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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Did a prerelease sealed, first time doing sealed anything and really enjoyed it. Didn't much care for Dominaria, just too much messy colour chasing and I'm too new at Magic to really navigate it well but these feel a lot clearer. Gix and something that brings gix back when he dies were my best cards and combo, if I got those or if Gix just stuck I tended to win but my opponent's all seemed to have some pretty great stuff themselves. Most of my games felt really close and felt like you could clearly trace a decision or reaction that won/lost the game. I went black/green and the baloth was fantastic for me and some centaur as well, but I had an alternate black/blue deck I could've made, kinda wish you could replay a draft again but I guess that's defeating the whole point.

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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Reynold posted:

yup

Fortunately, BRO is one of those sets I've looked through and found nothing I want to make a new commander deck out of, which is a relief for my wallet, I tell you whut

Hah, the deck I just built had a bunch of cards included in the precons. Would've waited if I had known ahead of time. I just dig the retro borders in general. The precon deck playstyles dont particularly interest me from the outside but sometimes things are more fun to play than try to imagine playing em. Are they at least balanced well against eachothher, if I get both will probably jam a few games and see if someone wants to pilot the other.

The other things in bro Im excited about are upgrades for this land's wrath precon I picked up a while back and havent opened yet, already had some cool upgrades from Zendikar packs, and some of the dryad and titania stuff in Bro seems like it'd be really good in either an Omnath or the Mul Daya whatever guy, whichever I decide to go with eventually. Firs t things first: Play and test my new Most Dangerous Gamer deck. Would've already done so a week or two ago but I was missing some cards and didn't notice the seller was out of stock on some random filler I got for shipping, whoops!

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

FireMrshlBill posted:

No idea about Commander or how decks are built around them, and not sure if the multiplayer format is for me or if it is actually a good way to have people guide you through the game. I guess that is why jumpstart appeals to me since I get to start loading up on newer cards and maybe the excitement of opening packs will keep my kid engaged as I teach them. Though I have no idea if the card variety is too narrow in a box of Jumpstart. I know people complained about the theme variety in DMU and BRO boxes, but maybe <$50 a box is worth it? I like the idea of acquiring some bulk while I play on Arena and figure things out.

On Arena I have mostly been playing the bot and have played a few standard play games against real people. Just using the decks they give you and one of the decks that came from the code of the starter card set I bought.

Or maybe I am just overthinking everything, haha.

I'm a new player and I still feel Commander is a good way in to the game, although I have a good group of friends who play it and the local bar meet-up group is likewise very friendly. Magic is just more fun in person, and the social format is pretty good for learning. Get to see lots of cards and playstyles and moves you might not see or think of yourself. The multiplayer factor is a bit odd, I always feel guilty attacking anyone until they've hurt me first, but then again I often apologize in drafts when its 1v1 too, especially if I've just done something very bad for them. Most commander I've played against were happy to welcome someone newer to the fold and in general I think folks happy to have opponents and new decks to play against.

Re: Acquiring bulk, I really felt that when I first played. Bought a precon to play commander and singles to upgrade it, which made sense, but then idk I just wanted to have a buncha cards and bought some boxes and bundles and random boosters n poo poo. At first it was a ton of fun, ya know cool little artworks and rules to read, but quickly started to realize the foundational problem. Most of the cards I got were not that cool or good and I'd likely never put them into a deck I otherwise wanted to build. Some cards were great and inspired deck ideas I've built or still want to! But mostly I bought myself a lot of trash that isn't worth selling, feels bad to throw away, and are now a logistical storage and management problem. Hah early on I almost bought some random boxes of bulk from LGS but the guy warned me off of it and I'm really glad he did. The more cards you have, the harder it is to find and separate the ones you do want. I've already bought a single I know I owned because I just straight up didn't feel like going through this mess of various cards just to find the one little cheapo card.

