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Twilight 2000 is an apocalyptic roleplaying game that takes place in the waning aftermath of WW3. I'll be revising this sketch of an OP often, but I wanted to get it out now that 4th edition is a reality. Like any franchise that's been around for 30 years, T2K has given rise to a family of iterations and related games. Twilight 2000 first edition (1984): this version was a D% roll-under system, and was significant for its innovative playing cards NPC reaction mechanic. At a time when alignment was in its infancy, this system lets the GM quickly attribute human motivation and goals to NPCs. First edition also features a different backstory than subsequent editions: WW3 was sparked by an intra-Communist war between China and the USSR that escalated and enveloped the world. Traveler 2300AD (1986): 300 years after the world's end, the world is back! With spaceships and cyberpunk elements. This game has nothing to do with Traveler, and subsequent printings dropped the word from the title. Twilight 2000 2nd edition (1990): This version uses a modified d20 engine, and brought the storyline more in-line with real-world events. This time around, the real-life attempted KGB coup was successful. Soviet hardliners abort glasnost, and the much anticipated USSR vs USA conflict finally happens. Germany reunites after military on both sides of the wall conspire, and things end in the same anarchy as first edition. Merc 2000 (1990): This spinoff takes place in a parallel world where the Twilight War happened but eh, wasn't so bad. Governments still exist and they're still awful, and they still need player characters to covertly do their dirty work. It uses the mechanics of 2nd edition. Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (1990): This uses the same rules-set, so is theoretically compatible with 2nd edition - Or would be if anyone living today had seen a copy of C&D. 2.2 revision (1993) This version mechanically cleans up 2.0 a bit, and was the definitive edition for years. It was unfortunately rare, but largely compatible with second edition. Twilight 2013 (2006): This was pretty dumb. Everyone ignores it. Twilight 2000 fourth edition (2021): This one is coming soon, but has already arrived for some lucky kickstarter backers. Challenge resolution is via a limited dice pool - skill and stat each contribute one die, the size of which is determined by how good/talented you are. Character generation is vastly streamlined, allowing a basic (but interesting) PC to be sketched out in minutes. It also notably preserves the storyline from 2nd edition, which has transitioned from speculative- to historical-fiction over the years. 4th edition also embraces civilian characters, which weren't always represented in previous editions. moths fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 16:49
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 T2K is unique in that it gives players almost total latitude in what they want to do. It's a sandbox by design. So you set your own goals, which was absolutely unheard of in an era of heroic fantasy and mission-based gameplay. One common goal for American characters, is getting home. But "home" can mean many things, and often the other players represent the only family you've got left. The ghosts of institutions exist, but only with whatever power is ascribed to them. Military player characters might have rank, but that only matters to people who care. Money exists, but without a government to back it. You end up with a lawless Wild West frontier setting, minus the racist elements. For a military wargame created in the 80s, it's surprisingly anti-war. There's nothing inherently noble in NATO's role, and nothing particularly sinister in Pact's. There's also an amount of inclusion and representation (thorough every edition) that is an accurate reflection of military life. This dramatically sets it apart from other games of the era, but it's gladly become the industry standard. moths fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 16:49
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I'll add some pictures of the set a little later today, but I want to point out that Twilight 2013 is indeed very dumb. I think I got it super cheap once and iirc the timeline is pretty much blaming Obama or something similar with some really transparent and obvious drivel.
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Nov 9, 2021 17:35
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I remember reading about Twilight 2000 in Dragon Magazine in the mid-1990s and it always seemed really unique to me. There's plenty of post-apocalyptic games out there but not many mid-apocalypse games. At the same time, the setting feels like the stories you can tell with it are pretty limited for exactly that reason - it seems like you're trying to play a campaign in a context that is going to resolve into some stable form in a couple of years one way or another.
