Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

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Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Welcome to the Fifth Edition of the Something Awful Board Game Thread!

The previous edition of the thread is here, but it's now out of print and going for like $200 on eBay, sheesh.

Here we talk about board games, card games, and other forms of analog in-person entertainment. The face of board games has changed a lot in the last seven years, with the advent of app-supported games and the prevalence of playing online. Though honestly if you're plugged into the hobby well enough to know that already, feel free to take the rest of the OP off and go to the pub. I'm looking to proselytize to some new potential converts to the wonderful world of board games. People who might ask a question like this:

Wait, do you mean like Monopoly?
Sort of? Many of us have some experience with board games from childhood, possibly playing old games like Monopoly and Candy Land, or with latter-day toys such as The Grape Escape. Similarly, many have negative experiences with these games, and that's probably because lots of them are just not very good. Please don't let those experiences dissuade you.

Today, board games are far beyond these stodgy preconceptions. They are not instruments to make children be quiet for 2 hours anymore; they can be quality entertainment products for all ages. Even if you have bad memories of being stuck with just Baltic Avenue and $4 to your name, don't worry. With the advent of so-called hobbyist or designer board games, the possibility space is so much greater than cheap toys for babby. A lot of smart people have looked into what makes games interesting and/or fun, then set about to create new games expounding upon those new ideas. In the same way that American gridiron football had different rules in the 1930s, board games have similarly been updated to make them better and more entertaining.

There are now board games for essentially everyone and anyone. The hobby has been growing in popularity for some time, with some choice games from the 60s through the 80s, but the hobby got a big boost in the mid-nineties with the release of the smash hit Catan. In those past 25+ years, hobbyist board gaming has grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. Recently, designer board games have even started to appear in big box stores like Target and Walmart, demonstrating the broad market for these products.

I'm new. What do I need to know to start?
There are so many things to consider when getting a game. You could find a game that has a theme you like, but there's no guarantee it's actually mechanically sound and lots of good games are theme-less or have poor thematic integration. You could try and find a game with a mechanism you find fun, but early in your hobbyist tenure you might not even know what you like yet. You could look online for "top board game lists" but sometimes those lists are extremely broad and contain some real clunkers you won't know to avoid. Any of these pitfalls could cause you to feel like you've wasted your entertainment dollar.

Based on this, in my opinion the two most important things for a beginner are:

The number of people who can play the game (sometimes called the Player Count)
The complexity of the game (sometimes called the Weight of the game)

Player count is important because you are going to want a game that can fit into the size of gaming event you're going to have. For instance, the types of games you're going to play with just you and your spouse will be different than a game you want to take to a social gathering of twelve people. These player counts are almost always in a range. For instance, High Society says "3-5 players" so you would not want to buy that if the only person you will play with is your spouse, because the rules do not support two players. On the other hand, it might be perfect if you're playing with just you and your three children. Also, it's important to know that a lot of games for 2 players can only accept 2 players maximum, so they are something of their own category.

Complexity is important because some games are considerably more complicated than the classics you may remember. This complexity is normally discussed in terms of 'weight': Light for low-complexity games, Medium for more complex games, and Heavy for even more complex games, and sometimes shades in between like 'medium-heavy' and so on. This usually matters for the sake of comparison. For instance, a game like Root is considerably more complicated than a game like Through the Desert which is still arguably more complicated than Monopoly. Not everyone is prepared to learn a lot of rules to play a game, particularly if they have not played many games before. That is perfectly understandable. Fortunately, there are plenty of excellent games that are simple, elegant and accessible.

There is one other "sub-category" of game you might hear about so let's discuss that quick: "Party Games". Party Games are almost always games with very low complexity and very high player counts. They are meant to be approachable and accept high player counts, and there is some overlap with 'light' games. Among 'classic' board games you may have heard of, these are more like Scattegories or Charades rather than Risk. There is a lot of frivolous junk in the party game space, but there are also many modern party games still have excellent design behind them, even without the rules overhead. One such example is the phenomenal smash-hit Codenames.

If you select a game with a player count that works for your nascent board game group and a complexity level you are prepared to tackle, you are much less likely to feel like you wasted your money.

Where can I get this information about player count and weight?
BoardGameGeek.com is the Internet's largest board game database. If you know the title of a game, you can type it into the search bar and find the page for that game. That page will have lots of information about it, including player counts and complexity. Complexity is not an exact science, so the listed complexity are based on a poll of BGG users. It's the closest we have to the way the general public feels overall. There are also suggested player counts also based on a poll. For instance, the party game Codenames technically says it's a 2-8 player game on the box, but the community says that it is best at 6 or 8, and not worth playing at 2. (For two player Codenames, pick up the terrific Codenames Duet instead.)

BGG also often has useful documents like rulebook PDFs. They also have forums for discussion, which are handy because they often have answers to rules questions, sometimes even answered by the designer or publisher themselves. BGG is an invaluable resource to any hobbyist board gamer.

Hey, don't tell me what to do, I'm not afraid of complexity!
That's perfectly fair. If you came from TCGs like Magic: the Gathering or miniatures games like Warhammer 40K, you might be able to dive into the deep end a little more than someone trying board games for the first time. This OP is meant to be a resource for someone in this situation: "My sister-in-law said she plays board games? I don't get it. Do we have a thread about that?" If that's not you, :justpost:

!

I'm the opposite of that last person. This sounds scary!
Yeah, it can be intimidating. Worse still, like many other hobbies there is a certain prideful, gatekeeping insularity from certain entrenched individuals that will make things seem unapproachable. Soapbox time: Just because you are not prepared to play a complicated game does not make you any less worthy of the joy that is playing board games. Board games are for everyone but not every game is for every person, and that's okay. The important thing is that you and your friends have fun gaming. Lots of gamers, including some thread denizens, have forgotten this or they fail to imagine how difficult learning can be when you don't have 20+ years of experience understanding the 'grammar' of games. Don't let anyone make you feel small just because you like simpler games.

Game complexity is a sliding scale: a game like Eclipse is way, way, way more complicated than most classic board games and I would not put it in front of a new gamer. However, it is still considerably less complicated than thread favorites Food Chain Magnate or 1830. So, keep that all in mind when someone tells you that some game "isn't really that complicated" in a dismissive manner. If you're unsure if they're trolling or not, check the BGG weight to get an idea of the consensus.

I don't like the idea of teaching a game to others. It's too much pressure!
I get ya. I have been the designated rules monkey for my game group for years, and I still get anxious about it. If you end up joining an existing group, they may already have a teacher and you can focus on learning, but if you're trying to create a board game group yourself, that responsibility will probably fall on you.

