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We (EXE leadership) decided that we'd finally had enough of the Imperium pretty much the moment confused grunts came running from the fireside asking about where the imperium was going when everyone had just been told a week ago that once again a counter offensive was just win win winning and PB was gonna be just the start once again (also Horde was gonna be dead any day now, as usual). Being in the CFC was amazing, because communication and coordination between alliances was great on all levels of leadership, and if some allies needed some help and/or prodding to communicate, GSF had people who did that thankless job. Being in the Imperium was just frustrating and burned out all our leadership, because we literally spent more than a year trying to talk the Imperium leadership to accept that Fozziesov significantly changed how much space we'd be able to hold, amongst other issues; but everyone chose to just bury their heads in the sands and point to "wins" over idiot shitler mini-invasions or aborted campaigns in providence as evidence that there was nothing to fear. Lots has been said about how terrible or not some of the allies have been, but the matter of fact is, that the blueprint for how we lost this war was foreseeable with the release of the fozziesov patch notes, and it's vastly hypocritical to blame allies for anything when GSF leadership literally said hilarious things like "we can hold pure blind simply by power projection from deklein no further action required" and then proceeded to nearly lose it a lot of it to MOA long before the full MBC train got rolling, and had to accept the reality of ADM fleets; everytime some random lowsec invasion of SMA space was beat back with a lot more cringeworthy morale posts and imperium help, the official imperium party line would take this as a sign of how invulnerable we are and come up with amazing concepts like vice royalties; and basically we created the MBC through our own hubris and all the blood in the water that we sprayed from our amputated limbs while shouting "it's just a flesh wound". GSF more than happily accepted that alliances like SMA or FCON would buy every dumb propaganda point without any questions right up until the momentum shifted within a few weeks, don't be surprised then when these alliances react upset at the sudden onset of reality. At the moment, it seems GSF is healthy enough as an alliance, they gained a lot of numbers from the rest of the imperium and have enough active leadership to keep things running, and on their own they can easily carve out some good space unless the MBC spend the  to follow them, which seem unlikely (which is why we made the proposal to go to delve like two months ago already  ). As long as they don't make the mistake of overextending themselves again, the Imperium will probably do fine. Coalition life though, at this point, seem non-existant, as an ally, you can't keep your people logging in when life in the imperium as non-gsf member basically only offers drawbacks. The only reason for us to come along to Delve would have been desire for easy carebear space, so we told everyone to join GSF directly if that's where their priorities lie, and decided to arrange a reset after a period of conscious uncoupling. It's working great so far, random GSF people have been trying to recruit all of my cyno alts already.
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Jul 26, 2016 11:35
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Zephyrine posted:I'm sure this is all very accurate And GSF were happy with that as long as FCON leadership was docile and believed everything they were told, soo
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Jul 26, 2016 12:17
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Helicon One posted:Under Fozziesov and jump fatigue mechanics the Deep North where FCON and RAZOR lived was turbofucked the second anyone mounted anything like a serious challenge on our space. I completely get why they didn't want to move all their poo poo to Saranen but not doing so until it was way too late ended up costing them a shitload of supercaps and assets on their very own trail of tears. FCON put up some heroic defenses up in Branch where they beat off the MBC on timers* by just piling insane amounts of people into systems early at a time when the rest of the imperium wasn't winning a single important timer anywhere anymore, usually coming with too little too late. Staying in Branch could have worked out for them if they had had enough smarts to a) start evacuating assets they didn't need for a defense up there early (which they might have done, idk) and b) watch their dumb super pilots and make sure that they didn't try to evacuate on the insanely stupid deklein route that required gate jumps into a region no one was gonna protect anyway and went for the longer, but perfectly safe venal route where every dangerous jump could be done via cyno into empty systems. We moved a few dozen supers into venal at the same exact time that FCON was losing theirs in Y-19. Considering how tenacious FCON where at jumping every single one of their supers through that loving gate I can only assume, too, that this was a "strategy" given by their leadership, most likely some sort of panicked "you have 48 hours to get out into deklein but please only jump when its safe" followed by a quick hiding in the closet. * without these wins, they would have lost even more CSAA etc. than they already did
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Jul 26, 2016 18:14
