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Ramc posted:Man I am surprised you aren't just using a bunch of save states to revert whenever something permabad happens at this point.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:03
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I do save my saves. I have 1.1 thru 1.11 for the first update. 2.1 to 2.12 for 2nd update. All the way up to 15.1 to 15.8 so far. I move 30 steps, do combat, reload my save twice until none of my characters are dead, then save it again. When Els Drinker disappears I replay a half dozen times trying to find a way to keep it. It never works. Hell, just last update I noticed Dory isnt wearing a chest or arm armor. Went back and she had them on a minute ago, never took a single hit or disentegration/crumble spell... so why the hell does it constantly disappear? Just one of those things I decide to live with.
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Jul 16, 2016 10:43
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Well, I know that in Dark Sun, one of the "hard" factors was that bone/obsidian/stone equipment had decent chances of breaking randomly when eating or delivering a big blow... but that shouldn't include magical equipment.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:49
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I forgot to go get Nhamdi or whatever his name is. I think the Templar mentioned he was somewhere in the East when I was rereading the thread to see what I missed. To do this I just ran around until I found out where he was, then reloaded the save and beelined to it. The reason was that I can fall down a dozen pits and get attacked by 5 freyrs, 10 skeletons, or snakes or something. Then when I climb out of the pit there are 3 more freyrs and a bunch of Draxans to kill. Every single time I come out of the pit the random encounter resets. So I cheated because I need my guys at full health to do the final battle I assume.    I'm gonna kill the snakes.... 25HP each is one swing for Dory and Jameson.     Yeah I know I shouldn't let it happen, but I'm down here hanging out with you instead.    Right, lets go!     Oh, and then I need to keep this dude alive when the random encounter triggers. Maybe I don't, but I have to replay it twice because he goes to exit the area and gets almost there when a freyr catches him. Okay, that's done, so I heal, buff, and step into the portal.   The Lord Warrior says nothing can stop him and then runs through the portal stone in the middle.  What is that? A dozen skeletons?  On the right we've got Earth, Air, Fire, Water.  On the left is a little reading material.  And then the skeletons.   Jameson casts Turn Undead because why the hell not. Only one skeleton dies to it. The other 11 made their saving throws. Insane. So instead of having Hasted Jameson kill 3 skeletons via punching, he wastes a turn casting a useless spell. Fantastic start to this.  Then I realize that I'm so buffed and everyones AC is at -8 or -10 these things can't hit me. One hits Antwoman for 9 damage but big whoop.  Even Josie gets in on the face-punching. We move to the west and read the book.    Everyone in this entire game is double crossing everyone else. Templars double crossed by Draxans way back in the city update. Then double crossed again last update. Now the Lord Warrior is going to betray the Dragon and whatnot.    The scroll. No wonder I couldn't find any useful info on the Urn; he took it all!   10,000 experience for opening the thingy.  It looks just like a plain wooden staff.  Well then I think I should touch the staff to the 4 elements...     We get a glowing blue rune for each one which is on the floor because Dory's inventory is full. Also 5,000xp for each time we get one.   I think I know where the runes go.  50,000 experience for the first one I put on.      Nothing left to do...  So I walk through.  And I am immediately attacked by some tree creature thing. I'll kill it, but first lets look around. I am way bottom left at the end of the road.  Just north of me through the woods are 4 skeletons which are nothing to worry about.  The element of Earth symbol is at the bottom of the cross thing.  Fire to the east.  Wind up top.  And water to the west.  And in the middle is the big jerkface himself. So I'm thinking I need to kill all 4 elemental things, maybe put the 4 artifacts on the runes or something, then go inside and kill the Lord Warrior. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 14:13
