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Larry Parrish posted:You guys are seriously retarded if you liked how CoH2/DoW2 has the epic button that saves your units because unless they're really really deep behind enemy lines they just get to scoot back to base with 90% damage reduction and like 5x the movespeed. Every match of DoW2 I played had every single skirmish end with almost no units lost because people would just mash the retreat button as soon as they started to lose the firefight so they could come back with higher HP and win the next fight unless I also retreated Perhaps you should stop playing SM vs SM all the time then. Tac Marines (and maaaaybe CSMs) are the only squad that can come out of early fights with minimum casualties. Everyone else drops like flies out there. Also if you are forcing them to retreat early every time that's a good thing because you can grab points giving you more income to tech or build new squads to increase your advantage.
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May 5, 2016 05:21
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Forcing a retreat is the next best thing to wiping out a squad. The time lost enables you to fortify the position and capture what you need, maybe get a transport in there to reinforce. Plus there are ways to murder a retreating squad. Waiting for a retreat and dropping a squad of Stormboyz on that injured Tac Squad is beautiful.
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May 5, 2016 05:25
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Larry Parrish posted:You guys are seriously retarded if you liked how CoH2/DoW2 has the epic button that saves your units because unless they're really really deep behind enemy lines they just get to scoot back to base with 90% damage reduction and like 5x the movespeed. Every match of DoW2 I played had every single skirmish end with almost no units lost because people would just mash the retreat button as soon as they started to lose the firefight so they could come back with higher HP and win the next fight unless I also retreated Retreating didn't actually reduce incoming melee damage so if you outpositioned them you could cause massive casualties with just a few melee attacks on the retreating enemies. Getting a single squad kill on an enemy was loving titanic because a new squad would run 400+ req while replacing every dead member in the squad except a sole survivor was like 100 req. Similarly, if the enemy is retreating all the time you're capping the map and gaining resources faster so you can upgrade sooner than they can, which makes winning the next fight easier. Unupgraded tac marines don't fare well against upgraded tac marines. Also dead troops means less veterancy which means weaker units. It's a snowball effect.
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May 5, 2016 05:26
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Gamerofthegame posted:so where's this colorful thing coming from anyway This is what I'm wondering too. Color wise it looks pretty much like DoW2 to me. It wasn't just normal melee damage on retreat, DoW2 units took massively increased melee damage while retreating. You could wipe space marine units with a well placed cultist if you forced the retreat.
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May 5, 2016 05:28
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FoolyCharged posted:Well I mean he wasn't wrong. Deliberately refusing to upgrade your graphics from a game released 7 years ago is certainly an imaginative decision. tbqhimo(iklol) graphics generally have not improved in the last seven years.
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May 5, 2016 05:49
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Kanos posted:Retreating didn't actually reduce incoming melee damage so if you outpositioned them you could cause massive casualties with just a few melee attacks on the retreating enemies. Getting a single squad kill on an enemy was loving titanic because a new squad would run 400+ req while replacing every dead member in the squad except a sole survivor was like 100 req. Similarly, if the enemy is retreating all the time you're capping the map and gaining resources faster so you can upgrade sooner than they can, which makes winning the next fight easier. Unupgraded tac marines don't fare well against upgraded tac marines. Yeah, the game was designed around an early game where lost fights would mean you lost territory and resources but kept your army so you could always push back out again without absolutely failing. T1 matches are about positioning and micro, and then in T2 you unlock entire new sets of tools that let you counter your opponents setup and punish them hard and end the game even if you succeed greatly. Also retreat comes from Coh1 so I dunno why you singled out CoH2 instead.
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May 5, 2016 08:02
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Yeah, not only do you not get damage reduction from melee attack, you actually receive extra (30% iirc) damage from melee attack. You also only get gradual speed boost as you retreat. If you retreat when a melee squad is behind you, you will take massive damage. Melee combat is pretty lethal in DOW2. Most tier 1 units have ~100 hp and melee unit do 25hp per hit. A grenade or mine in the retreat path are also common way for early squad wipe.
