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Humanity is literally a cancer. edit: snipe with that dark rear end philosophical statement, 
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Jun 29, 2020 08:57
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:05 |
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Hi I’m Jeff. I work in our utopian world’s grocery store. I’m about to get married, meaning I qualify for a bigger apartment, which I get for free from the state. They just built that new apartment building over by the beach, it’s got sweet views, and it’s walking distance to some pretty decent waves. I could be surfing every morning. Anyway, I’m pretty sure it will be full before my application is processed and I’m going to get stuck in some lovely mid-city project. Well, it turns out a guy I know who works in resource allocation. He introduced me to a lady who does housing allocation. We got to talking about groceries and the next time we will have fresh lychee fruit (she loves them). We don’t get them often and they go pretty. All food is free, of course, but you gotta get up pretty early in the morning to get the lychees. Long story long, we made a bargain. I put aside some lychees and bring them out when I see her in the store, and she put me in the queue for the beach apartment. Pretty sweet. Thanks communism.
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Jun 29, 2020 09:11
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The Protagonist posted:the functional alternative to money is building up to an effectively post-scarcity utopia wherein each person is treated with the rule "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" but lol if you think the tremendous copiousness & plenitude will ever be divvied up in a fair manner by greedy, horny, murderous mortal apes What if, my needs are very, very large?
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Jun 29, 2020 09:35
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and my ability, well
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Jun 29, 2020 09:37
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What if I’m incredibly lazy and do nothing at work all day? In fact, forget the hypothetical.
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Jun 29, 2020 10:07
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It's real OP but it's abstract, and it's necessary if things are to be produced to be sold on a market to make a profit which is to be reinvested into the same or some other thing to make even more profit. It's not necessary when producing things directly for use. The kinds of calculations needed, ie. "how many things of that do we need to make this much of this and how many people will it take" etc, are already made and must be made at every stage in the chain of production of an item, except they must currently also do calculations of expected returns, marketing, setting up schemes to artificially inflate demand like planned obsolescence, etc etc. Popular "alternative" schemes like labor vouchers would quickly devolve into money, either by direct circulation or through black markets, by introducing artificial scarcity into a system of ostensibly free access. Why people favor these things is a mystery. Maybe they have some warped idea about "fairness", like "he who does not work, neither shall he eat", which is an extremely capitalist idea, regardless of what hosed up poo poo Lenin is trying to sell you. The idea of keeping track of who works and what they are entitled to requires a whole array of hilarious features like money administrators, pencil pushers, police, maybe banks eventually, as well as maintaining the idea that a person's worth is directly measurable by what they own (or how much they have worked). If you're trying to constrain consumption and enforce work, just call it what it is. Free access and voluntary labor, OP. Then money will be unnecessary. The technology has existed for 100 years, but as long as people keep fighting only for what seems to be politically achievable today, like two extra days wage-compensated vacation or an extra  pension when you've got five hours left to live after working yourself to death, or just fighting to preserve previous gains, as long as they fight for that instead of the abolition of the wages system altogether, money will remain. Work sucks and should be minimized. Instead of begging capitalists for a "right to work" people ought to fight for the right to be lazy and live life however they choose.But will they? Or will they find it more important that their neighbor has an economic incentive to go to their useless job to prevent them from freeloading? You decide OP, it's up to you! You can make the concept of money go away tomorrow.