I'm maybe halfway through adding my current cards on delver lens, and once I do hopefully adding new cards after drafts n such will be smooth, but right now it's a Chore that I keep putting off. That said, it wasn't a secret to "buy singles" and "dont blow money on random packs just because" before I bought my first anything, but for me Magic cards were something I couldn't dream of buying a box of when I was a kid and first failed to play it, so probably had to get that out of my system before I could be like "yeah okay obviously I don't/shouldn't want more random poo poo I don't even want."

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
I wish some bootlegger would just print a full anniversary style collection of alpha/beta cards, either with counterfeit back or some alternate. Know I could technically do it myself but I'd rather drop some cash on some secondary proxy maker and get it all together from them. All Magic cards are real Magic cards in a sleeve, printer origin and cardbacks are a fake idea.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

LGD posted:

actual counterfeiters likely wouldn't find it worth the bother b/c their business is selling cardboard for $1-3/card and I don't think there'd be enough takers for $300 sets to be worth the effort to create the Purelaces of the world

but there are businesses out there that will happily Make Playing Cards for you at professional quality (with alternate backs + clearly marked as proxies) for only slightly more effort than clicking "buy" on a website - I'd say it'd cost you about $83.55-97.95+shipping depending on the quality of the cardstock you select (or ~twice that if you want to bling them out in foil

Yeah, I'm going to do this with a custom commander deck I'm making with cards supporting a bear/insect tribal commander.

I'm also making my own probably 60-100 card deck of a goofy art project/comic/game and it's actually not that expensive to get cards printed on demand in medium quantities with decent cardstock, get the cost per deck down surprisingly low at least compared to what I assumed.

fadam posted:

What's the vibe about BRO draft? I saw some negativity about bombs on Twitter but my first attempt (6-3 with UB Fliers no synergy lol) was basically just core set combat. Every artifact I opened was complete rear end.

Seems pretty split to me, seen lots of folks mad about the bombs being common, but I mean, more chances to get one for yourself. I enjoyed pre-released sealed a bunch and have done a handful on Arena of draft and I've made much better decks than I ever could in Dominaria. Hell, more than once I've managed to make good monocolor decks since a lot of the artifacts are quite playable. Really looking forward to draft this Friday, I feel like it's a lot clearer what kind of deck you're making as you draft. Every week at dominaria I'd end up with some bizarre thing I slapped together at the end while now I feel like I'm deckbuilding as I go more deliberately. and yeah, tons of lovely artifacts you only grab when you have to.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
LGS I go to doesn't let us use store credit on boxes or draft entries. Draft wins are usually a choice of any in-stock standard legal packs or 4$/win store credit. I usually just grab packs I haven't opened any or many of before.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Captain Invictus posted:

hell yeah, the only "jackpot" lottery card I've ever opened before was opening a single box of amonkhet and getting a force of will invocation, and that was a while ago. just pulled this guy:


seems they're insanely rare, only one up on tcgplayer for a cool grand, but I'm sure the market is entirely unsure at the moment due to the sheer lack of quantity available.

lol it looks like he's in the club trying to do some weird aggressive thrusting move but he's incredibly scared by it

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
I know the playtest mystery booster convention cards aren't "legally" constructed playable, but I can't be the only one who sees things like acorn symbol, silver borders, "not for constructed play" labels as an invitation? The commander playgroups I play with are fine with acorn cards, it's more like hyper cEDH or whatever folks don't run except in specific pod for that sorta thing. Some of the playtest cards are extremely broken so wouldn't want to mess with those, but others seem just like janky cards of a normal power level. If nothing else all my kitchen table decks so far are already unfinity-based and a playtest kitchen table deck could also be fun.

Any of y'all ever make a deck or play with/against these cards outside of a draft? I haven't really browsed through them all yet, just saw the secret lair convention bundle thing and looked through a little handful of em

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

I brought my Drake posted:

My friends and I are making un-EDH decks. Mine is probably going to be a dice rolling durdler with gate lands. There's also a bug circus deck with Jermane and a goblin tribal deck with Space Family Goblinson in the group.

