NHL N/V December: Hit the Goalie

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NHL N/V December: Hit the Goalie

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Curling sucks.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2016 02:11

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 07:08

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

hifi posted:

crosby's rookie year penguins were legitimately bad and the oilers are historic underachievers. and listing gretzky's first 70 nhl games is more disingenuous than panarin's calder. i think the only thing you can take away here is that crosby is good

I think all 3 of those guys are good myself.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2016 06:05

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AssistsPerGoal.php

Numbers of secondary assists have been very stable since 1960.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2016 08:22

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

He's the worst everyday player I've ever seen in my life, and worse than the clear majority of emergency call-up types. I don't know what anyone in the organization sees in him and it's thoroughly disturbing that he made it through the draft, through AHL, 2 separate GMs and 2 separate coaching staffs without having his role within the organization diminished despite showing 0 along the way. He's not even really a tough guy, either.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2016 20:36

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

nature6pk posted:

The NHLPA rejects the NHLs offer to go to Korea for 2018 in exchange for a 3 year extension of the CBA.

I hope you like lockouts!

What kind of a loving offer is that.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2016 00:21

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Here's my offer: you can continue to promote the game at a time where it will get more exposure than at any other time by a factor of million in exchange for no money. Take it or leave it.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2016 00:27

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

nature6pk posted:

Bettman is a rat but remember at all times, he's just a mouthpiece for the owners.

There's certainly a lot of truth to this but it's always reported that he has a considerable amount of influence on them, that he talks them into more stuff than they talk him into.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2016 00:51

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Habibi posted:

What has happened with Blashill? Not that I've really been paying attention to Detroit, but there was a lot of optimism when he was tapped to replace Babcock, and people seemed to be excited to see what he could do. Even early on in his first season I recall general happiness with what he was doing among RWAS. Is it just a case of working with a poo poo roster, or...?

I don't know anything about Blashill's work (although I'd say Detroit has one of the very worst rosters in the league), but every coach in the league is hated here.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2016 00:07

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Schlesische posted:

Not remotely true.
Every coach here rides the rollercoaster would be more accurate.

Even with like Sutter, Quenneville, Vigneault etc. I think there are way more negative posts about them here than positive. For at least half of the coaches it's entirely negative.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2016 00:14

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Ginette Reno posted:

Mark Borowiecki had 14 hits which is apparently an NHL record. He was also horrendously bad.

They were fawning over him on the TSN broadcast. In addition to his uselessness in all things carrying the puck and maintaining defensive position he can't body up any forward at all either. Look at him on the Malkin penalty, he just slips right off him like an undone scarf.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 04:25

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Jordan7hm posted:

Who? Starting goalies almost never get traded, and when they do the return is not small.

Thinking back to in-season starter trades...

Miller returned a goalie, some players, and a first.

Luongo was cheaper but his situation was kind of hosed and they still got Markstrom back.

Before that there was Roloson in 06 for a first and a third.

Markstrom sucked then and sucks now.

Anderson was had straight up for Elliott, who at that point was a spectacularly failed starter who meant more to Colorado as a means of losing games than anything else. After looking good with the Blues, Elliott returned a 2nd and conditional 3rd. The price for Bishop, who has recently been a 2 time Vezina nominee, is not seen as especially high (I think he was pegged slightly ahead of Elliott by McKenzie) and he was talked about as a trade piece in the draft. Mason was traded for Michael Leighton and a 3rd. Schneider returned a top 10 pick, but that's still a dramatic undervalue for a fantastic young goalie. Promising young goalies usually go for a 1st, which isn't a small price, but it's obviously a lot lower than what promising young forwards/defensemen return.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 20:08

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Benching a guy you just gave 22 minutes to in the last game suggests you have no idea what in the hell you're looking for.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 23:08

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

You know who's done? Jarome Iginla.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 00:22

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

hifi posted:

lmao mcdavid meltdown. after this, loving around with the oiler's day off, and bitching about the concussion protocol after bouncing his face off the ice i'm not sure why any non oiler fan would like him. he's ruining the sport

I don't care about any of that and he's the most fun player to watch since Lemieux.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 08:05

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

bewbies posted:

so wait is it cool to hate mcdavid now?' I can't keep up

You have to hate every good player who ever existed. That's the law.

ThinkTank posted:

Why does any GM talk up 4th liners? They're inherently replaceable, and whenever a team goes on about how great their 4th line is it just reeks of desperately trying to convince people your team has depth. Then, having gone on at length about how valuable these dumb players are teams are forced to pay them like a top 9 guy to make it seem like they are. This leaves you with Dorsett making $2.65M, Prust making $2.5M, Clutterbuck making $3.5M, and Bickell making $4M. Almost without fail these guys are waived and buried in the minors before their contract is done.

