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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Harry Potter and the Dementor Invasion
«‹›6 »
 
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Max posted:

First

Best

* # ¿ Apr 14, 2020 01:49
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# ¿ May 21, 2024 15:51
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Token Female posted:

9. Join the discord for this thread. Roles will be given here and such. :frogsiren: Join here :frogsiren:
The discord link says it is expired

* # ¿ Apr 14, 2020 01:52
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Quandary posted:

It's been like a decade, how the hell is this still all the exact same people playing mafia?

I haven't played in years. I've been saving myself for this moment

* # ¿ Apr 14, 2020 18:34
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 This is gonna be really good or really bad

probably bad

* # ¿ Apr 14, 2020 23:01
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Tom Tucker posted:

Oh man there are so many people I remember from 13 years ago but I'm trying to put a memory to the name.

I'll help.

You're all loving morons, I am right listen to me! :argh:

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 02:56
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

CapnAndy posted:

Wait IRC and AIM aren't things any more?

Should I just check myself into the retirement home, or...?

Discord is IRC with emojis, it's pretty good

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 04:18
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 It's starting to come back to me...
##vote merk

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 17:21
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

kingcobweb posted:

I made that GBS game THIRTEEN YEARS AGO and people from then are still around. Good lord

I think I'm the only Mafia 1 person "still around", definitely the only Mafia 1 MVP still around :smugdog:

"still around" meaning "plays a game every four years"

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 18:16
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Dexanth posted:

dont we have that already

dont you to wizard jail forever for using it

i guess its less a head cutting spell though so maybe just cutting someone's head off is okay

actually like if I magically levitate a knife and plunge it into someone's sternum is that less bad than using the killing curse like

whats the difference

This sounds like death eater talk. Consider this a strong :siren:FINGER OF SUSPICION:siren: on Dexanth.

I am happy with my merk vote for now though, he must pay for the crimes of the past.

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 18:32
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Scientastic posted:

Punishing people for crimes is extremely dementor

##Vote Jose

Trap sprung. Only a death eater would vote for me! ##vote Scientastic

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 18:37
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Dexanth posted:

consider this my big FINGER OF TACOS on you

it means nothing

I respect this, consider my :siren:FINGER OF SUSPICION:siren: lifted

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 18:42
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 ##vote Token Female no mods no masters

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 18:55
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal Incandenza posted:

Sorry, this was determined to be #1 scumtell while you were away. ##vote Jose

I know, only town would commit to making the #1 scumtell though, so why are you voting for town?

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 19:15
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Epsilon Plus posted:

false IMO - if I got accused of "white knighting", among other things on Day 1, my immediate response would be to post something like "hmmm yes a compelling case but hast thou considered *farts wetly*"

Why are you white knighting for Liger?!? Hmm????

I agree with this post though

* # ¿ Apr 15, 2020 22:40
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

I still maintain (and have been lynched for this idea) that the D1 lynch, unless someone does something idiotic or there is a clear attempt at a railroad by scum that doesn’t know what it’s doing, is a crapshoot.

And yes I am always sad that the shitpost phase ends, especially when there wasn’t nearly enough Potter puns or wordplay.

(Also yeah yeah I know I’ve been 0 productive it’s D1)

The shitpost phase only ends if you let it

* # ¿ Apr 16, 2020 15:48
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 I generally agree with everyone who says D1 sucks always and if you execute scum you usually got lucky.

Out of everything posted so far Scientastic's posts bug me the most, the out of the gate liger case felt uninspiring and forced but I lean "bad townie d1 case" more than "bad scum d1 case"

bowmore and yuming and ASAPRockySituation should post more

* # ¿ Apr 16, 2020 15:58
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

yuming posted:

Jose

Which leads me to a post that gave me bad ~vibes~

Full of light and easy opinions. In context, this post reminds me of my own scum play in the recent Cookfia game.

There are plenty of topics to get actual reads on. JV is sitting on his vote and not trying to figure things out.

This is a common complaint with me on day 1.

I'm not good at identifying scum on day 1 (and I argue nobody is, sometimes people are just lucky) and I think that executing scum on d1 is usually counterproductive because it doesn't give them enough time to tie themselves to their scum buddies.