This looks pretty fun, almost made a dice-roller over Dangerous Gamer. Hopefully get to play the Gamer this weekend.

uggy posted:

I heavily considered a bunch of the mystery convention cards for a vintage cube but the playgroup decided against it as it changes the basics of gameplay too much.

Impatient iguana would be so good but hard to know just how strong it is and changing start order feels a little outside of what folks want with cube

This is totally a card I'd use. Random chance to change who goes first feels kinda like random chance to decide who goes first in the first place. I've been lucky though and don't know any players who get really worked up anything like that.

sit on my Facebook posted:

Even before I was an LGS owner, I've never understood restricting the use of store credit. I feel like I'm not missing any math on how it's worse for me if somebody wants to use their credit on any given product versus any other one, just seems stingy tbh

I guess I get it, it just is obviously not good for my as a customer. The guy who told me the credit rule made it sound like it was something the owner decided at some point so that nobody could go "infinite." There are 2 people at my LGS who only draft sometimes and most others seem unhappy when they do, when they don't play they'll walk around and comment on your deck or draft or whatever so I think if nothing else, the rule keeps those two people from playing every week since I think they're the local draft experts who might just win consistently enough to not pay back the entry fee if it were allowed. Not allowing us to buy booster boxes I guess also stops someone from sitting down, opening packs until they get enough to trade-in for another, but I doubt that can ever really be a consistent problem given the trade-in rate for cards. Reckon sealed product is mostly worthless garbage with value hinging on the gambling aspect and they just don't wanna hold onto random singles to hand out gambling packs when gamblers will definitely pay cash to do it anyway.

That said there are a couple other LGS in town, including one that I think might have a higher WOTC star rating or whatever, but it's too far across town, couldn't walk there in time, no sidewalk for a lot of it.

LGD posted:

noteworthy news, especially on the heels of Wizard's move into "official proxies"

https://twitter.com/ImKyle4815/status/1593658806201856001?s=20&t=LEJ3x2NN8-GvD6ku_pueyQ

This really bums me out, I kept putting a bunch of custom magic card ideas on hold since I was working on other stuff and just assumed the mtg one would be around in a month or two when I get to them proper. Some quick exploration makes it seem like there's really nothing else remotely comparable. Trying to set these up myself in photoshop will be rough. Ugh, I even had the rules text mostly head-written couldve at least made protypes when i had the chance. I was also trying to make each card seem like it was from different sets over time and if setting up one modern card is a pain in photoshop/illo then all the others will be a nightmare to typeset too. Such a weird target considering counterfeits just need an image of the card, not a custom card maker.

Picking up a set of basically the entire ideal manabase for a rainbow commander deck I'm putting together. My options were either have a bad/mediocre manabase with half my cards being focused around mana fetching and fixing, or have a good manabase I could never afford if printed by Wizards. There are countless other printers though and quite affordable. I wonder if card conjurer was just something the lawyers have been wanting to snipe off for a while or if this is the start of some heavier handed approach towards all the other places to get Real Magic Cards. I haven't been playing long enough to know but it kind of seems like it's fairly recent people are okay with proxies, like a spell was broken that kept people being very sanctimonious about only using cards printed by Wizards. AFAIK the only setting where wizards-only cards matter are official tournaments and things that they do online now anyway, and kinda seems like even in-person it's incredibly unlikely anyone will ever be really scrutinizing your cards. Surely even at its height, those kinds of tournaments were the absolute minority of players ever participating.

Charity Porno posted:

When Pokémon was white hot in like 99, we'd have events every weekend where adults would utterly decimate little kids to fund their Warhammer armies. We moved to having 2 separate age bracket tournaments but the adults actually called WotC to tattle about it. Our ultimate solution was to give all prize support for Pokémon in Pokémon Boosters. This was what the rare kid winners wanted anyhow and it pissed the adult winners off because they didn't want them.