Here are a few beginners tips for teaching board games:

Read the rulebook ahead of time.
Don't expect to go to a friend's place, remove the shrink wrap from the game and start reading the rules aloud. Not only is that rude and a waste of your friends' time, it's also difficult. It's critical that you know the game rules before board game day. Also, if you already know but haven't played or taught it in a while, set aside time to refresh your memory.
Before your first play, set up the game alone, and consider playing a few steps of a simulated game.
Sometimes the pure relation of ideas in the rulebook is not clear until you actually manipulate game pieces. I remember playing Cosmic Run completely cold with 2 others who had also never played. The game's owner was occupied and couldn't teach us, so I read the rulebook (breaking rule #1, of course). We struggled through it until we started playing, and it all instantly fell into place. The game is actually quite simple but trying to extract it all from pure rules was more arduous. Do yourself the favor and handle the pieces while learning rules, and if you have time, run through a few turns, playing each player yourself.
If possible, experience the game before explaining the game.
Besides learning from someone else who already knows the rules, the most straightforward way to be exposed to real gameplay is some form of 'actual play' board game video project. You can type "GAME NAME playthrough" into YouTube and usually find something. That additional exposure will hopefully help the rules stick in your mind a bit more, but these videos can be quite lengthy. Another option is to find a way to play the game alone or online. (More about both these points later.)
Explain the object of the game (in thematic terms, if applicable) and how someone wins at least twice, near the beginning and near the end.
It's all well and good to explain the rules in a vacuum, but so often we forget to adequately describe the goal of a game, leaving learners adrift without any idea about why their actions matter. I suggest starting with something like "This game is called High Society. We are all super-duper rich, but hey, what's the point of being rich if you can't show it off, amiright? Everyone starts with the same amount of money, and the goal of the game is to purchase the most extravagant luxuries at auction. But be careful, as the player who ends the game with the most amount of money will be cast out and cannot win." Keep it brief, then explain the rules themselves. At the end, highlight the victory condition again.
Be patient with questions.
Are you becoming frustrated that players are asking questions that you're sure you already explained again and again? Suck it up. Your role here is not to demonstrate your amazing teaching skills, but to get the rules into the heads of your players while supporting a fun environment for everyone.
First games are learning games.
There are certain people with a deep enough competitive streak that means they will want to win their first game. This can be an issue because (despite all your hard work) first games will commonly have minor rules errors, omissions, or misunderstandings, which can cause hard feelings amongst these types of players. If they can't 'turn it off' for their very first game, then one strategy could be to suggest playing a small portion as a test game. Go through the first round or a first few turns as normal, with everyone knowing that this game will not be played to completion and doesn't count. This lets players interact with the systems and get a feel for things, while also giving you the chance to state or re-state rules as needed. Then, once people are ready, you rewind everything back to the initial board state and have a first 'real' game.
Consider going easy on very new players.
As the good doctor says: "When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning..." For you as the teacher of the game, your goal is to engender positive feelings in your players. Hopefully at the end of the game, you will have a convert to board gaming, but that is considerably more likely if they enjoy themselves. This topic is complicated and depends on the individuals. Generally, I'd say don't completely take a dive since that's not good either (except maybe against a child), but if you are aware of some advanced strategies in a game, don't use them to crush and humiliate your opponents. Try and play like a beginner or explore new strategies.
If people lose interest part way through the rules explanation / first play and want to stop, accept that.
The crestfallen board game enthusiast is one thing pop culture gets right about modern board games. Whatever you do, don't be pushy about playing games. Not everyone has the interest or energy at any given moment. It might suck to have someone agree to play and them have them decide they actually don't want to, but I promise you that playing with people who are completely emotionally checked out is so much worse.

If you want more thoughtful discussion of rules teaching in video form, here are some video resources. Your mileage may vary, as these are directed at the more entrenched gamer:

How To Teach Board Games Like a Pro by Quinns of Shut Up and Sit Down.
Board Game Teaching Tips from Monique and Naveen of Before You play with Jon Cox of JonGetsGames and Rodney Smith of WatchItPlayed as guests.
How to Teach Board Games from Paul Grogan of Gaming Rules. (This video was recorded live and has an audio problem, but if you listen with just the right headphone, it's mostly fine.)

Reading is hard. Is there an easier way to learn games?
There is! Multiple YouTube channels exist that create how-to-play rules videos.
Watch It Played!
Gaming Rules
Jon Gets Games

Or you can check out some reviewers who often offer a simple rules explanation as part of their critique:
Shut Up and Sit Down
No Pun Included
ActuaLol
ProZD (This is a comedy/variety channel, but he does a lot of board game content too.)

One' actual play' show to recommend is on BGG's YouTube Channel called "Game Night." There's a lot of other stuff on their channel like previews, etc, but for an example of the Game Night show itself, here is them all playing Just One.

Of course, not every content creator can make time for every game. It's probably easiest to just type "GAME NAME how to play" or "GAME NAME playthrough" into YouTube. Even if it's not one of these, you might find a video from the publisher or even just some random fan.

:eng101:

Some other miscellaneous questions: :eng101:

What if I want to play games but I am simply not very competitive / way too competitive to have any fun? Are there games where we play as a team?
Yes! Co-operative board games are fairly popular and offer gamers non-competitive experiences. Generally, players are working together to accomplish some sort of task. As you may imagine, they skew towards light to medium. These are perfect if you've got a less-entrenched gamer in your life or if you just want to engage in jolly cooperation. Some of the most popular games in the genre are the 2008 release Pandemic and 2019's The Crew.

I saw this game on Kickstarter and it looks soooooo good! Should I back it?
If you're new to the hobby, I do not suggest you support any board games on Kickstarter or other crowdfunding platforms. Kickstarter weaponizes FOMO against its users and often presents games with flashy components and then provides games with under-baked rules. There are some genuine, thread-approved crowdfunding success stories like Root, but there are so many others that fail to deliver what they promise, sometimes quite literally. There is no reason for a new player to feel the need to engage with crowdfunding games because there are just so many great games that you can buy and play right now. Don't worry about missing out. If the game is actually truly excellent and there is enough demand, it will come to retail or there will be a second crowdfunding campaign for a reprint.

Bu-bu-but Uncle Magnetic North, Kickstarter is the only thing that fills the yawning void inside my empty black heart! Is there some way I could justify supporting Kickstarters anyway?
First, it's important to check the "Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games Space" heading in the "Responsibility and Social Issues in Gaming" post to see an additional important reason why this thread specifically does not recommend supporting Kickstarter. However, it would be silly to ignore that that Kickstarter has a big place in the hobby so boycotting them is going to be daunting for some gamers. Thankfully, there's a sweet 'lifehack' that they don't want you to know about!

For the uninitiated, a 'pledge manager' is a separate service that comes after a crowdfunding campaign which lets people finalize and customize what they wish to receive. These are virtually always open ended, letting you pay above your pledge level if you decided you wanted to get a bit more. Why does this matter? Well, many campaigns will let you pledge for just $1 for access to the pledge manager. This will depend on the project; some just let you see the backer-only updates. If they do grant you access to the pledge manager, you can add-on whatever you actually wanted. Why bother with this extra step? Well, apparently Kickstarter gets a cut from the project itself (5% of your pledge), but they do not get a cut from anything going through the pledge manager. That means, if you can pledge for $1 and then get everything else you want through the pledge manager, Kickstarter only gets five cents. It's up to you if you think this is satisfactory, but it's good to know that sometimes you have options. (Thanks to Mayveena for bringing this to the thread's attention.)

Wow, some of these modern board games are actually quite expensive.
Yep. Part of this is because games are a luxury good. However, lots of games are fairly cheap, around $20-$40 USD. Obviously, everyone's discretionary budget is different, and perhaps even $20 is a lot of money to you. The important thing is that you don't feel that if you buy a $100 game, it will be five times more fun than a $20 game. That is simply not the case. I cannot deny that there is a certain 'toy factor' from having nice chunky components in a game, but the things that generate the fun are the rules and the players, not some mostly pointless plastic models. Also, sometimes people who tout extremely expensive games (>$250) are trying to convince themselves that the purchase was worth it. While you're starting out, I suggest sticking with cheaper games, especially since you might not like some of them. It's better to buy 5 games and only like 3 than buy 1 game for the same price and take that same 40% risk of disliking it.

