|
abelian posted:We might consider consolidating the recon teams under a single player and have either Frozen or Pedro join the infantry. Oi! Why would you mess with the recon dream team?!
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 15:36 |
|
|
Gewehr 43 posted:Is there any kind of view into town from the northern farm? If so, it might be a good spot to station an HMG team to not only lay down suppressing fire, but also hold the objective. dtkozl posted:Yeah the Bat HQ has a 80mm mortar call in. He can dole it out as he sees fit. Unless I'm missing something, doesn't the Wespe fit the bill here too?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
abelian posted:
This. The 2nd Objective is in a relatively open area and doesn't provide a lot of immediate benefit. It is roughly halfway between the staging areas for each of our forces and as we have no mechanized infantry units, we are unlikely to get there first - and if it is a race the best we can hope for is a tie. Of course, the Stgs and other close weapons will perform better here, but you're also making yourself an excellent target for mortars, tanks etc. as others have pointed out. Perhaps this can be used to our advantage, but it doesn't seem wise to place too many of our troops within this objective. As far as I am aware, it only counts towards the victory condition at a specified point, so there's little sense in throwing troops in to the meat grinder when they could be better served elsewhere. The tree lines on the north side of Obj. 2 may not have an elevation advantage (aside from the high ground to the East) but are generally closer to the objective than most of the treelines on the allied side of the map. It seems that if we were to initially deploy a significant portion of our infantry along these treelines with good visibility to the objective we should be able to deny it to the enemy and bleed him considerably if he attempts to take it. If he doesn't, the low ground just north of the objective could be used to get infantry within the cap zone and force a confrontation or perhaps coax the enemy to reveal a valuable asset in their attempt to dislodge us. Of course, if the enemy does not go for this objective, then these locations are still in a pretty good spot to redeploy to face threats from the flanks as necessary. In short, there are plenty of options, but does not seem wise to rush in to that area. I would expect an enemy team to set up in or just North of Obj. 3 in the buildings. These may not offer good visibility to Obj. 2 unless there are upper floors they can get to, as Obj. 2 is raised slightly from that position. In the event it does become an issue to taking Obj. 2, the elimination of other Allied valuable assets should give us enough of an advantage in the field to task an armored resource to deal with it, so I don't see it being an issue unless the rest of the plan goes to poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2016 07:02
|
|
|
I have yet to hop in the game and see how our compliment of vehicles will perform off-road, but given the identified terrain features, points of interest and routes of advance, my thoughts are the following: Any successful advance into Obj. 2 will require a serious amount of support and fire superiority. I don't think it's a position that we can expect to take *and hold* without serious casualties until Allied forces have been reduced and have only limited vantage points to cover the objective from. Rushing either flank without having sufficient intel is a risky maneuver. To sufficiently exploit this, we need to be quick about getting the necessary recon to allow us to pull it off while minimizing the risk - or significantly reduce the risks before performing the maneuver. So, in my mind, the intelligent strategic option would be to defend and deny at best possible positions along the North side of the map, while a simultaneous probe of the two flanks is conducted. As this occurs, hopefully our reconnaissance will give us a better picture of where the Allies will have their assets deployed, at which point if an opening is present, pivot our forces in a way that provides us the necessary leverage to exploit it with the objective of inflicting disproportionate damage to enemy forces. Specifically, getting Stg44/Mp40 equipped squads into close contact with suppressed enemy infantry while eliminating the valuable assets that the allies are likely to use to counter such a tactic. High-priority targets like tanks, AA, or other infantry-slaughtering devices need to be eliminated or contained for the above to be effective. Basically, take a defensive position and probe flanks. Attempt to draw out and neutralize/destroy key enemy assets to gain an advantage, redeploy appropriate forces to leverage advantage, profit. I do not recommend headlong rushes into the unknown without an appropriate base of support. FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 16, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2016 21:16
|
|
|
Xenolalia posted:Assuming that there will be snow conditions, here is a simplified version of the op plan I posted, I don't know, if the Allies move up Emil or Fritz and get into a halfway decent position we'll be taking fire from up to three sides if any push into B is made. While I don't mind a defensive fight, this is not the one I would choose. I'd opt for an aggressive defense that doesn't so readily give up the most of the accessible high ground on "our side" of the map. I think we could make something of this if we put a bit more of an extension out to the West - the purple/green line shouldn't really need to be filled too much considering how far back it is and given the shitstorm of fire one would have to weather from multiple directions in order to compromise it. I'll see if I can sketch something up tonight.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
A few notes from preliminary battlefield reports:
Talking a bit of strategy tonight got me thinking of a plan that looks a little something like this:  I probably should have simplified it a bit for the first phase, since the first 5 minutes will only concern about half of these indicators, but here's the general idea (specifics come later!) Yellow lines: Deployment routes for armored units Red Lines: March routes for infantry to assume the maroon support by fire positions at Lederhosen Woods and Firebase Hill Woods, covering open ground and Obj. 2 Green circle: Secure and hold Waffen Haus, conduct reconnaissance on the South edge of Baumy Wood This would pretty much cover the opening turn or two, while further developments may dictate the situation on the ground from there. Beyond that though, the idea would be to attempt a flanking attack along the primary (double blue arrow) axis of advance if conditions appear favorable, with elements from the Lederhosen support by fire shifting West along the treeline north of the road to form an attack by fire element to support advancing infantry supported by armor from Panther camp hill. Alternatively, if we find that the allies have strong-sided this area, an alternative route of advance is available (single blue arrow) along the Eastern flank. In both cases, smoke rounds should be used to conceal the movement of friendly forces through exposed areas. If we achieve a successful attack on their flanks, we will be in a good position against any remaining enemy forces by being able to apply pressure from multiple angles. Otherwise, if things don't look favorable for such an attack, we can act conservatively and fight a war of attrition in engagements favorable to us until an advantage is achieved. Okay, so there's much more to it than that, but strategically it seems to be a diverse and flexible enough opening move where we should be able to respond appropriately to the unpredictable situation on the battlefield.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 10:28
|
|
|
Saros posted:Okay so i'm still inclined to take the Hetzer over towards wounded knee and camp there, it's about the only firing position I can reach before the allies can have units in position and I really need to be stationary and holed up in cover to have any chance of taking out any tanks. It's too thin skinned and inflexible due to lack of turret to be used to support an offensive push in the west. Agree on this point, I think Wounded Knee is where I'd place a Hetzer to lock down that flank - back it up a bit in that little corner to conceal it a bit and prevent it from being seen from the Starting road, and provide a few scouts to ensure decent visibility. At least one Panther on the West side would do well to support an offensive push. Saros posted:What about the other AFV's? One Panzer could come with me and one flank west and we should definitely keep the whirlwind out of sight until the Shermans are down but the Pz II's, & Wespe are still up in the air. I was thinking one Panther west and one panther center (just to start) and can hang out in that depression on the road through Baumy wood which is a great hull-down position. From there it can react accordingly to threats on either flank while locking down the middle to boot. Of course, maybe we want to make better use of the initial 3 minute phase than having it sit for around for half of it.... glynnenstein posted:I like the way things are developing. My initial thoughts were all much too aggressive because I missed the bit about the SNOW ground condition. That could have been hilarious for observers. It's light snow, our vehicles should have no problem - not sure how much this will slow down infantry compared to the normal "snow" setting. Will have to send a few guys to romp around in it and see. glynnenstein posted:But a problem we have is that we aren't looking at our enemy's perspective enough, IMO. What would you do if you were on the American side? We should draw up at least a couple draft plans assuming we are in their position. Basic, broad strokes stuff so we can anticipate better and make sense of contacts we spot early. This is SUPER important because with the first turn being 3 minutes their is a certain commitment to avenues of approach. If we're going to do this, it needs to be done quick as we have to get orders in shortly. In any event, from my perspective of the Allied staging point, the central round of advance seems to welcome them to some degree, without a clear path of approach on the Western flank, but an Eastern flank being a possibility. Locking down that Eastern flank would go a long way towards containing them, as any possible advance on the West flank gives us a bit better position to fight back from and can be supported by our armored assets more readily. We won't really have an idea until the end of that first 3 minute round. We can guess all we want before then, but we'll be able to get a much better idea of their own battle plan after the initial turn, as vehicles movement should be obvious in a map this small. We have no idea what they'll do, but I'd expect an experienced player to be cautious and disperse their assets enough to supporting positions to be prepared for any initial push. glynnenstein posted:Along these lines, all our plans so far focus on the west, which is very much where I'd prefer to attack, but what if, say, the Americans smoke the east and rush a handful of half-tracks forward? How do we plan to react to or prevent something like that? It's a dramatically risky plan but in a LP with variously experienced people, it's totally within the realm of possibility. We really don't want a platoon on our left flank in those woods on a hill... Well, we don't want to have a lone Hetzer up on that hill, I imagine the firebase hill support by fire could shift East and any reserve armored asset hanging in the rear can come up to support the defense on that side. If we do end up having a Panther somewhere near the middle, they should be able to lend their fire support as well if the advance makes it past a certain point. From the looks of it though, that East flank will not be an easy nut to crack for an attacker if our assets are intelligently placed and can react quickly to support.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
