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That's why offering a positive reward for voting is a better idea. If it's something like a tax rebate, it amounts to basically the same thing anyway. People end up with more money for voting than they do for not voting but it's portrayed as the government rewarding people for voting instead of punishing people for not voting.
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Aug 1, 2016 08:07
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The idea of politics being some kind of sport that you "win" or "lose" is one of my biggest loving pet peeves. I still get wound up about political commentators on television comparing a potential electoral pact between Labour and the Lib Dems in the event of the Conservatives getting a plurality to "Chelsea and Arsenal combing their points to overtake Man Utd in the Premiership" or something along those lines and I'm pretty sure that was after the exit polls in 2010.
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Aug 1, 2016 09:33
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Tesseraction posted:I think you often get a little tied up in trying to defend Blair's legacy and don't appreciate that our criticisms of Blairism aren't 'literally everything' but the intellectually hollow yes-men and cult of personality he set up around himself. He had good ideas. Hell in 1982 he wrote a rather interesting letter to Michael Foot as you no doubt recall http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jun/16/past.labour I think my biggest problem with the Blairites right now is that they don't actually defend his record, with the notable exception of Iraq, at all. They're basically Cameronites who argue from a position to the right of Blair that his government overspent on everything and only really share his desire to control every aspect of the party.
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Aug 1, 2016 12:02
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Jedit posted:Good news, public sector pensions are no longer linked to final salary but against an average of your salary during your employment! Good news unless you're a public sector worker approaching retirement age, that is, as you've spent all those years paying into a scheme thinking it would suffice only to be told the terms have changed and you've lost most of it. Firefighters are allowed to retire at age 50 with full pension if they've done twenty years service, but those who have been promoted to positions when they're not actively running into burning buildings like station managers, divisional officers etc. usually stay on longer. As soon as it got announced they were changing pensions to be based on career average salary instead of final salary, my dad and basically every other firefighter who was eligible pretty much instantly retired to keep the pension they signed up to. A lot of them pretty much got instantly rehired as private consultants on part time hours, too. The guys who were a little too young/hadn't been in the service for quite long got massively hosed.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:20
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Identity politics provide a convenient cover for left wing political parties to become liberal parties while still holding onto their supporters who are motivated by social justice. That doesn't mean that identity politics aren't important and necessary and that minority groups don't get marginalised by organisations with otherwise correct politics.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:28
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Which is why it's doubly hilarious they put up a Liverpool MP as their stalking horse. They set Eagle up for a massive fall and let her think she might actually be leader out of it all. Sad.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:00
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JFairfax posted:to be fair it's her fault if she ever thought she had a chance, even without being the stalking horse She must have really thought that she'd done enough to make people think she'd tried her hardest to make it work out with Corbyn. One of the things I'll never get out of the whole Labour coup is how little the PLP understand the Labour membership and how to get elected by them even with almost a year to analyse where they went wrong the first time Corbyn was elected. Like when you're presenting yourself as the hard nosed electable type, the most basic loving skill you should be able to demonstrate is how to read an electorate.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:07
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forkboy84 posted:Perhaps in the 21st century we should look for a path in between liberalism's selfishness & Stalinism's terrifying authoritarianism. Are you suggesting that the truth might be somewhere in the middle?
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Aug 2, 2016 09:53
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 From The Sun so take it with a grain of salt but it's still funny how easily the Murdoch press turned on Danczuk. When are the NEC going to decide what to do with him btw? He's been suspended since January.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:06
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Zephro posted:Lol there's no way that chat log is real. "What about Eurovision, darts, the price of alcohol" I prefer "You don't take Eurovision into consideration!" myself. The Sun are accusing him of using his constituency office to have sex. Corbyn has more than enough ammunition against him to call for the whip to be withdrawn for bringing the party into disrepute and the fact that he hasn't shows he isn't the ideologue monster trying to get rid of everyone in the Labour Party who disagrees with him that some of his opponents paint him as. Considering how much damage the Tories have done to the NHS, I don't think this fight is over yet.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:16
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Breath Ray posted:I believe it but it's not particularly damning, just embarrassing like most drunk stuff one does at uni Why do people keep saying stuff like this? I did a lot of poo poo at university that I'd rather forget but putting my dick inside a dead farm animal is way beyond any of that. Did I have a sheltered uni life or something?
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Aug 3, 2016 09:00
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Cerv posted:I don't know. There's a clear difference between rubbing your dick on a pork chop and putting it in the mouth of a severed pig's head and calling it him putting his cock on a plate of food is just as disingenuous as making out that he had full on intercourse with a pig carcass
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Aug 3, 2016 10:23
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Owen Smith is doing a speech on Facebook Live. 50 people are watching.