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May 5, 2016 08:21
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I am like super bummed to see people have some kind of weird pants making GBS threads aversion to base building. Squad management/hero nonsense is basically the least fun kind of RTS. I don't enjoy starcraft esque multiplayer but there was nothing inaccessible or overly difficult about C&C campaigns. Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun, and C&C 3, Red Alert 1 & 2 are a model for single player campaigns and I'm sorry, cover management and chasing a dude around a map for control poitns doesn't make for compelling multiplayer either. Having your power tied to static emplacement is cool and good.
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May 5, 2016 09:08
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Those graphics look so early I'll withold judgement, I doubt this is coming out until late next year at the earliest. I really enjoyed the more strategic elements of DOW2, setting up flanks and killzones of heavy bolters and bolter squads was endlessly satisfying. It was borderline cheating but figuring out what really works in the campaign maps went a long to making you feel like a 10 foot tall superman crushing the hordes beneath you. Last Stand was great too, by the time I got around to DOW 1, 2 had been out for awhile and it mostly felt like a lot of RTS from it's era, was neat to see all the extra factions represented by it didnt seem to play that differently than a command and conquer title. I was never a company of heroes guy so all the doomsaying around CoH2 and what it means about relic is leaving me apprehensive. However I wouldnt worry too much about the new game being a huge DLC fest, 2 was rotten to the core with that stuff and like a sucker I happily lapped it all up. I mean shoot, DOW2 didnt just have massive amounts of DLC it had piles of DLC on top of 2 expansions, talk about egregious. But yo my Last Stand Space Marine totally has that Mk III armor and yea Ill buy whatever you got Relic, I dont even need a DOW3 just keep pilling poo poo on top of 2 for all I care. Dr. Lariat fucked around with this message at 09:26 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 09:22
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The secret 4th race is gonna be the Tau. Everyone has to band together to beat the Tau cheese. And that secret weapon everyone is fighting over? Stormsurges.
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May 5, 2016 09:26
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hemophilia posted:I am like super bummed to see people have some kind of weird pants making GBS threads aversion to base building. Squad management/hero nonsense is basically the least fun kind of RTS. I don't enjoy starcraft esque multiplayer but there was nothing inaccessible or overly difficult about C&C campaigns. Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun, and C&C 3, Red Alert 1 & 2 are a model for single player campaigns and I'm sorry, cover management and chasing a dude around a map for control poitns doesn't make for compelling multiplayer either. Having your power tied to static emplacement is cool and good. Because we presently have two Dawn of War games with broadly similar mechanics(squad-based unit control with squad reinforcement/upgrading, three tier tech tree, morale, relic cover system, resources acquired by map control) and one was a traditional base builder(DoW1) and the other one wasn't(DoW2) and the latter was a drastically better competitive multiplayer game on almost every level, and comparing games in the same series by the same developer is generally going to give us a better idea what that developer is talking about when they talk about game mechanics than referring to 15 year old games in other franchises. Cover management has been the heart and soul of every Relic RTS's combat since DoW1.
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May 5, 2016 09:53
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If you liked DoW2 you should play extremely tactical and challenging games like Company of Heroes 2 and Defence of the Ancients 2, or other games committed to taking the strategy out of real time streategy
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May 5, 2016 10:00
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Larry Parrish posted:If you liked DoW2 you should play extremely tactical and challenging games like Company of Heroes 2 and Defence of the Ancients 2, or other games committed to taking the strategy out of real time streategy Did you play DoW1? I'm legitimately curious.
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May 5, 2016 10:04
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Why are there people in the Dawn of War 3 thread telling me I'm dumb for liking Dawn of War 2?
