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Lamuella posted:have we had a Miz/Morrison feud? I know they tagged and broke up, and we had Miz/Morrison/Bryan in a submissions match, but considering Miz is now WWE champ and Morrison has been on an upwards trajectory for some time, I really think you could do a feud that would elevate both of them. Bragging Rights 2009
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Apr 9, 2011 21:41
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Giedroyc posted:Warrior's been in a few good/great matches He could have 30 second squash matches that were entertaining enough due to his intensity, but really his only good matches are WM VI & VII, VI because it was the most scripted match ever so it was more like Pat Patterson playing with his Hogan and Warrior Wrestling Buddies, and VII because it was Savage in his prime. Otherwise, Warrior is one of the worst workers ever.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:10
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Hirams Bitch posted:He could have 30 second squash matches that were entertaining enough due to his intensity, but really his only good matches are WM VI & VII, VI because it was the most scripted match ever so it was more like Pat Patterson playing with his Hogan and Warrior Wrestling Buddies, and VII because it was Savage in his prime. Not that it needs to be said, but "Savage in his prime" includes heavily scripting his big matches. Goes along with WM VI, and if the best thing you can say about a guy is "he had good matches when they were with charismatic workers and heavily scripted," that doesn't really say much for his workrate.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:13
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Does anyone what happened with Vince Russo and his short stint in WWE, I think in 2002. He rejoined the writing staff and was almost immediately released that same week. What happened?
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Apr 9, 2011 23:17
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Yet the Ultimate Warrior despite all his flaws is still remembered and indeed featured in the demo of a videogame released this year. Yet strangely Tatsumi Fujinami and Dean Malenko both didn't feature despite their astonishing workrates. Heavily scripted! oh my! someone call DDP he wasn't popular in 1998 at all.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:28
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Giedroyc posted:Yet the Ultimate Warrior despite all his flaws is still remembered and indeed featured in the demo of a videogame released this year. Yet strangely Tatsumi Fujinami and Dean Malenko both didn't feature despite their astonishing workrates. Are you trying to argue that Ultimate Warrior was a better worker that Dean Malenko? Malenko and Fujinami aren't in the game because they never meant poo poo in the WWF. Ultimate Warrior was a character that blew up in the WWF pretty huge for a couple years before his act got tired, and is still one of the most recognized figures in wrestling, but he was a terrible worker and by all accounts a dickbag backstage.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:33
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Giedroyc posted:Yet the Ultimate Warrior despite all his flaws is still remembered and indeed featured in the demo of a videogame released this year. Yet strangely Tatsumi Fujinami and Dean Malenko both didn't feature despite their astonishing workrates. lol
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Apr 9, 2011 23:34
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Hirams Bitch posted:Are you trying to argue that Ultimate Warrior was a better worker that Dean Malenko? No, as per my original post I'm saying he was a popular worker who had some good/great matches who has been demonised for various reasons. 'Terrible worker' doesn't really mean gently caress all to the general public.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:41
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CortezFantastic posted:Does anyone what happened with Vince Russo and his short stint in WWE, I think in 2002. He rejoined the writing staff and was almost immediately released that same week. What happened? Russo claims in his book to have contacted Vince McMahon when the ratings began to fall beneath a 4.0. Russo had an idea to save the WWE by bringing in Eric Bischoff to be the snake in the grass, being tortured and tormented by McMahon until he turned his son against him and brought back WCW for a second invasion. Russo claims he was brought in as a result of this to be the new head creative for the company. Russo took over control of one meeting of the creative team where he spent three hours explaining his big plan for the company. He was shocked when no one commented on his ideas, and that there was bad feedback to his ideas. Russo then claims that he was dropped down to a consultant as a result of Michael Hayes and Paul Heymans politics, which led him to quit when he recieved the reduced contract in the post. Other people have very different memories of what happened. Most suggest that he wasn't brought in to head up the creative department, but was always intended to be just another voice. According to these reports when he arrived at the meeting he spent the entire time demeaning the other writers and telling them that they hadn't done anything in the industry compared to him, and they were all "children wanting to suck at his teet." Those same reports suggest that he was not asked back to any meetings and that there was no contract offer. Strangely enough there is a lot to suggest that during this time he was actually working for both the WWE and TNA. While Jerry Jarrett wanted nothing to do with Russo, a lot of shoot interviews and reports at the time suggested that, unknown to Jerry, Russo was ghost writing the early shows including those that occured during his cup of tea with the WWE. If you have ever watched the first few weeks of TNA when Russo was allegedly not involved you probably noticed there was a lot that was familiar about it.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:49