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 I kill the little enemy that was at the starting point easily.  And then this woman comes running to me.  She's at half life roughly.  Won't live long? I've got some heals that I can give you!  Well poo poo.    Her backstory.   The protectors are not very good at protecting.      I had a choice of having her help me or just healing me which kills her. I need the heal more than the backup to be honest, so I picked that. I don't need healing for the hit points, but the PSI points and spell refreshes will be very helpful. Josie was down to her last Haste spell.    Before she suicides I ask her what needs to happen.  Well crap. I'm all buffed up and going to lose them...   And then she heals me and falls to the ground, dead.  I loot her.  A few skeletons enter the area, we murder them. They do not have the staff, so we go looking for skeletons who do.    Found it! Since I am about 10 steps from the west gate where the water elementals are, I go there.  They are level 14, really not impressive at all.  I take the scepter and touch it to the top of the block. The doorway opens. Well poo poo, no need to kill all the other elementals, I'll just waltz right in. http://i.imgur.com/Sozrg8B.gifv  That thing is loving huge.  Oh crap it saw me.  A few Air Elementals join the skeletons from the north.   Josie hastes the crew. Jameson hits the huge monster 6 times for that much damage. It's not actually that scary, the thing hit Antwoman for a total of 12 damage.  Dory punches it down to here. And then the next round Dory gets initiative...   That's what happens when the Tarrasque is killed. It spins in a circle, then flies into the screen which goes red for a moment. That was peanuts.  Jameson and Dory attack the Lord Warrior. Any damage you do to him, he does back to you. Mirror damage really sucks. Dory dies, but her last blow killed the Lord Warrior.  Whats this? Josie picked up a reincarnation spell... Dory, you're comin back!  Dory is back! Dory is also now a male Mul rather than a female half-giant. And the best part? She's at full health.  Jameson and Dory move north to get these enemies away from Josie. You can barely see Josies red hair in the center of them.  Josie runs away and summons an elemental while Jameson and Dory swing and swing and swing at these skeletons. http://i.imgur.com/XcVE9cP.gifv See? They are only level 9 or something, but they have like 200hp each. It takes a full attack from Dory and most from Jameson to kill a single one.  Dory stands triumphant. Also she stands with a penis now, but that can be explored later.    We are the champions, we are the champions, no time for losers 'cause we are the champions... of the woooooooorld.  Also that chick looks good for a dead girl.  I look at the statues and can tell where they go. Smith gets the hammer.  I get experience.  Forget what this one was called. She gets the cup. I get more experience.  Bottom left (musician) is holding the harp, and I am about to place the Fire Ruby on the top-left statue.  Holy balls. 700,000xp.  Fade to black. http://i.imgur.com/nFrVlDo.gifv The gif has white because I had to extend the gif halfway through to capture the extra stuff that wasn't there before. Deal with it. And that will do it. There is absolutely no way I would have beaten that game as a child. I had to use a walkthrough twice to get through it in my 30's.
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Jul 18, 2016 18:47
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I like that the very final battle feels like the one battle you breeze through more than any other, requiring no tricks or reloads.
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Jul 18, 2016 19:46
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PurpleXVI posted:I like that the very final battle feels like the one battle you breeze through more than any other, requiring no tricks or reloads. It did require one reload. On the second time I went around and killed all the elementals outside, then decided to go in from the top. This gained me a turn of "not get lightning bolted for 4x30 damage" by the Lord Warrior. The one turn was all I needed, Terrasque and Lord Warrior were both dead by the end of turn 2. None of Josies spells could hit the skeletons. No fireball, no meteor shower, no domination, nothing... Jameson was unable to cast "turn undead" so we actually had to fight hand to hand. But I agree: Very underwhelming for the final battle.
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Jul 18, 2016 19:52
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Phone posting- good job! This game seemed less enjoyable overall than its predecessor, though somewhat better looking. If it had been more coherent narrative wise, the glitchiness probably could've been forgiven.
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Jul 18, 2016 20:10
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Well, that was certainly... whatever that was. There's something alright somewhere in there but it's a real picking corn out of poop situation.
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Jul 18, 2016 20:30
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 You found the Tarrasque's only weakness: physical violence! Seriously though that was a pretty anticlimactic final battle. What does that "Level 70" number even mean? I think these devs had some numeracy problems, leading to underwhelming Tarrasques, massive amounts of easy money, etc. I agree that the previous game seemed much better/easier to follow.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:07
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If you do do another one of these, do the Al-Qadim: Genie's Curse one. I played it as a kid, did manage to beat it eventually and it has some nice sprite work. (I also found out much later that one of the artists on the game was a relative of mine. It was pretty neat to realize.)
