcastle fans can take horses. no way a zebra could mount one.
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Mar 6, 2016 20:10
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Guavanaut posted:Decrim stops us throwing users in prison but it still restricts their avenues for purchase or manufacture to criminal enterprise. Legalization allows the government to mandate quality controls, ban advertising, keep sale away from schools and in licensed premises, and I can't see it causing any more use than decriminalization, which has so far not turned the whole of Portugal into a gigantic crack den. Portugal proves that legalisation drives down drug use, Switzerland proves that drug prescription drives down addiction and all associated crime and desocialisation prescribe weed errday
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Mar 6, 2016 21:46
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V. Illych L. posted:sex work legislation is, imo, one of those topics that it's entirely possible to have a profound disagreement where both parties are reflected, well-intentioned and reasonably well-informed people we could legislate and control in a best case scenario but it's just not going to work while the police are still as much of a societal problem as they are now
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Mar 6, 2016 23:06
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Oberleutnant posted:I don't think it's a problem of administration or infrastructure, just a problem of getting 70 or 300 million people to keep up with the sheer volume of poo poo the government does on a daily basis (locally, regionally, and nationally) and take an active interest. I'm not saying it's a reason not to do it, it's just a difficult element. technocracy + direct democratic and recall power in a constitution is the smooth tasting blend of freedom Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, did our mortgage-backed stuff go boom in 2007/8, or was that just the hilariously under-regulated interaction between the American housing and banking sectors that hosed everything up for everything else? London was selling utter shite, it was the idiot Americans who got caught holding the bag when it went off. Then everyone realised they, too, were holding terrible bags. Toxic mortgages were a problem, the scale and depth of the problem was due to it being global. No way out, essentially.
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Mar 7, 2016 13:12
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all the bankers I know are coke abusing alcoholics with serious personal issues and not one of them trained in finance or econ, it's the strangest industry
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Mar 7, 2016 14:30
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