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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:This thread's gone mad - Corn Fridge is making good points. Dealers aint going nowhere yet. The thread has also only thus far been discussion regarding buying new cars, when new car dealerships will be literally entirely unaffected by Vroom, even if it's super successful
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Sep 1, 2016 12:42
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West SAAB Story posted:I was not actually attempting to compare a simple cabbie transaction to a purchase for the sake of the differences of cost of ownership, et al. I was doing so just to illustrate that this concept of ownership is something that much of the current target demographic doesn't seem to care as much about (and a throwaway joke inferring their weakness with unhappy real life situations). I think it's less 'don't care about ownership' and more 'jesus gently caress a driving appliance ccosts $20k' but that's me.
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Sep 1, 2016 12:44
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Liquid Communism posted:I think it's less 'don't care about ownership' and more 'jesus gently caress a driving appliance ccosts $20k' but that's me. Yeah its this
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Sep 1, 2016 12:48
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Bogan Krkic posted:I'm laffing big time at the suggestion that couch and mattress salespeople don't also work on commission and upsell / pressure customers into sales / extended warranties etc CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Ikea also havee upsells and subtle ways to make you buy more poo poo than you were expecting. They also do have commission sales people annd bullshit practices. They design the store so you walk out with a bunch of poo poo you never thought of and Swedish Meatballs. The store design is classic bullshit sales tactics. I have never been subjected to upsell or pressure tactics when shopping at Ikea. Maybe it's just an American thing to have bullshit aggressive salespeople. Does Ikea even have extended warranties? Yes, their stores are designed to get you past every single product they offer, but I don't consider that a bullshit sales tactic, unless you're spectacularly weak-willed.
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Sep 1, 2016 12:58
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I mean, in theory you can get a base-model Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, or Honda Fit for 12-15k, but here's the catch : Dealers don't stock these in bare-bones basic models.
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Sep 1, 2016 12:58
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Liquid Communism posted:I mean, in theory you can get a base-model Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, or Honda Fit for 12-15k, but here's the catch : Dealers don't stock these in bare-bones basic models. Those models literally only exist so the ads can say "New car! Starting at $11,999*!", to get people to visit the stealerships.
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Sep 1, 2016 12:59
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KozmoNaut posted:Those models literally only exist so the ads can say "New car! Starting at $11,999*!", to get people to visit the stealerships. Yup. See my first post in the thread, because that sort of thing is exactly what I'm looking for as a getting to work without having to fix it car so I can keep my wrenching to projects.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:01
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KozmoNaut posted:I have never been subjected to upsell or pressure tactics when shopping at Ikea. Maybe it's just an American thing to have bullshit aggressive salespeople. Does Ikea even have extended warranties? I'm not American, but Ikea is just about the only store without the bullshit upsell agressive salespeople, and like mentioned above, they do their upselling in other ways. They're an outlier in the home furnishing market, in terms of sales techniques, and they are very aware of that and use it as a selling point.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:01
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fridge corn posted:But where are you going to test drive this car? Sit in it? See how different colours look irl? What about competitive pricing? The new car market is too volatile to leave pricing up to some nationwide service, when locally other dealers could run rings around. People arent going to buy cars sight unseen and wherever you go to look at them there will be someone trying to sell you something Haha. It wasn't a hypothetical scenario. I was just describing exactly how Tesla has been selling cars for several years. You sit in it and test drive it at the showroom or service center. Which works exactly like a dealership, only without the slimeballs on commission. Some places are far from service centers, so Tesla has touring popup stores with demo cars. If you want to check out the exact config you want in person, a 3rd party dealership is no guarantee, they don't stock all configs in all colors. The people who work for Tesla are definitely in sales mode, they do offer financing which I'm sure makes them more money and they probably have some sort of marketing mechanics to track their efficiency. But the guy showing me the car doesn't have to sell it right there and then in order to feed his kids. So no "always be closing", no pushing, no switcharoo finance trickery. The end result isn't necessarily a bed of roses, but it's definitely a bed with less poo poo. At the end of this, you might not get an OEM showroom in every town in every country. That would be hideously complicated and expensive for the OEM. But you do get a real threat to the dealer, he can be factored out of the deal, which means they have to change how they operate. It could mean not taking part in the purchase transaction, not employing sales personnel but just invoicing a fixed amount for car storage and delivery. E: competitive pricing happens between overtly between OEMs since MSRP actually matters and between dealers on who can fulfill delivery the cheapest. Ola fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 13:04