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Jul 19, 2016 00:54
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Ramc posted:If you do do another one of these, do the Al-Qadim: Genie's Curse one. I played it as a kid, did manage to beat it eventually and it has some nice sprite work. Friend of my father worked on the art too(Edit: or it's the same guy, there's only one person mentioned in the art credit...); he even tried to give me a copy back in the day during a visit, but it turned out the box had been empty. Probably for the best, given how a lot of the other AD&D PCRPGs went for me at the time. Speaking of which, I never got this far into the game due to unavoidable bugs, but I have to say that's one wimpy looking Tarrasque. I'd comment, but I think the 3rd ed. stats are bleeding into what I can recall of the 2nd ed. version. As for the constant spell failures, those skeletons might have been Death Knights, which I believe had a good chunk of MR. If you're looking to do another one, there's the previously mentioned Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance. Quick(ish), easy, lots of stupid tricks, and, in a departure from this game, casters dominate everything. Just in case you got sick of everything bouncing off of sky-high MR scores. Unoriginal One fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 05:09
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I am still sort of mad that I didn't fix the Jann issue. I've gone back through my saves and been unable to figure out a way to do it. The Sultan dies, but every other area is cleared so there's nothing I can do to finish that side quest. Poor Magnolia, she's probably in a Draxan prison right now.
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Jul 19, 2016 17:26
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Hey, I just found and read this thread, and wanted to say I enjoyed it. I remember seeing this game when it came out, but I never got around to playing it. The Arena All-Stars showed me what I missed, which was a lot more bugs than any of the Gold Box games had.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:05
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Unoriginal One posted:Friend of my father worked on the art too(Edit: or it's the same guy, there's only one person mentioned in the art credit...); he even tried to give me a copy back in the day during a visit, but it turned out the box had been empty. Probably for the best, given how a lot of the other AD&D PCRPGs went for me at the time. I'm not certain but there were at least two guys doing sprite work, because he told me he only did SOME of them, and I think there were two guys under his job title in the manual credits. I don't have the manual here though.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:26
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Ramc posted:I'm not certain but there were at least two guys doing sprite work, because he told me he only did SOME of them, and I think there were two guys under his job title in the manual credits. I don't have the manual here though. Ah. I did a quick google to see if I was recalling his participation correctly, and his name was the only one listed as an art credit in the first list I found, but I'd hardly call it a comprehensive search, and the credit list was quite short so I image it wasn't the full list.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:30
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Of course Dory punched a Tarrasque to death. 
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Jul 20, 2016 09:25
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This is all I see for credits in the manual.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:18
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It really feels wrong that three random mooks are more of a threat to you than the loving Tarrasque.
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Jul 21, 2016 04:58
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I'm not familiar with the "reincarnation" spell. Is coming back as a different gender/race part of its effects or is that just another bug?
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Jul 21, 2016 18:09
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Cathode Raymond posted:I'm not familiar with the "reincarnation" spell. Is coming back as a different gender/race part of its effects or is that just another bug? quote:With this spell, the wizard can bring back to life a person who has died. The essence of the dead I just realized Josie 2.0 never even got to cast a single level 7.
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Jul 21, 2016 18:34
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Cathode Raymond posted:I'm not familiar with the "reincarnation" spell. Is coming back as a different gender/race part of its effects or is that just another bug? If it's anything at all like the Pathfinder version of the spell, that is exactly how it's supposed to work: it's the same consciousness, transferred to an unfamiliar body e: hey, nice, I was right! I had a feeling that a spell with that distinct possibility of loving you over would be one of D&D's earliest and most popular innovations 
SatansOnion fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 18:51
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I'm not sure if it used the same reincarnation list as the actual 2nd ed game, but there were two versions of it. One of them was for wizards, the other for clerics(and druids). The wizard one mostly brought you back as something humanoid. The cleric one had a chance of bringing you back as a goddamn badger.
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Jul 21, 2016 21:08
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Can badgers dual wield?
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Jul 21, 2016 21:09
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Best as I can recall Reincarnation was meant for non-Cleric casters, who had access to the much superior Raise Dead/Resurrect series. Wizards could at least polymorph you back into your original race, but you had to hope that the dice were on your side if all you had was a Druid.
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Jul 21, 2016 22:54
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Unoriginal One posted:Best as I can recall Reincarnation was meant for non-Cleric casters, who had access to the much superior Raise Dead/Resurrect series. Wizards could at least polymorph you back into your original race, but you had to hope that the dice were on your side if all you had was a Druid. Well, Raise Dead and Resurrect A) had stat loss and B) had a chance of failure if the rezzed character had too low Constitution, at which point they could only be revived with a Limited Wish or Wish. I seem to recall that Reincarnation doesn't check for a resurrection roll.
