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Skinty McEdger posted:The only people who don't think Chris Benoit was crazy are the people who think that Kevin Sullivan did it. personally I think Courtney Love did it.
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Apr 10, 2011 20:02
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jeffersonlives posted:Moving the hands down like an inch turns it into a choke, which was even used as a visual in a few of Benoit's matches! This is getting ghoulish, but: Try slapping a crossface onto a small person. It's probably the least efficient way to choke someone out in the first place and now it's even worse. Unless you turn into something else entirely you have poo poo for leverage. I mean even if Benoit grabs the arm there's a world of difference between the TV crossface, which is what is being strongly implied, and a supposed crossface on a child.
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Apr 10, 2011 20:04
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The question that should actually be answered is whether Benoit was or wasn't wearing a bra during the murders
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Apr 10, 2011 20:15
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Mystery Opponent posted:The question that should actually be answered is whether Benoit was or wasn't wearing a bra during the murders Markings on the chest and upper back of Benoit's body suggest he was.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:36
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MassRayPer posted:Markings on the chest and upper back of Benoit's body suggest he was. Please tell me you're kidding.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:44
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CombineThresher posted:Please tell me you're kidding. It was a sexy front-clasp number.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:46
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Added some class to it, really.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:51
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THE GAYEST POSTER posted:It was a sexy front-clasp number. Those werent clasps, they were double underhooks.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:53
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CombineThresher posted:Please tell me you're kidding. Perhaps you should read the posts before that, that cite sources on Benoit's bra-wearing habits.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:57
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Captain Charisma posted:Perhaps you should read the posts after that Just did, and thank god. That Crippler Crossface stuff temporarily broke my sarcasm detector, so I wasn't sure what was what for a minute there.
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Apr 10, 2011 21:58
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CombineThresher posted:Just did, and thank god. That Crippler Crossface stuff temporarily broke my sarcasm detector, so I wasn't sure what was what for a minute there. Guess I shouldn't have changed the style of my post, it worked as is
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Apr 10, 2011 22:03
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MassRayPer posted:Markings on the chest and upper back of Benoit's body suggest he was. After reading Sears Catalog, police came to the conclusion that there was no other explanation for Benoit's markings 
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Apr 10, 2011 22:59
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Timby posted:I don't know what you're talking about. As soon as they autopsied his brain, just about everyone has said, "Holy poo poo, he was absolutely out of his gourd and it was a matter of when, not if, he snapped." I haven't seen anyone say, "Boy, you know, I just can't figure out what made Benoit do that." A lot of people on this board have demonized Benoit for what he did, and refuse to separate the man and worker from what he did during his break from sanity, which I think is probably not the most even-minded reaction. A lot of the time, people say, "He snapped!" and their wording and argument makes it seem like they are relating Benoit's psychotic break with a guy at a bar with poor anger management who suddenly punches someone in the face for saying something crass (not saying you are doing this, at all. But that is what I see happen on this place a lot). Very little apparent effort is put into thinking about a very well-respected, overall nice guy over the course of several months getting to a state where he thinks killing his wife and child and himself is the absolutely necessary thing to do. It shows a lack of understanding of sanity, and our very tenuous grasp on it a lot of the time. Case in point--the best Wrestler survivor contest thing we had a few months back.
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Apr 11, 2011 00:24
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Captain Magic posted:A lot of people on this board have demonized Benoit for what he did, and refuse to separate the man and worker from what he did during his break from sanity, which I think is probably not the most even-minded reaction. See, I do understand that this wasn't just a binary switch, it was a massive shitstorm of factors, some of which were in Benoit's control (the drugs, the concussions), some of which weren't (any predisposition to psychological problems, Eddie and co's passing, general stress) that came to a head. And I can even feel some level of sympathy for the man as a result. But, rational or not, it's nearly impossible for me to consider watching a match with him in it, even if it used to be one of my favourites, because my mind makes the connection between seeing the man in the ring and what his ultimate end was. If you can, I'm happy for you, that's a ton of great wrestling you can still enjoy (although even if I could make the distinction, I don't know how I'd feel about watching him do those headbutt spots or take chair shots). The resistance to Benoit as a performer after his death and crime isn't a logical thing, it's a visceral one.
