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Guzim posted:I thought that Austin and Rock were the original choices, but they both felt that Jericho deserved it. I'm not sure who the original was, but Austin and Rock both said they wanted to put Jericho over because he was great, would make him a star, and was the right decision for business. This is even bigger when you remember that Austin was careful with his booking, refusing to do an angle with Jarrett or put over Hunter at Summerslam '99. Then Triple H comes back and he and the writers completly poo poo on what Austin and Rock did by making Jericho Steph's bitch. Of course, Triple H can be pretty retarded when it comes to booking. He claims in interviews that you don't get guys over by bringing stars down (basically, having main eventers lose feuds to guys being built up), despite that being how stars were made for decades and being how HHH was made into a legit main event star (his feud with Foley).
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Nov 18, 2009 17:05
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oldpainless posted:I hope he wasn't the original choice. I can't believe the writing team sat down, chose Jericho as champ, wrote out his storyline, and then everyone agreed this was good for both Jericho and the WWE. How wasn't Jericho winning the Undisputed Title good for him and WWE? His reign didn't end well thanks to HHH and Stephanie but winning it was a good idea.
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Nov 18, 2009 17:21
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Super Ninja Fish posted:How wasn't Jericho winning the Undisputed Title good for him and WWE? His reign didn't end well thanks to HHH and Stephanie but winning it was a good idea. No doubt, but his booking from the time he won it until he lost it was loving terrible. He was essentially the Honky Tonk Man but with the World Title rather than the IC.
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Nov 18, 2009 18:19
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dusty udder smoker posted:to be fair most of us were like 10-14 and weren't concerned about snowflakes. there's a reason road dogg always got a giant reaction despite not being able to wrestle worth a drat To be fair, CC was like 8 when the rest of us were 10-14.
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Nov 18, 2009 18:37
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After watching Raw this week, have there been many other multi team tag matches with those kind of rules? Usually they're more "tornado tag"-type matches; or the ones where you have 2 men in the ring, and anyone can be tagged in (like the one at Wrestlemania XX)
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Nov 18, 2009 18:44
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dusty udder smoker posted:honestly i wonder if jericho was even supposed to get the title then. if you noticed, the set for Vengeance was extreeeeeeeeeeemely sledgehammer themed, and hhh was originally thought to be returning a little big after survivor series I just brought it up on Youtube, and the Vengeance logo video loop is literally a sledgehammer pounding stamps into a bar of iron
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Nov 18, 2009 18:47
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oldpainless posted:I hope he wasn't the original choice. I can't believe the writing team sat down, chose Jericho as champ, wrote out his storyline, and then everyone agreed this was good for both Jericho and the WWE. Chris Jericho, one of the most consistently popular wrestlers in the WWE, who up until then had never held a top belt for longer than three minutes in a reign that wasn't official in the first place? Yeah, terrible idea.
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Nov 18, 2009 19:50
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CM Junk posted:Chris Jericho, one of the most consistently popular wrestlers in the WWE, who up until then had never held a top belt for longer than three minutes in a reign that wasn't official in the first place? Yeah, terrible idea. As a whole, yes. It was terrible. The whole thing was just a loving clusterfuck of a joke and made Jericho look so weak and HHH so dominant, ending his reign was more a mercy-killing than anything else. So, your right. It was terrible.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:22
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Super Ninja Fish posted:How wasn't Jericho winning the Undisputed Title good for him and WWE? His reign didn't end well thanks to HHH and Stephanie but winning it was a good idea. I meant the whole thing taken altogether. Yeah, Jericho winning initially was a good idea but then what happened with the booking and with Stephanie overshadowing him was God-awful. If what happened was really planned in advance by the booking team, then the whole thing was terrible regardless of Jericho's individual merits. I would rather have had Jericho never be champ and stay over than watch his title reign devalue him and just be an excuse to put over HHH and Stephanie.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:27
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I don't know if the HHH angle was planned from the start, but it does seem like it was spontaneous. Undisputed Champ Jericho before he got involved with HHH was pretty much a completely different character.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:28
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oldpainless posted:As a whole, yes. It was terrible. The whole thing was just a loving clusterfuck of a joke and made Jericho look so weak and HHH so dominant, ending his reign was more a mercy-killing than anything else. So, your right. It was terrible. oldpainless posted:I meant the whole thing taken altogether. Yeah, Jericho winning initially was a good idea but then what happened with the booking and with Stephanie overshadowing him was God-awful. If what happened was really planned in advance by the booking team, then the whole thing was terrible regardless of Jericho's individual merits. I would rather have had Jericho never be champ and stay over than watch his title reign devalue him and just be an excuse to put over HHH and Stephanie. You aren't putting blame where blame is due. You're acting like the problem with the angle was the fact that it was Jericho they put the title on, but at the same time you've made it exceedingly clear that the fault lies with the bookers for making Jericho look weak through the usual HHH-centric booking. Which is true; I'm not acting like he was perfectly booked. But until Triple H became the contender, Jericho was booked well. Like CC said, he was completely different. He was repeatedly going over both the Rock and Austin, and getting increasingly more paranoid. He cut an incredible promo where the Rock was cutting him down like usual until Jericho interrupted him and basically said "NO! I AM SICK OF THIS BULLSHIT. YOU WILL TAKE ME SERIOUSLY, DAMMIT." The Jericho-Triple H program sucked because of Triple H, not Jericho.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:33