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vulvamancer posted:I don't know if this guy is actually EXE leadership as he purports to be but if it is it shows why a lot of our allies would have put themselves in a bad position if left to their own devices. If the Imperium had tried to moved to Delve 2 months ago when the MBC was still in a froth and hadn't set down any roots it would have been a disaster. First off consider how hard this move op has been with no resistance and a relatively easy time to extract titans from Deklein/elsewhere. Imagine if MBC including PL and Test had been fully camping our staging and had dictors everywhere + we didn't have an online citadel network. The difference between starting to talk about a plan of an exit to Delve two months ago (which would not have meant moving right away, duh) with everyone on board feeling good about the whole thing and what you ended up doing right now with not even discussing the option in the six people autocrats slack and then refusing to even talk about "minor" details like where the gently caress allies might want to put safe towers etc for days after the announcement is not that the MBC would have been more likely to follow, it would just have saved everyone a few weeks of pointless hair pulling over more squandered time with absolutely zero communication or coordination in these last offensives in pure blind and whatnot.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:06
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Syndic Thrass posted:Lol if you think you're space important but didn't know or couldn't find out. I had a whole cyno chain up with towers and cyno caches on the way the morning after the "were moving somewhereTM" announcement That's great for you, but known awesomeman Wibla from this very thread was pulling his hair out over no one not wanting to divulge any information, even in private convos, for days. General destination, sure. Any useful details, no. So I guess you're even more awesome. EXE had already made the decision to not even bother anymore so who knows, maybe if we had tried, it would have turned out we are the most space important of all?
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Jul 26, 2016 21:43
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Elsa posted:Without people attacking the space you occupy, claims of being overextended are white noise. By that logic every idiotic thing you do is a great idea until reality catches up to you and you finally get run over by a car crossing the highway drunk every night for a year. There have been about 100 hours worth of firesides talking about how terribly asymmetric the new sovereignty system is in regards to offense and defense, too bad that poo poo only happened after talk of overextension wasn't merely "white noise" any more. Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 23:11
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Elsa posted:what No, you doofus, the coalition should have realized that completely non-existant military coordination combined with trying to hold seven giant regions of space is a recipe for disaster, and got to work on both of these issues before it was too late. There was no need to hold all this space. Deklein population density was like order of magnitude higher than the rest of the Imperium and it worked fine for GSF, all 40k imperium pilots combined had no need for 7 regions. Instead people chose to believe that the imperium was going from one win to another until "suddenly" everything was lost in a few weeks, which cost the coalition a few dozen trillion, about 25k pilots and half of the alliances. And, according to your words, forced us to sit around in Saranen with our thumbs up our butts long enough for the hostiles to lose all interest (which only happened this last sunday right) so we could creep away to Delve
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Jul 26, 2016 23:33
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Elsa posted:I get where you're coming from. This situation still has some loose ends in my mind, but they can be explained as leadership differences. Short term, we're gonna watch Saranen clear out and probably throw some blackops on northern ratters who hopefully become even more lazy now that the goon menace is gone, and maybe assert dominance amongst minor goon run alliances by adding goonswarm ratters in fade to the target list After that, we're gonna go pick a nice spot on the map to deploy to where there is enough entertainment nearby so we don't run out of things to shoot, stay until it gets boring and move on to the next spot, training our pilots how to be better at eve in the process (especially those that haven't been around long enough so they only know horrific inventions like speed proteus'  ) Throw up an astrohaus here and there in the process probably, and maybe lose a bunch of supercaps trying to do dumb stuff with the new weaponry
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Jul 27, 2016 09:23
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Booley posted:They need to either take the game less seriously and cry less when they get cloak camped all day long and have people constantly attack their sov, or they need to get more serious and realize that if they want to own space they need to only own enough systems that they can keep ADMs up, This was too hard a concept for the mighty IMPERIUM to grasp for a whole year after it was first brought up so what do you expect from some random coalition without the brainpower and organization that makes the Imperium great!
