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Cojawfee posted:That could be true. Also, some of the less flattering characterization from BoB was from the people themselves mischaracterizing other people who weren't able to speak for themselves. For instance, Lt. Dike. He was portrayed as being an incompetent buffoon despite having performed several heroic acts that they didn't tell us about. The show has him breaking under pressure and being unable to command the attack on Foy when, in reality, he had a shoulder wound and was messed up from that. Plus you had people like Winters and Lipton who seemed to just not like him, so they didn't care if they got the facts right. They hosed up Blithe too
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Jan 28, 2024 04:42
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All this could be easily avoided by just fictionalizing the name of the units and soldiers and saying 'inspired by' or whatever, it might not be 100% accurate but the nerds can go read the book if they're interested and it opens the door to better drama and prevents slandering dudes who had the balls to go into war
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Jan 28, 2024 10:23
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Was going to basically repeat Jerusalem's post - love the little techy details like the nozzle for the flaregun. Would have loved to have seen how that punch worked a bit more clearly than he's at the guy's side and now he's down, but whatever. I don't understand what we're meant to think about Crosby, has he crossed the line? Are they covering for him or is he good enough despite the vom? Is being made Group Navigator a promotion or are they gently getting him out of the way? Guess we'll see going foward.
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Jan 28, 2024 12:03
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Yeah having one of the main characters (who’s also the narrator) seem incompetent and a danger to his crew is a weird way to start off.
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Jan 28, 2024 14:10
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Eau de MacGowan posted:All this could be easily avoided by just fictionalizing the name of the units and soldiers and saying 'inspired by' or whatever, it might not be 100% accurate but the nerds can go read the book if they're interested and it opens the door to better drama and prevents slandering dudes who had the balls to go into war Sometimes the books themselves are wrong, though. There is a lot of sloppy research and even big chunks of plagiarism across Ambrose's work. Band of Brothers, Citizen Soldiers, and D-Day are remarkable just for the number of interviews Ambrose was able to get with WWII vets, but their memories are often wrong or biased. But you're right -- in the end, the shows are dramas and not documentaries. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 17:10
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I don't think apple's playing it safe just for the sake of preserving people's memory. The Pacific pretty much portrayed all its main characters in a very positive light. But they still had "problematic" traits or things that would be controversial as part of their traits. Leckie is insubordinate and with his friends steals some comfort items from the army. Some are bloodthirsty wanting to kill "japs." In BoB, Guarnere is showing as a bit of an insubordinate jerk to Winters until Winters wins his respect. You don't have to make someone out to be a Sobel/LT Dike/ Pvt Peck to give them some flavor beyond "perfectly galant, perfectly disciplined, perfectly charismatic."
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Jan 28, 2024 17:19
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🎵 Masters of the Air, Droppers of the Bombs 🎵
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Jan 29, 2024 04:37
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I can’t help but see that Bucky looking like conner o'malley and it’s super distracting
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Jan 29, 2024 06:06
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I think I was being a little too harsh in my earlier review. I just got back from re-watching the first episode, plus episode two for the first time, with my 90 year old RCAF veteran grandpa who served an anti-submarine patrol role over the Atlantic in the 1950s aboard the CP-107 Argus. Not five minutes into the first episode and it hit him hard. My grandpa served six months at the exact same airfield they showed the B17s landing at: Bluie West One. He was sort of at a loss for words, it was just like being back there. When the one B17 called off its landing and decided to go around, he basically said "Oh that's a terrible idea," I guess on account of how they had to fly in surrounded by mountains and there isn't a lot of safe airspace around the base to do that. He said that the one end of the runway is at about sea level, and the other end is at about 120' of elevation, and that the idea is to land on the incline and take off on the down slope. However, that's not always the case, and one time when he left, for some reason they had to take off uphill, in a C-54, and as he was explaining this I could see he was pulling it deep from memory, that he wasn't sure if they were going to make it into the air, not only on account of having to take off uphill, but because "The C54 was the most miserable goddamn airplane ever built." So it's got his approval, and if it's got his approval then I guess I can overlook the cheesy CGI here and there. XYZAB fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 06:34
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Grandpa probably doesn't have the pedantic eye that the average goon does to nitpick every single detail of special effects.