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May 5, 2016 10:04
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Relic used to be Amazing. Buggo used to post in the coh thread and was one of the first wave of really clued in community reps, hell the idea for the Brits to get buildable trenches in the opposing fronts expansion was a suggestion from a goon (you know who you were you fucker). Does anyone remember that DoW2 shipped with only three(!!!!) 1v1 maps for multiplayer? There was a fourth map made, but it was a collector's edition bonus and you could only play it with other people who had the collector's edition, the chances of you getting matched with someone else with the correct version of the game to play on your special snowflake map was tiny. This isn't the same company that brought you homeworld, company of heroes or even dawn of war 2 it's just a group of interns who are all that are left.
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May 5, 2016 10:12
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Kanos posted:Did you play DoW1? I'm legitimately curious. It was also extremely lacking in depth but at least it was possible to beat the enemy through attrition by fighting them instead of just constantly sending 1 or 2 squads to cap points over and over until you have full upgrades, at which point you box select and attack move the enemy HQ and pray you have the tech edge
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May 5, 2016 10:15
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Larry Parrish posted:If you liked DoW2 you should play extremely tactical and challenging games like Company of Heroes 2 and Defence of the Ancients 2, or other games committed to taking the strategy out of real time streategy Neither of those games allow me to serve the undying emperor, he who protects us, he who hold back the darkness, he who guides us, champion of the great crusade, the anathema of ruinous powers, etc, etc. I am terribly unconcerned of the exploits of ww2 heroes or defenders of the ancient. I'm one of those weirdos that dont care a ton for pvp RTS, I just like pushing armies around maps, seeing my abilities, power and unit selection expand, hopefully towards the goal of some kind of unfolding story line. What DOW2 did in the single player or co-op aspect was so far above and beyond most every game in the genre, Starcraft 2 learned a lot from them it seemed with the choices and army customization and what not but that's done, and C&C is done and grey goo didnt have that. Not sure what other similar budgeted games are out there. Maybe this comes back to that whole folks that liked the multi vs folks that liked the campaign thing again but few games in the genre stand up to DOW2's crazy campaign spread across two games and a weird 3rd thing that was mostly related. EDIT TLDR: I want RTS games that are also RPG, that's crazy fun. Its why DOW2 is good. Dr. Lariat fucked around with this message at 10:27 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 10:16
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Larry Parrish posted:It was also extremely lacking in depth but at least it was possible to beat the enemy through attrition by fighting them instead of just constantly sending 1 or 2 squads to cap points over and over until you have full upgrades, at which point you box select and attack move the enemy HQ and pray you have the tech edge You never really played DoW2 multiplayer did you
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May 5, 2016 10:19
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Lyer posted:I hope they have a version of the last stand, that poo poo was my jam. I still play last stand. They just added a necron lord hero a couple months ago for free.
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May 5, 2016 10:21
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Larry Parrish posted:It was also extremely lacking in depth but at least it was possible to beat the enemy through attrition by fighting them instead of just constantly sending 1 or 2 squads to cap points over and over until you have full upgrades, at which point you box select and attack move the enemy HQ and pray you have the tech edge This is such a grossly incorrect summary of how a DoW2 multiplayer match goes that I'm wondering if you're actually from some kind of alternate universe where Dewey defeated Truman. I played hundreds of hours of DoW2 multiplayer and I can count the number of DoW2 multiplayer matches I played or saw that ended with HQ kills on my hands. DoW2 multiplayer matches were won by control points, not annihilation. Alternatively, Eej posted:You never really played DoW2 multiplayer did you
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May 5, 2016 10:32
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The only times I've seen HQs get blown up legit instead of after a one sided stomp is on that old 1v1 jungle map where the VPs are all on the north side and your HQs are basically next to each other and wif' kunnin strategery (Tankbustas in a Trukk to pressure their HQ and sometimes even blow it up) you can get away with it.
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May 5, 2016 10:45
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Kanos posted:This is such a grossly incorrect summary of how a DoW2 multiplayer match goes that I'm wondering if you're actually from some kind of alternate universe where Dewey defeated Truman. I played hundreds of hours of DoW2 multiplayer and I can count the number of DoW2 multiplayer matches I played or saw that ended with HQ kills on my hands. DoW2 multiplayer matches were won by control points, not annihilation. I think he is referring to DoW1 there. He's still wrong, DOTA2 is incredibly more complex than DoW2 is. Source: me because I've played over 2000hrs of both games.