What's this I hear about 'Legacy' games? 'Campaign' games? 'Narrative' games?
Broadly speaking:

A 'narrative' game is a catch-all term where some portion of the enjoyment of a game is delivered by an included story. They may be more like video games, television and movies in that way, as opposed to non-narrative board games which are closer to sporting events.
A 'campaign' game is a game (usually a narrative game, but not always) that has some sort of ability to take place over several concurrent game sessions. Sometimes they are a simple set of disconnected missions played in order, and sometimes the game maintains the state between missions such as equipment gained.
A 'legacy' game is a specific type of campaign game where certain components of the games are permanently marked or even destroyed, rendering every copy unique but un-replayable. Each of these are a growing trend in the industry after the popularity of Pandemic Legacy Season 1.

Legacy games are not the only 'single-use' games out there. There are deductive games with no destruction that can still only be played a limited number of times. since you would already know the secrets to the puzzle. An example to this is the excellent Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Baker Street Irregulars.

There are a lot of these games out there now, and they can vary greatly. If you are worried about the replay value or potential waste, be sure you know what you're in for before buying.

Wait, does this mean board games can have spoilers in them now?
Yes, though classic board games could not be spoiled except by flipping the table or swearing at Grandma, it is possible to spoil the fun of some narrative board games by revealing secrets ahead of time. When discussing the plot details of a narrative game, please be cautious about what you share and use spoiler tags. The proper use of spoiler tags is like this (Game Name) Game spoiler here.

All my friends live far away. Why aren't the board games scientists working to fix this?
They are! It is possible to play board games through the computer. In fact, there are platforms that you can use for free and will run right in your web browser: no installation required. Also, all of these services have gotten permission from the publisher, so it's all totally above board. Most of them also support "asynchronous" play, meaning players can take their turns on their own time, and players will be alerted when it's their turn. It's slower, but more convenient if you can't get everyone around the virtual table at once.

Board Game Arena*: The biggest and best. It has the most advanced tech and the most games, though many popular games are behind a subscription paywall. They also get an astrisk* because they have been bought by Asmodee. Still, it would be disingenuous for me to suggest any board game playing site above them; they are top of the class.

Tabletopia: A very pretty option. Unlike the other options on this list, Tabletopia is a platform where you have to manually manipulate pieces to some degree. There is limited rules enforcement (if any at all), so you'll need to know the game for yourself to prevent accidental cheating. Also, like BGA, Tabletopia is free with some paywalls and can be supported by subscription.

Two small sites worth mentioning:
Yucata Lots of games, pretty darn good interfaces. 100% free.
Bo�te � Jeux Reasonable interfaces, a decent number of games. 100% free, but will be closing down eventually due to being unable to update the site for security.

There are some other sites focused on heavy games that I have not tried but goons recommend: 18xx.games BoardGameCore Rally The Troops SlothNinja

Outside of these sites, the other option for online games is to see if an app has been made for your board game. Apps mostly exist for very popular games, and most of the time I'd only suggest buying one if you are pretty confident you'll love it since they can be pricey.

Hands down, the gold standard of board games apps is the one made for Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilzation. The app implementation is top notch; it is coherent, usable, convenient, and even contains a few minor rules alterations to better support asynchronous online multiplayer. It's also worthwhile on its own because it's an extremely complicated game to play in meatspace. How complicated? It has a higher BGG weight rating than the two games I used earlier to exemplify extremely complicated games. However, the app does tons of the fiddly admin for you. It also has incredibly welcome undo capabilities so you can manipulate your turn all you like in ways that would be much more difficult with the analog board. This allows you to play so much more TTA than you'd ever get to do otherwise.

Hey, isn't there another popular platform for playing board games online?
Check the "Berserk Games / Tabletop Simulator" heading in the "Responsibility and Social Issues in Gaming" post to see why this thread does not recommend that platform.

Apps and websites won't work for me because I either hate technology or have no friends!
You can play board games even without those pathetic creatures of meat and bone, panting and sweating, and without the perfect, immortal machine. 1 player board games are a niche within a niche, but they have been growing in popularity in the past several years. Some games can be made solo with an expansion, some come with additional content in the box already, and some creative gamers have created their own rules for turning non-solo games into solitaire experiences. Beyond those, there are also many dedicated purpose-built solo games as well (as well as some solo games masquerading as multiplayer games). Playing by yourself is not for everyone, especially since it removes the camaraderie and social aspect that many of us like best about this hobby. Still, if you've got the inclination to try them, they might surprise you.

People are talking about a game, and I, having touched the monkey monolith, know that it is actually... A Bad Game! What should I do?
Just focus on the game, not the person. Be concrete. If you think the rulebook was bad, or certain mechanisms are unintuitive or the pieces are cheap and fiddly or there's a misprint or if you just think some other game is better, say that. We're here to help each other. More information lets other thread denizens make informed purchasing decisions.

Someone made fun of my precious baby, the love of my life, my very favorite that I truly know is... A Good Game! What should I do?
Just focus on the game, not the person. Be specific. If you find certain mechanisms clever or you feel it's an improvement on another similar game or you and your friends add a little roleplaying or voices to spice things up or if you just love-love-love the art, say that. We're here to help each other. More information lets other thread denizens make informed purchasing decisions.

What's with this thread and trains?
Train games are a trend going back to before Catan and continuing into today. They are usually very complex games about managing train companies in the 1800s, with track laying and and financial market manipulation. They are commonly named after a year in the 19th century, as they tend to follow from games named 1829 and 1830. The genre generally gets called '18XX' games. If you're new to the hobby, don't worry about them just yet. Get comfortable in the water first. They will still be there once you're ready for them, I promise.

Why does this thread love heavy games so much?
I think it's due to two reasons:
1: Discussion threads will attract the enthusiastic with a wider breadth of experiences.
2: People who get to play a lot of games (multiple times weekly, even) eventually become accustomed to the feeling and start chasing bigger and bigger highs. You know, like drugs!

What's this about Zendo?
Zendo is a strange game based around pure logic, while simultaneously being heavily reliant on the central player being creative... but not too creative. Most who have played it have a love-hate relationship with it. In this thread, it's usually hate.

Forums are old tech, Grandpa! Where else I talk about board games in cyberspace?
We have a Discord!

Whoa, this OP is way too long!
Sure is! If you've got 20 minutes, Actuallol created a an excellent video about the pitfalls facing new board gamers. It covers a huge amount of what was said here, to the point that I now think Jon Purkis is secretly a goon :tinfoil:

The Catan Joke remains forbidden in this thread!

Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jan 5, 2024

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:12

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:27

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Unfortunately, the purchase of such luxury goods is not without a certain level of responsibility to the consumer. For a long time, games have been an insular and hostile place, not just board games. In the last few years, board gaming has worked to become more inclusive in many ways and has been met with vociferous resistance from certain members of the old guard. So, before we continue, let me say without equivocation:

Black Lives Matter
Believe Women
Stop Asian Hate
Love is Love
Trans Rights are Human Rights
End Islamophobia
Representation Matters
Gaming is for Everybody

If you disagree, feel free to keep that to yourself. You will not find many friends in this thread.

Below is a list of things in the board gaming space: Some are concepts, some are individuals, some are events, and they all are provided here to inform your purchasing decisions. Perhaps a designer or publisher espouses views you consider dangerous, or a publisher engages in deceptive business practices. Those are rational reasons to take your business elsewhere. Of course, everyone has different things that are important to them, and they will choose to draw a line some places but not others. I'm not here to engage in prescriptive groupthink. However, in the last few years, I constantly hear two things:

Topics of inclusion and representation that are only just starting to find purchase in our space that I was unaware of before now.
People who bought a game only to later realize that they would rather not have monetarily supported the designer or publisher for whatever reason.