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apsouthern posted:After watching Raw this week, have there been many other multi team tag matches with those kind of rules? Usually they're more "tornado tag"-type matches; or the ones where you have 2 men in the ring, and anyone can be tagged in (like the one at Wrestlemania XX) I can't think of any, WWE tend to be careful to keep only two guys legal in the ring despite how many teams there are.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:33
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Jericho as undisputed champ was great right up until it became the Triple H and Stephanie show (with cameo by Chris Irvine as "the grumpy landlord"). Even then, Jericho worked pretty well with what he had (being freaked out as he realized Stephanie was using him to get at Triple H, for example) and their match COULD have been a really good ending to his reign but WWE completely underestimated the level of fervor for Rock/Hogan, one of the few instances when the title match should NOT have gone on last at Wrestlemania. So Mania ended like a damp squib because Hogan/Rock had absolutely exhausted the crowd and they simply could NOT get up the energy to get invested in the title match.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:38
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CM Junk posted:You aren't putting blame where blame is due. You're acting like the problem with the angle was the fact that it was Jericho they put the title on, but at the same time you've made it exceedingly clear that the fault lies with the bookers for making Jericho look weak through the usual HHH-centric booking. You're right. It was not Jericho's fault, but it was still a bad reign due to booking. The beginning was good with paranoid Jericho but when I think of his Undisputed Champion run, it goes back to how it ended so badly for Jericho. Good God, that crowd was disinterested in the HHH-Jericho main event. But once the WWE had put Hunter on the fast-track to the title after returning from injury, Jericho paid the price for it. And that pisses me off.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:44
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And of course, the reaction for Hogan was so huge they had him win the Undisputed title off of Triple H almost immediately which certainly seemed like the right choice at the time, but it wasn't long before the nostalgia completely disappeared and people were actually booing Hogan. Thank God for the Undertaker.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:48
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oldpainless posted:I would rather have had Jericho never be champ and stay over than watch his title reign devalue him and just be an excuse to put over HHH and Stephanie. I dont know about that. Jerichos reign was handled very badly, but has it hurt him in the long run? He didnt need a belt to be over, and he seems reasonably happy with the way his career has gone. I dont think that not having the belt (and the badly booked title reign) would have helped him any, and this way he'll be remembered in wrestling trivia threads as long as the WWE exists as the first wrestler to hold the WWE and WCW titles simultainiously. I guess what I'm saying is that although it was shite, it didnt hurt him much as he stayed in the upper card, and this way at least the first unified champion was a good wrestler.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:49
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Jerusalem posted:And of course, the reaction for Hogan was so huge they had him win the Undisputed title off of Triple H almost immediately which certainly seemed like the right choice at the time, but it wasn't long before the nostalgia completely disappeared and people were actually booing Hogan. Thank God for the Undertaker. I watched their match and when the Taker goes for the choke slam, Hogan goes dead weight and refuses to go up, then Taker whispers something in his ear and then miraculously, Hogan goes up for the choke slam.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:50
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Jerusalem posted:And of course, the reaction for Hogan was so huge they had him win the Undisputed title off of Triple H almost immediately which certainly seemed like the right choice at the time, but it wasn't long before the nostalgia completely disappeared and people were actually booing Hogan. Thank God for the Undertaker. Heel BikerTaker remains one of my top five wrestlers of all time. Good God he was awesome during that phase. I wish he could have stayed heel longer.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:50
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ColeM posted:I watched their match and when the Taker goes for the choke slam, Hogan goes dead weight and refuses to go up, then Taker whispers something in his ear and then miraculously, Hogan goes up for the choke slam. "gently caress you Taker!" "I will murder you for real" "...nevermind"
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Nov 18, 2009 22:53
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apsouthern posted:After watching Raw this week, have there been many other multi team tag matches with those kind of rules? Usually they're more "tornado tag"-type matches; or the ones where you have 2 men in the ring, and anyone can be tagged in (like the one at Wrestlemania XX) There was one at one of the Cyber Sundays I think. It was a 4 team tornado tag match. Had the Highlanders, Cryme Tyme, Cade and Murdoch, Haas/Vis in it. I think that wis when Cryme Tyme won their Tag Title shot against Spirit Squad, but never used it.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:53
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ColeM posted:I watched their match and when the Taker goes for the choke slam, Hogan goes dead weight and refuses to go up, then Taker whispers something in his ear and then miraculously, Hogan goes up for the choke slam. If you go back over their history, the Undertaker seems to be the one person who remained both kayfabe and "real" immune to Hogan's bullshit. It probably helps that he's a 7 foot tall, 300lb undead demon cowboy soul collector from hell.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:55
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ColeM posted:I watched their match and when the Taker goes for the choke slam, Hogan goes dead weight and refuses to go up, then Taker whispers something in his ear and then miraculously, Hogan goes up for the choke slam. I dunno I've seen that and honestly, considering how well he goes up the second time (not very well at all) I assumed that Hogan just didn't have it in the tank to even jump, and UT probably just said something like 'come on, seriously?' His second jump is practically nothing. I generally assume malice especially in the case of someone like Hogan but thats just a weird incident.
