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It may seem trite, but even starting by wearing a safety pin in solidarity and coming to the aid of someone being harassed if you see it happen should keep us from falling into despair.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:41
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Pajser posted:not as ironic as trying to stop a fascist AFTER he won the election. I don't know man I feel like you showed your hand too quickly here. Like you could have gotten at least another page out of backhanded support and then really owned us all. But you did show some effort, and these protests are about the bare minimum of effort thats warranted, so I guess you are right at home in this thread! The Kingfish posted:I think Zizek is right. It would be better for the left if protesters stopped protesting and thought about what should actually be done. At the risk of trotting out "we can do more than one thing at the same time," nearly every protest I've heard about have had calls to meet to organize next week into something more cohesive. The sheer spontaneity of these protests is going to cause a lag in organization, but the fact that there is such a sentiment about how unacceptable this poo poo is needs to be expressed.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:48
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I'm heading to a protest this afternoon. Protests are a good thing and people who talk poo poo about people protesting racism/fascism are probably bad people. A big high-five and thanks to everyone who decides to get in the streets or organize any other activities against racism and Trump.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:53
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A big flaming stink posted:I don't know man I feel like you showed your hand too quickly here. Like you could have gotten at least another page out of backhanded support and then really owned us all. But you did show some effort, and these protests are about the bare minimum of effort thats warranted, so I guess you are right at home in this thread! are you seriously this naive? what is exactly is your goal here with organizing protests? What's the result here? Impeachment? Making him resign? until then what? just throwing people into a meatgrinder to prove a point everyone already gets? there is righteous anger, of course. I agree completely with you. but if you refuse to play the game by the rules you are just going to get manipulated.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:No one knows yet if this is "all the stuff trump said is going to be things that he really tries to make happen" or "this is a regular lovely republican presidency" having a large and visible group of people is the sort of thing that will keep this towards the "it's a regular lovely republican" and away being too casual about the real from the nazi hitler "we need to ban muslims" and gay reeducation camp stuff. The problem with this is that it implies that "regular lovely Republican" poo poo like re-banning gay marriage, building a border wall, cracking down on immigration, more voter ID laws, outright transphobia, and appointing three solidly conservative Supreme Court justices are all things that are okay and that you are perfectly fine with.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:56
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blue squares posted:Here's how you fix things: You gently caress with their money. Striking and rioting aren't necessarily opposites. quote:I think Zizek is right. It would be better for the left if protesters stopped protesting and thought about what should actually be done. We'll reach a point where the options are either nazis or liquidating nazis and their enablers in the capitalist class (hint: it will be most of it if it comes to that, bottom line trumps social justice) . Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 22:57
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Pajser posted:are you seriously this naive? people shouldn't protest says the person who (supposedly)enjoys weekends, a minimum wage, civil rights, women voting, the 40 hour work week and the list goes on and on and on.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:01
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Agnosticnixie posted:Anytime even the milquetoastiest of social democrats puts a plan forward it's shut down as "impossible lol you poor summer child, please vote for more neoliberalism instead" Actually neolibs love protesting. It makes their constituency feel busy while nothing gets done and the political pressure gets transferred to local governments and police. Now is the time for planning, and strategy, for figuring out what the left's next step is. We all know that the protests aren't going to do anything, they aren't going to bring about any changes or have ANY positive effect because they aren't for anything. These protests are blatantly just about making people feel better while giving them the illusion that they also somehow making a difference. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/797034721075228672 The neolib wing is shattered! Now is our chance to seize the reins, but its not going to happen if we just go out into the streets at night and act like idiots for the cameras. The neolibs won't waste their time with that nonsense and neither should we. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:06
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Doorknob Slobber posted:people shouldn't protest says the person who (supposedly)enjoys weekends, a minimum wage, civil rights, women voting, the 40 hour work week and the list goes on and on and on. yeah and voting sucks man, that's why nobody does it any more. participating in political parties and choosing good candidates with a good record of making results is just too loving boring. its better to riot and act like a trumpian baby, because its the only thing you can do and its a good way to lose all those things you posted, not just for myself, but for everyone.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:07