This list aims to raise awareness. It's not really the place to discuss the efficacy of directing your purchases under capitalism. If you don't think it matters, because you feel there is no ethical consumption under capitalism anyway or because the amount of money is too small to make a difference or because you just plain don't care, okay. But lots of people do care, and bad actors prey upon people not knowing. This is an effort to afford people the necessary information to decide for themselves.

For some members of this this thread, I know that not buying certain games is going to be a big ask. If you simply cannot resist despite having a concern, then consider buying them second-hand even if it's a pain in the rear end. Also, if you think your friends would care about these things, be sure to keep other players in the loop as well.

Finally, I'm no expert in any of these social issues: I am just trying to learn from and to elevate these important ideas. If anything in this OP is wrong or misattributed, please PM me. For claims about specific entities like companies and designers, I'm trying to include "receipts" but it's also important you do your own research. It is possible that some of this information is incorrect, misconstrued or a flat-out hoax, so please consider everything below with a gigantic 'allegedly' in front of it. I will endeavor to correct any demonstrable mistakes brought to my attention.

Let's begin with the primary reason I wanted to include this section. I've seen many goons express regret buying his games after hearing more about the sort of person he is. Hopefully, this will help at least one person avoid that upsetting situation.
- - -
Phil Eklund and Ion Games / Sierra Madre Games:

Phil Eklund is a game designer and former rocket scientist, arguably most famous for the Pax series of games and for making extremely complicated games. For a while now, he has been known for injecting his own opinionated screeds into his rulebooks. For one thing, this certainly muddies the water of the "death of the author" talk about separating art from artist and how only the game itself matters; if you buy an Eklund game, some portion of your money is being spent to provide yourself with right-wing propaganda.

However, he is also vociferous on social media on the platforms that he hasn't been banned from. Here are some samples of what he's said and comments on his words by others, grouped by category:

Covid-19 conspiracies: Twitter thread Screenshots: 1 2 3 4
Transphobia: Huge Twitter thread
Pseudohistorical Slavery Revisionism: BGG Thread (see point 6 especially) & BGG Thread (see point 13 especially)
Pro-Colonialism BGG Thread (A discussion of takes.)
Climate Change Denial: BGG Thread (A discussion of takes.)
Gamifying Sexual Assault: Tweet
Antisemitism / Holocaust Denial: Twitter Screenshots: 1 2 3
(Screenshot 3 above one is not written by Eklund, but is directed to him, showing the company he attracts. Normally that would not be worthy of inclusion, except that Eklund chose to like this post.)

If all that's not enough, Twitter user SeanFranco_ (source of some of the above receipts) has helpfully collated and screenshotted a kitchen sink of a thread containing Eklund espousing essentially every awful thing that a person could possibly believe.

Please don't try to get semantic with me about the terms 'climate change denial' or 'antisemitism' or start splitting hairs. Using any euphemisms raised by proponents of these ideas would make me complicit in their scheme to legitimize them. So, I am using the generally accepted terms from Wikipedia, and for those that don't exist broadly (like the slavery and assault topics) I endeavored to describe in brief, clear terms based on similar existing topics. For instance, I called the slavery topic 'psuedohistorical' because Wikipedia describes The Lost Cause of the Confederacy in that way.

Where does Ion fit into this? Well, his company, Sierra Madre Games, was sold to Swedish board game company Ion Games, because Eklund's business was collapsing by his own admission, which seems strange that such an advocate for the free market would rationally allow himself to get screwed over like that, but I digress. I cannot find attribution to this last part, but the reports from the field say that part of the contract with Ion Games gives Eklund a salary rather than the more common practice of royalties from sales. If this is to be believed, that would mean that Ion's success is much more directly tied to Eklund than is typical, and that buying any Ion game could potentially be putting money in Eklund's pocket even if he did not design it.

So, if any of those laundry list of things matter to you, and I would say that at least one of them probably should, then maybe don't buy from Ion Games or Eklund.
- - -
Jeff Bergen and The Gaming Goat:

The Gaming Goat is a games retailer and publisher owned by Jeff Bergen that has been low-level controversial for the last few years. A helpful user on BGG has collated these in this post. This includes mocking the use of pronouns, mocking BLM protests, and making seemingly threatening statements to someone who got a chargeback. This all simmered under the radar until recently.

In September of 2021 their bad behavior exploded in visibility when they launched a Kickstarter with a white supremacist dog-whistle in its art assets. This was noticed by Suzzane Sheldon of the Dice Tower on her Twitter. It picked up speed on BGG, and various board game media personalities tried to reach out to the designer in good faith before realizing he was unable or unwilling to take the situation seriously. During this, Jeff Bergen decided to make what appears to be a barely-veiled rape threat to Suzzane. This situation eventually lead to them being banned from BGG, expelled from GenCon and lost a few business partners, including store franchisees in St. Paul and Egan MN, Austin TX, and Denver CO.

In 2023, there was some sort of sale that lead to the company now being called Knight and Day games. Whether this new party is complicit or culpable could be debated, but the new owners appear to be saying the right things.

So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from The Gaming Goat retail stores (that have not rebranded) or their published games.
- - -
The Broken Token:

The Broken Token is not a board game publisher per se, but is instead a maker of aftermarket custom inserts used to help organize some large and complicated games.

There is no need to belabor this point: (cw: sexual assault, abuse, seriously the story behind this link is harrowing) credible allegations of sexual assault and abuse have been directed at the now-former CEO of The Broken Token. I believe he is still the owner, and only stepped down as CEO after firing 13 of his employees when TBT lost very large contracts due to this behavior.

So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from The Broken Token.
- - -
Tabletop Simulator and Berserk Games

Tabletop Simulator (TTS) is a video game allows players to manually manipulate virtual board game pieces with physics simulation. It is used to play board games remotely. Unlike many other similar products, it is also an open platform, which means anyone can create any board game they want on the platform. The downside of this is that users can add games to the client without necessarily having the approval of the publishers, essentially making it a pirating platform. However, that alone would not really justify giving it any special attention here.

In early 2022, Twitter user xoeallred described their negative experiences using global chat in TTS. After facing kicks and temporary bans for mentioning being gay, they sought an explanation as to why this was happening. After receiving no answer via email, eventually on Discord, someone with a discord role indicating they were with Berserk claimed that sharing the fact that you are gay or trans is inappropriate on TTS while implying that trans or gay identities are somehow political or fetishistic. The Twitter user in question has helpfully saved the receipts in a Google Doc with screenshots. Upon further research, this has been the excuse from Berserk going back to at least October 2018. This story is ongoing as of the time of this writing, but thus far they released a factually incorrect non-apology, then a better yet milquetoast apology, and then many days later a better apology and donation. It remains to be seen if they will salvage the situation. This is less black-and-white as compared to the above controversies, in that this appears to (at least in part) an error, but errors still cause harm, and it would be wrong to pretend that this response will be considered satisfactory to all affected.

So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy Tabletop Simulator or anything from Berserk Games.
- - -
Kingdom Death: Monster

To quote its BGG entry: "Kingdom Death: Monster is a fully cooperative tabletop hobby game experience. Set in a unique nightmarish world devoid of most natural resources, you control a settlement at the dawn of its existence. Fight monsters, craft weapons and gear, and develop your settlement to ensure your survival from generation to generation." It is notorious in that it is extremely large, expensive, complicated, punishing, and adult. It contains lots of graphic violence, gore and nudity. Such contents would obviously raise its profile in the relatively chaste board gaming space, but having a few boobs is not why it is listed here. This game is listed here because some attest the game's materials allude to and/or explicitly contain sexual violence against women.