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Aug 13, 2016 20:02
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Elsa posted:whaat If you truly think that leaving people like bastion or lawn stranded in vale with heaps of assets stuck/lost, losing triple digits of allied supers making the exodus from the north and more than half the player numbers/alliances of the imperium was the best possible way of adjusting to fozzie sov and that the massive benefits of ??? that you reaped in the months you didn't adjust somehow make up for this, more power to you
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Aug 13, 2016 21:11
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Sunber posted:Source? FCON killboard
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Aug 13, 2016 21:25
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Okay no hyperbole: it was probably more than twenty and less than fifty as long as we don't count aborted CSAA so clearly it was worth it
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Aug 13, 2016 21:47
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Nice crypto fascism there
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Aug 13, 2016 22:13
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We begged for a year to condense the non-gsf imperium into as much space as would be necessary to lead to a population density comparable to deklein, so yes, 1-2 regions beyond deklein tops. We offered to be the first to move to like a single constellation in loving pure blind if this was deemed necessary to get things going even It's not like this would have meant just abandoning all the rest outright, could still have "held" it as buffer space or vice royalties or whatever else fancy word might be found until someone attacks, but don't distribute the main living space of each ally so far apart
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Aug 13, 2016 22:18
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Orange Red Bull posted:if all of yall foresaw your doom so clearly why did everyone have a bajillion csaas building 1488 supers a piece and then funnel through UJY like lemmings on the way out? Try to find a single dead exe super or titan on the killboards. We evacuated 99% of our poo poo without a hickup. I also never claimed that it was just the evil gsf illuminati that didn't want to listen, it's just, between GSF directorate and the people behind the "take gates through deklein to evac your titans" strategy, whom would you pin your hopes on
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Aug 13, 2016 22:25
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Yeah well 13 fantastillions or not, it's much harder to assemble that blob and keep it together long enough if you don't start the feeding frenzy by demonstrating how easy it is to attack the allies on the periphery for a few months who have to be bailed out constantly
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Aug 13, 2016 22:30
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If overextension is a non factor I recommend taking Querious and Period Basis too, GSF should put lawn into Querious, Bastion into Period Basis and then stage an invasion of Paragon Soul via apiaries and hand that to TNT. I am sure it will all work out as long as lenny doesn't spend another 13 trillion
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Aug 13, 2016 22:32
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And Xenuria's Edit: free from that is
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Aug 13, 2016 22:38
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Oh, my farewell post on goonfleet.com is pretty much a glowing review of our experience. Just got really tired of trying to play the sovereignty game in a coalition when we aren't sure which lessons people chose to take from the experience of the last year
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Aug 13, 2016 22:59
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It's not hindsight if you raise a point months before the war even slowly starts to happen. That said, we clearly can't even make anyone not push Xenuria for CSM  , so we chose that we'd rather do our own thing for now vOv
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Aug 13, 2016 23:13
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I looked at the map of delve today, which parts of delve will goonswarm's valued allies be allowed to put up a little flag of their own up on? Also, I've got some vintage glass cannon megathrons in corp hangar who took part in the battle of NOL to defeat the redswarm menace in delve I in kfie, willing to sell as collectors item at a slight markup!
Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 09:50
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Baculus posted:Whatever our dear leaders thought they were going to use him to accomplish, they were clearly wrong and probably won't ever admit it now. When Xenuria joined the Imperium first idk a year ago and pretty soon was very obviously and publically groomed for great things by mittens I said in autocrats slack that if he was ever gonna put on the CSM ballot as some sort of "if we smear poo poo all over our own face it will be a total troll for everyone that comes into contact with us" I'd be leaving the Imperium with EXE. Clearly that was the master plan and it worked flawlessly Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 17:31
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Hey so if you say BOS was kicked over leaking CD chats are you talking about them leaking things I had said in confidence to Sion about a certain mittens annointed "star fc" in my alliance back to said FC in a (successful) attempt to cause drama and ultimately poach him? Because if so it'd been a good idea to let us know about it as this was the second time the exact same thing happened and it kind of felt like no one really cared too much about fixing that. Or were they even leakier than that
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Sep 14, 2016 18:57
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AAPsel posted:Money isn't the main issue with squads or sigs. You need a few hundred mil, maybe 2b a month max for fuel, director mistakes and special person reimbursement but that's it. There's more than enough independently wealthy people in gsf who just want to pvp. They can carry a squad easily if you don't have a repulsive personality. I have to say that until lakz leaked those conversations and shock fist was naive enough to tell me about it I didn't even realize that every informal conversation ever I had with Sion* was logged and then shared between the i don't know how many hundred staff GSF has with access to that poo poo. Or maybe it's just selective conversations that can be used to good poaching use that get shared to some sucker dumb enough to use them and fall on their sword afterwards I mean in the end it's sad the whole point of the conversation was that he is a great guy in person and a good FC because he was actually willing to listen and learn if you spent enough effort teaching but that he also suffered from the slightly brittle FC ego of a dude just out of highschool becoming space famous and therefore needs careful managing or is prone to rash and/or bad decisions so ofc lakz selectively leaked the last part mostly and promptly both GSF and EXE were minus one FC vOv *Edit: I did actually assume that conversations with our officially assigned diplomats would be logged and shared, but was not aware the same went for other informal chats with Sion and whoever else I might have been talking to. I'd like to file a freedom of information request for all chatlogs involving myself please Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 19:22
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ullerrm posted:
I've been at a few bob bbqs, one of which A GOON attended (in reality it was some mostly harmless dude) and he spent the whole time being an rear end in a top hat to everyone for being in an evil space guild, then someone repeatedly told him "clearly you like the cock" so he sucker punched the dude.. Also grown men wearing cloaks every day (and not as part of some sort of amarr role play). And then a dude that I sold a system in fountain to for 10bn per month came to one and held a speech in front of all attendants about how privileged he felt to be (paying) member of the GBC family and how amazing and professional my conduct in the rent talks had been and how lucky he was I took care of him as opposed to other less qualified rent managers. Then he gave me some expensive scotch. That and the embarassing Veto role play travelling troupe bus finally convinced me to only attend eve meet ups that I get to select the attendants to.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:01
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Landsknecht posted:once i went to the local eve meet at a bar and there were 2 guys from my corp and a guy from widot and some other guys (include hardcore hisec guys) and we mostly shared funny stories about eve and some "what-ifs" and talked a bit about game mechanics but also other stuff Oh god this reminds me my very first eve meet I joined up was some pubmeet and we only learned about it last minute so when we arrived it turned out it was customary to introduce yourself with your ingame credentials and then several guys from some hardcore highsec mission runner corp came over and wanted to shake our hands and said something like "OMG it's so great to get to meet a real nullsec person of such importance" Also I could swear Veto had that giant pink dildo half a decade ago already
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Sep 14, 2016 22:16
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Fix Lag posted:also if you want a laugh read the "thetans why is nobody active after we tried making you rat in venal and pureblind instead of deklein" thread Under fozziesov, we will just power project into pure blind like we did before! To the adm mobiles!
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Sep 15, 2016 18:35