How hard is to say "our 4th line is contributing well" instead of resorting to bug-eyed histrionics about how they're game changers that are integral to teaching their youngsters how to play the right way? A slight measure of reservation in speech would probably save teams several million dollars per contract. It's not like GMs tend to rave endlessly about their star players or anything either, it's seemingly reserved entirely for veteran 4th line leader types. Almost like they feel the need to preemptively justify the terrible contract they're about to sign them to.

It's such a weird phenomenon that I've never understood in the slightest.

There's just this weird attitude where . It's not even that Cizikas/Clutterbuck/Martin were an especially great 4th line, it's that they played a certain way, generating lots of the valuable Hits statistic, which lead to that kind of slobbering analysis from announcers about them. You never see any criticism for players like that, regardless of their effectiveness. And you'd think the little cogs in their head would start turning because a great 4th liner should soon be on the 3rd line, a great bottom pairing defenseman should soon be on the top 4, a great backup goalie should soon become a starter...

I do think Bickell's contract was more overestimating his talent level after the playoff run than overvaluing 4th liners. I think they legitimately thought he'd be the permanent LW to Kane, and that he was going to be a ~50 point guy going forward.

ThinkTank posted:

I get that you want guys to set a good example, but GMs can't get enough of talking about it. Surely just having the guy on the roster indicates that's the work effort you want your team to emulate? Plus part of what makes those less skilled guys try so hard is that they don't have the long term stability. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single grinder type who signed a long term contract and even stayed as effective as before, let alone improved in any way.

You can reward a guy who's putting in extra effort with more ice time and perhaps bump down a star who's half assing it. You don't have to start waxing lyrically about said scrub in the process.

When they're completely exempt from criticism, does it really make for a good example? Did a coach ever call out a Domi/Neil/Clutterbuck/etc. for a poor defensive play, for going solo on offense, for taking a stupid penalty? How many stupid penalties has Neil taken over his career to be endlessly fawned over? And do they really want their actual skilled players to play like that? Do they actually want Tavares to play like Cal Clutterbuck? What lessons of his would even apply to someone trying to anchor an entire team's scoring himself?

Levitate posted:

It's good to have a good fourth line because in the NHL these days it's better to have players who can actually play and aren't just lovely punch guys in that position but yeah that also doesn't mean you should take up a significant chunk of cap on them either. It's like one of the best spots to have some low cost prospects who are never going to score a lot but otherwise drive the play effectively

They aren't pure enforcers, sure, but they're not that much ahead of the pack.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 18:54

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

https://www.nhl.com/news/olympic-hockey-not-paying-dividends-as-hoped/c-284524268

It's nice of the NHL to write an article like this for their site. Awfully considerate, in spirit of the season.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 18:58

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

The Ottawa Senators will likely make the playoffs.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 05:34

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Levitate posted:

At the expense of a more deserving metro team?

I do not weep for the Carolina Hurricanes.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 05:51

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Furnaceface posted:

Who of Carolina, NJ and NYI is more deserving?

Realistically Carolina is a better team.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 06:15

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Mind_Taker posted:

Man I am not looking forward to Karl Alzner's and John Carlson's next contracts. Alzner is rumored to get close to $6M for many years for being a one-dimensional stay at home defenseman who drags the team offensively when he is on the ice, and Carlson has been incredibly lazy and dumb for the past two seasons and he's probably going to get like $7M+ at the end of next season.

Carlson was wonderful last year.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 18:45

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

JoelJoel posted:

Who the gently caress eats pastries for breakfast?

That seems incredibly common?

# ¿ Dec 20, 2016 03:17

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

For older non-forwards you have Chara, Luongo and Lundqvist

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 06:06

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Scaramouche posted:

Are the Sedins HOF locks? I love them and think they represent a uniqueness the NHL will probably never see again bit their non-Canadian ness and lack of cups makes me think they'll be left out.

The conversation happens frequently and; yes.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 07:58

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

goldrush posted:

If they were Canadian or American twin career stars with scoring titles/MVP trophies they'd be extremely easy locks but the fact they're Swedes makes them on the fence because the HHOF selection committee are a bunch of xenophobic dinosaur morons.

The bias has been against non NHL guys, like the former Soviet league stars who didnt stick around into the 90's (and even includes North American WHA heavy guys). I don't know of any anti-Swede bias. All the major candidates got in ASAP which leaves a lot of hand wringing over Kent Nilsson, I guess. Or leaving off Zubov and Gonchar when those are borderline guys (borderline out if my opinion counts) who haven't yet waited too long. Oh Europeans who played predominantly in the NHL who do you think got screwed in Hall of Fame voting? And was it an actual European based thing?