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Nov 9, 2021 18:39
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Notahippie posted:I remember reading about Twilight 2000 in Dragon Magazine in the mid-1990s and it always seemed really unique to me. There's plenty of post-apocalyptic games out there but not many mid-apocalypse games. At the same time, the setting feels like the stories you can tell with it are pretty limited for exactly that reason - it seems like you're trying to play a campaign in a context that is going to resolve into some stable form in a couple of years one way or another. Actually it's a pretty diverse offering. Including the Soviet Invasion of Texas. Check out this link of the various campaigns from version 1 (and this new version has conversion info) and in the related section below. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/81373/T2000-v1-Twilight-Encounters
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Nov 9, 2021 18:43
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moths posted:Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (1990): This uses the same rules-set, so is theoretically compatible with 2nd edition - Or would be if anyone living today had seen a copy of C&D. I found a copy in a Value Village for $2 and I am never letting it go
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Nov 10, 2021 00:52
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I am jealous as heck right now.
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Nov 10, 2021 01:01
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Twilight 2000 v2.2 was my white whale as a kid. I really wanted to play the drat thing but my group of 12 year old friends weren't interested in gritty soldiering in a post apocalypse. I ended up with Rifts and D&D instead, but when alone I gathered up my T2k gear books and Jane's manual and dreamt of the day I could finally play it. Now with 4th edition in the mail I find that my group of adult players also doesn't want to do gritty hexcrawls in an alternate, post apocalyptic past. I'm going to work on them with some one shots to break up a long running superhero campaign and maybe it will hit enough to develop some traction.
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Nov 10, 2021 02:18
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moths posted:I am jealous as heck right now. It's actually a really well put together book, the art is A+ and has a ton of pages to photocopy equipment, vehicles, supply etc cards to keep track of inventory. I am slowly convincing my D&D group to give it a shot.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:37
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Sixfools posted:It's actually a really well put together book, the art is A+ and has a ton of pages to photocopy equipment, vehicles, supply etc cards to keep track of inventory. I am slowly convincing my D&D group to give it a shot. It's kind of amazing how much licensed stuff got an RPG back in the day. Also I'm taking pictures of the box shortly, work has been kind of crazy, sorry about that. It is cool as hell though and follows the rule of stuffed to the brim so you can use the box as a self defense item in a pinch.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:24
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Also I'm taking pictures of the box shortly, work has been kind of crazy, sorry about that. It is cool as hell though and follows the rule of stuffed to the brim so you can use the box as a self defense item in a pinch. The real old school renaissance
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Nov 10, 2021 16:27
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Notahippie posted:The real old school renaissance Indeed. Also for anyone interested this is streaming now and it might be cool to stick into the OP. It's an overview of the core products. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cP0Jx1LSog
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Nov 10, 2021 17:05
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My Kickstarter stuff came in the mail yesterday and I'm jazzed about it. I plan to read the Player and Referee manuals multiple times to distract myself from the fact I don't have a group to play this with.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:01
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rydiafan posted:My Kickstarter stuff came in the mail yesterday and I'm jazzed about it. I plan to read the Player and Referee manuals multiple times to distract myself from the fact I don't have a group to play this with.  It's like guys I know you like Dragons and Cyberstuff, but can we please try something else. lol I'm hoping we can put something together here. I actually just got Foundry's Virtual Tabletop and the T2K module that Free League created.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:07
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I'm about to kick off a PbP/asynchronous game on Foundry myself, so hit me up if you want to do some of that. I'd be down for some live games too but am in dumb timezone (NZT) so that'd be a stretch. The kickstarter stuff is super nice - I posted a first look at the box contents here and working through the books this week to do a write up on the game itself. It's beautiful quality though, in keeping with Fria Ligan's previous releases, and a well deserved update to this setting. I only ever played 2nd Edition previously, and only twice so not much experience to compare it too, but I'm liking it so far regardless.