They "protested" for a few weeks by winning the tournaments and burning the won Boosters in the parking lot but then they got bored and stopped ruining the children's card game

this is really sad, even before the burning part. pokemon products have been burnt for a lot of goofy reasons over the years.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Why would he need to be cut from the tournament over that... just take one of those blank MDFC whatever proxy cards and write the sold-damaged secret lair card text on it? This is a fake problem.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Official tournaments should all use house-provided proxies of all cards printed on the exact same stock and treatment and be shuffled exclusively by a gentle automatic sleeved card shuffling machine, with cards dealt on draw by a professional dealer. Anything less and I have to suspect the entire thing is a scam to try and get players to spend more money on Magic products

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

whydirt posted:

I know that’s a joke, but Magic players getting to shuffle and deal their own decks in anything resembling a high stakes tournament is nuts

There's another Earth plane out there where Magic has the popularity and cultural pull of televised sports in our world. Wizards building Magic Stadiums leeching off taxpayer money in major cities. Players doping noopic drugs for a perceived edge. Kids catching exiled cards as they are flung to the stands (fresh league-provided printed every card & sleeved every game, obviously player-owned items not allowed). People sneaking in tech to be able to read miniscule material variations in even the freshest sleeves/cardbacks. Hooligan violence after fav lost to mana flooding. Scratchers sold at gas stations but you scratch to reveal what card is hidden under, hoping to get a dual land or some other rare lotto chase card. special version of the game with no-gambling because of gambling laws. Foils aren't damaged by default. One sunday a year everyone gets drunk and eats garbage food while watching the Ultra Pro Championship. Instead of players manipulating shuffles and marking cards n poo poo we get more elaborate make-a-movie-about-it schemes and hijinks for trying to corrupt, plant, or manipulate a licensed Magic Dealer or particular Magic Casino.

Having a dealer might even open up new design space. Wonder if they'd change the language of drawing cards?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Has there ever been a movie based around or even nominally involving Magic or another TCG? I can think of some anime but not any live action films or shows. Or even just a one off episode, like some shows have a DnD-esque episode in some fashion. ill even take a family guy reference bit. maybe big bang theory mentioned it once, anything?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

AngryBooch posted:

Rhystic Study reprint and anime Kasmina in Jumpstart 2022:


This Jumpstart set seems kinda fun and I'd love to get some rhystic studieses. This art's a little more fun than the elf chilling.

Who's the blue woman and are those fangs or more like a troll's tusks? Is her hair on fire a little bit or is there little phoenix or something nesting there?

precision posted:

You know, I just had to finally tell youtube to stop showing me pleasant kenobi poo poo

I checked him out a few times after seeing some of the relatively chill podcast eps he does with the professor. His videos all have the very basic clickbaity structure and it kinda felt like he was always just ranting and railing about Magic instead of making interesting or useful content. Everyone playing magic has all the magic ranting I ever need covered so don't need always-pissed youtubers.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 22, 2022

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
please tell me there's a lil angel equivalent

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Bugsy posted:

And the other one is Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy.

https://scryfall.com/card/stx/250/zimone-quandrix-prodigy

That's awesome, flaming headband thingies. And Mercurial Artist being a copy spell effect and zimone a draw effect is a fun include for a card that you draw when another player casts something -- cool!

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
is it just a bunch of plain envelopes with 1 card in each?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Rutibex posted:

Ahhh, sorry I just started reading this thread because I've been playing magic over lunch with some new friends. I haven't bought a magic card in years, I love the game but the sales model absolutely doesn't work for me.

I'd be very happy if they made magic into a LCG and let me buy a full set of Antiquities or Legends for $40 print on demand. But obviously they would lose money doing that :v:

lol I've been avoiding this game most my life because I hate the gambling and business model of it, but also know I can totally be grifted on poo poo like this.

