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Eau de MacGowan posted:weren't nazi rations basically meth + crackers You are mistaking german rations with Oklahoma
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Mar 21, 2024 06:30
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Stegosnaurlax posted:You are mistaking german rations with Oklahoma We're you sitting on your bayonet??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Pdob5J3Yo
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Mar 21, 2024 06:35
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According to the internet, Germans got canned meat that was either pork, beef, turkey or chicken, and hard bread.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:01
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Arc Hammer posted:We're you sitting on your bayonet??? loving michael fassbender was in band of brothers?
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Mar 21, 2024 08:09
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The joke is that everyone had some sort of cameo in BoB. Simon Pegg, Jimmy Fallon, Tom Hardy...
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Mar 21, 2024 08:18
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joepinetree posted:But the statement that started this whole thing wasn't "who'd win in a war," "who'd win ww3" or "how important was lend lease." A goon complained that they made Rosie land in the middle of rando russian soldiers walking around and shooting people because the red army was actually a massive and efficient force at that point, certainly the most efficient one. And said goon is right. Is that goon right? This is Masters of the Air. The sole image we saw of the American army was a bunch of tanks throwing high explosives at a camp full of their own guys. What, exactly, could Rosie have seen that shows the fearsome strategy of the Red Army? He is a single guy who landed in a single field and saw some guys running around shooting. He was shell shocked and exhausted and basically collapsed in a shell hole until some troops stumbled on him. Even in the largest battles of the war the actual experience of most participants is limited to a bunch of smoky confusion in their limited visual and auditory range. Was he supposed to walk into a tent where Zhukov is planning a major offensive on a big map and nod knowingly at the masterful Stavka strategy? Were we supposed to get treated to an image of hundreds of tanks packed with infantry riders thundering across a field while Katyushas fire overhead? The show didn't bother spending the cash to make air battles, they aren't going to blow their wad on a high budget recreation of the battle of Seelow Heights. I think the show is dumb too but this is such an odd complaint. Why didn't the budget-struggling bomber TV show give us a massively expensive scene to illustrate the prowess of the Red Army? Hmm, I wonder. Must be American jingoism! I think showing yet more stuff not related to the bombers is a mistake, but by Episode 9 I was so checked out of this show that I would have welcomed some gratuitous tank battles so in a way I agree with you there. Also the idea that the Red Army was the most 'efficient' is a laughable one, at least for the way I define efficiency. To me efficient doesn't involve wasting your own human lives so casually as to lose 350,000 men taking Berlin, but maybe that's just me. I would absolutely adore some big budget Eastern Front show but I feel like it is never gonna happen. Russian movies tend to be of even more unrealistic jingoistic Ra-ra-ra flavor than even Hollywood stuff. The burning Soviet soldiers charging German lines in their Stalingrad movie is kind of the perfectly dumb Russian counterpoint to the stupid scene from Enemy at the Gates, as a goon showed with posted clips earlier. So this is productive: If anyone is looking for some decent Eastern Front action without too much Hollywood dumbassery, the Finnish movie Unknown Soldier from a few years back is worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Soldier_(2017_film) Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Mar 21, 2024 |
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Mar 21, 2024 09:58
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Jehde posted:The joke is that everyone had some sort of cameo in BoB. Simon Pegg, Jimmy Fallon, Tom Hardy... Stephen Graham, Dexter Fletcher, Andrew Scott, James McAvoy, Donnie Wahlberg, Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks twice...
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Mar 21, 2024 13:15
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Is that goon right? Jesus Christ this is getting really loving stupid. "The way I define efficiency..." get over yourself. Like, the complaint was an easy and obvious one. If they didn't want to show a massive battle east of the oder, they could have just portrayed what actually happened in the real world, where he landed behind Russian lines after the Russians reached the Oder, instead of in no man's land before. But I guess we now know who appreciates the after school special vibes of eastern front/concentration camps tour the show went for. No need for another multiparagraph essay on how actually the jingoism of the show is totally true, im done with this. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 21, 2024 |
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Mar 21, 2024 14:57
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Did any of you watch/listen to the hour by hour play of the World War Two channel's D-Day special? I would unironically love to see a sort of Longest Day 10 episode series of JUST that day. Focused as gently caress. My main complaint of MotA is that it was too unfocused, especially in the 2nd half.
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Mar 21, 2024 15:11
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Burns posted:Did any of you watch/listen to the hour by hour play of the World War Two channel's D-Day special? I would unironically love to see a sort of Longest Day 10 episode series of JUST that day. Focused as gently caress. You could shoot the whole first episode first-person PoV of a British glider troop to really drive home how batshit the entire plan was.