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Aug 3, 2016 20:30
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JFairfax posted:what is smith's facebook page? I still can't find it when searching https://www.facebook.com/owensmithmp/
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Aug 3, 2016 20:41
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Steven Woolfe has been excluded from the UKIP leadership battle for submitting a late application. Here's a piece about the new favourite to get the job, Lisa Duffy.
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Aug 4, 2016 09:00
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Remember how Owen Smith did a live speech on Facebook yesterday and got all of 50 views? Corbyn's doing one now and he's got 3000 views. This leadership challenge is so ridiculous. Is this seriously the best they could do?
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Aug 4, 2016 11:29
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LemonyTang posted:I mean, it is a bit silly, but it's an unadvertised livestream of a press conference at 11:30am midweek. He's being asked questions by ITV/BBC etc. Yeah, and he's still getting 60x the viewership Owen Smith got last night. Cerv posted:
50 views when he was live
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Aug 4, 2016 11:40
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think I'd use the live count of a video feed on social media as any evidence of popularity or reach - they don't necessarily update in real time. I agree that popularity on social media doesn't reflect who's going to win a general election, but I'd say it's a pretty big indicator of who's going to win an internal election where the people motivated enough to spend money to vote are probably the same kind of people motivated enough to like and follow their favoured candidate on social media.
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Aug 4, 2016 11:48
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Guavanaut posted:The last two kings called Charles. Didn't work out too well for either of them as I recall. I heard that he wanted to be called George because his favourite king was George III.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:50
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kustomkarkommando posted:I don't get the National Education Service thing as education is a devolved matter. Increased funding? From what I recall the last time he floated it, he just wants education to be free at the point of access at all levels for all ages.
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Aug 4, 2016 16:37
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 or why a split is a terrible idea under FPTP evidence number #8675309
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Aug 5, 2016 06:17
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loving hell. I think Watson's torpedoed the reputation he'd made for himself as a guy who can get the dirty work done with this whole shambles. I don't think anything he tried went his way.
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Aug 8, 2016 12:19
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I wonder how the coup hilariously backfires on the Labour right next. Maybe Owen Smith gets kicked out of the party for breaking all the draconian rules they introduced about uncomradely behaviour by rolling his eyes when Corbyn's speaking or ironically calling him a Blairite or something.
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Aug 8, 2016 12:47
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Why is his Twitter icon an IWW poster?
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Aug 8, 2016 12:56
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Andy Burnham has been selected as the mayoral candidate for Greater Manchester and thus almost certainly mayor elect meaning the PLP is losing a guy who started out as a true Blairite and improbably ended up one of the better Labour MPs (not that that's saying too much).
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Aug 9, 2016 11:13
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I just love the complete lack of understanding that, like, none of the EFTA nations like Britain (Switzerland and Liechtenstein are competing tax shelters, Norway likes being a big fish in a small pond and Iceland still hasn't forgotten how y'all handled the Icesave fiasco) so why on earth would we let the UK join in? Any mention of anything like this prior to the referendum was dismissed as scaremongering or "talking Britain down" and answered with an argument that Britain is so special and important and brilliant that everyone would bend over backwards to trade with us.
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Aug 10, 2016 02:12
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Steve Rotheram has been selected as Labour's candidate for Liverpool mayor, so that looks like another good egg/Corbyn ally out of Parliament.
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Aug 10, 2016 10:17
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LemonyTang posted:I'm really curious the explanation for the greens polling 7% after their GE vote was 3.8%. That's almost double their GE votes at a time when apparently a lot of Greens are returning to Labour (Corbyn)? That poll looks like it's massively overestimating the Greens and underestimating the Tories, Labour and UKIP by a few points each compared to most polls. Most accurate EU referendum doesn't mean poo poo, comparing it to polling for a general election is comparing apples and oranges, there's no way that the Greens would get anywhere near 7%.
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Aug 11, 2016 10:46
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Alchenar posted:Labour polling through the spring was a steady 25-33% of 2015 GE voters abandoning Labour. From February through Theresa May becoming Prime Minister, every poll bar two had Labour up on their 2015 election result. forkboy84 posted:Considering we're in the midst of a fairly acrimonious leadership contest that is frankly descending into farce with the chat from Smith that he wants it to go on for even longer that's not terrible. Obviously it's not good, but considering where Labour are right now I'm surprised it's that close. Pissflap's posted poll was much more what I'd have guessed. That's a YouGov poll. YouGov had Labour ahead of the Tories before the referendum.
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Aug 11, 2016 12:13
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Carborundum posted:I read a lot about 'the PLP' in this thread like it's a monolithic Goliath staggering around throwing rocks at Corbyn. Who are the arch-Blarite neoliberal diehards MPs encouraging all this? Connor McGinn, son of Sinn Fein councillor, was organising. No-one is sure who was actually behind it in the first place, hence the name "chicken coup", but it seems fairly likely Hillary Benn was involved considering it was his midnight phonecall to Corbyn that kicked off the planned resignations.