None of the existing arguments are compelling to me, it all just reads like the usual d1 bickering that happens. I've even reread most of the post histories in the game looking for something because I want to get the game moving, but there just isn't anything there yet.

* # ¿ Apr 16, 2020 19:05
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

kingcobweb posted:

Strong disagree, killing scum is... good. Tying scum to one another only happens with true rookie players imo

At this point we are all pretty much rookies again

* # ¿ Apr 16, 2020 19:10
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 I would like everyone to post a description of how you play as scum and how you play as town to make it easier for everyone to assess

I'll start
Town: Like this
Scum: Not like this

* # ¿ Apr 16, 2020 20:17
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Khris Kruel posted:

lol clearly I stabbed myself into a hornet nest of scum.

There's absolutely no way I get this much traction on day 1 for posting a scum read without Jen X being scum.

Not changing my vote.

Khris Kruel posted:

This was clearly a rally call of scum to take pressure off Jen X

Khris Kruel posted:

yes, exactly. I hit scum purchase, and the rats came out to defend.

Khris Kruel posted:

I'm caught up. Tom Tucker and kingcobweb saw the same post I voted xo as scummy, and I'm confident he jumped on me to defend Jen X

I think xo and Jen X are both scum.

This Jen X obsession is weird, nobody is bandwagoning you to save Jen X from your one vote.

Are you actually the role you say is hunting you and trying to kill Jen?

* # ¿ Apr 17, 2020 04:29
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 I'm fine with the KK launch, you can pretend I voted for him, I'm just holding off in case anyone else wants to say anything before hammer.

* # ¿ Apr 17, 2020 04:40
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 Oh hey the thread is open, gonna try to catch up now

* # ¿ Apr 18, 2020 22:56
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 I've got to run for the rest of the night, but I wanted to post my thoughts so far. I've finished rereading the histories for some key players of day 1, I haven't skimmed day 2 but not read in detail yet.

Now that we've got a few flips, I wanted to go back and see if anyone had a motive for the night kills.

Jen didn't push too hard for anyone (her strongest suspicion was Kashuno), I don't think her death was motivated by her cases

Scientastic on the other hand pushed hard on xopods (OFFICER LIGER and Epsilon Plus were his other suspicions, I have a town read on Epsilon and haven't reviewed OFFICER LIGER in depth yet, the xopods stuff was just too compelling)

Scientastic posted:

Happy to do this too. That xopods post is really really terrible. I think the linking himself to merk is bad, it really reads like "I am not shirking my respsonsibilities, but make sure you realise that I am sharing the responsibility with one or two other players"

Scientastic posted:

##Vote Xopods

Every post of yours is just ringing out as "THIS GUY IS SCUM THIS GUY IS SCUM"

Scientastic posted:

Doesn't anyone else see how xopods is trying to have his cake and eat it here? He keeps on talking about how accountable hes being and how by making a big deal out of pushing this case, he's nobly putting himself in the firing line, but actually he keeps shifting the focus (and accountability) onto someone else.

With the hindsight of knowing KK was scum and Scientastic is dead I think he was right about xopods and I think he was likely killed to take the heat off of xopods.

xopods starts out with a couple of "me toos". He posts quite a bit without providing content, arguing procedure rather than content

His "gotcha" moment with Scientastic just feels off

xopods posted:

Good thing you don't think that inconsistency is scummy, cause this is inconsistent as hell.

:chord:

xopods posted:

Okay, but the point you're responding to in the first quote relates to scum hunting and whether self-consciousness is a scum tell. You seem to be saying that it's not, because Town also have a motivation not to seem scummy.

Now you're arguing that Townies are in fact less self-conscious than Scum.

Which is it? Can we or can we not use a player's degree of apparent self-consciousness to make inferences about their alignment?

He's trying very hard to present arguments as logical and others as inconsistent. He hits Andy for this too, but silently drops any further mention

xopods posted:

I think Town and Scum can both be inconsistent but they're inconsistent in different ways. It's not the mere inconsistency that bothers me here, it's that it reveals a certain insincerity and self-consciousness IMO.