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Liquid Communism posted:Yup. Grab a used Corolla/Camry or Civic/Accord. As long as they aren't too rusty, they'll go pretty much forever without stranding you and cost nothing to repair, if something should go wrong. Buying a new car to save money rarely works out. Bogan Krkic posted:I'm not American, but Ikea is just about the only store without the bullshit upsell agressive salespeople, and like mentioned above, they do their upselling in other ways. They're an outlier in the home furnishing market, in terms of sales techniques, and they are very aware of that and use it as a selling point. Maybe that's why I prefer to buy my furniture there, and obviously because it's hella inexpensive. I prefer the sales tactics to be passive rather than overtly aggressive. Other places could learn a lot from them. On the other hand, I bought some stuff from Ilva, which is a higher-end chain here in Denmark. The salespeople were extremely friendly and very helpful with no pressure at all. So maybe other places are learning.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:08
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Ola posted:Haha. It wasn't a hypothetical scenario. I was just describing exactly how Tesla has been selling cars for several years. You sit in it and test drive it at the showroom or service center. Which works exactly like a dealership, only without the slimeballs on commission. Some places are far from service centers, so Tesla has touring popup stores with demo cars. Tesla is at the moment a low volume niche product and also a start up with no pre-existing infrastructure. It's impossible to say if their sales model is even applicable to the established high volume manufacturers, so yes, it is a hypothetical scenario
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Sep 1, 2016 13:21
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fridge corn posted:Tesla is at the moment a low volume niche product and also a start up with no pre-existing infrastructure. It's impossible to say if their sales model is even applicable to the established high volume manufacturers, so yes, it is a hypothetical scenario My friend, I think you might want to reexamine the meaning of 'hypothetical'
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Sep 1, 2016 13:27
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Bogan Krkic posted:My friend, I think you might want to reexamine the meaning of 'hypothetical' Why?
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Sep 1, 2016 13:31
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Saga posted:As I understand it, the car industry's franchise model gives the franchisee a little bit more freedom of action and, potentially, profit. Hence the lousy treatment of customers. Franchised dealerships aren't a necessity for the customer, they're useful for the manufacturers and, if they rape the customer hard enough, the franchisee. This also explains why no franchisee wants to give an out the door price and the byzantine 20 step process that the customer has to negotiate to avoid getting super-hosed. The franchise agreements are very protective of the franchisee because US auto dealers are a cartel. It's fairly difficult to find a competent dealer franchisee who is willing to put up the capital necessary to open a dealer point.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:33
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fridge corn posted:Why? Because the thing you are describing as hypothetical, does actually exist.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:38
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Bogan Krkic posted:Because the thing you are describing as hypothetical, does actually exist. It exists insofar as tesla is concerned but not within the realm of the established high volume manufacturers.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:53
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Bogan Krkic posted:Because the thing you are describing as hypothetical, does actually exist. Yes, but the market for six figure fad-mobiles and actual cars that normal people buy is a bit different. When you're buying a toy, test drives, and kicking the tires isn't as important.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:55
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fridge corn posted:It exists insofar as tesla is concerned but not within the realm of the established high volume manufacturers. No, not yet. That's what we're saying, they should and could trade like that, at least in areas where dealers are dicks and it isn't illegal to circumvent them.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:17
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KozmoNaut posted:On the other hand, I bought some stuff from Ilva, which is a higher-end chain here in Denmark. The salespeople were extremely friendly and very helpful with no pressure at all. So maybe other places are learning. Was this an Ilva-owned store staffed by Ilva employees? Or was it Mads' Furniture Holdings LLC DBA Ilva Of Aalborg? edit: the customer experience will always suck under the franchise model because the dealer will blame the OEM and the OEM will blame the dealer.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:28
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I love the dealer model. You get old women over paying to subsidize your below cost purchase. It is the back bone of America you commies. The old saddle you with unpayable government debt and you make them pay $30k for a corolla.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:34
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 14:40
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KozmoNaut posted:Grab a used Corolla/Camry or Civic/Accord. As long as they aren't too rusty, they'll go pretty much forever without stranding you and cost nothing to repair, if something should go wrong. Buying a new car to save money rarely works out. Yeah, just keeping an eye out for a decent one locally. We use a ton of salt, so rust is a thing, and a lot of them got riced to gently caress and are being sold on to avoid having to fix them. Looked at a couple ex-cop Crown Vics as well, they're like driving a couch. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Was this an Ilva-owned store staffed by Ilva employees? Or was it Mads' Furniture Holdings LLC DBA Ilva Of Aalborg? Hell, Best Buy figured out 15 years ago that commissioned salespeople put off customers, so as soon as other major electronics retailers moved into their area they got rid of commission.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:41