Behind the spoiler tag are hyperlinks some :nws:

and

examples, and a description of one of the monster models. Content warning for blood, gore, violence, nudity, grotesque sexual monstrosities, sexual violence against women, women in dangerous or compromising positions, vore (yes, really). Here is an imgur gallery of some of the game's art. Additional instances are here: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 In addition, special mention should be made for the Wet Nurse, a monster of breasts and penis tentacles which includes (quoting someone who quoted the now-gone store listing in the old SA thread) "3 x accompanying suffering pregnant women that complete the tableau" in which one is specifically posed in promotional material as being violated. Here's a random blog discussing the topic with additional pictures, which contains the most damning picture that I could not find elsewhere. Additional images: 1 2 :nws:

So, why even mention it? Well, this game was quite successful and pretty popular with around 25k backers amongst two KS campaigns. Like many popular pieces of media, this game has its defenders. Remember above when I said, "sometimes people who tout extremely expensive games (>$250) are trying to convince themselves that the purchase was worth it." You can probably imagine a certain type of defensiveness that may occur when being told that your very expensive item is not worth it, like a piece of sports memorabilia. Well, there is also a certain similar response that comes from being told that that something into which you have invested a lot of time is something to be ashamed of. For KDM, we have both, and the defenders are indignant and vociferous.

At this point, it doesn't matter what the detractors or defenders would say. The discussion itself has been a problem for this thread and its previous iterations, so much so that the Trad Games moderation team has requested that KDM is not discussed in this thread. Please use the report function if anyone is discussing KDM.
- - -
Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games Space

Unless you've been living under a rock, you've inevitably heard about the nonsense surrounding Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, and NFTs. (For everyone else, for your own sake please get back under that rock! Also, do you need a roommate?) If you want to learn more, YouTube essayist Dan Olson put out a wildly popular video about the topic here. To save the space here attempting to explain all this malarkey, I will simply quote David Gerard, author of Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain. "Everything to do with cryptocurrencies and blockchains is the domain of fast-talking conmen. If anyone tries to sell you on either, kick them in the nuts and run."

Of course, if this silliness were merely a scam, few would care; fools and money are wont to part in innovative ways. However, this blatherskite actually affects all of us because crypto is terrible for the environment, using an absolutely preposterous amount of energy and possessing a huge carbon footprint. Much of the recent hot air expended about this is trying to deny how much hotter it will make the air: there are different schemes that claim to be less wasteful or neutralized with carbon offsets. However, unlike a person who takes an unavoidable plane trip who just wants to do their part, when discussing offsets while engaging in completely wasteful and totally unnecessary drivel just to financially speculate and try to become rich, it starts to sound like 16th century commercialized ~~Catholic~~ Carbon Indulgences from the Carbon Antipope of Reddit.

You might think that our meatspace world of traditional board games would be immune to this type of techbro garbo, but you would be wrong. Miniature-heavy publisher CMON, party game publisher Exploding Kittens and solo experience publisher Van Ryder have all announced plans to get into NFTs (and have not retracted those statements to my knowledge). Even the 100-year-old brand Bicycle, maker of regular old playing cards is getting in on it.

However, this is really only newsworthy because a much bigger player also got in on it: crowdfunding platform Kickstarter. Lots and lots of board game projects go through Kickstarter, with over 230 million dollars pledged in 2020. Statements made since the announcement do not inspire confidence for various reasons. The platform's adoption of the blockchain is especially galling because there are plenty of features that Kickstarter users want and need, like a better pledge manager and community controls, which remain missing to this day. And yet they somehow find the time and energy to add this hogwash. Why? It's probably the same reason every other company is getting in on this: naked avarice completely disassociated with reality.

At time of writing, Kickstarter has not walked back on their position nor have they elaborated on concrete details of any supposed benefits. Fortunately, in the months following the announcement, numerous publishers have announced plans to leave Kickstarter and go to their nascent and emboldened competitors, which include Gamefound and BackerKit. Among them are the creators of incredibly successful campaigns that raised over one million dollars, such as Unstable Unicorns, Joking Hazard, Return to Dark Tower, Spirit Island and Root. The most notable publisher to leave is Cephalofair Games, creators of Gloomhaven. They are notable because they have raised has raised over 17 million dollars through the platform, and Issac Childres explicitly called out the unilateral move to engage with blockchain tech as a reason to leave. This has no inspired penitence in the new Kickstarter CEO who does not appear to understand the real reason why people are upset.

So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't use the Kickstarter platform, don't buy games from CMON, Exploding Kittens, or Van Ryder or purchase Bicycle playing cards.
- - -
Theft and Plagiarism in Board Games:

As far as 'board game crimes' go, these are admittedly pretty minor. These will be the least important things I put in this OP. Honestly, including it alongside some truly heinous stuff feels somewhat counterproductive because the scope is so much different. However, I still believe that it's important in its own way, so I'm including it.

Sometimes, publishers copy games. Now, anyone who's been into board games for a little while know that this type of copy-cat stuff is not necessarily unusual. There are tons of tiny and un-noteworthy stolen games, and rarely a stolen prototype. Board game mechanisms are not protected under copyright law though the contained words and images are. It's important so that when something amazing like Dominion comes around, we can get other similar but different games and also games that are categorically inferior. Game innovation is a good thing, even if the game called Innovation is bad. We should not want to stifle things too much. One positive practice is attribution in your rulebook: for instance, La Granja's rulebook thanks Michael Keller, Matthias Cramer, Carl Chudyk, Stephan Feld and Uwe Rosenberg.

If you're like me and this type of stuff interests you, intellectual property disputes have a long history in board games: Khet Vs Laser Battle was a patent battle, the original Dark Tower game faced an issue regarding trade secrets and Anti-Monopoly was a long fight over trademarks. The ABA has an article about it too.

There were a few instances of this bad behavior in board gaming that I think warrant mentioning. None of these likely involve anything legally actionable, but some consumers may wish to know about this.

Sirlin Games: Speaking of Dominion rip-offs, Sirlin Games published Puzzle Strike, with a visual style that was a wholesale rip-off a fan-made Dominion remake. There's not much to talk about because it's super blatant. Donald X Vaccarino, designer of Dominion, tells a humorous story about meeting Sirlin and asking him about that guy. Also, in researching Sirlin for this topic, I discovered that there was another controversy: he allegedly ripped off a 1993 game from Reiner Knizia. The discussion from 10 years ago involves Penny Arcade of all people. I'm not familiar with the games, but a cursory look at the rules show they are quite similar. Whether this counts as inspiration or theft is admittedly blurrier in this case, but considering the other incident I would understand why people might not afford him the benefit of the doubt. In addition, in late 2022 he started issuing trademark claims / DMCA notices against some games with names similar to one of his own. It's something that people would probably not normally take much notice of except for his reputation of skirting IP laws himself and the fact that many feel it's ludicrous to have a trademark for a Japanese word which is a fighting game concept meaning 'to read your opponent.'