That is, he clearly didn't think Jen was particularly scummy when he started writing that post. If he was Town, "nothing has really blew my skirt up" indicates someone who hasn't been pinged very hard by anything.

So he must have written that first bit and then gone back to find a read to include.

That's the bit that's scummy to me. It suggests that he was concerned with how the first bit would look on its own without being accompanied by evidence of scum hunting, which is a Scum mind sort of worry.

xopods posted:

Also, for anyone on the fence about KK or not really seeing it, there's a strong case to be made for a D1 lunch that can clearly be attributed to one or a small number of players.

Often you end up with votes scattered around close to deadline and Townies shuffle around semi-randomly trying to figure out who there's enough support to lunch. That makes it very easy for Scum to get a Town lunch without taking direct responsibility for it.

I'm not going to say I'm 100% sure KK's Scum cause it's impossible to be 100% sure. But you've got me and merk here willing to take responsibility for this, plus probably DBD though I don't want to speak for him. Anyway, IMO any lunch where you can say clearly "here are the people who made that happen" is a good one from the perspective of information later in the game.

Also, KK will probably turn out to be Scum, so that's also a very good reason to lunch him.
This reads to me like someone who knows KK is gonna flip town and is trying very hard to set it up that he doesn't know KK is gonna flip town.

He had the motive to kill Scientastic, he pushed really hard on KK while always bringing up merk and DBD to spread out the "blame", to a degree that seems over the top. I think xopods is scum you guys

##vote xopods

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 01:58
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Tom Tucker posted:

There's a 10% chance this works. Can someone tell me how to add a gif to a post?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lNUh0uV.gif[/gif]

Jose did you read my massive post? I know we've played a bunch of games together in the past but honestly I can't remember your style but something in my long-term memory says to me you're not a "huge post" reader.

I haven't yet, I'm behind on day 2.

I see it now, there is a good chance I would have glossed over it given the size but I'll read it after I'm done raiding

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 02:53
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Tom Tucker posted:

There's a 10% chance this works. Can someone tell me how to add a gif to a post?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lNUh0uV.gif[/gif]

Jose did you read my massive post? I know we've played a bunch of games together in the past but honestly I can't remember your style but something in my long-term memory says to me you're not a "huge post" reader.

OK, not gonna lie, I scrolled up to read your post and I was nodding along thinking "Tom Tucker gets it" then I realized I was reading my own post.

Then I read your post, and I was still nodding along. I think we're on the same page :hf:

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 04:13
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal Incandenza posted:

Yep, agree.

I think E+ and Liger are good paths to pursue today

Why? You haven't posted about either of them except for a joke(?) vote on Liger

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 05:03
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Mikujin posted:

This far into the witch-hunt this post just strikes me as weird. I get what Jose it getting at, but it just seems... kinda irrelevant to any actual discussion. Couple that with the fact his only previous posts amount to "no one is good at D1, please excuse me for not trying everyone knows I don't try on D1" and It leaves a sour taste.

@Jose: leading up to end of day, you indicated you were totally satisfied with KK getting the axe. In light of KK flipping town, who do you think is most likely to be scum on the bandwagon?

The timing of the post was because I was behind and catching up to the bandwagon, I was trying to make rational sense of KK's weird behavior, his posting did not make sense to me if he was town. It turns out he was just a bad irrational townie though.

I don't think it is accurate to say I don't try on D1, I don't make many D1 cases, and I don't think most D1 cases are very good, but I'm still reading the game and getting a feel for the interactions between the various players. Sure, it isn't super helpful in terms of finding scum day 1 but I think it pays off eventually.

Anyway, I said it earlier, but I think xopods is the most likely to be scum on the bandwagon. I'm still in the process of rereading everyone, but he seems like the most likely candidate.