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May 5, 2016 10:51
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Eej posted:You never really played DoW2 multiplayer did you I think everyone realized that after his first post but it's still funny seeing all the retarded poo poo he says.
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May 5, 2016 10:52
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Kanos posted:Because we presently have two Dawn of War games with broadly similar mechanics(squad-based unit control with squad reinforcement/upgrading, three tier tech tree, morale, relic cover system, resources acquired by map control) and one was a traditional base builder(DoW1) and the other one wasn't(DoW2) and the latter was a drastically better competitive multiplayer game on almost every level, and comparing games in the same series by the same developer is generally going to give us a better idea what that developer is talking about when they talk about game mechanics than referring to 15 year old games in other franchises. I thought i was pretty clear that i don't give a drat about the multiplayer aspects of it and yeah cover management was in dow1 but dow2 being neither a very good RTS nor a very deep RPG made for a worse game in the solo campaign. Cover management is actually fine and it was a fun addition to dealing with traditional RTS concerns, which DOW 2 threw out entirely in favor of a playstyle that built around the idea of "what if we took warcraft heroes and gave them squads of dudes and made that the entire game." Like for real, one year out nobody is going to be playing dow 3 multiplayer except a handful of people who will in all likelihood surpass the threshold of skill where new people really can't compete. Assuming they have an aggressive DLC/expansion plan (of course they do) this state of affairs may limp on for a while but seriously man there are RTS games that should be built around what's done in multiplayer, but dawn of war isn't that franchise.
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May 5, 2016 11:16
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hemophilia posted:I thought i was pretty clear that i don't give a drat about the multiplayer aspects of it and yeah cover management was in dow1 but dow2 being neither a very good RTS nor a very deep RPG made for a worse game in the solo campaign. Cover management is actually fine and it was a fun addition to dealing with traditional RTS concerns, which DOW 2 threw out entirely in favor of a playstyle that built around the idea of "what if we took warcraft heroes and gave them squads of dudes and made that the entire game." It's great that you don't give a drat about the multiplayer aspects of it! Many of us posting here do, though. A really solid singleplayer story campaign in an RTS will give someone a dozen hours of entertainment(more if it's open-ended like Dark Crusade, but DC's campaign was a bunch of skirmishes tied together with a progression system and a loose narrative). A really solid multiplayer experience will give someone potentially hundreds of hours of entertainment. That "not very deep RPG" styling you disparage a lot led to The Last Stand, which is one of the most enduringly popular aspects of DoW2 despite having only two maps and an incredibly limited amount of content. There's a pretty big audience for that kind of stuff! I don't actually know what you're arguing with your second statement. "Eventually the game's multiplayer will die down in population from launch and people will get good at it, so they shouldn't even bother"? Every single Relic RTS since DoW1 has had expansion packs by the bushel and all of them have had extremely active multiplayer scenes.
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May 5, 2016 11:27
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In fact I think there's a huge percentage of the potential buyers that will never play the single player campaign and will go directly to the MP. Hell, I even think that the percentage is higher for relic games than the ones interested in a dull SP.
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May 5, 2016 11:35
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they better bring back the dow1 painter because the dow2 one was loving weak actually no they need to bring in the one from the space marine multiplayer only with full RGB code
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May 5, 2016 11:50
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everything i'm hearing about this is giving me mad flashbacks to CnC 4
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May 5, 2016 12:01
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Cryoned posted:In fact I think there's a huge percentage of the potential buyers that will never play the single player campaign and will go directly to the MP. To be fair, it is usually the other way around with most people ignoring the multiplayer part. I am with you though, i haven't touched the campaign in BFG:A yet and i have played the game for 30 hours  .