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Doorknob Slobber posted:people shouldn't protest says the person who (supposedly)enjoys weekends, a minimum wage, civil rights, women voting, the 40 hour work week and the list goes on and on and on. I'm quite certain Pajser doesn't enjoy civil rights at all.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:09
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Oh wow we are going to have so much solidarity now what an excellent and successful protest. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2016 23:10
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Pajser posted:are you seriously this naive? Let me be clear, protesting is in no way remotely sufficient. It's a first step that has to be followed by many others from organizing to a cohesive plan with goals. My personal hope, though hope is a lie obviously, is that this popular sentiment can be refined into a grassroots movement that will place immense pressure on the Democrat Party to resist Trump and adopt actual leftism. Its a cliche, but the Democratic Tea Party would feel pretty good. Also I thought you were trolling so I was pretty jokey in my response, sorry.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:10
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Pajser posted:yeah and voting sucks man, that's why nobody does it any more. Actually, you're right, it probably is better to riot than protest, unfortunately most of the unhappy democrats aren't at that point yet. When they do start losing their civil liberties maybe they'll warm up to the idea. The best way you can tell a protest is working, is when people start talking about it.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:11
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A protest is basically just a way of demonstrating that a lot of people are angry. To be truly effective, it needs a somewhat coherent objective (doesn't have to be detailed or specific; BLM's "stop oppressing black people goddamnit" was plenty), and it needs an implied threat of "here's what us angry people will do if you don't give us concessions to calm us down". If the protest movement lacks either of those things, it's doomed to fail.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:13
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The Kingfish posted:Oh wow we are going to have so much solidarity now what an excellent and successful protest. When people are genuinely afraid of persecution from the right-wing shitheads that feel like they're unstoppable right now, yes, solidarity is really loving important. Both to show those vulnerable that they are not alone and that they have support, and to show would-be skinheads that there are plenty of people that have some pointed remarks about them trying to smash people's houses and harass/assault people they view as other.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:14
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Main Paineframe posted:A protest is basically just a way of demonstrating that a lot of people are angry. To be truly effective, it needs a somewhat coherent objective (doesn't have to be detailed or specific; BLM's "stop oppressing black people goddamnit" was plenty), and it needs an implied threat of "here's what us angry people will do if you don't give us concessions to calm us down". If the protest movement lacks either of those things, it's doomed to fail. BLM did have a detailed list of demands. Stop perpetuating lying bullshit from the white media. It just cost us an election and may cost us our lives. A big flaming stink posted:When people are genuinely afraid of persecution from the right-wing shitheads that feel like they're unstoppable right now, yes, solidarity is really loving important. Both to show those vulnerable that they are not alone and that they have support, and to show would-be skinheads that there are plenty of people that have some pointed remarks about them trying to smash people's houses and harass/assault people they view as other. Kingfish is an avowed white supremacist, just put them on ignore.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:15
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The Kingfish posted:Actually neolibs love protesting. It makes their constituency feel busy while nothing gets done and the political pressure gets transferred to local governments and police. Now is the time for planning, and strategy, for figuring out what the left's next step is. Neolibs only love protesting when it's not against them. Clinton went down hard at the anti-globalization protests, and we also got the incredibly tepid reaction to BLM until they became politically expedient to support, and the additional "lol gently caress occupy" before that. The problem is that a lot of these protests are going to end up like the anti-war movement.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:18
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Kingfish is an avowed white supremacist, just put them on ignore. Its me, I'm the easily trolled D&Der :corncob:
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Nov 11, 2016 23:17
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I'm quite certain Pajser doesn't enjoy civil rights at all. i work a lovely minimum wage job and i know full well if i start bullshit i get beaten up by my neighbour who is a cop and a family friend so the only thing i could accomplish is begging my parents to let move back after my flat mates throw me out for needlessly making their lives worse just to show my discontent at the current political establishment.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:18