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Nov 18, 2009 22:57
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FishBulb posted:I dunno I've seen that and honestly, considering how well he goes up the second time (not very well at all) I assumed that Hogan just didn't have it in the tank to even jump, and UT probably just said something like 'come on, seriously?' I thought it was more just they got the timing wrong and Taker counted off so it would go smoother. (hosed up chokeslam) Taker: gently caress. 1..2..3!
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Nov 18, 2009 22:59
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oldpainless posted:I thought it was more just they got the timing wrong and Taker counted off so it would go smoother. Yeah thats also possible. I just don't think Hogan was trying to sandbag. He's a piece of poo poo but I don't think even he would try to sandbag Taker.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:00
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FishBulb posted:Yeah thats also possible. What's funny is that as revered as Hogan is, at this point Taker and Michaels have to garner way more honest, legitimate respect from other wrestlers at this point.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:03
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Is there a person in the entire history of the sport that's more widely respected than The Undertaker?
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Nov 18, 2009 23:19
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sportsgenius86 posted:Is there a person in the entire history of the sport that's more widely respected than The Undertaker? Andre The Giant, maybe? I think maybe 2 people didn't like him?
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Nov 18, 2009 23:21
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sportsgenius86 posted:Is there a person in the entire history of the sport that's more widely respected than The Undertaker? Michaels, Flair, Andre and Bruno all come close but nope.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:26
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Karmine posted:Michaels, Flair, Andre and Bruno all come close but nope. Flair isn't exactly without enemies, but at this point they're mostly nobodies.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:29
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I think it's pretty much just Taker and Andre. Everyone else either destroyed their own legacy (in Flair's case, he sold it) or still has pools of people that hate them. If it weren't for Bret Hart I'd say HBK is up there, but I think even then his history of drug abuse burned a few bridges. And if we're going with non-wrestlers, JR and Heenan are at the top of the list.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:29
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Flair isn't exactly without enemies, but at this point they're mostly nobodies. What do you think happened to the Undertaker's enemies? CM Junk posted:I think it's pretty much just Taker and Andre. Everyone else either destroyed their own legacy (in Flair's case, he sold it) or still has pools of people that hate them. If it weren't for Bret Hart I'd say HBK is up there, but I think even then his history of drug abuse burned a few bridges. Yeah but "history" is a key word. Cleaning up, finding Jesus, and being sorry for all the stupid poo poo he did in the 90s probably won over a lot of people who hated him beforehand (Bret notwithstanding).
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Nov 18, 2009 23:30
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Jerusalem posted:Andre The Giant, maybe? I think maybe 2 people didn't like him? Iron Sheik hates him. Then again, Iron Sheik hates him.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:32
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CM Junk posted:if we're going with non-wrestlers, JR and Heenan are at the top of the list. Road Dogg hates JR for some reason that's probably just him being a bitter junkie. He's the only one, though. Bobby Eaton is someone I never hear bad things about.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:36
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CombineThresher posted:
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Nov 18, 2009 23:39
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Eddie Guerrero and Owen Hart are the only others I can think of. How much of that is the tragic circumstances of their deaths, not wanting to speak ill of the dead, etc., I dont know.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:41
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Meat Recital posted:Eddie Guerrero and Owen Hart are the only others I can think of. How much of that is the tragic circumstances of their deaths, not wanting to speak ill of the dead, etc., I dont know. Everything I know about Owen Hart points to him being far and away the nicest and least sleazy person in the history of professional wrestling.
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Nov 18, 2009 23:51
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Karmine posted:Everything I know about Owen Hart points to him being far and away the nicest and least sleazy person in the history of professional wrestling. Seconding this. Reading stuff about Owen makes me question how the hell he even got into this stuff in the first place. Then I remember "HART HART HART"
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Nov 19, 2009 00:08
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Karmine posted:Everything I know about Owen Hart points to him being far and away the nicest and least sleazy person in the history of professional wrestling. It seems like a toss-up between him and Christian for the title of 'nicest guy in wrestling'. The only bad thing I've heard anyone say about Owen is that he dicussed doing the reverse-piledriver with Austin before the match, Austin refused but Owen did it anyway.
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Nov 19, 2009 00:28
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Sting seems a decent fellow
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Nov 19, 2009 00:41
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I've never heard a bad word said about Brad Armstrong either (except from CM Punk  ) In fact this quote from Arn Anderson sums it up perfectly:quote:"Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go backstage. I'm proud of myself, I just beat Brad Armstrong."- Arn Anderson, WCW Saturday Night, 1992
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Nov 19, 2009 02:47
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