Scikar posted:

I think the burka ban poll needs a bit more context. There are some people who would ban it on the grounds that it's used to oppress women rather than out of terrorism fears or whatever, but those numbers are all conflated.

forkboy84 posted:

The referendum didn't make people more racist, but it does seem to have made fascists sit up & go "oooh, there's a lot more people out there than we realised, lets go kick some Paki heads in!" It's emboldened people who were already racist, rather than converted people into racists. Not that that's any better

Scikar posted:

I think the burka ban poll needs a bit more context. There are some people who would ban it on the grounds that it's used to oppress women rather than out of terrorism fears or whatever, but those numbers are all conflated. I also wonder which definition the poll is using, since I thought the burka was the one with a full face veil but a lot of the articles are illustrated with a picture like the one above that only covers the hair and neck.

Scikar posted:

I think the burka ban poll needs a bit more context. There are some people who would ban it on the grounds that it's used to oppress women rather than out of terrorism fears or whatever, but those numbers are all conflated. I also wonder which definition the poll is using, since I thought the burka was the one with a full face veil but a lot of the articles are illustrated with a picture like the one above that only covers the hair and neck.

Vengeance of Pandas posted:

Wetsuits? Burkinis? The fools are ignoring the true danger of insidious foreign influences lapping at our shores this very moment! Do you know where those waves have been? Not to mention they're full of immigrants eager to get their fishy teeth and sinister pincers on the flesh of decent British citizens. I say ban the oceans and protect us all from the Crypto-Neptunic Fascism they hide beneath their waves!

Vengeance of Pandas posted:

Wetsuits? Burkinis? The fools are ignoring the true danger of insidious foreign influences lapping at our shores this very moment! Do you know where those waves have been? Not to mention they're full of immigrants eager to get their fishy teeth and sinister pincers on the flesh of decent British citizens. I say ban the oceans and protect us all from the Crypto-Neptunic Fascism they hide beneath their waves!

spacetoaster posted:

Retarded Goatee posted:

Hey poster LeoMarr

What if you're opposed to the Soviet Union, its leadership etc but still think Corbyn is pretty cool

then what

Oh dear me posted:

I appreciate the analogy, but I don't think this is true at all. Mice, which also do these things, are cute. When we want to imagine disgusting alien creatures, we make them insect-like.

Cool pic though!

WeAreTheRomans posted:

Of course. No fascists would ever depict a hated minority as rodents!

Love Like Blood posted:

These albums are all great. British punk is having a bit of a renaissance as well, maybe it's 6 years of horrific tory rule. Autonomads, Atterkop, The Sporadics, Pale Angels, Bangers, Wonk Unit, Spanner, Luvdump, Oi Polloi, Slaves & Sleaford Mods have all put out great albums recently.

(also I still love American Idiot, no regrets)

Gato posted:

Sadiq Khan abandoned his affordable housing stance

Gonzo McFee posted:

Brexit emboldened fascists and I don't think there's any argument that it hasn't.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Brexit emboldened fascists and I don't think there's any argument that it hasn't.

forkboy84 posted:

The referendum didn't make people more racist, but it does seem to have made fascists sit up & go "oooh, there's a lot more people out there than we realised, lets go kick some Paki heads in!" It's emboldened people who were already racist, rather than converted people into racists. Not that that's any better.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Brexit emboldened fascists and I don't think there's any argument that it hasn't.

WeAreTheRomans posted:

No fascists would ever depict a hated minority as rodents!

Oh dear me posted:

Mice are very undesirable coresidents in your home, so of course fascists would depict minorities as rodents. Nevertheless, when people see pictures of mice that are not in their homes (or at least safely in cages), people think they are attractive little creatures. Balls of fur with big eyes, what is not to like? Insects don't have the same visual appeal for most people.

Retarded Goatee posted:

Hey poster LeoMarr

What if you're opposed to the Soviet Union, its leadership etc but still think Corbyn is pretty cool

then what

radmonger posted:

I unironically think it would be a good idea if there was a name for the political group that considers Labour either ireedamably compromised, or at least in need of destroying and recreating, but also wants nothing to do with Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and co.

Because every time I hear a member of that group speak, they give up half way through listing and discussing the things they are against before they get to saying anything about what they do actually stand for.

Tesseraction posted:

I suppose all I can say here is "watch what happens when Trump loses"

I'd certainly agree the campaign stoked it up, but no matter what the result it wouldn't have closed Pandora's box, short of 10% Leave to 90% Remain. The campaign itself emboldened them simply because of what the media determined to be 'acceptable levels' of racism.

I mean ultimately it comes down to my usual complaint of "gently caress the tabloids may all who write for them die painfully"

radmonger posted:

I unironically think it would be a good idea if there was a name for the political group that considers Labour either ireedamably compromised, or at least in need of destroying and recreating, but also wants nothing to do with Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and co.