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Rhymenoserous posted:If they had pulled that kind or participation when defending their old space... So, THE IMPERIUM, stronger than ever before, cannot take on the coalition of deplorables led by FCON FCON did pull these kind of numbers in the defense of their space btw, the problem with the "defense" of Imperium space was that there was no consistent military leadership visible since the burnout of blawrf and turns out if you shout at already panicked SMA's and FCON's to go to Saranen because that will fix things while the reality in Saranen is that at the very least two out of three timers are being ignored, often for good reason but never with any sort of transparent information flow in the military leadership channels, all the panicked SMA's and FCON's will see is "GOONS MUST COME BUT AREN'T COMING" The good thing for the new and stronger Imperium in delve is that your remaining allies are so small compared to GSF that it is completely inconsequential whether you fix the issue of actual coalition military coordination though I hear that merely about a year after we all started complaining about the war room being completely dysfunctional finally the remaining allies got invited into whatever the name the equivalent GSF channel wasEdit: Also sorry Sion I like both you and Endie and there was a few times in the last dozen pages or so where I wanted to make a post about how all this SION IS LITERALLY HEIDRICH (or whatever idiotic meme was coined there by Herr Endie) and so many idiots somehow holding you responsible for all things wrong with GSF is clearly retarded, especially when I don't think anyone would ever accuse Mittens of just being a pretty face and empty figurehead; but at the same time the narrative of endie just having been a conniving but incompetent wormtongue from the start who never showed any redeemable qualities and who now apparently even was indirectly abetted by Libyan terrorists being the one major puppet master of discontent is equally hilarious and giant walls of texts about it should probably be reserved for the fireside chats because I guess nowadays at least the audience there seems to enjoy that poo poo In the end maybe you should both sleep well knowing that both of you managed to convince a large amount of idiots on the internet that the other is literally hitler Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 09:55
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Between remedial and anthonyz eve goons sure knew how to pick the loons to look up to
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Sep 16, 2016 11:17
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Zodium posted:fun fact: Tony was initially trying to use the T20 information to blackmail BoB for an Aeon I was in fountain with Xelas (lol) for like four weeks and he tried to become king of fountain or some poo poo i don't quite remember in any case he had a giant pubbie flame on several forums when he wasn't made emperor of space complete with threats to hunt several people until the end of time with his amazing hacking skills and it was really, really embarassing and five minutes later (I guess it was more like two years) he joins remedial on the cheeto-crusted throne of goondom
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Sep 16, 2016 11:33
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Too bad the exciting concept of deliverables was never applied to the people charged with keeping the war room running
Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 16:48
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Numismancer posted:Coord is a goddamned recurring nightmare, even when you have 'one guy do everything' then they flame out and become the nightmare. A lot of the coord issues I think I could have solved but I was taken off the table between June and July due to personal stuff which is now public. Apple Pear and Thomas Lear have done a fantastic job turning poo poo around. Wibla posted:To be fair, the TWR issues were ongoing for over a year. Coord in its current iteration is a whole lot better than what was going on in march/april. The TWR shutdown and integration into coord could have been done at a (much) earlier date, most allied leadership (on any level) didn't even know that it existed, instead we saw total radio silence in the channels we were in. I am aware it doesn't matter one bit whether GSF has one more remaining tiny ally in delve with them or not, but if you asked me for one single main reason for why we left, it's this: as wibla says this all started so much earlier and, while every couple weeks some other grand plan was published and started on, fixing the war room never happened because there was always something else in the way. And the integration into coord was a step that would have been so easy to implement with the only thing preventing it that I can see is probably GSF falling into the "can't let the allies know anything because they are riddled with spies" trap.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:09
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This thread would greatly benefit from the posting equivalent of this paint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoN5EteWCH8 (there are english subtitles)
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Sep 16, 2016 19:22
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:find me useless stickies and ill knock them over, vio did for a couple days then got bored https://goonfleet.com/index.php/topic/144701-h-ratli-smirks-infamous-guide-to-posting-read-this-now/ This one as no one reads it anyway as evidenced by all the posting
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Sep 16, 2016 20:27
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Orange Red Bull posted:i thought he was one of the elder rmt lords in morsus mihi with vuk lau but thats endie or sion territory All I know is that he turned up in BNC as Coranor's right hand man but sadly never had Coranor's irish charm
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Sep 27, 2016 23:19