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May 5, 2016 12:20
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Milky Moor posted:everything i'm hearing about this is giving me mad flashbacks to CnC 4 The only thing anyone has really heard from the creators is a fluff cinematic, 3 screenshots, some developer quotes, and a video game journalists speculation. Basically what was shown of Prey 2 at E3, loving lol. Turn the autism down a notch, thread
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May 5, 2016 12:37
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Milky Moor posted:everything i'm hearing about this is giving me mad flashbacks to CnC 4 Jesus, dude. It definitely doesn't sound like it's that bad yet. Way to jump to the extreme end of the spectrum.
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May 5, 2016 12:41
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To me sounds that bad yeah - Flashy - No cover system - Base building - Only 3 factions, and the base 3, nothing exciting - accessible aka dumbed down - War Gear disappearing Everything they said about this game sounds loving awful Cryoned fucked around with this message at 13:31 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 13:07
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They only revealed 3 factions for DoW2 and kept tyranids super under wraps until pretty close to release, to the point where they cut the reveal trailer in two and didn't show the second half for a long time because the second half had the 'nids showing up to eat everyone. We don't actually know what "accessible" means. I wouldn't go crazy about the game being poo poo until we actually see some gameplay in motion.
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May 5, 2016 13:23
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Cryoned posted:To me sounds that bad yeah yep. it's weird how people can hear all this but think base building is going to be anything like DoW1 - it makes me think of halo wars or some poo poo. and i liked halo wars, but it's not the direction dawn of war as a series should be taking. the lack of cover in exchange for fortifications that you capture is pretty damning, too.
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May 5, 2016 13:25
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I feel like a lot of people back when DoW2 released saw the "no base building" , threw a fit about it and without actually playing the game to any extent they instead went on to assume it was the worst game in every way. DoW 2 has it flaws but it was some very nice and fun innovation into the rts genre, no base building was actually a good thing, same with the smaller and more tactical gameplay which offered way more entertaining battles. Even if the army sizes where smaller I always felt it produced way more epic battles. DoW 1 was good for a RTS going with the Starcraft mentality of macro > micro with some cool spins to the forumla , but also had its flaws. mainly combat got dull fast. Most matches would start out fun with some early harrasment tactics and small skirmish but soon erupted into what basically was just blobs of units mashed together with little strategy or tactics to it. Personally I'm disappointed with what seems to be many steps back from the cool stuff DoW2 brought to a more generic and dumbed down game, but I'm still hoping once more info is released that more interesting features are revealed.
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May 5, 2016 13:43
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Kanos posted:Because we presently have two Dawn of War games with broadly similar mechanics(squad-based unit control with squad reinforcement/upgrading, three tier tech tree, morale, relic cover system, resources acquired by map control) and one was a traditional base builder(DoW1) and the other one wasn't(DoW2) and the latter was a drastically better competitive multiplayer game on almost every level Because it was a MOBA, not an RTS. Cooldowns cooldowns coooldooowns! Lol "competitive multiplayer". It's clear that some people want a warhams game with waaaagh, and others want som APM-focused shitfest with squad management and warhammer skins. ditty bout my clitty fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 14:04
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I liked Dawn of War 2 and CoH2 because Relic's sound design is phenomenal. Every explosion just sounds so good and its so fun when you got people screaming thrown in through it. 
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May 5, 2016 14:19
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Larry Parrish posted:It was also extremely lacking in depth but at least it was possible to beat the enemy through attrition by fighting them instead of just constantly sending 1 or 2 squads to cap points over and over until you have full upgrades, at which point you box select and attack move the enemy HQ and pray you have the tech edge
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May 5, 2016 14:22
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Archer666 posted:I liked Dawn of War 2 and CoH2 because Relic's sound design is phenomenal. Every explosion just sounds so good and its so fun when you got people screaming thrown in through it. CoH2's sound design was p lackluster compared to its predecessors though, at least when it came to unit barks and idle lines which were great in all the other games.
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May 5, 2016 14:54
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Because it was a MOBA, not an RTS. Cooldowns cooldowns coooldooowns! It was nothing like a MOBA.
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May 5, 2016 14:59
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