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 05:22
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Kloaked00 posted:

The other person that ended up catching my attention is Jose. I was looking at the votes on other people to look for #2 above, and in looking at Jose's posting history, it doesn't look very good. There's the usual vote phase voting stuff, then once we started real discussion, there's still not much content at all. He had a joke vote on merk in the joke phase, then his second vote on Scientastic is here on April 15 at 1:37pm

That's it. That's all his votes for the day. He does say that he's willing to vote for KK here

Which admittedly is pretty much the same reason I said I would vote KK and didn't, so I don't hold that against him necessarily, but with him not having put forth really any effort, the two in combination make it feel scummy. He also likes to lament a lot how D1 is useless;

I had an unusually hard time with D1, and I'm usually not very good at D1 content. I'm working on doing better on D2, I've got a notes doc and everything which is something I haven't done in a decade or more.

quote:

And gives an excuse for why even though he's started playing mafia back when me, Spoonsy, TT and CapnAndy did, why he's bad now:
This wasn't an excuse for why I'm bad now, it was an excuse for why everyone else might be bad now. It was also a joke :shrug:

quote:

You can look through his post history yourselves, but you won't find really any content there. Now, I do agree that the veterans might be rusty and might not be used to any new metas, but we still know how to play mafia. And that includes Jose. He knows better than how he's playing right now and his lack of contribution for D1 though he knows better comes off as really scummy to me.

I still like my vote on E+, but I am also very willing to put down a vote on Jose

I wish I had more content to post D1 too, but I think that my little bit of D1 content was more than some other people in the game.

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:04
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal Incandenza posted:

I do think his xopods case earlier felt forced though as I said

Why do you think it felt forced?

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:11
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Spoonsy posted:

No, I missed that while looking at the vote count mechanism stuff.

Where did they go?

Spoonsy posted:

They made a choice to go missing?

PQ - does this jive with whatever info you have on your end?

This fishing feels ill advised at best and scummy at worst

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:25
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Hal Incandenza posted:

A lot of it was reiterating things that have been said already and so it feels like you felt you had to have some content to appear like you were hunting before you could vote but you could have basically said "I agree with most of the points on xopods" and amounted to the same thing
I honestly hadn't read the other posts on xopods before I posted mine (at least not the D2 posts), I knew he was under some suspicion but I wanted a clean read. It was the result of a couple hours of digging and taking notes. There's no reason to believe me about that, but it's true!

quote:

Also I'm just biased against cases that seem to be founded in "well the person who was the NK said they found so and so suspicious" because I just don't think scum use that as motivation especially early in a huge game like this and it's a crutch scum use as a jumping off point.
I've done this as scum early because people dismiss it for these reasons. If "they found so and so suspicious" was the only piece of evidence I would agree with you, otherwise Kashuno (suspected by Jen), OFFICER LIGER, and Epsilon (suspected by Scientastic) would be equally likely. It's the suspicious NK combined with what I think is inauthentic posting leading up to the KK launch that convinces me xopods is scum.

Hal Incandenza posted:

You sure are fishing a lot around this, what are you hoping to discover here.

I think if you are patient a lot of this will be answered naturally

Dang it don't post stuff right before me

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:32
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 It doesn't convince me he's not scum but this

xopods posted:

I just want to highlight these two posts for everyone's future reference.

I know some people are going to hate that I'm saying this... but when you're Scum and there's a very vocal and polarizing Townie, the natural play is to leave them alive, try to encourage their worse reads and discourage their good ones, and buddy up to the people who want to lunch that person.

Then, later in the game, you kill off that person's non-Scum supporters, let the angry mob take them, and probably pretend to defend that person as they're getting lunched so you can play the Voice of Reason after the mob has lost confidence and degenerated into in-fighting.
is true.

quote:

... Hal is correct that I'm just playing like I always do...
You've said this a few times, what is a recent game you've played where you've been scum and where you've been town?

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:45
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Kloaked00 posted:

I also think PQ is town simply based in the fact that I don’t feel scum would want to relay any extra information to the town if they can help it, even if it’s information that some town may already likely have. And the way he said it doesn’t read as a scum gambit, it reads honest to me

On the other hand if I was scum and I had information that I thought might make me look vaguely townie I'd want to share it to look like a helpful townie. Assuming the information is accurate it will become public knowledge on D3 so if you've got that information and you're scum you may as well use it while you can

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 15:55
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 For the people who think Epsilon is scum, what is your read of this post?