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Zodium posted:tbqh this is the only kind of lasting connection that ever existed between GS and PL, and there is no bringing it back absent a massive common enemy that simply can't exist now that PL is the apex elite lowsec pvp alliance rather than a hungry second-rate wanting more. the two alliances and the players they appeal to have exactly nothing in common and were only ever politically united to begin with by BoB. PL leadership was motivated by outrage over BoB's ~dishonorable~ playing (they were a very different and very pubbie PL back then), plus a sense of ownership owing to the fact that one of their members (AnthonyZ) started off the T20 scandal. at the leadership level, they obviously saw opportunity too. GS was more or less motivated by a mix of survival and revenge at both the line member and leadership level,very never again sort of thing. The hilarious thing about ancient eve history is that while BoB had a bunch of true believing space bushido warriors (Molle always sorta was an outraged grandpa looking at all these misbehaving kids out there) they also were the only other large, significant organisation at the time in eve that, like goonfleet, had a vast share of people who just wanted to gently caress with people in whatever way possible, and not adhere to the honourable space warrior code like most everyone else in eve. Most notably, for the first five years or so of this eternal conflict, pretty much all of goonfleets chosen allies spent their time posting about how despicable non-consensual pvp was and one of their favourite expressions on the german community forums was that being in BoB was just a tiny step away from being a mass child murderer shooting up a kindergarden (you see behind every mining barge there is a real person, so there really is not much difference between kicking over honourable miner sand castles in eve and going on a spree shooting IRL). Sure, there was a lot of honour posting on caod by BoB, but for most people that was pure posturing (the bushido part, not the wipe out goons part, once you decide you're gonna wipe someone out you gotta be serious about that! )I mean we are talking about a time in eve where the old northern alliances and valued goonfleet allies mass threadnaught-ed over bob using a covops with a small smartbomb to aggress a titan before it logged off, unnoticed by its pilot, with the titan subsequently dieing; surely this grievous abuse of legit game mechanics must be outlawed be ccp and cause eternal damnation in the afterlife! AnthonyZ joined BoB pets Xelas in ancient history and had a giant freakout over dumb ego stuff complete with idiotic forum posts promising eternal vengeance and in general was the biggest honour pubbie imaginable, too. Also, PL is very different from MC in so far that as much as MC always liked to believe otherwise, they were just not that strong on their own; they excelled at kicking in sandcastles built by incompetents but needed meatshields much more than PL do now in the current universe, convincing them otherwise was probably the best move GF diplomacy ever made with the most hilarious results, too, with tortuga being such an amazing failure.
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Sep 28, 2016 11:08
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Let's not forget the Germans formerly of -G- (I think don't shoot me if they were Iron or some other terrible entitity) who eventually ended up in ev0ke a few years down the road and spent years posting about BoB's t20 exploits and how the sabre bpo made them untouchable when it turned out years later that they had exploited the pos mechanics bug from the very start and literally printed free isk via the ferrogel exploit for years, which by the nature of the mechanics would have generated an order of magnitude bigger isk-advantage on the side of the true honoure pubbies than BoB could ever have generated via BPO
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Sep 28, 2016 11:14
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"No cloak camping allowed" Good PAP ratio mandatory
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Sep 29, 2016 11:35
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learnincurve posted:BoB were the worst allies. The main reason the first war was lost was because they saw renters as carebears to be milked and meat shields and only that. Meanwhile we couldn't care less about them in turn and just wanted to get personal crap out in big convoys to NPC 0.0. It was like watching your slum apartments burn down and going oh well, landlord's problem. One of the ironies is that had we all given a poo poo, BoB would have won. Had "you" all given a poo poo BoB would still have lost because in order to accept BoB renting terms you had to be grossly incompetent at eve considering all it took to become non-renters with blue standing was to show some sort of killboard record of being able to kill poo poo fielding more than random kitchen sink fleets and maybe a handful of dreads. Selling renters systems for outrageous sums and then abandoning them is just a slightly more elaborate form of outright recruitment scamming them with a longer payout. Renters are treated as cattle everywhere by every group, the trick is that back in the day idiots would line up to pay people like BoB absurd sums of money for the priviledge to be treated as cattle and nowadays slumlords have to settle for slightly less. No one ever has defended their renters because they felt that they were valued friends, any defense that may be put up is based purely on protecting your cash cows. If you wanted to be treated better by BoB (or any other group ever in eve), maybe consider instead of renting systems from them get blue standings as an ally (yes, BoB did have those too) The main problem in handling allies in BoB was that BoB didn't even have real leadership for their own alliance, instead each corp was a little fiefdom, and there never was proper organisation, leadership or otherwise; this led to idiots like ladyscarlet "handling" allied relationships not because she was officially in charge, but just because she liked bullying people; all you had to do is ignore her and chose your own contacts. This worked well enough as long as you just decided to do your own thing, others were dumb enough to try to ask for permission/input on every little plan they had
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Sep 29, 2016 17:35
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CainFortea posted:Like LV? Or ASCN? Yes, ASCN the dudes who famously were on BoB's side in the first great war And LV can't really be considered a BoB "pet". Could bob have done more to help LV? Sure, probably, but there was barely any proper coordination going on at the time LV was dieing, from either side.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:20
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