Depending on what you wanna do, you can play cheaply theoretically, but goddamn if you wanna explore it's gonna cost ya. These days I've started to just get proxies of any card over a certain amount, that seems to lower over time. 2-3 bucks or so per proxy of basically anything expensive and neato for a deck. There's also even cheaper options like MPCFill I need to explore, maybe just print entire decks in one batch rather than mixing select proxies into deck.

The funness of this game is only matched by the shittiness of it's intended economics. I hope proxy normalization continues especially since income inequality aint getting any better. Everyone I've introduced to the game had a blast and would probably enjoy playing it again or even regularly but lol you have to be predisposed to this kind of suckery to see how much it costs. Like, even a 100% proxy deck is way more than most people expect to spend on a game, let alone just a single deck for a specific subset of formats.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Rutibex posted:

Wow you are much fancier than me. I use magic Forge to make up sets of cards then export the pictures to print at the library. I can get nine cards onto a single page for $0.25. I just cut out the slips of paper and shove them into the front of a sleeve with a real card.

I try to use as many real cards in my cube as possible, but my collection of cards is mostly a random assortment of rubbish from the last 20 years I bought at a garage sale. I pawned all of my actual old cards long ago for weed money.

Yeah definitely the relatively-expensive proxy route to import from the fancy bootleggers. I think I just have a thing for bootlegs, like I've always wanted to buy some bootleg shoes or try to snag knockoff copyright toys when I see em. Something about the obtuse notion of authenticity of goods that could be reproduced arbitrarily and whose value is mostly psychic, makes it kinda fun to have the "fake" copies or imitations of.

I wonder if they were outright welcome to proxying and customized cards people can make for themselves, if it would become kind of like the "free" players/volunteers in f2p mtx games. Main hurdle to playing Magic is finding the space and people to play it with. A lot of folks are always going to want to have whatever the most expensive and rare options are, especially if there's something to contrast it against. So many people bounce off this game because they are not or cannot dump the money when there's so many ways to have fun that don't charge so much for so little.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Yeah definitely wish my LGS had some food or a little bar for FNM. There's a D&D / Tabletop bar up the block and a large barcade as well, think there's still room for gaming + drugs. Especially if you're sitting there on bye, they have a little cooler with a couple drinks and some pocky type snacks but I don't usually buy, but I'd probably have a beer or something to pass the time.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

I brought my Drake posted:

My playgroup is strangely resistant to playing around food and drink, even though everyone sleeves and most double-sleeve. A shame, because 10-15 years ago it was great fun to go to FNM and then play EDH and Planechase at the nearby diner for a couple hours after.

I don't usually double sleeve just because woof, what a hassle, but i always get thirsty and snacky while playing. what the hell is the point of sleeving up if we cant live a little. i dont play commander at my LGS, just draft. but there's a group and discord in town that meets at least once a week at a local bar. been too cold for the outside benches and indoors the tables are super tiny, slightly overlapping playmats tiny and folks still manage a spot for drinks without spilling.

I wish I was around for Planechase and also [literally all of them before DMU] but Planechase in particular seems like an interesting version of the game.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
I've been stuck in this pod for 2 days straight, getting so drat thirsty, I can barely announce my land per turn. there are more lands in play than there were cards in all out decks when it started. everyone is paying the one. nobody is trying to win. We have shown and seen each other's personalities so much we don't whose is who's anymore. If only someone here had copied the strongest 2 card combo deck they found online we could be free

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
singleton alone makes commander shoot up high in my format rankings. boo to the oppression of including 4x of the same most-efficient thing, that's three different things I could've had instead. if consistency is soooo dang important why not just make 15 card decks and marry them

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Rutibex posted:

15 card decks would be an interesting format. You would need to agressivly ban certain cards, but if you tune it right you could end up with Wizard Chess. Just take all of the randomness out of the game and rely on 100% side boarding skill.
Wonder how it would actually look to play, in some ways for some hypertuned decks kinda feels like just cutting out the middleman of tutoring out every part and ramping and whatnot. just load your magic shotgun and unload and see who wins, swap some ammo and start game 2. still some variance with 8 cards to draw from. can we can add a dealer who has some river cards anyone can play once revealed?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

precision posted:

That's clever, but doesn't work. What I meant is, why would anyone put down or judge other people's way of playing?