Epsilon Plus posted:

I want you out of the game just for lovely posts like these tbh

do you know this because you were given a fakeclaim as scum, or

It feels authentic to me. I don't think scum would say this about fakeclaims in this way.

It's not a free pass where I think Epsilon is confirmed town or anything, but it is more compelling to me than the cases against him at this point.

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 16:04
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Kloaked00 posted:

Eh, with this being a Token HP game, it’s strong precedent and clearly stated here that scum all have fake claims, so I don’t think that really has any part in helping my read

Right, but scum would know they have fake claims so I don't think they would make that comment. Only a townie who wasn't paying attention wouldn't know that scum have fake claims.

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 16:15
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

xopods posted:

Of the games I've played since I got back, only two have finished and can be discussed.

I was Town in both, so you'd have to go back many years to find a game in which I was Scum.

So, I don't think it's possible to have a Town meta-read on me here, because you'd need a Scumpods counterexample, and in any case, most of the things people are pointing to are just part of my mafia persona, not alignment tells either way. Most of the people who know me well, especially those that played in one or both of those finished games (FF8 and Cookfia) have said that I'm always like this, and they're correct.

I just read a couple pages of your posts in both Cookfia and FF8, I honestly don't see the similarities between your posting here and your posting there. Your weird posts about KK and tying yourself to DBD and merk just feel very tonally different than anything I see in those two games (at least the early parts I read). Is there an analog case in one of those games that you think fits this?

You keep saying that this is your meta, show me the receipts.

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 16:30
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Pussy Quipped posted:

Honestly it’s pretty wifom but I feel like he did it on purpose to get town points for not understanding the fake claim situation

CapnAndy posted:

C’mon, dude, this is WIFOM as hell. It’s the simplest thing in the world to imagine scum with a fakeclaim deciding that, since they know they have a fakeclaim, pretending to not know that would seem townie, and you can take that logic as many steps as you want.

Ya'll should read the second half of my post instead of tripping over yourselves to yell WIFOM

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 21:18
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

CapnAndy posted:

I read it. Read mine again: it is trivially easy to imagine a scum, who knows they have a fakeclaim, thinking to themselves "well since i know I have a fakeclaim, that's scum knowledge, so if I pretend to not know about them I sound townie". All it requires is missing the same post in the rules that your case for it being a townie play is predicated on missing anyway. It's extremely WIFOM.

I don't think the two scenarios of "townie didn't read OP and thinks they caught a scum slip" and "scum pretends to be a townie who didn't read the OP and acts like they've caught a fake scum slip in order to prove they are townie" are equally likely. I think Epsilon's post comes across as authentic, and that they are more likely to be town than scum.

I could certainly be wrong, but for now Epsilon is in my townie pile

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 21:52
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

 I think WIFOM is overused and usually lazy. If actions are equally likely regardless of alignment, then sure, it's WIFOM. If an action is more likely for one alignment than the other, but is technically possible for both, then dismissing it and saying "WIFOM" is lazy and missing the point.

Like, if Westley had put the poison in one of the cups while Vizzini was watching the entire time Vizzini wouldn't have had a hard time picking the right cup, but since it was a 50/50 thing he went around in circles.

I lean towards closer to 75/25 for the Epsilon Gambit™ so I don't think it is valid to just dismiss it as WIFOM.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 22:01
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# ¿ May 21, 2024 15:51
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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

kingcobweb posted:

Can you elaborate on how scum xopods would play this differently?

My read on xopods at this point is “scum who thinks as themselves as a Good Player [no offense xo] who are outraged that they are getting voted for The Wrong Reasons.”

In response to the earlier case on me, I admit I’ve tunneled on xo, but I really think he’s the best guillotine for the day. My other read right now is, as a big fan of Jose’s since his very first games, this seems exactly how townie Jose plays, down to the mostly not participating day one”. Strongest town read, would trust him with my life

I hope you aren't scum taking advantage of my tendency to not suspect people who agree with me because it is working :swoon:

* # ¿ Apr 19, 2020 22:36
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Harry Potter and the Dementor Invasion
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