Because every time I hear a member of that group speak, they give up half way through listing and discussing the things they are against before they get to saying anything about what they do actually stand for.

Zephro posted:

He did? Ugh.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Fascists are a superstitious cowardly lot and need to be afraid and constantly reminded that they are in the minority. Now they know that the majority is behind them.

Tesseraction posted:

And I'm saying that short of an absolutely crushing defeat it would have been the same. 52-48 win for Remain would have changed little. Heck, 60-40 would change little. Watch what happens on November 9 in the US when Captain Racebait fails to clinch the presidency.

The papers have stoked racism in this country with psychopathic fervour and this referendum merely added an extra log to a brightly burning fire. Jo Cox's killer was at a training camp to prepare for a race war prior to the referendum. The EDL declared a targeting of Muslim politicians after Sadiq Khan won the mayoralty. I'm aware of the referendum's toxic effect but this denial of Britain's racist nature is whitewashing.

Tesseraction posted:

this denial of Britain's racist nature is whitewashing.

Astroclassicist posted:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/770989832558485504

#LibDemFightback



(lol)

DesperateDan posted:

Are you talking about posters here or in general, because again, no-one has downplayed racism in this country whatsoever, from what I have seen. People talking about how the brexit vote has fed, encouraged and legitimised (in the perpetrators eyes) racism isn't downplaying it.

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Yesterday I was in a pub where two men were loudly agreeing with each other that they "weren't racist" and "young people" people were just "brainwashed into being too sensitive these days". They were also beginning to warm to Theresa May because she said "Brexit means Brexit" before moving on to talk about how she wears a lot of "low cut tops". Thanks brexit.

J_RBG posted:

The difference appears to be having gone from muttering darkly in the corner of the pub to having a bigger group and being a bit louder about the loving do-gooders ruining the country in my experience

Oberleutnant posted:

Yo whatup the way you combat oppression of women is by ensuring there is adequate social support structures and safety nets to protect a woman's autonomy and safety if she falls foul of a controlling or abusive partner or family member. Race or religion doesn't come into it and banning traditional religious dress isn't "liberatong" women, it's just as controlling and coercive as what you're trying to "liberate" them from - as those pictures of thise pigs on that french beach ably show.

This mansplain brought to you by the number "9" and the letter "R".

Gonzo McFee posted:

Is there an article on this because the last thing I saw was an article from the FT saying he's toughened his stance.

quote:

So far, so good. But buried in the BBC story on McDonnell’s announcement was a surprising line: Sadiq Khan told the BBC he did not favour rent freezes in the capital. What a difference a year makes: almost to the day, Khan told Labour members he would, if selected, push for rent freezes. In his words: “As Mayor, I’ll offer a London Living Rent, create a London-wide social letting agency, and fight for new powers to freeze rents. Together we can make housing more affordable for thousands of Londoners – helping them save for a deposit.”

Labour’s housing spokesperson in the London Assembly, echoed Khan’s commitment to housing: “Sadiq will campaign with Londoners for the power to freeze rents and for new rules to ensure that if necessary repairs are not started by landlords within a reasonable time period, tenants will be able to carry them out and deduct the cost from the rent.” The spokesperson added that a rent freeze over the last four years would have saved the average London renter £5,615 – money that could have been put towards a deposit.

It all seems strange: while he was seeking selection, Khan realised that housing problems affect different types of tenants: people who want to buy, people in social housing, people who want to be in social housing and people in private rented accommodation who are faced with rent hikes and poor standards. After proposing solutions that would help all those in personal housing crises , Khan’s policy on private rent freezes has been quietly dropped upon actual election.

Prince John posted:

The Electoral Reform Society has published its depressing report into the Brexit referendum. It makes depressing reading but they make some good recommendations - such as an independent body to monitor misleading claims.

The worst bit was this:


The only people the public actually listened to were Boris, Farage and loving Donald Trump.

forkboy84 posted:

The referendum didn't make people more racist, but it does seem to have made fascists sit up & go "oooh, there's a lot more people out there than we realised, lets go kick some Paki heads in!" It's emboldened people who were already racist, rather than converted people into racists. Not that that's any better.

brian posted:

It's also a dangerous game to say "britain as a place is full of racists who were just hiding and waiting to pounce", it implies that there aren't environmental factors into them being that way, notably all the politicians and press presenting it as a normal way to think about things. No one has ever convinced someone to change their mind by calling them a widely condemned derogatory label and presenting the whole thing as an us vs them (e.g. non racists vs racists) just makes things worse, as does the implication that they're only racist because they're stupid when you can't convince them of the core errors in their thinking.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Of course. Don't know why I expected any different. My exact problem with the Labour right there. Promise a mix of left wing ideas and concessions to the right wing to get power, abandons the left wing ideas and keep the concessions to the right once they get power.