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Jul 21, 2016 23:10
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Spermy Smurf posted:This is all I see for credits in the manual. Oh, we were talking about the Genie's Curse not Wake of the Ravager. I did just look it up the PDF and he is in there under Cyberlore studios' art department so I am at least not hallucinating.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:02
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PurpleXVI posted:Well, Raise Dead and Resurrect A) had stat loss and B) had a chance of failure if the rezzed character had too low Constitution, at which point they could only be revived with a Limited Wish or Wish. I seem to recall that Reincarnation doesn't check for a resurrection roll. I want to say that Resurrect's advantage over Raise Dead was that it didn't have the stat loss and had a much larger window to use it in(which I think Reincarnate also had?), with the trade off of being a much higher level spell, but I might be mixing it up with the 3rd ed. versions. Casting time might have also been a factor too, thinking on it..
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Jul 22, 2016 03:10
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Unoriginal One posted:I want to say that Resurrect's advantage over Raise Dead was that it didn't have the stat loss and had a much larger window to use it in(which I think Reincarnate also had?), with the trade off of being a much higher level spell, but I might be mixing it up with the 3rd ed. versions. Casting time might have also been a factor too, thinking on it.. In the P&P game, Resurrection had a very expensive material component (a 5000 GP plus diamond or some such) but could bring back someone dead a very long time (centuries) and without a body. Raise Dead needed a mostly whole corpse and wouldn't work on full-blooded elves. Baldur's Gate was frustrating because it was possible for someone to die so hard their body quite literally exploded, but nothing could bring them back from that despite Resurrection being in the game and otherwise following 2nd edition rules very faithfully. So, you either reloaded or lived without that character. Their gear, miraculously, survived fully intact despite their flesh and bone being scattered over a radius of several metres. 2nd edition was really stupid, and I say that as someone who played it to death.
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Jul 22, 2016 03:50
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JustJeff88 posted:Baldur's Gate was frustrating because it was possible for someone to die so hard their body quite literally exploded, but nothing could bring them back from that despite Resurrection being in the game and otherwise following 2nd edition rules very faithfully. So, you either reloaded or lived without that character. Their gear, miraculously, survived fully intact despite their flesh and bone being scattered over a radius of several metres. That was because when someone in the party got chunkolated, for some reason the game also deleted them from the loving party roster, which resulted in them literally disappearing, since there was no character image to target and corpses weren't targetable entities anyway. The Infinity Engine had some serious issues at times.
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Jul 22, 2016 05:51
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JustJeff88 posted:In the P&P game, Resurrection had a very expensive material component (a 5000 GP plus diamond or some such) but could bring back someone dead a very long time (centuries) and without a body. Raise Dead needed a mostly whole corpse and wouldn't work on full-blooded elves. Baldur's Gate was frustrating because it was possible for someone to die so hard their body quite literally exploded, but nothing could bring them back from that despite Resurrection being in the game and otherwise following 2nd edition rules very faithfully. So, you either reloaded or lived without that character. Their gear, miraculously, survived fully intact despite their flesh and bone being scattered over a radius of several metres. My gaming group never actually got rid of our old 2E books, so let's look this up... Partly right; Raise Dead costs the target 1 point of Constitution permanently, didn't work on elves, required the target to make a system shock roll to successfully come back to life, and the target is brought back in a weakened state requiring a minimum of one day of bed rest for each day they spent dead. Oh, and there was a maximum upper limit on the number of times Raise Dead would work on the same target based on the target's starting constitution score, so die too many times and Raise Dead stops working on you. The time window was a modest day per caster level of the priest. Also the body has to be mostly intact and it doesn't work on creatures who die from reaching their maximum age. Resurrection does away with most of the restrictions - it works on a creature who's been reduced to a bare skeleton, restoring them completely to full health and allows them to immediately engage in strenuous activity. It also works on elves, has a much more generous time limit (10 years per level of the priest). There is no constitution penalty and there is no limit to the number of times a creature can be resurrected. Unlike Raise Dead, it has material components (the priest needs his/her holy symbol as well as holy water). However, the priest casting the spell instead immediately ages three years and can't cast any spells or do much else until they've rested (full bed rest) for a number of days equal to the level of the creature being raised. The target must still make a successful system shock roll to survive coming back to life. Note that unlike later editions, Raise Dead / Resurrection possess neither expensive material components nor level drain penalties. Reincarnate, in contrast, is a hilariously awful option for priests. At the same level as Resurrection, the only benefit it possesses over Raise Dead/Resurrection is that it indeed does not require a system shock roll. However, there are some major loving caveats to using the spell as written - the table provided only has three of the PC races - human, elf, and gnome - with a sum total chance of 18% for rolling one of these, with an additional 15% chance of "DM's Choice' where if your DM was super nice he'd give you another PC race that qualified you in the same class. However - HOWEVER, even if you were an elf who won the lottery and reincarnated back as an elf, you straight up lost half your HP and half your character levels permanently - no way to restore it. If you happened to reincarnate as a difference race where your existing class was no longer valid or possible, you instead lose half your HP and start back at level 1. If you reincarnate as something incapable of taking PC class levels (such as a fox or a badger) or a monster race, you lose half your HP, all of your class abilities, and can't gain class levels or experience points in any class unless your DM is willing to sit down and do the legwork to design rules for a new PC race and allowable classes / advancement limits for your new race. Druids, in contrast to their later 3rd edition/Pathfinder hilarity, not only gain no access to Raise Dead/Resurrection whatsoever, they don't get access to Reincarnate either. There was never a helpful reason to actually cast Reincarnate. Ever.