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CortezFantastic posted:Does anyone what happened with Vince Russo and his short stint in WWE, I think in 2002. He rejoined the writing staff and was almost immediately released that same week. What happened? The other writers all complained when he came in and didn't really want to work with him is probably part of it. He also pitched a big angle to Vince that was supposedly focused on another WCW invasion centered on Bischoff and some of the main-eventers that didn't come over in the original invasion. Vince was not impressed and he was removed from writing and given the option of a stay at home 'consultant' job, but he declined it and went to work at TNA for less money.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:51
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Giedroyc posted:'Terrible worker' doesn't really mean gently caress all to the general public. There are limits to this point. Hogan/Warrior II pretty much killed Warrior's comeback and is pointed to as one of the big turning points in WCW's good fortune. 'Good worker' doesn't just refer to the moves that a wrestler can pull off. It refers to the story that the wrestler is able to tell in the ring. Move-for-move, Hogan's a below average wrestler but he could tell a story and as such, he's a good worker. Warrior couldn't tell an in-ring story to save his life. It's no coincidence that the matches you've listed as 'good' Warrior matches involve some of wrestlings greatest storytellers.
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Apr 10, 2011 00:20
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Is there any particular reason behind Kendrick being let go? I seem to remember he being upper-mid card in Smackdown, then according to Wiki, he basicially got jobbed the hell out of the company.
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Apr 10, 2011 00:48
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KildarX posted:Is there any particular reason behind Kendrick being let go? I seem to remember he being upper-mid card in Smackdown, then according to Wiki, he basicially got jobbed the hell out of the company. Pot.
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Apr 10, 2011 00:50
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Captain Magic posted:Pot. To expand on this, he constantly tested positive for pot when he did drug testing, and would be fined. He began joking that he would take the money with him to testing because he had no intention of stopping. WWE then basically made it clear to him he could stop smoking weed and continue getting pushed or he could keep smoking weed, stop getting pushed, start getting buried and eventually be fired. He chose.... poorly.
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Apr 10, 2011 00:58
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What were Scott Steiner's best matches (singles, tags, etc.) before Big Poppa Pump, and when was the last time he had a great match as BPP?
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Apr 10, 2011 01:08
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:There are limits to this point. Hogan/Warrior II pretty much killed Warrior's comeback and is pointed to as one of the big turning points in WCW's good fortune. 'Good worker' doesn't just refer to the moves that a wrestler can pull off. It refers to the story that the wrestler is able to tell in the ring. Move-for-move, Hogan's a below average wrestler but he could tell a story and as such, he's a good worker. Warrior couldn't tell an in-ring story to save his life. It's no coincidence that the matches you've listed as 'good' Warrior matches involve some of wrestlings greatest storytellers. He had a brawl with Haku/Meng that was awesome, awesome. Nobody remembers it but me.
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Apr 10, 2011 01:35
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CortezFantastic posted:Does anyone what happened with Vince Russo and his short stint in WWE, I think in 2002. He rejoined the writing staff and was almost immediately released that same week. What happened? Creative almost had a mutiny and told Vince to fire him immediately
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Apr 10, 2011 02:10
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I thought there was some story that Russo wanted to get fired - like if he got fired he would get out of his old WCW contract or something? Did I imagine that? So he was intentionally offering terrible ideas. Then again, if Russo is offering up something he thinks is terrible, it likely would have been gold.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:15
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When Johnny Ace was first hired and Russo was out with a concussion he had a surprisingly awesome match with Jeff Jarrett as the main event of some random Nitro.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:16
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Kerck Pnameless posted:What were Scott Steiner's best matches (singles, tags, etc.) before Big Poppa Pump, and when was the last time he had a great match as BPP? The two best Steiner tags I can remember are Steiners v. Sting/Luger in 91 and Steiners v. Bret/Owen from 94. Steiner actually had some decent PPV main events when WCW was going down against guys like Goldberg and DDP. They probably won't blow you away, but they're a lot better than you'd expect from both Big Poppa Pump era Steiner and from a WCW main event in 2000 or 2001.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:16
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How good was Bret Hart? I know he was a great wrestler in terms of athleticism, workrate and what not; but it seems like when ever Bret Hart is mentioned, it's always in some negative light (Montreal Screwjob, Wrestlemania IX, not being used in WCW, etc.). He was the top dog in arguably the worst period for the WWF/E. I have never really seen much of Bret Hart, but I know a lot about him through PSP. I just had an odd thought today that maybe the reason he kept getting the short end of the stick is that crowds didn't care about him and the higher ups didn't have much confidence in him. That can't be right, right? How would you compare him to Triple H?