Bezier Games: This company's success is built off of licensing games from foreign publishers. For background, generally if you are in one market, like Japan, and you can't bring a game to market elsewhere, such as the US, a publisher local to that market will license it from you to print themselves. Bezier did that with One Night Ultimate Werewolf (originally a Japanese game called One Night Werewolf) to great success. However, when Bezier reached out to Oink Games to publish thread favorite Insider in the US, they failed to come to terms and Bezier printed a rip-off called Werewords. Sure, okay, it's capitalism and copies happen, but not really like this. If you reach out to make an agreement and fail so that you can't publish something, you don't. Otherwise, everyone would just publish games regardless of rights issues, like Glory to Rome which is un-re-printable for reasons. This is also part of why Grail Games is in trouble with The Good Doctor K. Bezier's behavior here is a clear case of a larger publisher trying to push a smaller publisher around. "If you don't license your game with terms that we consider favorable, then please consider what a shame it would be if something happened to your sales numbers if someone printed a competitor, just saying."

Mayday Games: I believe Mayday Games has been involved in several controversies in their time, but I admit am not well versed in them outside of this one. Click Clack Lumberjack (known by many other names, like Tac Tack Jack and Toc Toc Woodman) is a 2008 dexterity game designed by Justin Oh and originally published in South Korea. It was brought to the US by Mayday Games in 2011 and kickstarted a second edition in 2015. In 2021, Imperial Games was attempting to crowdfund a knock off. What's the problem? Well, it turns out that Imperial Games is a 'sister company' of Mayday Games, as admitted on the previous Kickstarter page. So, they were printing a knock off of a game to a game they had previously licensed. We don't know why, but a likely scenario would be to not have to continue to pay royalties to their former business partner. The board game world noticed immediately and the campaign was cancelled but in the end they went and published their knock off anyway without Kickstarter.

So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from Sirlin, Bezier, or Mayday Games / Sleeve Kings / Imperial Games / Swan Panasia.
- - -
There are a lot more things I want to add here eventually: Representation and the rise of Cultural and Sensitivity Consultancy, Asmodee and its anti-consumer behavior, ~~Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games space~~, General Bad Behavior, Chuds, Ableism and Accessibility, Sustainability and Ecological Concerns, ~~Thievery~~, Elevating BIPOC and Women's Voices in Gaming, and Re-Examining Tropes and Themes in Board Games. I'll do all that in my copious amounts of free time :sweatdrop:

Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 22, 2023

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:12

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

I'm hyped up for cardboard! Where do I begin?
If you're new to trad gaming in general, I suggest you keep your sights towards the lighter games to start.
If you're new to board gaming but have played hobbyist games like MTG or 40K, then you can consider stepping into the medium games if they look appealing to you.

This thread skews towards serious enthusiasts and heavier gamers, so we are including some heavy suggestions too, but if you're new, don't feel the need to dive into the deep end. Remember that lighter games are not a 'lesser' experience; they are still worth your time. Of course, I'm also not your dad, and you're welcome to start with the most complicated game in the world if you think you can manage and you will have a good time.

Where do I buy these games?
First, I'd suggest you see if you have a Friendly Local Game Store (or FLGS) in your area. Sometimes it's a comic book store, sometimes it's a miniatures game store, sometimes it's a cafe, etc. Hopefully there is one near who would appreciate your business and potentially provide a place to play and even meet other board gamers. If you don't have a game store near you or your only local stores are less than friendly, there are many specialist online retailers big and small where you can buy board games from. As mentioned earlier, board games have become mainstream enough that quality games (and also many bad games) can be purchased in person at big box stores like Target or Walmart. If no other options exist for you, just like everything else in the world, most games can be purchased online on Amazon or eBay, if that's your thing. However, keep in mind that large online platforms have been having issues with counterfeit games, so caveat emptor. Finally, a few smaller publishers mostly offer their games direct via their own website, such Button Shy Games and AllPlay (formerly Board Game Tables).

What are some thread approved online retailers?
Thread members Lawlicaust, homullus, Bottom Liner, SettingSun, JoeRules, Funzo, Llyranor, Infinitum, Kalko, KongGeorgeVII, Spiteski, mellifluous, and Morpheus all weighed in on this list (and possibly others I missed). I thank them all for the suggestions, as have little experience with online board game shopping.

Worldwide:
https://www.cardhaus.com/

North America:
https://www.gamenerdz.com/
https://www.nobleknight.com/
https://boardlandia.com/
https://tabletopmerchant.com/
https://www.boardgamebliss.com
https://store.401games.ca/
https://www.raincity.games/ (Canada only)
https://www.greatboardgames.ca/ (Canada only)

United Kingdom:
https://www.gamesquest.co.uk/
https://www.boardgameguru.co.uk/

EU:
https://www.philibertnet.com/en/

Australia / New Zealand:
https://www.gameology.com.au/
https://hobbygames.co.nz
https://gamekings.co.nz

If you have a suggestion for other regions, feel free to PM me.

Comparison shopping is a nuisance! Surely there is a 21st century solution for my busy lifestyle?
Yes indeed! To compare prices between many retailers at once, including many smaller ones, check out https://www.boardgameoracle.com/ or https://boardgameprices.co.uk/.

What are some thread approved games?
This list contains games was suggested by: Bottom Liner, golden bubble, Megasbin, Aramoro, Admiralty Flag, Dr. Video Games 0069, silvergoose, Stickman, Binary Doubts, Viper915 and myself among others who I will inevitably miss as this gets edited.

I have tried to limit this to games that are in print at time of writing, but keep in mind that this can vary by region and will change over time. This also means some thread favorites have been intentionally left off, like Inis. If you discover something here has gone out of print, feel free to PM me.

Each of these a link to the BGG page for that game. Games are divided by suggested number of players, then sorted by complexity according to BGG, lightest at the top and heaviest at the bottom. (As this list gets updated and polls change, this may not remain 100% accurate, but should remain good enough.)

Games that are sequels, standalone expansions or re-implementations are listed together on the same line.

Solo (1 Player) games
Note: Starred* games can play more than one than 1 but are suggested for 1.
Light Games
Food Chain Island
Sprawlopolis* (Co-op)
Deep Space D-6

Medium Games
Four Against Darkness
Super-Skill Pinball: 4-Cade*
Warp's Edge
Under Falling Skies

Heavy Games
Nemo's War* (Co-op)
Imperium: Classics* or Imperium: Legends*
Comancher�a: The Rise and Fall of the Comanche Empire

2 Player games
Note: Starred* games can play a different number than 2 but are suggested for 2.

Light Games
Codenames Duet (Co-op)
Onitama
The Fox in the Forest
Patchwork
Jaipur
Santorini
Azul*
Air, Land, & Sea
Battle Line

Medium Games
7 Wonders Duel
Watergate
Blue Moon Legends
Tak
Res Arcana*
Marvel Champions*
Antike Duellum
Race for the Galaxy*
BattleCON*

Heavy Games
Tash-Kalar
Spirit Island* (Co-op)
Roads and Boats*

3-5 Player games
Note: Some games here do not support each of these player counts. For instance, they may be 2-4 players. Anything that does not cover 3, 4 and 5 player sessions, I've tried to put that information here where I can. Keep in mind that some games may not be recommended at these player counts. Check the BGG listing as described above in the "Where can I get this information about player count and weight?" section for more info.