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Apr 11, 2011 00:34
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Gaz-L posted:See, I do understand that this wasn't just a binary switch, it was a massive shitstorm of factors, some of which were in Benoit's control (the drugs, the concussions), some of which weren't (any predisposition to psychological problems, Eddie and co's passing, general stress) that came to a head. And I can even feel some level of sympathy for the man as a result. But, rational or not, it's nearly impossible for me to consider watching a match with him in it, even if it used to be one of my favourites, because my mind makes the connection between seeing the man in the ring and what his ultimate end was. If you can, I'm happy for you, that's a ton of great wrestling you can still enjoy (although even if I could make the distinction, I don't know how I'd feel about watching him do those headbutt spots or take chair shots). The resistance to Benoit as a performer after his death and crime isn't a logical thing, it's a visceral one. This is a totally understandable reaction. For whatever reason, I have a similar problem watching Misawa matches now (in addition to any super-stiff puro). Benoit doesn't bother me as much, maybe because he didn't actually die in the ring doing what he did. But there's a far cry from saying, "He killed his family while insane, and that makes me dislike watching his matches because it's difficult for me to make the separation," and "He killed his family while insane, and everything he's done should be hated." I see the latter more often than not.
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Apr 11, 2011 00:39
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Are there any free wrestling editorial columns that aren't  ? Wrestlezone is such poo poo.
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Apr 11, 2011 04:07
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http://www.rspwfaq.com has great reviews of shows, and opinions on wrestling news, as well as some UFC. However, I can only vouch for stuff written by Scott Keith. http://wrestling.insidepulse.com and http://www.411mania.com/wrestling aren't bad. 411 has a lot of the underline-direct link poo poo, though. I'd like to know what happened to Eric Szulczewski, though.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:29
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Red posted:http://www.rspwfaq.com has great reviews of shows, and opinions on wrestling news, as well as some UFC. However, I can only vouch for stuff written by Scott Keith. I would not classify anything Scott Keith has ever written as "great." Red posted:I'd like to know what happened to Eric Szulczewski, though. Last I heard he went back to his day job as a meat inspector.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:32
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The only thing worst than Scott Keith's reviews of wrestling these days is Scott Keith's reviews of MMA.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:34
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MassRayPer posted:The only thing worst than Scott Keith's reviews of wrestling these days is Scott Keith's reviews of MMA. Does Scott Keith even watch or review new wrestling anymore? He didn't even watch Wrestlemania. He was always terrible, but at least he was so prolific that he seemed to know a lot and have an opinion on everything. At least there was enough information and consistency you could adjust his opinion knowing he liked/disliked certain workers or styles. Every time I visit his site these days I get more and more irritated. Nine out of ten articles on a page are written by guests, the one Keith contribution is either non-wrestling-related or so out of touch as to be completely useless.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:36
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MassRayPer posted:The only thing worst than Scott Keith's reviews of wrestling these days is Scott Keith's reviews of MMA. And the only thing fatter than Scott Keith is his wife! 
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Apr 11, 2011 06:37
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I should also note that while writing that post I thought I meant to type "worse" but typed worst once, then once again while trying to correct my typo. I then realized that was a better word choice.
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Apr 11, 2011 06:50
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AKMoose posted:Every time I visit his site these days I get more and more irritated. Nine out of ten articles on a page are written by guests Not only that, but they all try to sound like Scott Keith and they're all worse than he is.