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Apr 10, 2011 02:25
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crankdatbatman posted:How good was Bret Hart? He was much better technically than HHH, and was better at telling a story in the ring. HHH is better at brawling than Bret ever was, and is a much better promo.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:27
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Bret Hart was amazing, there's a tendency nowadays to dismiss him as a "five moves of doom" guy, but he was great at telling a story in a ring and while his delivery on promos wasn't ever the best, he had a remarkable skill at conveying particular emotions which he concentrated on - usually smugness or dismissive arrogance. His Canada/USA stuff was amazing, it's what actually got me back into wrestling after a long absence, I would love to see WWE work on something again where a guy is deliberately a face in one setting and a heel in the other.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:31
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El Duke posted:The two best Steiner tags I can remember are Steiners v. Sting/Luger in 91 and Steiners v. Bret/Owen from 94. Steiner actually had some decent PPV main events when WCW was going down against guys like Goldberg and DDP. They probably won't blow you away, but they're a lot better than you'd expect from both Big Poppa Pump era Steiner and from a WCW main event in 2000 or 2001. Steiner did some terrific stuff in '91. You've got Steiners vs. Sting/Luger, like you said, but also Steiners vs. Hase/Sasaki and then an awesome WarGames to boot. crankdatbatman posted:How good was Bret Hart? Compared to Triple H? Better worker, substantially worse talker. Bret was legitimately great and inarguably significant, but probably never as significant as he thought. He gets a lot of credit for being the guy who basically proved to Vince that you don't have to be 6'3"+ and 270+ lbs. to be a credible World Champion. He reinvented himself tremendously in '97 with the Austin match, heel turn and harder edge. When he was on, he was outstanding. But he didn't have much that stood out, which led to a tendency (increasing as the '90s went on) to have trouble keeping the crowd in his matches, and when he was phoning it in, he was awful. And, yeah, he didn't inspire too much confidence from above; Vince was willing to give him the ball, but it took years before he was really willing to let him stand on his own. No main eventer's legacy is enhanced by a feud with Jean-Pierre Lafitte. In a lot of ways, Bret Hart was defined by Shawn Michaels. Shawn was even smaller than Bret, so there's a good argument that Shawn couldn't have become the star he was without Bret to blaze a trail. But there's also a good argument that Shawn was better than Bret in pretty much every way except "not being a drugged-out mess," so Bret was doing all this trail-blazing and yet constantly finding himself one-upped by HBK. Christ, Bret had a five-star classic with Owen at WrestleMania X, but thanks to Shawn, it wasn't even the best match of the night.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:46
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Honestly Bret probably had better matches in my opinion with Diesel than Shawn, but thats a close run thing, however Shawn had far better matches with Sid.