As for commander, I completely understand the appeal, as I tried to clarify, the only part I don't understand is the seemingly contradictory nature of wanting rules, but wanting freedom. If I were to play Commander I would absolutely want to just make up my own cards, at least most of them. I guess my only real question was why people don't make their own cards more

Sometimes even the professional card game designers have a hard time making balanced and fun cards/sets/decks. The average person is not going to be a good card designer, or a worldbuilder, or an artist, or have the crew with good game knowledge to playtest with. It can also be hard to exercise restraint to not just print cards that perfectly do what you want, with a "downside" that is also exactly what you want.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
they should just print better versions of them. a mox that costs -1 so you gain a mana when it's played. a black lotus that doesn't sacrifice. an ancestral recall that lets you draw every card from every deck. how can these people even call themselves card designers if they evidently can't design a card more strongly than some cards made up last century. if they print a stronger power 9 people wouldnt be mad about the 1,000 dollar thing anymore

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
what happens when that kind of grognard are upset? I haven't had any bad LGS/mtg experiences yet.like, just be a jerk during the match, or refuse to play, or make some commotion about it? I'm trying to imagine it and the person mad because their dual land cost 800 bucks and someone else's cost 3 and it seems like the 800 dollar guy would be the weirdo in the situation.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Toshimo posted:

What are you even talking about? If you brought fake cards to a real tournament and someone caught it, you'd be disqualified. Those are the rules.

I was picturing people playing vintage at a bar or LGS or whatever for fun, not being DQ'd at a wizard tournament

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
For me the fact that they found an easy way to tap into the secondary market to profit directly from it's ludicrousness is all I need to know, to know they won't reprint RL cards in a normal fashion. Have they tried doing Magic Arena Secret Lairs yet? I would expect an Arena-only power 9 re-release or secret lair or something before I'd expect a paper one.

In my dreamworld they revisit the earliest sets, but with modern design knowledge and take the concepts of cards and make em playable again, make the set draftable. Is that kinda what they're doing with the next big release dominaria remastered, or is that just curating existing cards and repacking em essentially?

Speaking of old lovely cards, is upkeep as a mechanic ever interesting? Was it interesting back in the day when many minions had it and you might not have the choice to use anything else. Does it ever get more interesting than paying upkeep costs during upkeep phase, like, it's hard to imagine playing with it today where keeping open mana is for surprise spells on opponent turn, not holding back so you can pay your taxes start of turn. Still, curious if a commander pod playing all upkeep-based decks would be a fun novelty or a tedious waste of time.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

LGD posted:

upkeep isn't a particularly interesting mechanic inherently, though "ongoing costs for above rate [thing]" is certainly workable design space, its just that most upkeep stuff wasn't particularly good/above rate (otoh cards with ongoing disadvantages that were above rate did see extensive play: i.e. Ernham, Juzam, Serendib)

cumulative upkeep definitely has a lot more going for it as a mechanic since the timing component makes it inherently interesting and scaling stuff (or not) is easy and has a bunch of mechanical space to work with (plus stuff like Psychic Vortex where the "upkeep" is an advantage) - but by default it's also harsh enough that the payoff needs to be really good to make it worth playing (Mystic Remora is a pretty good example of most of these aspects)

echo and fading/vanishing cover a lot of the same space respectively and imo generally do it better

Mystic Remora was the one that got me thinking about the mechanic, albeit I misunderstood it initially. Most of the other ones I've seen randomly were not good enough to use even without upkeep. I do like the idea of cumulative cost and tax on certain things, could even be a kind of balance check to early advantages from steamrolling. Mythic Rares kinda seem to be lacking a balance or tradeoff for it's optionally increased power per mana, dunno how upkeep/tax might play into that.