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Jun 29, 2020 13:37
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i have embraced the fakeness of money and i just buy what ever i want now. i figure there will be hyper inflation or shortages or whatever soon and i wont be able to buy anything once everyone else realizes money is fake. so i'm trying to get what i want and enjoy life now before its too late
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Jun 29, 2020 14:47
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The Management posted:What if I’m incredibly lazy and do nothing at work all day? In fact, forget the hypothetical. an accurate user name if i ever saw one
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Jun 29, 2020 14:48
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Welcome to communism, OP
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Jun 29, 2020 15:10
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Funny is make
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Jun 29, 2020 15:18
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Applewhite posted:So I actually have some thoughts on that: Did you just invent a run-of-the-mill social democratic country in Europe? (Except no community hours cause your basic is transferred to your bank account in exchange for pretending to look for work and communal eating is not mandatory)
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Jun 29, 2020 15:20
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The Management posted:Hi I’m Jeff. I work in our utopian world’s grocery store. I’m about to get married, meaning I qualify for a bigger apartment, which I get for free from the state. They just built that new apartment building over by the beach, it’s got sweet views, and it’s walking distance to some pretty decent waves. I could be surfing every morning. I can't tell if you're trying to sarcastically poo poo on the idea of a socialist government but in the event you are, it's pretty cool that even when your imagination is given free reign to describe a situation you think would bad, your strawman version of it is a lot better for the majority of people living in it than capitalism and the money system are for those same people right now in real life We literally live under a system that regularly condemns working-class people to death if they can't afford insulin. Not anywhere near as serious though as... getting out of bed early for a "lychee fruit?" lol
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Jun 29, 2020 20:35
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having the chance to win a good apartment in a lottery vs never being able to afford a nice apartment because you were born in the wrong economic class. hmm i wonder which one is preferable thats tough
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Jun 29, 2020 20:46
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Zybourne Clock posted:
Oh ok, thank you I almost took you seriously for a second.
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Jun 30, 2020 03:00
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Mooey Cow posted:It's real OP but it's abstract, and it's necessary if things are to be produced to be sold on a market to make a profit which is to be reinvested into the same or some other thing to make even more profit. It's not necessary when producing things directly for use. The kinds of calculations needed, ie. "how many things of that do we need to make this much of this and how many people will it take" etc, are already made and must be made at every stage in the chain of production of an item, except they must currently also do calculations of expected returns, marketing, setting up schemes to artificially inflate demand like planned obsolescence, etc etc. Nobody cares about any of this. People want to feel like they're doing better than someone else; money lets them do that. I just want them to realize that the federal government can basically spend without limit, so why not spend a bit more on infrastructure, education, and health care? We already have multiple single payer welfare programs with infinite budgets, the military. The only reason average people don't get a slice of that is propaganda about "deficit spending" and "the debt". You don't need to get rid of money just stop being so goddamn stupid about it. Balancing the budget and paying off the debt is just nonsense. Maybe the real title of the thread should be "The national debt is fake".
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Jun 30, 2020 03:53
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money is what you use to convert the things you have for the things you need (or want) and its really hard to do that efficiently in barter. even if profit somehow could not exist as a concept within the human mind money would exist because basic trade and exchange would be a pain in the rear end otherwise. even in the socialist heavenworld where the state took care of your basic needs people would come up with money on their own because maybe they don't need that last loaf of bread but they could really use a new keyboard or something tbh im curious where money will go now. in the last couple thousand years money has evolved from commodities like cowry shells to coinage to paper backed by metal to paper backed by nothing. eventually the nothing system will either collapse or mutate. i have no actual theories tho im a computer toucher not a money toucher
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Jun 30, 2020 04:19
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As a country we throw away hundreds of thousands of pounds of bread and at least thousands of keyboard per day. The idea that someone should need both but only get one is absurd.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:21
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UHD posted:ancient rome went pay-in-kind for a while when their coins became so debased as to be worthless tbf when the romans did this they did it in the best (read "of course you did, ancient rome") way possible. "The coinage is worthless. But STUFF isn't. Let's quantify literally everything, from bushels of wheat, to fish, to..plates. Everything. All of it." Bureaucrats: Ok cool. What if one plate is nicer than the other plate, like this city makes nice plates, and the plates in Alexandria suck rear end, we all know it. "..two units." B: Ok. What about Egyptian grain? "...1.5 units in good years, 1 unit in regular years. Simple." B: How do we know if it's a 'good ye-' "SIMPLE I SAID" B: ... uh, k. What if I live in Gaul and have a ton of wine units "Then you are wealthy indeed! Units!" B: ..right but I need grain units to live, how do we charge units to move the wine from Gaul to.. "ONE UNIT PER MILE THIS IS SIMPLE" B: ...one unit of WHAT "One unit of transport!" B: What can the transport be paid in? "Units!" B: ...ok but if 1 unit of wine is traded for 1 unit of grain, who is paying transport units? "THIS IS COMPLICATED. TO MAKE IT SIMPLE IT IS NOW ILLEGAL TO TRADE UNITS ACROSS PROVINCE BORDERS." B: ...are you loving serious right now? "ILLEGAL TO TRADE UNITS"
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Jul 27, 2020 17:45
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