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Pajser posted:i work a lovely minimum wage job and i know full well if i start bullshit i get beaten up by my neighbour who is a cop and a family friend so the only thing i could accomplish is begging my parents to let move back after my flat mates throw me out for needlessly making their lives worse just to show my discontent at the current political establishment. The fact that you've even heard of the phrase "minimum wage" is something people died in the gutter for you spineless coward.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:BLM did have a detailed list of demands. Stop perpetuating lying bullshit from the white media. It just cost us an election and may cost us our lives. Also a lot of the other groups involved in these protests, Socialist Alternative, The IWW, and other groups do have agendas and platforms and demands and have a history of following through with threats and also getting what they want. The best recent example is the $15 minimum wage in Seattle. The path to victory so to speak was protests --> gather signatures for ballot measure --> more protests --> city passed a plan to get to $15 an hour because they were afraid of it going to the ballot Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:19
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A big flaming stink posted:Let me be clear, protesting is in no way remotely sufficient. It's a first step that has to be followed by many others from organizing to a cohesive plan with goals. My personal hope, though hope is a lie obviously, is that this popular sentiment can be refined into a grassroots movement that will place immense pressure on the Democrat Party to resist Trump and adopt actual leftism. Its a cliche, but the Democratic Tea Party would feel pretty good. A big flaming stink posted:[solidarity is important] to show would-be skinheads that there are plenty of people that have some pointed remarks about them trying to smash people's houses and harass/assault people they view as other. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Kingfish is an avowed white supremacist, just put them on ignore. No I'm loving not you crybaby corncobber Agnosticnixie posted:Neolibs only love protesting when it's not against them. Clinton went down hard at the anti-globalization protests, and we also got the incredibly tepid reaction to BLM until they became politically expedient to support, and the additional "lol gently caress occupy" before that. Protesting the DNC is an awesome idea, people should be doing that. That might help right now. These protests against Trump are masturbatory and people are openly admitting as much.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:24
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The fact that you've even heard of the phrase "minimum wage" is something people died in the gutter for you spineless coward. and thats why every minimum wage worker should be ready to poo poo all over this hard fought right at a moments notice as soon as they see an election result they dont like. gently caress you dude
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Nov 11, 2016 23:26
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Pajser posted:and thats why every minimum wage worker should be ready to poo poo all over this hard fought right at a moments notice as soon as they see an election result they dont like. poo poo all over it by doing what was done to get it in the first place. That is making GBS threads all over it because trump might get mad at protesters and abolish the minimum wage so we should all just sit in our homes and do nothing while Trump shits all over minorities. Maybe if we're really, really quiet he will forget he promised to deport millions of Muslims who are also US citizens.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:28
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Doorknob Slobber posted:poo poo all over it by doing what was done to get it in the first place. That is making GBS threads all over it because trump might get mad at protesters and abolish the minimum wage so we should all just sit in our homes and do nothing while Trump shits all over minorities. Maybe if we're really, really quiet he will forget he promised to deport millions of Muslims who are also US citizens. as opposed to just giving him an excuse to do that even harder and with more support. it's just four years, man. you have been through so much worse.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:34
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Don't block/destroy anything until 01/20. Lmao Edit: Ok actual post. As a leftie in Europe, all this will do is galvanise the right and annoy the less radical/passionate left. And then when some news crew turns up and a dude who changed his name to Sparkles with bad white guy dreads gets interviewed it'll be ketchup at occupy all over again. ChickenWyngz fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:35
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A big flaming stink posted:At the risk of trotting out "we can do more than one thing at the same time," nearly every protest I've heard about have had calls to meet to organize next week into something more cohesive. I'll be happy when organization is happening and unhappy when it isn't. A divisive election is now over in America, nobody needs to be told that half of us are pissed off and freaked out. This happens every 4/8 years.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:40
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Pajser posted:as opposed to just giving him an excuse to do that even harder and with more support. laugh if you think its just four years. Someone much smarter than me once said something like "if you aren't willing to stand up for your rights and the rights of others, then you probably don't deserve them" and you're a pretty shining example of that.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:41
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Doorknob Slobber posted:laugh if you think its just four years. Protesting to have a good time and to jerk off about how much solidarity we all have is not standing up for our rights. Don't be naive.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:44
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Doorknob Slobber posted:laugh if you think its just four years. guilt tripping is not a good strategy, dipshit. why the gently caress did you not do more for your candidate to win the election? were you too demoralized?
