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Rent-A-Cop posted:French is a degenerate form of Kreyòl some guy from forever ago: pal franse pa di lespri pou sa much later, jedi master qui-gon: yeah what he said
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Jul 20, 2021 20:42
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GlassEye-Boy posted:https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2021/07/20/covid-19-pfizer-biontech-sinovac-vaccines-equally-effective-says-dr-noor-hisham the pfizer trial involved ~90,000 people iirc, seems like that is a bit of a cherry picked set of terms to compare the two on. Also great efficacy of vaccine would mean the actual number of cases in your vaccinated group is going to be even lower, which appears very much to have been the case.
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Jul 20, 2021 23:08
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Yeah Sinovac sucks a lot and its efficacy has been publicly questioned by multiple countries that have relied on it.
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Jul 20, 2021 23:14
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Daduzi posted:I think he meant the same individuals you cite in your post to which I reply: which individuals? The ones saying they're being killed?
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Jul 21, 2021 01:10
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Yeah Sinovac sucks a lot and its efficacy has been publicly questioned by multiple countries that have relied on it. that 50% efficacy from Brazil looks scary, but so far no countries have pulled it like they did with Astra-Zeneca. Though keep in mind countries that get Sinovac also don't have a lot of choices to jump to in the first place.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:53
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ReginaIplau/status/1416759584966864899 https://www.newsdirectory3.com/ital...ghts-blog-post/ quote:The accusations made over the past year by the United States and its main allies on the alleged Uyghur genocide taking place in Xinjiang and the supposed interment of one and a half million people in concentration camps52, are mainly based on the claims of a certain Adrian Zenz, an independent German anthropologist who has been speculating on the matter for years without ever having set foot in Xinjiang. Other testimonies reported in recent months have also called into question the statements made by two Uyghur women, Tursunay Ziawudun and Sayragul Sautbay, who claim to have been detained in the alleged interment and forced labour camps. Ziawudun, welcomed in the United States by the Uyghur Human Rights Project, has changed her version several times, first claiming that she had never been raped and never witnessed sexual violence53, and subsequently claiming to have been tortured and raped by a group of men54. Sautbay, who emigrated to Sweden, where she joined the Swedish Uyghur Association,a local subsidiary of the WUC (see chapter 1), initially stated that she has not personally witnessed any violence in the centres in question55; a year later, however, she was claiming to have witnessed “all kinds of tortures”in the detention centres56. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 21, 2021 18:03
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You should go check out the Media Analysis & Criticism thread stickied at the top of this forum, OP.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:08
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It should surprise nobody that none of those institutions actually exist.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:11
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Who are the "the Italian Institute of Politics, Society and Economics, the Italian Institute of International Diplomacy, and the Italian Eurasian Mediterranean Research Center"? And what sort of news outlet is 'newsdirectory3'? What makes them credible?quote:The report said that Xinjiang was once deeply harmed by terrorism, and the Chinese government adopted a temporary and permanent solution to solve the problem. The Chinese government has responded in two ways: one is to establish a new international organization to assist in counter-terrorism, such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to cooperate with neighboring countries, and to cooperate more with Central Asian countries in counter-terrorism; the second is to formulate new laws, through laws and other means, to help counter-terrorism. To curb terrorism and provide more tools, including carrying out education and training in accordance with the law. The Chinese government has thought of a way, and it is an effective way. This seems just like blatantly apologia behind the veneer of respectability. quote:The report pointed out that in 2018, former U.S. Secretary of State Powell’s Office Director and former Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson stated that there are 20 million Uighurs in Xinjiang, China. If you want to destabilize China, the best way is to create unrest in Xinjiang. Destroy China directly from within. Whataboutism in my report? Say it ain't so! quote:For a period of time, some Western scholars, think tanks, and media have kept talking about “genocide” and “forced labor” in Xinjiang. Palandi pointed out that these people and organizations are openly anti-China people and organizations. Appeal to bias. A quick google about "Fabio Massimo Palandi" is mainly Chinese State government sources signal boosting him; seems like an op to me. I can't find any evidence with a cursory google that he exists.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:21