I think the drafted orders will work well - I don't mind sticking my neck out for a quick jab to the Western flank in a recon vehicle. I'm not convinced that a two-prong attack is feasible unless we deliver a hefty initial blow to the allied forces, though it could work if reserves are committed and fortune favors us. As far as mortars go, what is the delay from the initial call-in? If it doesn't tip our hand too much, a HE barrage on the West flank of the Big D woods might help soften things up for infantry advancing along that flank and potentially deter an allied thrust along the same route. Unless the time to target is fairly minimal, our initial movements will be somewhat obvious to the enemy (at least as far as vehicles are concerned), smoke or not. If our smoke rounds are limited then I'd prefer to hold them for an advance along one of these flanks, though could see them also being used to conceal a quick feint towards Obj. 2 to draw the enemies' focus away from the flanks.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
Popete posted:Klaus88, any thoughts on tank deployment? I've got some, but you do your thing. We still have another Luchs that can be deployed to fill in a gap somewhere, but they can't take the heat like a Panther can.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:Not particularity. Except that putting the panthers on the flanks and the hertzer in the center seems like a reasonable deployment to me. Ok, I'll butt in - my worry with this is that the center is fairly depressed area. The Hetzer's gun is mounted very low on the chassis and may not be able to easily fire over the terrain in the central areas, whereas a Panther in the same position benefits from the hull-down profile granted by this terrain. That, and having limited traverse with the Hetzer's gun means that the entire chassis has to swing towards an enemy - being in the center, turning in such a fashion exposes the side of the vehicle to enemies in many cases - a vehicle with a turret does not have this problem. My $.02 FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 17, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Popete posted:Yeah that is a good point, the road is fairly low. I could swap positions with Saros and he takes Wounded Knee. My only worry there is a flank on the eastern side he could be overwhelmed pretty easily. But I may have an opportunity to help cover that side if it happens. I'd think that swap of positions would probably work well. If there's a Panther in the middle area and the scouts on Eastern flank detect a push that could threaten Wounded knee, reversing back down Baumy lane and heading up there would only take a turn or two without exposing oneself to the enemy. On the East flank, there is a fairly narrow corridor of likely approach to watch, and very limited opportunities for an advancing force to flank the position, so it plays well to the Hetzer's strength. If nothing else, 2nd Platoon is the most diverse of our infantry forces and is well-positioned to pivot their base of fire to stifle any such advance. It's not perfect, but it plays to each of the units strengths and weaknesses. I can do a bit of recce and see just what kind of fire support a Panther in the Baumy lane area can provider to that flank too if you'd like. Turnabout is fair play though, any ideas for the positioning on that second Luchs? FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jun 17, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2016 23:53
|
|
|
professor_curly posted:Infantry Platoons here are your objectives: As previously noted, I'll be surging ahead on that flank to dissuade an early Allied advance up the West flank and draw attention away from Panthers with battle riders. Depending on the situation once we're in position, I may be able to lend some support to this element.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2016 00:00
|
|
|
Popete posted:Whats the best position in Baumy Lane for the Panther, from the pictures it's pretty deep so I'm not sure where I could setup that I have good field of view over the east/west. Seems I could move almost all the way up to the edge of the trees. If you have a screen grab that would be great too. Jawohl! I'll reconnoiter the area and report back to you!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
Popete posted:Whats the best position in Baumy Lane for the Panther, from the pictures it's pretty deep so I'm not sure where I could setup that I have good field of view over the east/west. Seems I could move almost all the way up to the edge of the trees. If you have a screen grab that would be great too. Apologies mein herr, our preliminary reports were incorrect! See our reconnaissance photos: Here is the inflatable Panther we set up at the end of Baumy lane to simulate your position. Note: The men are real.  While Baumy lane is protected from enemy fire, it offers nothing in the way of visibility and firing lines. As you can see, the dip is too pronounced to see anything beyond it.  Baumy lane from another angle. The trough is real. On the plus side, our meteorologists report that this is a good position to weather out a tornado.  As you can see, one would have to advance dangerously close to Obj. 2 in order to see over raised ground in that area. Such a move would leave you dangerously exposed.  ... A thousand apologies mein herr! I don't know how this slipped in, nor do I immediately recognize it, but my best guess is that this is a rough sketch of the Allied battleplan. Ahem, as I was saying, this terrain offers little to nothing for the aspiring Panther commander.  The surrounding territory to the right doesn't offer any advantages either.  The left is little better...  