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Jul 22, 2016 06:58
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Yeah, I played entirely too much Baldur's Gate, so while I can remember minute such as Ruby Ray of Reversal and Glitterdust punching past most forms of anti-dispel protections due to their schools, stuff like the distinctions between res spells tended to fall by the wayside because you generally had to reload if a party member died due to -10 HP being a rather small threshold. I still kind of annoyed that they tied that to difficulty, so you couldn't get rid of it without turning the game into a cakewalk, but I've digressed enough already. Though I could have sworn that Druids got Reincarnate. Oh well.
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Jul 22, 2016 14:15
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Could you repeatedly reincarnate to use the 'halve HP, go to level 1' to get crazy HP totals?
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Jul 22, 2016 14:59
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You know, for a game that's supposed to take place on a barren desert world there sure were alot of green areas.
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Jul 22, 2016 15:00
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Olesh posted:My gaming group never actually got rid of our old 2E books, so let's look this up... I still have a pdf of the 2nd edition Player's Handbook, but I for some reason did not think to consult it when I posted that - thanks for checking. I'm a little dismayed at how many things that I had wrong, and I would have bet money that druids had reincarnate because I was sure that that was their only means of raising the dead. I thought that they can't raise the dead in the Infinity Engine games because Reincarnate wasn't implemented. Jaheira can, but she has a special ability called Harper's Call that isn't part of a druid's repertoire. In any event, if your DM stuck hard to the rules for raising the dead then he's probably a dick. Reincarnate would have been a decent idea if it was the only druidic option and/or it could be used on someone who failed the system shock roll of Raise Dead. Thematically it makes sense as you can rationalise it as someone's mortal body being too damaged to accept the soul back, so you give them a new body. Pity that nobody thought of that. Starhawk64 posted:You know, for a game that's supposed to take place on a barren desert world there sure were alot of green areas. Thank you - I thought that that was just me who thought that. There aren't quite as many in Shattered Lands, but I had the same thought while reading that LP. I'm not really bothered as I don't like apocalyptic scenarios. Athas has a lot of fascinating lore, but having bone swords that break on contact and constantly having to fret about water supplies doesn't say "fun elf games!!" to me. I can't fully articulate why I don't like those facets of Athas, but if I had to guess I would say that it hits a little too close to home. You could make a case that we all* live on a dying planet that's almost out of natural resources and is run by immensely powerful sociopaths with no regard for human decency. *Apologies to any extraterrestrials who are viewing this thread.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:25
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Athas does actually have rather a lot of green areas, most of them are just well away from the main region of the game, the Tyr region. The closest major one being across the Ringing Mountains... and being full of cannibal halflings and all sorts of fun monsters like giant carnivorous sloths. There are also plenty of oases and stuff, there's just a lot more wasteland than green, and the green is endangered by moron Defilers casting their spells all over the place. Also, keep in mind that 2nd ed clerics as presented in the core book are not, if you read carefully, how clerics are exactly intended to work. "Core" clerics have access to all cleric spells, and also all druid spells. But the fine print reads that in most cases it makes more sense for the GM to create clerics of specific pantheons with limited spell access and some sort of special abilities or expanded weapon access to make up for the curtailing of their power. Druids were actually specifically an example of a "limited" cleric variant, with shapeshifting and some sharp weapons to make up for not being able to cast every spell in the book. Of course, few people ever actually did that, in my experience, especially not the videogames.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:11
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