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One of those organizations mentioned (or at least, their logo is shown on the cover the "report") does seem to exist but they only describe themselves as a "private agency": https://eurispes.eu/eurispes-institute-of-political-economic-and-social-studies/ However a search for this Palandi individual doesn't yield any results on their website. You know, in case it wasn't already clear that this is pure bullshit. EDIT: One of the other organizations has a website here: https://idi-international.org It is a pain in the rear end to load for some reason, but it has an English version of that report if you want to read it for some reason. The front page very heavily emphasizes this report and not much else. Bizarro Watt fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 18:28
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Look carefully and you will see that is not the institute listed in the article.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:34
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Some good laughs there to take our minds off the horrorshow of rain and flooding currently going on in China. Bunch of people died in a subway after it filled with water. Not going to link the images of dead people, of course, but here's footage from inside one of the carriages and you can see the water rushing past outside, in the tunnel in the second quote. Rascar Capac posted:https://twitter.com/manyapan/status/1417480423379197956?s=19 Vesi posted:commuting in Zhengzhou like Just loving horrifying. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 18:39
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Nilbop posted:Look carefully and you will see that is not the institute listed in the article. Don't be condescending. I'm pointing out that the propaganda report they are touting is using the logo of an organization of no real importance or stature, which is further evidence that this article and report are just a propaganda effort.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:39
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Yeah this is a tragic environmental catastrophe for Henan, and I hope it gets better quickly.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:40
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Bizarro Watt posted:Don't be condescending. I'm pointing out that the propaganda report they are touting is using the logo of an organization of no real importance or stature, which is further evidence that this article and report are just a propaganda effort. I wasn’t. These fictitious institutes are designed to sound like ones that actually exist.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:43
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Nilbop posted:I wasn’t. These fictitious institutes are designed to sound like ones that actually exist. That was my misreading then, apologies for that. Bizarro Watt fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 18:52
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Nilbop posted:It should surprise nobody that none of those institutions actually exist. I don't think much of the report, but EURISPES. (Institute of Political, Economic and Social Studies) is a real Italian think tank, and 5he report is on their website. The problem is basically that the report says, "Well, the US doesn't like the Belt and Road Initiative, so they're listening to Uighur groups who say they're suffering from persecution, but some journalists and scholars have gone to Xinjiang and say only jihadist terrorists are locked up. So all claims to the contrary just are attempts to downplay the fact that the Uighurrs are later invaders and that Xinjiang is naturally Han Chinese. Plus it was virtually unlovable until China poured all this money into it. And thats basically the report. I will point out that EURISPES appears to have a pretty good relationship with China, and the author, per a China Today interview with him, is " associate professor of international political economy and global studies at China Foreign Affairs University and the Italian International Institute Lorenzo de’Medici". This is the link to the report on the EURISPES website, so I'm pretty sure they did author it. https://eurispes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/rapporto.en-xinjiang_2021.pdf Epicurius fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 19:08
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I'm just surprised that people are still trying to trot out the whole 'adrian zenz and american puppetmasters controlling all western media making it up' argument when its been torn to shreds before in the thread.
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Jul 21, 2021 20:10
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Pharohman777 posted:I'm just surprised that people are still trying to trot out the whole 'adrian zenz and american puppetmasters controlling all western media making it up' argument when its been torn to shreds before in the thread. It's almost as though China via its various affiliated media outlets and think tanks were trying to fabricate some kind of acknowledgement in order to proceed with doing the things it already intended to be doing.