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Aug 11, 2016 15:43
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icantfindaname posted:Wait are you telling me the Blairites actually still are defending Iraq? This is my favourite article of all time because McTernan claims if we never invaded Iraq, Iran and Libya would have nukes now. He also believes the Iraq War was such a resounding success that we should go back for round 3. I love reading McTernan's stuff because it's so obvious he shouldn't be in the Labour Party but he's the kind of loving idiot that Blair attracted and we're still suffering with. Bizarrely, he endorsed Galloway in the London mayoral election despite his hardon for the Iraq War.
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Aug 11, 2016 17:59
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XMNN posted:the possibility of Owen smith trying to adopt left wing policies and being betrayed by the bastards in the plp relies on the fairly charitable assumption that he wont tack right of his own volition Oh, he will absolutely but it won't be enough for the fuckers. Miliband was engraving "controls on immigration" into loving rocks and he was still too left wing for them. El Grillo posted:Also who actually are the hardcore Blairite faction in the PLP? Just out of interest. I guess Danczuk, Mann? Benn? Who else? Mann and Danczuk are more Blue Labour flirting with UKIP types. The Blairite faction are more explicitly Europhillic and can be pretty much identified by Progress affiliation. The most prominent being Chuka Umunna, Tristram Hunt and Liz Kendall.
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Aug 11, 2016 18:05
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icantfindaname posted:so is Corbyn for real literally the only figure in the Labour Party who's not so ruthlessly Third Way they'd make the Clintons blush? that's the impression i get from this thread His shadow cabinet. A few of the soft left types who resigned during the coup but weren't part of the initial plot and being told when to resign by McGinn like Lisa Nandy, Nia Griffith and Louise Haigh (though Owen Smith was in that group in my mind until it became obvious he was a self serving careerist.) quote:While the so-called official opposition continues to tear itself apart with their public campaign against itself, it is fitting that the latest person to try to oust their leader is Owen Smith - the one man they can rely on to put party before country. Plaid Cymru really loving hate Owen Smith lmao. 71BC: Spartacus's slave rebellion is crushed and all survivors are crucified. GEORGE W BUSHI fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 18:20
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The Saurus posted:What the gently caress are you smoking, boyo? Welsh is not an identity politics tick box in 21st century Britain, as much as I wish it was. Not even the Welsh care about how much the Welsh are getting hosed over.
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Aug 12, 2016 03:12
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The whole militant thing is part of the whole series of weird paradoxes the Labour right apply to Corbyn supporters. Like all Corbyn supporters are young and naive yet are all members of a movement that got expelled from the party thirty years ago and how all Corbyn supporters are wealthy middle class champagne socialists yet charging £25 for new members to vote will drive away more Corbyn voters than Smith voters. Same thing with how they can't decide whether to depict Corbyn as a kindly old man with some nice ideas but no leadership skills being puppeteered by the villainous trifecta of McDonnell, Milne or Lansman or a destructive Trotskyite hellbent on splitting the Labour Party. 75AD: The Romans conquer Wales.
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Aug 12, 2016 09:56
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Um, did anyone post Michael Foster's Mail on Sunday article. I guess he took losing his court case badly. 1995: the Schengen Agreement comes into effect GEORGE W BUSHI fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 17:41
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Junkozeyne posted:You'd think with Corbyn being left and all the comparison would be to the "Roter Frontkämpferbund", the communist party equivalent to the Sturmabteilung. They had to explain both in the headline and the body what the SA are, that comparison might be a bit over the intended audience's heads.
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Aug 15, 2016 18:16
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enough. drat you communist trotsky Hitler sympathiser Corbyn!!!!
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Cerv posted:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mp-simon-danczuk-arrested-after-estranged-wife-karen-taken-to-hospital-in-spain-a3321301.html Yeah, I used to think he was just a rent-a-gob bellend but it's pretty obvious the guy has some serious issues that he needs to deal with and I don't think he's capable of doing that while also being an MP.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:25
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Why is looking at pictures of Ant and Dec part of a political debate?
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Aug 17, 2016 12:57
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ronya posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37104864 We don't know. We would all hope that it happens quickly, we would all hope they stop being a murderous terrorist organisation and try and bring about peace EDIT: wait wtf "Owen's experience of helping to bring about peace in Northern Ireland is that eventually all parties who truly believe in delivering peace have to be around the table." What did Owen Smith have to do with the Northern Ireland peace process lmao. Wasn't he still working for Pfizer back then? GEORGE W BUSHI fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 14:19
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