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fridge corn posted:Would you however, purchase a sofa or a matress without first sitting/laying on it??? Honest question here, has the "internet startup mattress company" fad not caught on over there yet? There's a bunch of them in the US now where you just pick a size and order it online. They work around the fear of not liking it by giving an actual generous return policy, where they will send someone to pick it up and donate it if you don't like it after 90 days or so. Real refund and all that, every local store here will only give you store credit and you have to haul it back on your own dime. I think that return policy is going to be one of the last hurdles, once you get past the legal protections. And I think that's something that might be solvable when automakers care less about selling the individual person on the idea of a car, than they do about selling that person the idea of a pay per use on a fleet of cars. It doesn't matter if someone bought it, drove it for a week, and changed their mind, because it's only going to be driven about that much for most of its life anyway by hundreds of people. I don't see pay per use taking over niche auto markets anytime soon, but pretty much every niche is shrinking anyway. The number of people who want a proper sports car / real SUV to go and do things like track days and trail runs is a shrinking percentage of the shrinking population that wants to own a car at all.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:48
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There is nothing wrong with throwing the dealer model out and just having company showrooms, like Tesla. Or gently caress it, Apple.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:51
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IOwnCalculus posted:Honest question here, has the "internet startup mattress company" fad not caught on over there yet? There's a bunch of them in the US now where you just pick a size and order it online. They work around the fear of not liking it by giving an actual generous return policy, where they will send someone to pick it up and donate it if you don't like it after 90 days or so. Real refund and all that, every local store here will only give you store credit and you have to haul it back on your own dime. No, I've never heard of that. I recently purchased a matress just over a year ago and if it wasn't for some very helpful salespeople I don't think i would have ended up with the product I did, which was from a manufacturer i had never heard of before. It's literally the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on and was a very reasonable price so i cant thank that salesman enough really
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Sep 1, 2016 15:08
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 15:11
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Nice troll guys, good stuff. Even included a lemonparty.
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Sep 1, 2016 15:29
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 15:38
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 15:39
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Fuelslt1 posted:Really? Yes please go try to special order a base stripper model and see how that works out (it won't).
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Sep 1, 2016 15:44
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 15:46
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Fuelslt1 posted:I love these educated people spewing "facts". That's not my point. My point is that the ultra cheap models exist mainly so the brand can flash how inexpensive their cars are, even though 99% of people will buy a more expensive one. It makes them feel like they're springing fit a fancier model, while getting a deal.
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Sep 1, 2016 15:48
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 15:51
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Or try living in a decent state, here in Texas I can walk off with a stripper full size work truck all day every day from almost any dealer.
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Sep 1, 2016 15:59
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I have never had a problem with a dealer ordering a car of any configuration. You can usually find one on a lot or in route to a dealer. Don't expect the lot to be full of cars no one wants though. People are not willing to save $800 to not have air conditioning and ABS brakes.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:00
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Fuelslt1 posted:They exist because people buy them. Very few people buy stripper models. They primarily exist so the marketing department can hit a target price in ads. Around here, everyone advertises the price of cheap 3-door hatchbacks, but the 5-door models outsell them like 10 to 1, or even more. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 16:01
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Ikea also havee upsells and subtle ways to make you buy more poo poo than you were expecting. They also do have commission sales people annd bullshit practices. They design the store so you walk out with a bunch of poo poo you never thought of and Swedish Meatballs. The store design is classic bullshit sales tactics. And yet people don't talk about the horrible salesmen at IKEA, or walk in expecting to get ripped off. I wonder if there's something else at work here?
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Sep 1, 2016 16:01
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 16:08
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Fuelslt1 posted:Really? As I said then, they're perfectly willing to order it... for about 10% of MSRP on top in fees. At which point they start trying to upsell me on something in stock because it's not -that- much more expensive... blugu64 posted:Or try living in a decent state, here in Texas I can walk off with a stripper full size work truck all day every day from almost any dealer. Yeah, if I was after a truck, that'd be easy. Even stripper F150's and Silverados are in the $20k plus range, though.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:13
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 16:14
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