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Nov 11, 2016 23:44
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The Kingfish posted:Protesting to have a good time and to jerk off about how much solidarity we all have is not standing up for our rights. Don't be gross. Can you just gently caress off out of the thread that's about to be about coordinating for protests, if you're against them you can be but there is literally zero reason for you to poo poo up the thread for those who disagree with your stupid-rear end opinion.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:45
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Pajser posted:as opposed to just giving him an excuse to do that even harder and with more support. Nah, I'm pretty sure the election of a no-fooling fascist and a VP who's goal is to put gays into re-education camps is the worst it's been in most posters' lifetimes.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:47
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The Kingfish posted:Protesting to have a good time and to jerk off about how much solidarity we all have is not standing up for our rights. Don't be naive. I don't know about you but I don't think protesting is fun? I'm a weird awkward nerd, I'd much rather be waiting for the new Pokémon game or shitposting instead of getting tear gassed. I came out because I needed to remind myself of what was important, because I knew I couldn't afford to sit around crying, and listening to the speakers and talking with people in my community has inspired me to get involved in a way I haven't for years. This is part of my mourning, and now I organize.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:47
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Yeah guys stop protesting just accept being having all your rights stripped of you. Stay silent while they pull the trigger on the gun to your head. Who cares about raising awareness and networking and getting people interested and letting those racist animals know that your not accepting at all of what you have planned for them.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:50
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1stGear posted:Nah, I'm pretty sure the election of a no-fooling fascist and a VP who's goal is to put gays into re-education camps is the worst it's been in most posters' lifetimes. the bush years were similar if not worse. wars under falls pretences, 9/11 paranoia and overreactment. not to mention the 04 election campaign which literally used fear of gay marriage to achieve its goal and did that successfully.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:51
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apokaladle posted:I don't know about you but I don't think protesting is fun? I'm a weird awkward nerd, I'd much rather be waiting for the new Pokémon game or shitposting instead of getting tear gassed. I came out because I needed to remind myself of what was important, because I knew I couldn't afford to sit around crying, and listening to the speakers and talking with people in my community has inspired me to get involved in a way I haven't for years. This is part of my mourning, and now I organize. What you are describing is catharsis and it's why I think masturbation analogies are apt. You show up and cry and listen and feel connected and then you've protested and can go home to feel warm about your solidarity.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:53
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Al-Saqr posted:Yeah guys stop protesting just accept being having all your rights stripped of you. Stay silent while they pull the trigger on the gun to your head. Who cares about raising awareness and networking and getting people interested and letting those racist animals know that your not accepting at all of what you have planned for them. im sorry i feel that the examples of the Arab Spring and the Syrian Revolution are not desirable outcomes for me and those close to me.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:55
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1stGear posted:Nah, I'm pretty sure the election of a no-fooling fascist and a VP who's goal is to put gays into re-education camps is the worst it's been in most posters' lifetimes. Where you getting that from? The only thing I could find was this statement from almost 20 years ago: "Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior." It seems like you're full of poo poo and hyperbole.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:56
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The Kingfish posted:What you are describing is catharsis and it's why I think masturbation analogies are apt. You show up and cry and listen and feel connected and then you've protested and can go home to feel warm about your solidarity. I'm going to sign up with my local chapter of the IWW on Sunday. I'm also attending other community meetings in the upcoming weeks. It's certainly possible to stop at catharsis, and it's up to me to maintain the discipline not to do so.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:59
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