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Apr 10, 2011 02:50
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Warrior's match where he beat the dastardly HTM was super because it was the end of Honky Tonk's all-time great run, and didn't Rick Rude carry Warrior to some completely watchable matches? Saying Warrior only had two good matches isn't right.Hirams Bitch posted:Are you trying to argue that Ultimate Warrior was a better worker that Dean Malenko? By Kevin Nash's standards, Warrior was far better than Dean Malenko.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:02
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DannoMack posted:By Kevin Nash's standards, Warrior was far better than Dean Malenko. Kevin Nash's standards are dumb as hell he is dumb as hell.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:04
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Hart has also got a lot of unwarranted poo poo for being a "crybaby" because he had the audacity to undergo 8-10 awful years filled with friends and family dying to tragic causes, being betrayed by his boss, suffering a stroke, and his career prematurely ending.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:14
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DannoMack posted:Warrior's match where he beat the dastardly HTM was super because it was the end of Honky Tonk's all-time great run, and didn't Rick Rude carry Warrior to some completely watchable matches? Saying Warrior only had two good matches isn't right. Watchable isn't great. Also, Warrior had two great matches because he had two matches with Randy Savage. As far as Bret, I'll agree with most things said, but HHH doesn't blow away Bret on brawling. Bret just rarely had an occasion to brawl, but when he did, such as his series with Austin, he was pretty drat great at it. HHH might be better, but he's had a lot more opportunities to both practice it and display it. When Bret actually did have to brawl, he could definitely go. Bret was also better than Shawn at building a match to tell a story, whereas Shawn had better spots and was slightly more athletic. You can see elements of Bret's ladder match with Shawn in Shawn's match with Razor at WMX, elements of Bret's No DQ match with Diesel in Shawn's No DQ match with Diesel, elements of Austin's series with Bret in a lot of Austin's 2001 work, etc. Bret was really good when it came to laying out a match and knowing how to build a story just from what was happening in ring.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:16
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So what are some examples of a wrestler being paired with a valet (or really any man and woman being paired together for an angle) which turned into an actual relationship? Benoit and Woman is obviously one, Beulah and Tommy Dreamer too I think.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:24
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Suben posted:So what are some examples of a wrestler being paired with a valet (or really any man and woman being paired together for an angle) which turned into an actual relationship? Benoit and Woman is obviously one, Beulah and Tommy Dreamer too I think. HHH/Stephanie
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Apr 10, 2011 03:26
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HHH/Chyna
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Apr 10, 2011 03:27
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Suben posted:So what are some examples of a wrestler being paired with a valet (or really any man and woman being paired together for an angle) which turned into an actual relationship? Benoit and Woman is obviously, Beulah and Tommy Dreamer too I think. Uh, well, Triple H springs to mind. Also as far as workrate mattering to a wrestler's popularity, it matters to some extent. The lovely workrate in the WM27 main event largely killed it. As far as Warrior having workrate, literally everyone of consequence in the business is united behind the fact that Warrior was a terrible worker and a dipshit.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:27
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Suben posted:So what are some examples of a wrestler being paired with a valet (or really any man and woman being paired together for an angle) which turned into an actual relationship? Benoit and Woman is obviously one, Beulah and Tommy Dreamer too I think. Austin and Lady Blossom who was his original valet. He was married at the time and ending up pursuing something with her, marrying her and having two kids with her. And, I mean, the biggest one would obviously be Steph and HHH.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:27
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DannoMack posted:HHH/Chyna They were already together before Chyna entered the company, I believe. Didn't they train together under Killer Kowalski at some point? I think a related question - are there any examples of an off-screen couple staying together after being split up on-screen? Seems like that never ended well.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:30
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Hirams Bitch posted:They were already together before Chyna entered the company, I believe. Didn't they train together under Killer Kowalski at some point? Austin and Clark didn't split until 99, which was years after the on screen split. And I mean, technically, Nancy and Benoit never got divorced or anything... Also, again, HHH/Stephanie.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:33
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Captain Charisma posted:Hart has also got a lot of unwarranted poo poo for being a "crybaby" because he had the audacity to undergo 8-10 awful years filled with friends and family dying to tragic causes, being betrayed by his boss, suffering a stroke, and his career prematurely ending. Yeah but he didn't get over those within a couple of weeks unlike all of us watching who had no personal connection to the people involved!
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Apr 10, 2011 03:39
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Hirams Bitch posted:They were already together before Chyna entered the company, I believe. Didn't they train together under Killer Kowalski at some point? Melina and John Morrison. During her singles push and him in ECW.
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Apr 10, 2011 03:40
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Who was this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDfEURVtrlI Charlie something?
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Apr 10, 2011 03:43
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I seriously have no idea how I forgot Triple H and Stephanie. Aren't Miz and Maryse dating too after having a pseudo-storyline going on?
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Apr 10, 2011 03:45
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