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Jan 29, 2024 06:51
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He did say that he noticed some “fooey” in some parts, but when I asked him to elaborate, he went off on a tangent about how he and his friends used to throw rocks on the roof of his officer’s quarters, which were those semi-circular corrugated metal things so it’d make a hell of a racket, and the officers used to come running after them screaming at them to gently caress off as he ran as fast as he could. I don’t know if this was in Greenland or if he was remembering this from somewhere else he was stationed. He tells me this and starts laughing hysterically, all the while my grandma is right beside him, giving him the meanest stink eye. They’ve been married 64 years and met in the air force. She was a signals officer and still can’t tell us exactly what she did on account of it being classified or something. All we know is she intercepted radio signals from Russia. Edit: He mentioned that he was confused about how the navigator in the show was doing his job. As he was familiar with it, navigating required the use of “sun-spotting” and something that I got the gist must have been like a sextant, which they didn’t show in the show. It was just a lot of looking at a map. And then he got real stern and said “Those damned Americans were always getting lost, we’d have to station Canadian navigators with them to get them where they needed to go.” Mind you he was more or less in a crew chief position doing repairs and mechanical work as far as I understand, so I don’t know exactly where he’s getting this navigation knowledge from. XYZAB fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 07:19
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I do appreciate that the show is giving some minor spotlight to the rest of the support crews involved on base.
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Jan 29, 2024 07:35
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George H.W. oval office posted:I do appreciate that the show is giving some minor spotlight to the rest of the support crews involved on base. I thought that one crew chief was going to set those kids on fire by accident what with the fast and loose gasoline pouring and little girl wearing what looked like a burlap sack.
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Jan 29, 2024 07:49
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Remembering the movie or show where a parachute comes down in the village and the wellbeing of the guy is just about as important as the scramble to salvage the silk
Chubby Henparty fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 08:10
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World War II was nothing more than a silk transfer from the US to France and Holland.
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Jan 29, 2024 08:12
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XYZAB posted:He did say that he noticed some “fooey” in some parts, but when I asked him to elaborate, he went off on a tangent about how he and his friends used to throw rocks on the roof of his officer’s quarters, which were those semi-circular corrugated metal things so it’d make a hell of a racket, and the officers used to come running after them screaming at them to gently caress off as he ran as fast as he could. I don’t know if this was in Greenland or if he was remembering this from somewhere else he was stationed. He tells me this and starts laughing hysterically, all the while my grandma is right beside him, giving him the meanest stink eye. They’ve been married 64 years and met in the air force. She was a signals officer and still can’t tell us exactly what she did on account of it being classified or something. All we know is she intercepted radio signals from Russia. Haha, your grandpa (and grandma!) rule.
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Jan 29, 2024 08:21
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XYZAB posted:I thought that one crew chief was going to set those kids on fire by accident what with the fast and loose gasoline pouring and little girl wearing what looked like a burlap sack. this would be a significant twist for a spielberg product
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Jan 29, 2024 09:40
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George H.W. oval office posted:I can’t help but see that Bucky looking like conner o'malley and it’s super distracting ha my brother I said the same in the AppleTV thread Flux Wildly posted:I can’t unsee Bucky as a young Connor O’Malley and it’s really throwing me off
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Jan 29, 2024 11:40
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XYZAB posted:I thought that one crew chief was going to set those kids on fire by accident what with the fast and loose gasoline pouring and little girl wearing what looked like a burlap sack. As was the style at the time.
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Jan 29, 2024 11:52
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Cojawfee posted:World War II was nothing more than a silk transfer from the US to France and Holland. My Dutch grandparents got married in 1944 or 45, and her wedding dress was from paratrooper silk
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Jan 29, 2024 13:34
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Chubby Henparty posted:Remembering the movie or show where a parachute comes down in the village and the wellbeing of the guy is just about as important as the scramble to salvage the silk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEhBnl16zAQ Thanks awfully, old chap.
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Jan 29, 2024 14:25
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Chubby Henparty posted:Remembering the movie or show where a parachute comes down in the village and the wellbeing of the guy is just about as important as the scramble to salvage the silk Actually, in this instance I believe the guy is a German but all the women in the village come out of the woodwork to harvest the parachute silk before the Home Guard comes and scare the poo poo out of him because they all have knives and scissors. I unfortunately can't remember the title of the movie either. 
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Jan 29, 2024 16:55
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XYZAB posted:I thought that one crew chief was going to set those kids on fire by accident what with the fast and loose gasoline pouring and little girl wearing what looked like a burlap sack. Your expectations for this miniseries are wild.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:56
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War is hell.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:14
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I just re-watched Band of Brothers, it is even better than I remembered, but man there are a lot of characters in it. I can probably put names to five faces or so. I am happy if Masters of the Air focuses on a smaller group of characters.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:49
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Oasx posted:I just re-watched Band of Brothers, it is even better than I remembered, but man there are a lot of characters in it. I can probably put names to five faces or so. Well, hold that thought, because it's evident from the opening credits that we're going to have a whole raft of fighter squadron characters come in at some point.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:30
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There'll be a Black Thursday Raid episode that will act as the catalyst for the "hey we need fighter coverage for the entire run" mindset.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:46
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Chubby Henparty posted:Remembering the movie or show where a parachute comes down in the village and the wellbeing of the guy is just about as important as the scramble to salvage the silk The Parachute Ball (Short 2012). It’s a short movie with two Germans landing into a farm house with two old gals who want to go to a dance. One is a good nazi, one is a bad nazi, they fight, and the ladies thank the good nazi and make their dresses out of the silk in it. It’s a good little short story, can recommend.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:45
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That was good, but I don't think the one people are thinking of - could be Foyle's War or older uk tv. (Its actually going to end up being a scene from Top Secret! where ravenous locals strip the parachute, clothes and very skin from the poor 'trooper)
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Jan 29, 2024 21:12
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blue squares posted:My Dutch grandparents got married in 1944 or 45, and her wedding dress was from paratrooper silk "Gonna send it home to Bonnie." (quoted from memory, likely wrong)
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Jan 29, 2024 22:46
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Actually, in this instance I believe the guy is a German but all the women in the village come out of the woodwork to harvest the parachute silk before the Home Guard comes and scare the poo poo out of him because they all have knives and scissors. Hope and Glory?