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Mar 21, 2024 17:28
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Idk, I think there’d way too much emphasis on the 6th and then the whole rest of the campaign gets left. There’s hardly anything from the later parts like Cobra let alone the Falaise Pocket
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Mar 21, 2024 20:21
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Arc Hammer posted:Stephen Graham, Dexter Fletcher, Andrew Scott, James McAvoy, Donnie Wahlberg, Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks twice... I never believed the second cameo to be him but I'm no Tom Hanks expert. Edit the first being the paratrooper in Crossroads, second being the French soldier who shoots the German prisoners?
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Mar 22, 2024 03:10
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The french soldier looks nothing like Tom Hanks. I doubt he would have given himself such an up front cameo like that.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:23
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algebra testes posted:I never believed the second cameo to be him but I'm no Tom Hanks expert. He also has a voiceover cameo as the one prisoner they left behind in The Last Patrol.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:28
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Burns posted:Did any of you watch/listen to the hour by hour play of the World War Two channel's D-Day special? I would unironically love to see a sort of Longest Day 10 episode series of JUST that day. Focused as gently caress. WW2 Week by Week did a bang-up job on D-Day. Strap in for 24 hours of coverage, 12:01am on the 6th to 12:00pm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0AKc7xxQQk
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Mar 22, 2024 06:34
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I would absolutely adore some big budget Eastern Front show but I feel like it is never gonna happen. Russian movies tend to be of even more unrealistic jingoistic Ra-ra-ra flavor than even Hollywood stuff. The burning Soviet soldiers charging German lines in their Stalingrad movie is kind of the perfectly dumb Russian counterpoint to the stupid scene from Enemy at the Gates, as a goon showed with posted clips earlier. I was wondering about this and it's true that American and other "western" WW2 movies seem to be different. But what if a battle like Stalingrad had happened deep in the United States with nothing but devastation behind it? Just a thought. This series was OK. Can't help but agree that Band of Brothers was the best of the bunch because the source material was a tight group of, well, brothers. I think that's it. For their next project they shouldn't try to find some other theatre of operation but another real band of brothers.
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Mar 22, 2024 10:00
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joepinetree posted:Jesus Christ this is getting really loving stupid. "The way I define efficiency..." get over yourself. Sorry you're mad that people aren't agreeing that Russia was "by far the most organized and effective Army in the world" because, despite trying to move the goalposts, that was the original claim. Maybe don't want watch American produced shows about American units if you're so offended by failure to capture the glory of the Red Army?
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Mar 22, 2024 11:39
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Maybe have a more productive discussion. Was it good or bad when the Masters of the Air dropped the a-bombs?
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Mar 22, 2024 14:55
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Why do they always make the Germans be the bad guys? What a lazy trope.
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Mar 22, 2024 18:17
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Crossroads, the 5th episode of Band of Brothers, is interesting for a lot of reasons even if of all the episodes I've rewatched so far it is the "weakest" (i.e, still really loving good). The title refers to a crossroads where Winters leads a battle to prevent the Germans from an effort to regain ground lost during the otherwise disaster for the Allies that was Operation Market Garden. But it also leads up to Easy's orders to go to Bastogne, which sits at the center of multiple roads which could allow the Germans to split the British and American forces and be able to spread out further into Europe again. It marks a turning point for Easy Company, losing Winters as commander, putting them directly on the ground in battle as opposed to being airdropped in. It shows the growing weight on the men of the things they've seen and done, with the adrenaline and moment-to-moment excitement of battle fading as they spend more time training and drilling and have time to actually think. It's also an episode edited differently to most, standing somewhat apart with its use of transitions, sound bridges, parallels and flashbacks to drive home it's point. The central storyline is around Winters struggling through the aftermath of an assault that saw him kill, among many others, a young German soldier. Promoted to Battalion Executive Officer, Winters struggles with the admin work that Colonel Sink promised him he wouldn't need to worry about doing, including an After Action Report of the attack that saw him and Easy unknowingly facing off with two companies of SS troops that held a superior position. Winters is given the main focus, but there's a constant repeat of the strain that the other soldiers are feeling: Nixon in particular is clearly starting to unravel, drinking even more heavily than before, losing what little sense of discipline he had (which leads to a hilarious scene where Winters wakes him up by tossing what he thinks is leftover beer on him which turns out to be Nixon's own piss). But men are being sent on leave, attending weddings or functions, every attempt is being made to give them some kind of break because people can only be pushed too far. In a particularly pointed moment, Guarnere returns after going AWOL from hospital to keep fighting, and while he's greeted warmly by Winters, Nixon et al, he quickly realizes that they're