However, careful investigation of the sightlines offered by the rise to the East indicate that the slope near 2nd Platoon and Firebase hill provide good sight lines on the Allied route of advance and puts you closer to Wounded Knee in the event that your assistance is required there. This would be my Primary Proposed Panther Position (PPPP) given the dismal terrain at Baumy lane.  This is where it is on the map (red), with well suited firing lanes down most of Sherman Lane as well as Some loving Orchard. The obvious flank for this position is already covered by the Hetzer (yellow). As an added bonus, you should be able to approach this position by navigating through a thin section of the Firebase Hill Woods and should be able to fall back into this concealment if necessary. You also have the benefit of creating a united front with and providing support to the infantry of 2nd Platoon.  In short, the mouth of Baumy road is essentially useless as a position for a Panther. Unsurprisingly, the position is also equally useless for a Hetzer.   This concludes my report. What are your thoughts? Supplemental: The terrain at Baumy lane provides us a ridiculously easy approach for infantry to Obj. 2. FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
dtkozl posted:Because nothing much happens at the very start, the first three turns will be one update. Plan accordingly! As a reminder guys, the first turn is essentially 3 minutes long if you only give your units commands that will take them 30 seconds to execute, then they will be sitting around for the other two and a half minutes!! Make the best of it, but do so intelligently. The enemy is unable to react as a whole to our deployments, but we are just as unable to react to theirs. FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
Popete posted:
Just wanted to point out, your left flank (Eastern side) is going to be a bit exposed if the allies push up any armor through Dream flank lane - not much you can really do about it, but want you to be aware and perhaps think of appropriate reactions to such an event if it occurs.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
 Deploy turned out Move fast to L4 Continue fast movement to H9 At this corner, turn to face SE Target and fire upon any infantry contacts If armor is encountered and poses a threat, then reverse behind the trees at A9 at earliest opportunity Otherwise, time movement such that a reverse to this same position is scheduled 15 seconds before turn end. Lets keep this simple, go straight to the corner of the trees (seen in screen shot) at A9, and then turn to face East. Final position should look like this:  Map isn't quite accurate with the change in orders, but still good enough for the basic idea, subtract the pew pew and go forwards all the way, then turn.  FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jun 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
Initial reports of the situation on the field appear promising...
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
abelian posted:I need your help answering these questions: Little late to the party as orders are already streaming in, but I'd agree, if it were me I would have them on the flanks. Use the Jumbo and Flammenpanzer to draw fire to the middle (and tanks facing too) deploy smoke while hitting them from their now exposed flanks with the long guns. Fire support moving East isn't bad, so long as it's not exposing itself before any recon/flanking action by the enemy is revealed. For the tanks in the middle, unless Popete is able to get lined up for a shot quickly, I'd expect those shermans to deploy smoke and back off - that's when I'd expect a jab at the flank to occur. If they don't, then a longer maneuver to get the shot would work. Just be wary of that flank - there's probably something going on there that we just haven't spotted yet. Saros posted:Take a look at the hetzer's view, there is a slight rise not shown on the topo-maps and combined with the stone wall it means I cant see anything south. This makes my current position almost totally useless. I'd agree with the flank protection. While Saros does has that little hump to contend with and may not be able to see the actual ground on the other side, he can certainly see any vehicles moving up through that area as their profile will make them visible over the obstacles. There's no rush at this point, no pressing need to get both Saros and Popete focused on the middle when we know they are moving something up dream flank and the hard-hitters are unaccounted for. As far as my part, I will probably end up simply sitting tight this turn. I don't know if they know I am here, and the forces they have behind their objective may be able to see me if I move. I'll do some testing before finalizing orders though, but I'm still reluctant to make much of a scene as I have infantry advancing all around me and don't want to draw fire/attention this direction until we're ready. FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jun 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
glynnenstein posted:
You may or may not also have smoke grenades, they can be used to help obscure sight. Just be mindful that our units are trying to get sight on them too and the smoke works both ways - so be considerate to the plans/orders of others who are trying to protect you from the very thing you're trying to hide from. They need to be able to see it to kill it!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Sit tight.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
abelian posted:Ideally, if you have time: the full turn from above without clicking on anything. Then a closeup of the action for a full turn, clicking on things as they become relevant. If a couple interesting things happen simultaneously, then maybe a replay of both zoomed in. We don't ask for much! I would also like a close-up replay of the destruction of Pedro's tank. Thanks!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