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Jul 21, 2021 21:29
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Pharohman777 posted:I'm just surprised that people are still trying to trot out the whole 'adrian zenz and american puppetmasters controlling all western media making it up' argument when its been torn to shreds before in the thread. They're just taking their cues from old school creationists, like Gish. He'd go to a debate and say poo poo like "bananas are proof evolution is a lie", get thoroughly destroyed by everyone there, and go "Oops, I was wrong". Then he'd go to his next debate, or write his next article and say "bananas are proof evolution is a lie". Almost like the agenda is more important than the facts. And it can be incredibly effective. Imagine if that rando had come into this thread and there weren't people around who knew enough to call it out as the bullshit it was? Wow, all those official looking names! They surely must know better. And Italy isn't either the US or China, that must mean they're impartial. Etc. That's another thing creationists did. Fabricate quotes or selectively quote them out of context. Because 99% of people aren't going to, or aren't able to, check them out themselves and evaluate how credible they are. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 04:52
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I think it's a good idea to read Adam Tooze in general, but I thought this thread might be interested in his recent piece on the centrality of China to the future. https://www.newstatesman.com/international/places/2021/07/why-there-no-solution-our-age-crisis-without-china Some selected excerpts: quote:This devastating sequence of events was humiliating to China, but it also confirmed Hobson’s point: all the major world powers were in China because they believed they needed to be. In light of recent developments in the buttcoin space, I found this to be amusing: quote:Mao himself despised bureaucracy and pushed decentralisation quote:Whereas under Mao priority had always been given to revolutionary consciousness and action, now a more orthodox form of materialism reasserted itself. quote:The World Bank was convinced that China’s “immense wealth of human talent, effort and discipline” would enable it “within a generation or so, to achieve a tremendous increase in the living standards of its people”. quote:After his visit, Gorbachev presided over the political and economic collapse of the Soviet Union. quote:Instead of a crisis-driven course of shock therapy – in which a state-controlled economy is rapidly transformed into a market economy, as in Russia in the early 1990s – in China the hard men of the revolutionary generation, led by Chun Yen, remained in control of economic policy. quote:The George W Bush administration soon restored most- favoured-nation (MFN) status to Chinese exports and American businesses swarmed to China. In 2001, China joined the World Trade Organisation, the moment that truly inaugurated the era of modern globalisation. China’s factories flooded world markets with cheap manufactured goods. Labour unions in the West protested at unfair competition and China’s rigged exchange rates, but a bipartisan commitment to globalisation among the American and European elite held that opposition in check. quote:China’s banking system in the 1990s was fragile, but Beijing neutralised the risks by hiving off unpayable debts into bad banks. What emerged were a series of financial giants which in terms of assets are now rated as the three largest banks in the world. quote:Given the heightened rhetoric of the moment, it is worth reminding oneself of what China is not. It is no longer the Mao-era promoter of third-world revolution. It isn’t an oil-rich, religiously sanctioned absolutist monarchy like Saudi Arabia, spawning terrorism and bankrolling repression. It isn’t a nuclear peer state that sends “little green men” to occupy the territory of its neighbour. Nor is it a military hyper-power that dispatches drones to kill its enemies around in the world, engages in wars of choice and destabilises fragile states in pursuit of “responsibility to protect” operations. quote:]Even now, Western investors continue to place their bets on Xi’s China dream. Despite escalating tension, 2021 has so far been a bumper year for foreign investment in China. Apple has added to its supply chain there. The UK’s Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, has declared that the City of London is once more open for business with China. quote:Only China has the clout necessary to move the energy exporters of the world, especially Russia, to begin preparing to move beyond oil. Beijing, quite literally, holds the future of the humanity in its hands. quote:If China is the second- or third-largest economy in the world, that is enough to attract America’s suspicion and hostility. That it is large, alien and aspires to full sovereignty is enough.