already moving on past his welcome because there simply isn't time to celebrate and shoot the poo poo. This stands in direct contrast to the hero's welcome that Popeye got in the previous episode, because at this point everybody is just too worn down and busy to offer more than the briefest celebratory moment before having to move on. What really struck me this time around though was that Winters' prominence around his struggles to keep things together means that it isn't till extremely late in the episode that we see that Buck Compton - up till this point an utter rock - is on the verge of a complete collapse that none of the other soldiers appear to have noticed until Winters tries to chat to him during a movie and gets a belated sense of how brittle he has become. That Buck is then sent immediately to Bastogne is a bad sign, and this is the other crossroads the show and Easy has reached, as the officers who have mostly done a good job of leading are either dead, falling apart or promoted out of direct action. At first things look okay, with Moose Heyliger appearing to be a strong replacement for Winters who successfully leads Easy in their part of Operation Pegasus to retrieve 140 British "Red Devils" who survived on the axis side after Operation Market Garden. But then he's shot by a jittery private on guard duty who panicks when he sees Winters and Heyliger walking in the dark, and replaced by Lieutenant Dike. This all sets the scene for the back half of the season and the next two episodes featuring the Battle of the Bulge, with Easy at only 65% fighting strength, most of whom are replacements, with NCOs at their own breaking points while holding everything together. Dike, like Blithe and Sobel, was apparently not given a particularly fair representation in the show based on the actual real life person, but just from the television show perspective we're given indications that the character at least is not somebody who inspires confidence or loyalty. He delegates commands for his own personal comfort, he's concerned with drilling to a degree that brings to mind Sobel, he appears to miss basic preparation ideas that he should come up with on his own initiative - when Winters lays out calmly and quickly all the things he SHOULD have done by this point, Dike is clearly completely caught off-guard. While Market Garden was a disaster, the final shots of the episode give us our first look at a large number of American troops not only defeated but DEFEATED: like walking dead, they shuffle in lines in a complete daze past the bewildered Easy men, shell-shocked by the sudden arrival of the Germans who completely overwhelmed them. This may be the weakest episode of the series to date, but it's still very good. What carries it, and what sets Band of Brothers so clearly apart from Masters of the Air, is that we get so much time to build up the characters and relationships and they do a ton of heavy lifting, and they make the arrival of new characters work by how they impact and relate to characters we already know and care about well.
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Mar 23, 2024 03:45
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It's weird to think about a "weakest" BoB episode because they're all so good in their own ways. The different directors, writers, and character focus of each episode is so entirely on point. It almost feels like an anthology of mini WW2 movies, but it's all connected chronologically to easy company, the band of brothers. Jehde fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 03:52
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Yeah, I had to keep putting in the qualifier because it's only "weak" in comparison to the other episodes, and it's still an exceptionally good episode of television.
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Mar 23, 2024 04:03
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You have one round. You drop a prisoner, the rest will jump you, got it?
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Mar 23, 2024 04:12
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Damian Lewis and Ron Livingston Buddy Cop or Criminal show when?? 
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Mar 23, 2024 04:13
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Arc Hammer posted:You have one round. You drop a prisoner, the rest will jump you, got it? Oh yeah, that dude taking shots at the probably fatally wounded but still living German soldier was incredibly hosed up. There's also a moment where two soldiers surrender screaming that they're Polish, and the soldier who doesn't speak German points out that they're SS and thus must be Germans (I legit don't know enough to know if that is true, but it sounds about right to me). They still take them prisoner though, which brought to mind for me that scene in Saving Private Ryan were two soldiers are trying to surrender and get shot by an American soldier who laughs about it, and apparently they were shouting in Polish that they were conscripts forced into service by the Germans.
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Mar 23, 2024 04:29
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Apparently converting the B-17s in the show to G models would have taken two weeks, so they didn't bother. Really shows the level of effort they put into getting things right for 6 of the 9 episodes when they should have had G models. Edit: And comments on that us bomber youtube guy's video are saying that the the effects team was ready to switch to G models but someone said it wasn't a big deal so they didn't. This show is really embarrassing and the only thing keeping me from being really pissed is that it will likely be possible for someone to come back years from now and update the effects to be accurate. It will likely never happen, but a lot of the mistakes seem to be fixable. You can't fix the story, but they could at least make it look right some day. Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 07:43
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It's like when military movies have embarrassingly bad uniform mistakes that most privates in basic training could've corrected. You could probably find someone to check them for free. Then people always trot out the stupid urban legend that "you have to have one mistake in the uniform or it's illegal."