Echo and such are good spins on the same idea and I haven't played with em much yet, I think I will keep that in mind for a deck theme eventually.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

LGD posted:

oh yeah, nearly all of those original cumulative upkeep cards were horrendous/unusable and nearly instantly recognized as such in their original context

the entire low-powered time period of The Dark->Homelands was pretty wretched and any given set only really contributed a tiny handful of standout cards to tournament decks, which otherwise leaned heavily on core/earlier sets

Ice Age was better than the other sets in that time period, but was still low powered and didn't really buck that pattern, since its profound/defining impact on early M:tG came through Necropotence, with most other cards being roleplayers (Demonic Consultation, Incinerate, Icequake, etc.)

the jump in card quality from Mirage on was extremely noticeable and heartening (Alliances actually had a ton of powerful/impactful cards but the overall feel and design was uneven/weird/transitional)

That's wild, had no idea. I kinda assumed these old sets I browsed full of just lovely cards were actually full of little gems that had their time to shine only back in the very early metagames and formats. Seems the reality was for a long time they kinda printed crap without too much of an idea what would be played with much of it and the road to sets being something fun in limited environments was a longer road than just alpha/beta. This somehow doesn't make me want to draft a crusty ancient set any less, especially if it wasn't designed for that environment.

I opened some Strixhaven packs last night and I wasn't around to play it, but going through the packs without knowing anything from the set, I still kept finding familiar cards. A card that's just Epic Confrontation with diff costs and art, same for Broken Wings. Which with a few more drafts under my belt makes sense, keeps a green deck feeling like a green deck across drafts. but it also kinda made these mysterious new-to-me strixhaven cards feel less exciting in a way since I'm starting to be able to expect/predict certain things in each set (and i assume this will also translate to me being able to appreciate the unqiue cards and little things that make a draft environment different than others).

In any case, will probably always have an underlying desire for some weird limited environment where these super lovely old cards are actually things you consider putting in deck on purpose. I guess what I'm really describing is a cube made up of exclusively terrible cards, such that less-terrible ones become bombs through merely approaching just-mostly-unplayable.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

obithrawn posted:

As teenagers we used to do this at a friend's house, one guy in our group had a ton of random crap from early sets and we would dump it on the floor, pick up a few handfuls, then try to make a deck out of the cards you grabbed and called it "floor sealed". It was a blast.

Floor sealed is the ultimate format. More floor formats!!

Entropic posted:

IMO the most fun restriction for a cube is to only use commons and uncommons.

High-powered cubes have a tendency to all feel very same-y as as they feel obligated to put in all the same staple bomb cards everyone expects, but a Peasant cube lets you build in all sorts of interesting archetypes with cool fun cards that were role players in their original limited formats but didn’t make the leap to Modern or whatever.

Pauper cubes where you only use commons have been a popular thing for ages, but I think commons + uncommons is really a sweet spot for having a lot of creative options and power level that feels high without just revolving around ramping out / trying to counter broken bomb cards.

I feel like there are so many completely lovely rares that just sit there collecting dust that you could easily make a cube containing only crap rares with no rare bombs to compete with. I forget what card it was but at a bro draft a couple weeks ago this rare went completely around the table because nobody would ever put it in their deck.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 29, 2022

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

uggy posted:

Why would you want to play with cards that you would never want to put in your deck?

Because then they'd become cards I wanted to put in my deck. The worst thing a card can be is unplayed. There are also a bajillion terrible cards that still have cool art and ideas but just aren't able to succeed anywhere, but could if you bent over backward to make it so.

Magic is also usually a very complicated game and you just don';t even take a second glance at many cards, like vanilla creatures. I really enjoy magic when players are interacting on the board, when there's a bunch of stuff on all sides and attacking/blocking are common things and sometimes the numbers in the corner are more important than the paragraphs on the body. Creating an environment where just a beefy vanilla minion might actually be a huge threat that feels powerful to drop on board has a novelty to it by it's contrast to every other format.