dtkozl posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuRUKYImd10 Ok, so nothing major to report aside from Pedro's inexplicable good fortune.  Saros looks like he's in the perfect position to put the heat on that Stuart, though it seems like their croc will be able to scoot away for the time being. After some analysis of the video we'll have to figure out what our next moves our. The next few turns will be really interesting, that's for sure.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
abelian posted:It can't see Pedro unless it moves quite a ways forward. I for one, sincerely hope it does!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
Late to the party, shame on me - though not a huge deal... Sit tight.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2016 04:05
|
|
|
I'm ready to support the infantry in the event that the allies try to cross the Death Road West, but don't think they are at all ready or in a position to do that yet. If anything, they may try to slip more people into the middle area from the SE side of the Big D like they did last turn, and with the mortars about to land on the Big D As far as my next move goes, I currently have a Jumbo pointed almost directly at my position from down Jackson lane or thereabouts, though I doubt if it has much of a chance of hitting me, much less seeing me. Still, they may not have any idea I'm here and we have artillery about to hit the Big D - my plan is to pop out and follow up on that barrage, which means I'll be hanging back this round unless someone sees a compelling reasons not to. With any luck, the Sherman will have been spotted and engaged by the Panther at that point - if not, then a little more caution is warranted. I could attempt to do a short bit of fire at the Shermans last location or around there to see if I can get him to button up. That could help with keeping our assets out of his sights until he can be finished off.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
In typical military fashion, my unit will hurry up and wait. If I'm buttoned up for whatever reason, then unbutton and wake up the crew as we'll be making our move shortly.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Well, I'm as good as dead if Klaus bites it - unfortunately there's very little I can do to assist him. This isn't the situation I had hoped for, but we have to act - For the Fatherland! Unbutton Offer a quick prayer Set target arc according to yellow lines in map Move from roughly B9 to C9 (edge forward enough to clear the north/south line of trees we've been using for cover) Pause for 30 seconds Reverse back to original position in B9 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2016 07:43
|
|
|
abelian posted:I keep missing Popete on Roll20. What he decides to do this turn could have a major impact on the game. You either take the chance that Klaus is able to take out both of the armored threats without getting taken out himself, or you send one of the redundant SPGs/tanks on the East to reinforce the West. Potentially lose a Panther and watch the west fold, or redistribute our armor to counter the threat. So long as this move can be made without exposing oneself too much to enemy fire, it's probably the best option we have. Given that allied infantry in the middle are taking fire from both the WW and Luchs, they're not in much of a position to threaten. Any bazooka charge is likely to meet a similar fate to the one on the West, if they even get the opportunity (will depend on how quickly the panther relocates). Look, once those 76s are down the allies are pretty much screwed. The route Popete has to take is not without risk, but it seems worth it if we can potentially shut down the greatest threat to our armor quickly. I might as well be throwing stones at them like some Ewok and I can't repel firepower of that magnitude. I need to get clear, I can't do any more good back here - the odds of me doing anything effective on my side are approximately 3720 to 1.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2016 06:26
|
|
|
Time to nope the gently caress out of here to someplace where I can actually do some good. Unbutton (if necessary) Move FAST to M6 Move to Q6 Move to R7 Face south If the fast move takes me through the Panther, please plot a gentle path around the back of it. 
FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2016 05:15
|
|
|
 FYI, if there are any folks that aren't following this anymore or don't want to shoulder the burden of ordering their units about, let me know and I will draft some up for approval  Yes, I will commandeer your unit. 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2016 05:32
|
|
|
Provisional orders for INinja (Wespe) Unbutton Target Briefly the infantry/ground at Q15 INinja, if you get back before the deadline, feel free to change these! Sorry if it gets you killed! 
FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2016 08:15
|
|
|
professor_curly posted:That sounds good to me regardless. If there aren't orders in for the Wespe in ~an hour I'll post something for it. Already done, but if you don't like them then I suppose you could issue new orders.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
I'm a little ticked at the outcome of this turn, I explicitly said in my ordersFrozenLiquidity posted:
The entire idea of this was to prevent it from doing exactly what it did, which is have the AI go into full retard mode when it found the Panther in its way. I don't think the Panther moved at all this turn, so I get the feeling the only reason I was a sitting duck for that shot to hit me was because this order was not honored.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 15:36 |
|
|
Have my tankmen commit harikari at their earliest convenience for disobeying orders. 
FrozenLiquidity fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jul 22, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2016 02:40
|
|