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Nov 10, 2021 22:14
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Spiteski posted:I'm about to kick off a PbP/asynchronous game on Foundry myself, so hit me up if you want to do some of that. I'd be down for some live games too but am in dumb timezone (NZT) so that'd be a stretch. Hey if you're willing to DM I'm willing to work around Bob Semple Time Zones.  Also drat your pics are a crap ton better then mine. lol
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Nov 10, 2021 22:19
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Yea I'm a forever DM so that's fine. Weekends might be the best way to get cross-timezone coverage. Also, now i"m thinking about leaving precarious piles of corrugated iron and a working tractor in every town... just in case...
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Nov 10, 2021 22:26
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Spiteski posted:Yea I'm a forever DM so that's fine. Weekends might be the best way to get cross-timezone coverage. Weekend is fine for me and honestly (I'm EST) late at night is okay (and we can always alternate one night/one afternoon and switch). I look forward to making my DIY Bob Semple.
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Nov 10, 2021 22:36
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Twilight 2000 was the first game I ever pre-ordered, or ordered by mail. I saved up money and sent away for it based on the ad in Dragon magazine. I spent many hours in games in apocalyptic Poland back in the day. It's still one of my favorite settings. I'm hoping my kickstarter arrives soon. Far Future Enterprises makes legal CDs with pdfs of all of the old games, modules, supplements, and magazine articles here, it's well worth it. Edit: One minor bit of trivia - much of the art in the original Twilight: 2000 boxed set was sorta-traced or copied from the Vietnam photos of a famous photographer named Tim Page. Page was himself more than partially the basis for the Dennis Hopper / crazy photojournalist in the movie Apocalypse Now. For an example of one of Page's photos - well, does this look familiar? 
Cessna fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 01:24
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What is that man carrying on his chest? Looks like a bunch of rest stop bathroom paper towels.
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Nov 11, 2021 01:48
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Along with first edition, there's also Last Battle, pretty much a straight-up wargame supplement for T2K, essentially a man-to-man version of the much larger scale "First Battle" system of games from around then. A friend of mine is starting a 4th ed campaign, and it's interesting to see all the changes since the original--some of the obvious speculative FUTURE TECHNOLOGY stuff isn't there, and some of the things the original failed to anticipate (the Javelin ATGM, M4 carbine, etc.) that had to be added in. 4th ed shares a lot of DNA with their Aliens RPG, including a very very lethal treatment of firearms. The inclusion of Sweden as a major campaign area is interesting, but I guess unsurprising as I think it's a Swedish company making it. Madurai fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 02:17
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As a joke I read Twilight 2013 for a few minutes (drive-through RPG had it for like an insanely cheap price once) and I forgot that the President abolishes the federal government…it’s so dumb…and not in a good fun way.
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Nov 11, 2021 03:13
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Phanatic posted:What is that man carrying on his chest? Looks like a bunch of rest stop bathroom paper towels. I'm guessing some type of linen he bought off a local vendor since most Vietnam era US military stuff was olive green. I thought maybe wood but there's actually a back holder for that. EDIT: I think it's funny they used Vietnam era pictures as influences when Twilight 2000 was closer to Stripes than that. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 06:13
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2.2 got a Finnish translation back in the day and the publisher printed way too many copies. Every nerd in and around Helsinki ended up getting a free copy when they finally emptied their warehouse a few years back.
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Nov 11, 2021 07:01
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Madurai posted:Along with first addition, there's also Last Battle, pretty much a straight-up wargame supplement for T2K, essentially a man-to-man version of the much larger scale "First Battle" system of games from around then. They just gotta get Sweden in there wherever they can.
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Nov 11, 2021 11:32
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Phanatic posted:What is that man carrying on his chest? Looks like a bunch of rest stop bathroom paper towels. Vietnam was a wet place. Seriously, I don't know. Carrying something white in the jungle seems like a bad idea. Maybe bandages?
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Nov 11, 2021 15:57
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So you can roll a number of ammo dice equal to the rounds remaining in your magazine, and a hit on an ammo die lets you hit an additional target, meaning any time you have a single round left (and are willing to risk weapon degradation if you push) you have a 16.6% chance of hitting two birds with one stone. This isn't really an issue, since it's so corner-case, but I now have dreams of a player who leaves a single round in all their clips and fishes for Wanted style ricochets.