Light Games
Kingdomino (2-4 players)
For Sale
Railroad Ink
High Society
Carcassonne
The Quest for El Dorado (2-4 players)
Lost Cities Rivals (2-4 players)
Condottiere
The Crew (Co-Op) or The Crew: Mission Deep Sea (Co-op)

Medium Games
Tiny Towns
Parks
Arboretum (2-4 players)
Through the Desert
Calico (1-4 players)
Modern Art
The Estates
Irish Gauge
Pandemic (Co-op) (1-4 players) or Pandemic:Iberia (Co-op)
Broom Service
Roll for the Galaxy
Hansa Teutonica
Concordia or Concordia Venus
Orleans (2-4 players)

Heavy Games
Keyflower
Dungeon Petz (2-4 players)
Agricola or Caverna
Root (2-4 players)
Great Western Trail, 2nd Edition (1-4 players)
Caylus
Pax Pamir, 2nd Edition
A Feast for Odin (1-4 players)
Brass Birmingham (2-4 players) or Brass Lancashire (2-4 players)
Food Chain Magnate
The Gallerist (1-4 players)
Gaia Project (1-4 players)

6+ Player games

Light Games
Just One (Co-op)
Men at Work
Insider
Wavelength
Skull
A Fake Artist Goes to New York
Deep Sea Adventure
Junk Art
Codenames

Medium Games
Startups
Flamme Rogue
The Resistance: Avalon
Paper Tales
First Contact
7 Wonders, 2nd Edition

Heavy Games
Sidereal Confluence: Trading and Negotiation in the Elysian Quadrant

Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:12

Fate Accomplice: Nov 30, 2006

board games are good!

play more board games.

also: really nice OP[s], OP.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:38

Frozen Peach: Aug 25, 2004; garbage man from a garbage can

Zendo more like Zen no

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:43

PRADA SLUT: Mar 14, 2006; Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

Good games that the OP excludes because they're >$100 and/or too complex for new people:

Too Many Bones

Condense a fantasy epic into a few hours, except you're playing as something out of like an 80's Jim Henson-esque movie. All your skills are on unique dice, so you grab your clutch and throw. No pencils, no calculating a bunch of boring modifiers, and because the game is so short, all your 'earnings' are meaningful and fast.

Components are.. interesting. All your skills come from dice, completely unique to each character. All characters and enemies are represented with poker chips. Even your life is on chips stacked under you, leading to some comedy as you take damage and watch your character shrink down beside towering enemies. Your character "tableau" is a neoprene mat with holes punched in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr43RVRtv8s
A good review.

If you're lost as to what to buy, I would buy the base game, and then if you're into it, grab Undertow. From there, it's pretty open. 40 Days adds new encounter cards and enemies. Splice & Dice is a mishmash of content, including some "hard mode" bosses if you've gotten too good at beating up the base game bosses. There's a pile of characters and addons as well.

You could play this with new people who are used to D&D or similar (so long as you already know how to play).

Lisboa

Rebuild the city of Lisboa after the fire/flood/earthquake of the 1750sish, by scooting cubes. The smuggest king since Caylus.

I would describe it as the ideal representation of Euro game. Lots of small pathway decisions with a central focus of re-building the city. Components that are fancy as gently caress. Double-thick cardboard tokens, nice recessed player tableaus, slick card finishes, little wooden pieces, and small booklets as player aids. Definitely a game that impresses.

If you've got a hardcore Euro group, this is the one to play.

Rococo

Make fancy dresses for Louis XV's fancy party. Send people out to get cloth, patterns, tufts, or whatever else you need to make a fancy dress (or puffy pantaloons or whatever it is the men wear). Put your fancy dresses somewhere in the party house and watch the game board fill up as people fight to have the most fancy dresses in the different party rooms.

Like Lisboa (same publisher), absolutely baller components:

Wanna make a dress with those tufts. Metal coins if you want them.

Not very hard to play, could pull this one off with new people who have played most any other modern games.

Anachrony

Escape your people from a big bad planetary meteor crash by going forward in time and getting things from your future self, but then repaying it later (or not, I suppose) before a singularity eats your things. Make other players upset when you leave them behind and fly away before impact. Build weird buildings inside your district to prepare for escape, or send your people to planet surface in a Gundam to Get Stuff, but those things aren't cheap to power up.

See forward in time to know what technology you'll develop next turn, just in case you want to grab the resources for it. Or, if you miss out, I suppose you can always build an engine to send yourself back to a previous turn and build the project then, materializing it in your present existence. Pay back those "borrowed" resources while you're at it.

Can also get ~fancy paintable robots~ that your people sit in, if you really want them. New print runs of this game split out the content into a few different boxes to change the pricing around.

Other cheap and/or good games for new people:

Flamme Rouge

Old-timey bicycle race. Vroom your riders around different tracks to finish first. Start with a fresh deck of high-movement cards, and slowly lose them as you play them each turn. Pace your riders to the end -- pulling too far ahead gives you low-value exhaustion cards, but sticking close to the pack might give you some free movement as you slipstream in another riders wake, waiting for the opportunity to sprint ahead. Or, get clogged up behind in a comical pile as people suck wind going up the final hills.

Short and easy to play.

The Quacks of Quedlinburg

Make the best potion for the fair by chucking in ingredients at random from your bag. Each ingredient gives you a bonus and makes your potion even more impressive, but go too far and the entire thing explodes in your face. Did I mention you can't ever look at the ingredients in your bag? How many of those moths did you buy again?

This is a good party game / family game / light-ish game and good "skill equalizer", since most of the game revolves around how much risk you're willing to take on as you keep reaching into that bag. Note that there are some swings of good/bad luck, so don't play this one with a group of whiners who will get butt-hurt about how "fair/unfair" a game about making wizard potions might be.

The two Expansions are Herb Witches and Alchemists. Herb Witches adds some new ingredients and some "once-per-game" witch stalls to grand you a special ability (maybe you need to unexplode that pot?), Alchemists adds some interesting asymmetry as you pick an "ailment" you like to cure, granting you some extra buying power, a more stable pot, or maybe just supercharging your ingredients?

If you're cheap, you can also buy coin capsules (like what coin collectors use) to put your ingredients in. If you're not cheap, you can get a set of fancy plastic ingredients that make huge shaking sounds when you dig through your sack, and also cost as much as the game.

PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 6, 2022

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:48

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

I wouldn't suggest Marvel Champions at 2. I think it plays better with 3 and even better with 4.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:50

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

PRADA SLUT posted:

Can we add like one sentence descriptions to the games, since just a name is unhelpful as gently caress

They're all links to good descriptions of the game on BGG, which is even more helpful!

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:50

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

That is an impressive OP.

Additionally:

(1) Never sit down to play a modern board game and expect to open the box and learn to play as you go, or with one unlucky person attempting to explain as they read. If nothing else, everyone should watch a "how to play video" together. Really, don't do it, it's awful.
(2) It's dreadful playing games with people who don't want to play them -- no gaming is better than bad gaming. If your friends aren't even curious about your new hobby, pressuring them into playing often backfires.
(3) If somebody in your life is really curious about a game you play, that is often enough to carry them through the complexity barrier and into learning and enjoying the game.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:52

PRADA SLUT: Mar 14, 2006; Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

silvergoose posted:

They're all links to good descriptions of the game on BGG, which is even more helpful!

Just put like �Flamme Rouge - Race bicycles around a track�. If they want more details they can click through to the BGG page.

Unless you�re suggesting someone click through 40 games with no helpful context to a massive synopsis of each one.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:52

Suddenly Susan: Oct 21, 2003

New thread woohoo! Has anyone had a chance to try out all the amazing looking games and expansions Capstone has/is about to be releasing?