Looking up cards from that old decklist and saw this on GIS for Brass Man:

I think that's a really fun idea for a life counter, especially if it were themed to your deck. Abacus style is also a nice change of pace, haven't see nthat before.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Rutibex posted:

Some company needs to start printing old magic cards with new AI generated art. Call them Wizard Cards and just release all the sets wotc refuses to print.

They would have to win a lawsuit, but once they do WotC business model would have to change immediately.

no, part of what makes magic cards cool is good art on them and ai generated art is the opposite. There are a billion artists on the planet.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

I once went 10 years thinking my buddy's uncle painted this. He did paint one, but he was copying the original and I just didn't know for the longest time. I even owned a frazetta art book, and we ate at this place called Conan's that was plastered, wall and table, with fantasy art like frazetta's. anyway glad my friend's uncle is getting some work again he was pretty good imo

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Tried someone's vintage cube today, first time drafting any cube.

My first game, first turn, played a dual land, threw down a mox, and a Mana crypt pretty confident I had that game in the bag. Then I realized my hand was garbage once I looked past those 3 cards. I couldn't even play anything that turn (I mightve had a board wipe I technically could've cast on empty board lol), and my next draw wasn't great, he removed what I played and then destroyed my dual land, 2 of his things and made 3/3s for each destroyed. Whatever, next draw was decent... then I realized that dual land was my only source of white mana in the deck, I threw in all mountains and forgot to add any plains, with a mostly white hand.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
hah i passed on a mox because I wanted the black lotus, and then i passed on another one because it wasn't in my colour (and almost every card was something you definitely wanted or wanted everyone else not to have anyway), then I took the next one because I realized it doesn't matter lol.

Last week I got a delivery error notice and had to pay 39 cents in extra postage to receive a letter from a shop on TCGPlayer, whic hwas more than the cards and also already paid a buck for shipping. When I opened it up to sleeve the last 3 cards to complete my deck, it was like 9 cards for some random card game, Vanguard. Thankfully drafting that cub today had some time and browsed the store's singles inventory and got the 3 cards immediately which was nice, need to remember to go in person since their tcgplayer store isn't as updated it seems.

Anyway I have a new appreciation for Magic's sensibility WRT art and card text. Yeah, sometimes they blow a lot of space for one single keyword, or like any non-full art basic land seems silly use of frame/text box since it's... so basic. These vancards were all full-art with suuuuper tiny text and text boxes at the bottom, but they also include a lot of even smaller text inside of symbols and bubbles to explain the card's actions. Look at this one:



It's not a ton of text, but it's nearly half the size of normal magic card text. It has some inscrutable symbols with what I assume is important relevant information.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

neaden posted:

https://twitter.com/GavinVerhey/status/1599416340476940288?s=20&t=CY99xm4XP4TNO2aGXAO3iw
They have no idea what they are doing if they didn't realize this and white plume adventurer would have a high impact on legacy.

is this just the angry nature of mtg twitter or are players having major beef with this? i havent played vintage but from the outside it seems like most of the decks barely change and are full of a small pool of the most expensive OP stuff. initiative seems like something easy to take for yourself. is there just no room for creatures or removal if youre jamming the power 9 into every deck? Ii'm missing something, think I've only played 1 or 2 games where dungeons were in play.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
i was looking at random vintage meta decks and this one kind of seems fun just looking at the list: https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/hollow-vine-decklist-by-swiftwarkite2-1515142

Bazaar of Baghdad seemed like a bad card when I first read it but wow, you could mill some of them lizards, cast em for 0, then summon free vengevines? Summon some other freak when playing a land. Deathrite shaman doing whatever it wants. Exile buncha graveyard to summon a dark souls boss. Only 2 moxes and no tutors!! I want to play that someday.

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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Big Leg posted:

because there are a lot of matchups where taking the initiative might as well say 'you win the game'.

Won't the meta just adjust to this or is that something these formats are supposed to not really have to deal with?

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