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Jul 23, 2021 15:14
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Saw a hot take about how Mao freed Tibet, and by god that shitposter was right, unironically. The CCP freed Tibet's slaves and ran their theocratic ruler out of power. gently caress Bono.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:48
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Megillah Gorilla posted:They're just taking their cues from old school creationists, like Gish. Yeah, a much better argument is that there is actually no evidence of a genocide in Xinjiang. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
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Aug 1, 2021 22:58
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Yeah, a much better argument is that there is actually no evidence of a genocide in Xinjiang. From your own article quote:There is little dispute within the U.S. government that China’s treatment of the Uighur population has been horrific and criminal: More than 1 million Uighurs have been detained in reeducation camps, and many have reportedly been subjected to forced labor and sterilization. China has committed numerous crimes listed in the convention as acts of genocide, including the prevention of births and infliction of bodily or mental harm on members of a group and the compulsory separation of children from their communities, according to human rights groups. The CCP is enacting a genocide of the Uighur people. It is not up for debate.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:04
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How are u posted:From your own article "within the US Government" key phrase. They were also convinced Iraq had WMDs, but didn't have anything to prove it to anyone but themselves. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 1, 2021 23:05
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How are u posted:From your own article You’d think that but! Grand Theft Autobot posted:"within the US Government" key phrase. They were also convinced Iraq had WMDs, but didn't have anything to prove it to anyone but themselves. Apparently it is! I’m glad we have people willing to fight the good fight denying genocide on these forums.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:29
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Saw a hot take about how Mao freed Tibet, and by god that shitposter was right, unironically. The CCP freed Tibet's slaves and ran their theocratic ruler out of power. gently caress Bono. Yeah dude, I'm so glad Cortés stopped the Aztec human sacrifices and wars of conquest to subjugate neighboring tribes. Thank god the British Empire worked to end slavery in its territories while at the same time enriching itself off it before. We can play the colonialism apologia game all day. If you want to be a toadie for the CCP go find a job for it or volunteer to do it, instead of this pointless trolling here. Imagine all the people you could reach spreading your gospel of the CCP!
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Aug 1, 2021 23:34
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Mods, a serious question. Why isn't genocide denial worth a permaban?
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Aug 2, 2021 00:04
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Spacewolf posted:Mods, a serious question. Why isn't genocide denial worth a permaban? Short answer: Ask in QCS or feel free to PM one of us to discuss it, but it's not something I can really hash out here.
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Aug 2, 2021 00:09
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why do i have to live in a time where the most zealously visible modern inheritors of duane gish's dogmatic bullshiting techniques are a bunch of dumb as gently caress leftists who use it to relentlessly cape for dictators who aren't even communists? i'll take my question off the air as i have to publish my report from the American North-American Caucasian Appalachian Research Center about how the native american genocide never happened
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Aug 2, 2021 00:17
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Really gotta put qualifiers on it though, when people say just “genocide” the meaning is systematic death and eradication, which clearly isn’t happening. Better to say “cultural genocide”, that way what you say might actually be correct and you can go from there. And the CPC is still very much communist don’t be silly. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 2, 2021 02:49
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Fortaleza posted:Really gotta put qualifiers on it though, when people say just “genocide” the meaning is systematic death and eradication, which clearly isn’t happening. Better to say “cultural genocide”, that way what you say might actually be correct and you can go from there. The original definition of genocide proposed to the UN in the 40s was more along the lines of "cultural genocide", but this definition was abandoned because (as you can guess) the leading members of the UN at the time didn't want to be called out for their own genocides they had been and were doing. https://youtu.be/m316DcYhb8w
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Aug 2, 2021 02:52
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Handsome Ralph posted:Short answer: Ask in QCS or feel free to PM one of us to discuss it, but it's not something I can really hash out here. Just want to say thank you for stepping in. Things were getting really weird around the forums for a while with people trying to push the "not real genocide" rhetoric line and it just kinda going under the radar. I say this as someone who has never been paid by the CIA, obviously. I know we think of most goons as middle aged and profoundly cynical - I know I am - but there are still a lot of young idealistic people here and I wonder if this is a symptom of their first big social awakening about how hosed up the world is and the very natural but simplistic desire to have one big strong daddy who stands against everything bad, read: the US. At the moment there is only one superpower big enough to have any effect against the US, so they gravitate to that as their shining light on the trashpile which is the world. The view that the world needs Big Daddy Hardman to make the tough decisions and all the human damage which falls along the wayside is either acceptable for the greater good or, simultaneously doesn't exist and is all a lie by The Enemy seems to be a hard coded phase that some people just go through. I'm just glad that my "Why isn't there a dictator who speaks for me and hurts who I want to hurt?" phase was pre-internet. Like all the rest of the dumbassery I did as a kid.