Ark Nova
Boonlake
Maracaibo: The Uprising
Pipeline: Emerging Markets
Corrosion

I listened to the Game Brain episode where they covered some of them, but am looking for more opinions/experiences. Also, Would be great to include that podcast as a recommended listening in the OP.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:54

Fate Accomplice: Nov 30, 2006

homullus posted:

(1) Never sit down to play a modern board game and expect to open the box and learn to play as you go, or with one unlucky person attempting to explain as they read. If nothing else, everyone should watch a "how to play video" together. Really, don't do it, it's awful.

this was my fault ONE TIME in ~2010, some coworkers and I cracked open a fresh copy of Chaos in the Old World and I began reading the rules out loud.

it remains a painful memory, and I have gotten up from a table with zero regret when I've sensed no one knew what was going on and a group learn formed.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 00:54

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

thread needs more Zendo content

whenever Zendo discussion is not here, all the other posters should be asking "Where's Zendo?"

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:01

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

the holy poopacy posted:

thread needs more Zendo content

whenever Zendo discussion is not here, all the other posters should be asking "Where's Zendo?"

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:04

Back Alley Borks: Oct 22, 2017; Awoo.

Excited to punch out the chits on this new thread.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:18

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

PRADA SLUT posted:

unhelpful as gently caress

This is rich coming from you.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:23

Shes Not Impressed: Apr 25, 2004

Really great OP.

I gifted Calico to my partner for Xmas and it's the first time in a long time that I've had analysis paralysis even trying to start the solo beginner mode.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:27

Jarvisi: Apr 17, 2001; Green is still best.

Does anyone even like board games?

Anyway, here's the update on the last 50 Kickstarter games I backed

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:30

Old Dun Cow: Sep 5, 2006

I was gifted 7 Wonders Architects for Christmas so my group gave it a go last night. It ended up being a big hit! Everyone felt it was a solid mix of strategy, interactiveness and luck, while not overstaying its welcome. We ended up banging out three in a row, then an Oriflamme, a 6 Nimmt and then back to Architects. We have 50-50 casuals and seasoned gamer types, so it felt like there was a lot of crossover appeal. It also just plain looks fun.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 01:50

FirstAidKite: Nov 8, 2009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCy3hHCGpjA

Where's my Mall Madness reboot

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:08

JoeRules: Jul 11, 2001

Excellent work OP!

Just a few thoughts for any new folks reading through - I would add Cascadia (1-4p) and Botanik (2p) to the list for lighter fare - two tile laying games that I'm virtually always willing to play.

Beyond that, Flamme Rouge is marked as a 6p game but needs the Peloton expansion to play with 6 - the base game is 3-4p. PARKS is listed under 2p, but I think 2p might be the least interesting way to play it. I still often do play it at 2p, but it's 2-5p with a nice sweet spot at 3p.

JoeRules fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 30, 2021

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:11

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Trash OP seems to suggest most people hate Zendo.

it�s really good actually. The OP that is. And Zendo.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:15

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

More like bored games

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:19

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

We need someone to post all the old memes like fukken cubes

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:22

manero: Jan 30, 2006

Tekopo posted:

We need someone to post all the old memes like fukken cubes

I got u fam

Hello, 2022 board games thread!

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:25

Acolyte!: Aug 6, 2001; Go! Rocket Kiwi! Go!

homullus posted:

If nothing else, everyone should watch a "how to play video" together.

I have seen this attempted before (with a Watch it Played video, no less) and there was zero retention. It was very bad. A giant waste of time.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:27

CodfishCartographer: Feb 23, 2010; Gadus Maprocephalus; Pillbug

Welp, I moved to Las Vegas earlier this year and hadn't heard any of the news about The Gaming Goat until reading this new OP. Ooooooof glad I haven't actually bought anything there yet.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:29

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Thanks for the new thread! For a new year!

I will be covering Ark Nova, Bitoku, Squaring Circleville, Maracaibo the Uprising and Golem in the weeks ahead on my channel Mayveena https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXE8oeqRvAghCVHinyERXNw

I'm too cheap to buy real lighting for my videos so I have to wait until the sun shows up (I do add a little lighting as well). So Ark Nova will be covered probably in 10 days or so as I also have to wait for my editor to edit.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:29

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Acolyte! posted:

I have seen this attempted before (with a Watch it Played video, no less) and there was zero retention. It was very bad. A giant waste of time.

Yeah I watch them by myself and then translate so to speak.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:30

djfooboo: Oct 16, 2004

Wow! Wish I had this OP when I started 20 years ago :grandpa:

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:31

alkanphel: Mar 24, 2004

Nice new thread for the new year! I just played Nicaea and it was pretty good and sharp.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:49

Slimy Hog: Apr 22, 2008

alkanphel posted:

Nice new thread for the new year! I just played Nicaea and it was pretty good and sharp.

I wish my game group expanded beyond my wife and myself so I could justify Nicaea.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:53

Radioactive Toy: Sep 14, 2005; Nothing has ever happened here, nothing.

Great OP.

Is there a recommendation between Concordia and Concordia Venus? How do they play at 2?

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:54

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

PRADA SLUT posted:

Can we add like one sentence descriptions to the games

This is a good suggestion, maybe you can give it a go for a few, if several people write like 5 each, they'd all be written up pretty quickly.

quote:

, since just a name is unhelpful as gently caress

Just a name with a link to a BGG description is better than "unhelpful as gently caress", it's just possibly not as good as it could be, although length of the post is also a thing to consider. Could you be less abrasive to everyone around you?

# ? Dec 30, 2021 02:58

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Radioactive Toy posted:

Great OP.

Is there a recommendation between Concordia and Concordia Venus? How do they play at 2?

Unless there's a significant price difference the standalone version of Venus is the better buy. Even if you don't care about team play you get a broader range of maps (including a better 2P option than the base game) and some optional alternate mechanics

I think it needs 3+ to truly shine but I've played it a lot at 2P and would happily play a lot more.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 03:35

armorer: Aug 6, 2012; I like metal.

Excellent OP, now I want to buy Zendo. Is the Looney Labs version that's currently available good? Or do I want one of the older ones if I can find it?

# ? Dec 30, 2021 03:39

CommonShore: Jun 6, 2014; A true renaissance man

Terrible OP for one reason: Trains are the most important kind of game. If 18xx is too much start with cube rails :eng101:

good op

# ? Dec 30, 2021 03:56

CodfishCartographer: Feb 23, 2010; Gadus Maprocephalus; Pillbug

Tragedy Looper may be my favorite game so Zendo sounds up my alley. Any other similar games that scratch that same sort of itch?

# ? Dec 30, 2021 04:06

armorer: Aug 6, 2012; I like metal.

CodfishCartographer posted:

Tragedy Looper may be my favorite game so Zendo sounds up my alley. Any other similar games that scratch that same sort of itch?

I've not played Tragedy Looper, but Zendo seems to share a certain logic puzzle element with The Shipwreck Arcana, which I have and enjoy.

# ? Dec 30, 2021 04:09

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:27

Llyranor: Jun 24, 2013

Radioactive Toy posted:

Great OP.

Is there a recommendation between Concordia and Concordia Venus? How do they play at 2?

Even if you don't care about teamplay, if 3-5p in your future, Concordia Venus (the standalone) version is the better deal. Comes with 4 maps (and one of them also as a smaller version for lower player count) instead of the base game's 2 (well, 1 of the maps overlaps).

If you ONLY play 2p, I'd recommend getting whichever is cheapest (probably base game) + either Corsica or Creta (or both) which are better for 2p (the bigger maps are too loose, but that depends on personal taste too).

# ? Dec 30, 2021 04:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

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