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Jan 30, 2024 02:07
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All along OP was thinking of the scene from Battle of Britain (1969) when a Polish pilot is shot down, and greeted with pitchforks when he says in heavily-accented English, “Good Afternoon!” And old boy is like “Good Afternoon my rear end! Get yer hands up!” whilst people in the background gather up his parachute silk.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:11
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Repeat, please.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:34
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I pointed out to my grandpa that these are all F model planes or earlier, which made me realize that I wasn't at all sure when the G model started making its way over. I'm curious if we're going to see an episode dedicated to the arrival of G models, or if they're just going to sort of filter in planes with the chin turret and not say anything about it. Bonus points if they find a reason to bring YB-40's into the plot that had their bomb bays converted to ammo magazines and got deployed as defensive gunships. Though that was the 327th and they weren't stationed at Thorpe Abbots so I can't really see a reason for it aside from drawing a connection explaining how it was the YB-40's chin turret that migrated over to the G models. Will they explain it? Won't they? What other WWII airplane nerd poo poo are they going to throw into this that only like three people are going to care about? We saw the Tuskegee Airmen in some of the trailers. Me-163s? 262s? A sky blackened with so many Ho-229s that it makes us all throw our hands up in disgust and cancel our Apple+ subscriptions moments later? Oh, on that note, can anybody tell me what the yellow string is seen hanging from the forward fuselage of the plane in several shots? In a couple of the earlier scenes I thought it was laminar flow oil leaking from somewhere, but it definitely isn't. Example: 
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Jan 30, 2024 02:53
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I can't find anything that would have a reason for a drain hole to be aft of the DF loop, or any emergancy rope. Could be a pull cord maybe for the forward hatch. Never seen one before.quote:We saw the Tuskegee Airmen in some of the trailers We know they didn't get their mustangs until june 1944, and all the long range escorts they did were with the 15th out of Italy. So who knows they fit in, they very much weren't welcome in the 8th or England. Stegosnaurlax fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 03:27
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Phenotype posted:This started out really solid I think. The air combat looks really good! I did not realize the belly gunner had to get locked into that tiny little ball under the plane. I cannot imagine being stuck in that little thing and coming under machine gun fire, holy poo poo. "The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner" Randall Jarrell - 1945 From my mother's sleep I fell into the State, And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze. Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life, I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters. When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.
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Jan 30, 2024 05:53
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"The bombers will always get through!" they screamed.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:32
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MrMojok posted:And old boy is like “Good Afternoon my rear end! Get yer hands up!” whilst people in the background gather up his parachute silk. Nah, the stout farmers don't even look at it there, too busy trying to stop polish immigration.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:36
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XYZAB posted:Oh, on that note, can anybody tell me what the yellow string is seen hanging from the forward fuselage of the plane in several shots? In a couple of the earlier scenes I thought it was laminar flow oil leaking from somewhere, but it definitely isn't. I went through and looked for it and at first I thought it might be some kind of grounding cable but it can't be because it doesn't go all the way to the ground. Then I think I found the answer: A whole bunch of photos of B-17s on display at airshows have a cord hanging from the nose in roughly the same place and wrapped around the handle for the nose hatch, presumably to keep it from being closed. I don't see it on wartime photos of B-17s though.
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Jan 30, 2024 17:20
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After the first episode I feel like they rushed through way too much to get to the action. So much was copied from Band of Brothers but not the important stuff like the rapport between the leads or the time spent establishing stakes in training. All the exposition is obvious, characters seem stereotypical at best and the voiceovers are uninteresting. After rewatching Band of Brothers recently I felt like you could remove almost all of the battle scenes and still have an incredible show. The first and last 2 episodes of that series had no action at all and are probably my favorites. This one feels like if you removed the battle scenes you'd have a whole lot of nothing. I thought the CGI was pretty lousy, too.
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Jan 30, 2024 18:53
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