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 08:04

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

T-Bone posted:

Keith is a lock, Karlsson is pretty much a lock. Doughty will get in. Luongo should, but the Hall is weird about goalies. In the entirety of the 90s they took what 3? Hasek/Roy/Belfour?

They lasted through generations but Brodeur was definitely a big figure in the 90's, Fuhr stuck around a fair bit and both barrasso and vanbiesbrouck would be easy inductions if they werent GRade A assholes. It's also been the case where 4 guys monopolized the Vezina at the expense of others that isnt happening. If 3 for the 90's is small then that means youll have Brodeur/Luongo/Lundqvist for the 2000's and then Price/???/??? for the 2010s.

Luongo's getting in.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 08:14

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

T-Bone posted:

There's no argument for Zubov not being in when Rob Blake is in, Zubov was a way better player by any real metric. Zubov compares favorably to Niedermayer even quite frankly.

e: Check out his prime through the dead puck era, look at the kind of minutes he was logging as the best player on a Cup contending and winning team: he was brilliant.

Zubov was certainly underappreciated during his Dallas run but him being ahead of Blake certainly wasn't what people thought at the time, since Blake had a much better Norris voting record than Zubov and that's really what the Hall is going to look at.

Most people would still consider Modano ahead of him in the Stars pecking order, arguably Belfour as well, and Hatcher was seen as a 1A with him at the time.

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Henrik Sedin: 229-763-992 (0.83 PPG, 1199 GP)

Daniel Sedin: 365-599-964 (0.82 PPG, 1176 GP)

Voltron Sedin: 594-1362-1956 (0.82 PPG, 2375 GP)

Noted bad pick Dino Ciccarelli: 602-598-1200 (0.97 PPG, 1232 GP)

Are the Sedin's better than Dino? I dunno

Comparing guys who peaked in the 80's and early 90's numbers vs. kings of the 2-1 scoreline is always going to lead to this broken assessment. Both Sedins have been good for roughly as long as Dino was and peaked as best player in the league types instead of a guy you'd be a little embarrassed to call the best player on your own team. They are both individually are way better picks. God help you if you compare goalie save percentages in each era, we'd have Kari Lehtonen in the Hall. Dino is Rick Nash.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 19:05

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Veskit posted:

You can talk over stats all you want but the Sedins were identical twins who played on the same team and were elite so I don't see how they aren't shoe ins.

Did they win a medal with sweden i can't remember?

They won gold in 2006.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 19:13

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Derian Hatcher must be the most influential player in NHL history because still every 6'5" caveman looking fucker gets drafted 1st round and has a 10 year career in hopes of emulating him.

He was really good though.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 19:57

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

They're going to put in about 8 more guys than they should have, as they do every generation.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 21:24

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Bergeron/Toews/Kopitar are all tracking to be well in. Id argue that even if they fall apart before hitting offensive milestones theyll all be in.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 21:26

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

A Typical Goon posted:

Weber's gonna make the Hall of Fame cause the stupid media is going to give him a Norris for getting traded

Hes in no matter what. Already a couple votes away from the Norris twice, got best defenseman in the world talk for quite a few years, big showings on Team Canada, had franchise player rep in Nashville...

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 21:33

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Tim Thomas is up and that's a real interesting debate

Not really.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 22:39

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Eric Staal kicks rear end again.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2016 18:30

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

St. Dogbert posted:

Steve Downie looks to have gotten a little drunk and honest on Twitter this afternoon. Guess which NHL official was supposedly the one who made that "Are your kids proud of you?" comment about John Scott? (Hint: Duh.)

Didn't even realize he was out of the league. The free market works.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2016 23:43

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Stretch Marx posted:

What? Nylander has been by far one of the best forwards we have. He pulls up any line that he's been put on. He's also 4th in Rookie points right now behind Laine, Matthews, and Marner. Nylander is a better center than Tyler Bozak and I can't wait for Nylander to replace him.

It's also pretty pointless to care that much about a rookie playmaking center's defense, nor is Nylander's especially notable.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2016 21:06

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

a false posted:

players born after 9/11 will be in the nhl in 4 years

In the World Juniors they have Rasmus Dahlin who was born in the 2000's and is the current front runner for #1 overall next year.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 20:46

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

Orrin is an old name but one that actually existed. See Orrin Hatch.

Rin is Rin Beny, and I think it's a Sudanese name.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2016 03:54

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 07:08

Spring Break My Heart: Feb 15, 2012

yellowcar posted:

How is Condon working out for you Sens people?

He's been alright! I thought that would sink our season but he's held the fort, and in retrospect paying a tiny price for him was the correct choice over Hammond. His play has dipped a bit the past few games tho.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2016 00:57

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