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Aug 2, 2021 04:52
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To add to that, a huge thanks to Ralph for being direct with me and actually giving me reasons to hope regarding D&D in our PM conversation.
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Aug 2, 2021 11:31
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Fortaleza posted:Really gotta put qualifiers on it though, when people say just “genocide” the meaning is systematic death and eradication, which clearly isn’t happening. Better to say “cultural genocide”, any dumb motherfucker comes up to me and says "the indian schools in america weren't systematically intending to kill the indians, even if a bunch die in the process, so it's not genocide" they're being a shitwad about it. likewise with what china is doing. it's genocide. qualifiers loving nothing, it's genocide quote:that way what you say might actually be correct and you can go from there. am correct, is happening, hth
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Aug 2, 2021 12:30
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Fortaleza posted:Really gotta put qualifiers on it though, when people say just “genocide” the meaning is systematic death and eradication, which clearly isn’t happening. Better to say “cultural genocide”, that way what you say might actually be correct and you can go from there. This is absolutely correct and while I'm sure most posters itt aren't doing it intentionally there are definitely a certain number of people who very deliberately toss out the word specifically to take advantage of its 'industrial slaughter holocaust' connotations to emphasise how spectacularly evil the CCP is then hide behind the much more wide-ranging formal UN definition to shut down conversation the second someone suggests that Xi Jinping might not, in fact, be Adolf Hitler. There's quite obviously a politically motivated reason why China is being highlighted as particularly at fault here while other countries do exactly the same poo poo to resounding silence, or at the very most 'well yes France or the US or Hungary are also potentially doing ongoing genocides anyway back to how bad the terrifying reds are!!!'. That's not a whataboutism - Chinese policy is clearly oppressive here - but if you can't see why it has become the centre of attention here, loudly encouraged by Western think-tanks etc, than you're either blind or impossibly naive. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 13:22
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Fortaleza posted:Really gotta put qualifiers on it though, when people say just “genocide” the meaning is systematic death and eradication, which clearly isn’t happening. Better to say “cultural genocide”, that way what you say might actually be correct and you can go from there. "Cultural" genocide is genocide.
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Aug 2, 2021 13:49
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We're not genociding them, we're just forcefully interring them, torturing them, sterilizing them, removing their children from them, tearing down and abolishing their culture, and repurposing them towards manufacturing servitude in concentration camps. That's not genocide, that's just uhhhhhh economically uplifting them, it's different
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Aug 2, 2021 13:55
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ThomasPaine posted:This is absolutely correct and while I'm sure most posters itt aren't doing it intentionally there are definitely a certain number of people who very deliberately toss out the word specifically to take advantage of its 'industrial slaughter holocaust' connotations to emphasise how spectacularly evil the CCP is then hide behind the much more wide-ranging formal UN definition to shut down conversation the second someone suggests that Xi Jinping might not, in fact, be Adolf Hitler. Um, yikes. Mods can we squash this chud?
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Aug 2, 2021 14:03
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UP AND ADAM posted:Um, yikes. Mods can we squash this chud? Which part of my post broke any of the rules? I have not claimed that Chinese policy in Xinjiang does not meet the criteria for genocide according to the UN definition. What precisely have I said that you disagree with?
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Aug 2, 2021 14:20
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