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Nov 11, 2021 23:49
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The PDF version is now for sale for those interested. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/358090
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Nov 16, 2021 16:45
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My copy arrived today. It is packed in a metal can. I love this.
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Nov 16, 2021 22:12
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So anyone get any headway in playing a game?
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Nov 27, 2021 21:32
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So anyone have a chance to play yet?
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Jan 8, 2022 22:28
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My Pre-order got sent to my old apartment and disappeared so that was disappointing, but at least I have the PDFs. I haven't gotten a chance to play yet since it's hard enough to get people to play DnD let alone a non D20 system. If you start an online game I would be down. The one thing I've seen that I don't like is the ammo dice. I don't like how it seems to encourage a lot of spray and pray. That might also be because I don't intend to play in their alt-history Eastern Europe military centric setting. I just want the system.
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Jan 9, 2022 06:13
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Yea I've played two games now (no games run myself) and it was a mixed bag. One was definitely not my bag in terms of the group. It was very large, 7 players, and there was 3 super groggy milsim tryhards that got upset at anyone getting any weapon/equipment terminology not correct so that was miserable. The other group was much more my speed, pretty relaxed on the whole super accurate milsim stuff. Game itself is ok. It's a nice build on the YZEngine, and its build on the larger dice introduced in Forbidden Lands is quite good in practice. I have since sold my physical copy though, and elected to buy it on FVTT instead as my inperson group is unlikely to ever want to play, or enjoy this game.
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Jan 10, 2022 22:09
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This was the ruleset they used for Dark Conspiracy, right? I remember liking a lot about that game (the playing card system for NPC motivations was a big 'un) but I wasn't able to get a campaign going. To be fair I don't think I was really ready to run it.
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Jan 15, 2022 14:04
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evenworse username posted:This was the ruleset they used for Dark Conspiracy, right? Yes, whichever version of T2K had a d10 roll under used that same GDW house system. I think it was changed in later versions. Anyway, I'm a huge Free League fanboy and kinda want this as much to do actual T2K as much as trying to hack it into a workable system for a Metal Gear game. Anyone though of that with this or is there a better version of Year Zero that would work?
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Jan 19, 2022 21:18
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Twilight? Did someone say Twilight? Hell yeah. I freaking LOVE this game and having run all of the modules for my gaming group (as a player or DM) I look back on this game with fondness and a nostalgia that won't go away. I was a 1st edition guy myself and had to go dig up my books from my file cabinet:   I have an online game log of our most recent journey though the Europe books and I may post a book by book summary of them if there's interest, but for now you can enjoy the player map of that campaign with the route taken by my players highlighted in black ink:  It starts 15 June 2000 when the US 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized) jumps off on its raid from Chojnice Poland for the Escape from Kalisz module and ends on 15 November 2000 in Bremerhaven, Germany as the last remaining PC boards DD981 USS John Hancock of Task Force 34 at the end of Going Home. Crazy part of this campaign is that google maps didn't exist yet so we used encyclopedias, and roadmaps from triple-A, and tourism books to get a feel for the flavor of the regions whereas now you can literally trace the Vistula river and roadways with a click-drag of a mouse.
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Jan 19, 2022 22:47
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That is a super cool memory to have and that map is awesome.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:12
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Yeah, that is so cool and honestly it's probably far more immersive for RPing then using a computer setup. I'd love to see the logs posted.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:16
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If you feel like a lot of reading then here's the Autumn Twilight campaign. It's got a vast of characters and a really long single page campaign log if you don't feel like clicking though the daily journal. Please ignore the horrible, horrible formatting. And holy poo poo, this journal has an active webring link at the bottom. I'd completely forgotten about that.
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Jan 20, 2022 01:51
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T2K starring Tom Berenger and Nic Cage. 
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Jan 20, 2022 02:19
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