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Mar 23, 2024 18:09
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Cojawfee posted:This show is really embarrassing and the only thing keeping me from being really pissed is that it will likely be possible for someone to come back years from now and update the effects to be accurate. It will likely never happen, but a lot of the mistakes seem to be fixable. You can't fix the story, but they could at least make it look right some day. It will absolutely, positively never ever happen. When From the Earth to the Moon came out in 1998 one of the effects artists posted about a mistake he'd made in the first episode: When Freedom 7's retrorockets fired, he showed them firing simultaneously instead of sequentially. When they remastered From the Earth to the Moon in HD, not only did they keep the error, they introduced all new ones. Really loving stupid ones, too. 
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Mar 23, 2024 22:12
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That Earth looks big as hell and kinda wonky looking.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:21
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George H.W. oval office posted:That Earth looks big as hell and kinda wonky looking. It's big because I cropped and zoomed to show you that it's 90 degrees off axis Protip: If it's daytime in Libya, it's also daytime in South Africa. It's one of the most famous photographs in human history and they completely and utterly hosed it up.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:25
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In thr book, didn't Dike end the war as a Lt. Col? I love Webster yelling at the surrendering Germans, going "you have horses, what were you thinking?" Because yea, the image of the ww2 Germans being this highly mechanized force when in reality they used horses a lot to transport supplies and artillery.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:41
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twistedmentat posted:In thr book, didn't Dike end the war as a Lt. Col? The super committed Nazis liked horses because they thought horses were fancy.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:44
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Also because the '41 and '42 campaigns into Russia effectively demotorized the German army due to staggering losses of trucks.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:11
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Cojawfee posted:The super committed Nazis liked horses because they thought horses were fancy. One of the funny things about Nazis is they idolized british high culture and tried to emulate them, including having fox hunts. I'm imagining the goons that made up the Nazi inner circle trying to chase a fox through the woods with a very poor showing of horsemanship.
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Mar 24, 2024 02:36
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Sometimes I remember that WW1 Goering was actually good at his job. Meth is a bitch.
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Mar 24, 2024 15:32
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soviet elsa posted:Sometimes I remember that WW1 Goering was actually good at his job. Meth is a bitch. Yeah but fat Goering makes for funny ww2 movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjz8pAGRvsg
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Mar 24, 2024 16:06
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv2yr7n14g4o
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Mar 25, 2024 00:51
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I hear the actors from Masters of the Air will spend 10 seconds in the volume while it is set to Normandy.
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Mar 25, 2024 00:57
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Jerusalem posted:Oh yeah, that dude taking shots at the probably fatally wounded but still living German soldier was incredibly hosed up. I have no idea how true the incident in Band of Brothers is, but it could very well have happened. A large number of "German" troops were not quite German. It is estimated that something like 1.4 million Soviet citizens alone served with the Germans. Add to that every other occupied country plus prisoners and various militias and racist dirtbag local thugs from every country and there is a very good chance that the Nazi troops you're facing are not Germans. Ostruppen were very prevalent in Normandy because they were often given lesser jobs like garrison duty in sectors that were otherwise going to be considered quiet. If anything, by the later parts of the war, the SS was even less German by percentage than the Heer (regular German army). This was because of manpower pissing-match issues at the top where it became difficult for the SS to get priority in access to German men, but they were allowed to recruit outside Germany. A lot of the 'elite' reputation of the SS is because of the low-numbered (1st SS, 2nd SS) divisions that were lavishly equipped with top gear and enthusiastic volunteers from Germany or hard core right wing guys from Netherlands, Denmark, etc, while the later SS units would be ill equipped conscripts from conquered territory. Despite the reputation of the 'elite' units, the majority of SS units in the late half were foreign conscripts who didn't always want to be there. Most of them were used for warcrimey stuff or antipartisan warfare or garrison duty (often all three at once!) but fared poorly against well equipped regular Allied troops. My grandfather was in the German army and he said eventually about 1/2 of his anti-tank unit were actually 'Russians' but more accurately people from all over the Soviet Union. The guys who looked after the horses were Mongolian dudes they nicknamed Genghis and Kublai Khan. Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 25, 2024 |
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Mar 25, 2024 06:09
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Thank you for the lesson, I definitely was under the impression that being in the SS was supposed to be a very strictly controlled thing, but I should have known that like most of the Nazis' purity bullshit the truth was far from the image often being presented.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:06
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