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Apr 11, 2011 07:05
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Huh. I had no idea goons disliked Scott Keith. Is it because of the turkey neck? I always liked him because he was funny, knew a lot about wrestling in general, and generally favored the wrestlers I liked (Bret, Benoit, Jericho, and so on). His actual play-by-plays were pretty whatever, but I usually agreed with his star ratings, except for occasions where he went over the top with his favorites (IYH: Canadian Stampede, for example). He pretty much quit on weekly reviews of WWE when they put the belt on JBL, but has still maintained reviews of monthly pay-per-views, except for the occasional show. I don't follow the UFC or MMA at all, so I'm kind of in the dark there.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:48
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Humor is subjective, but he doesn't really know poo poo about wrestling in general. His Benoit book is some of the most atrocious stuff ever put on paper and sold in stores. He gets basic facts wrong, gets the timeline wrong in hilarious ways and is just an idiot. All of his books are this way. He's just awful when it comes to knowing anything about wrestling. If you like his humor and opinions, fine. But the guy has no clue about the history and present of professional wrestling.
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Apr 11, 2011 08:54
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I've never even glanced at his books (why would anyone? all his stuff is online for free), but heard about the ridiculous errors, and chalked it up to publisher editing. RSPWFAQ.com used to be unreadable until they assigned each of the writers an actual account - every post was by labeled as being by Scott, whether it was or not (it usually wasn't).
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Apr 11, 2011 09:01
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Captain Magic posted:A lot of people on this board have demonized Benoit for what he did, and refuse to separate the man and worker from what he did during his break from sanity, which I think is probably not the most even-minded reaction. Anyone who has experienced or has spent significant time around someone suffering from either psychosis or dementia knows just how far removed from reality they can become, I can only imagine the effect of a combination of both. Once again what puzzles me was that he was able to get that state without anyone noticing something was severely wrong.
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Apr 11, 2011 09:43
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Scott Keith massively fell out of fashion at some point and his now reviled for his clone army and mocked for his hastily knocked out ill cited cash-in books. Before he started playing up to his e-fame he used to be okay but biased on certain Canadian people, that was well over a decade ago.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:04
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Sue Denim posted:Once again what puzzles me was that he was able to get that state without anyone noticing something was severely wrong. The important issues seem to be that people did notice but no one thought much of it and Benoit didn't have a drastic personality change. By most accounts of the guy I've heard since wrestlers all seem to imply the same thing. He might have gotten worse in the last few years and become more paranoid and secretive and emotional, but people were willing to chalk that up to age or normal changes or the loss of Eddie. He was always tightly wound, secretive, and violent so it wasn't like one day a super nice guy became a bubbling monster. A guy who seemed kind of crazy most of his career just took those last steps into full blown crazy. People didn't "notice" because they weren't looking and were used to dismissing it. See, I understand people who want to say that Benoit wasn't in his right mind and obviously he wasn't. Where I disagree with these people is when they seem to want to make it like a switch just flipped and he became a new man one day. By all accounts that's not what happened. Benoit just gradually went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. He was clearly out of his mind when he killed his family but he was probably there for months or years before that. Maybe one final thing snapped that weekend that led to those actions but for the most part that was the man Benoit had become thanks to the life he had lived. Its tragic and it should teach us lessons but its not much of an excuse to me.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:20
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I had considered all of this and you're right his personality would have made it hard to notice major changes and probably would have seemed to be just acting a bit more eccentric than usual. When people have dementia usually the best sign is that they seem very distant and withdrawn but I guess with the death of Guerrero recently those signs would have just been chalked up to an effect of the loss.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:37
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Red posted:http://www.rspwfaq.com has great reviews of shows, and opinions on wrestling news, as well as some UFC. However, I can only vouch for stuff written by Scott Keith. I used to read Inside Pulse, but one of the guys that wrote there decided to describe something as crap as "Bruce Springsteen's lyrics." At that point I realized that everything is subjective and I didn't like that guy. And then they didn't cover a ROH PPV and that was it. Game over man, game over. Rant finished.  I guess my point is that Wrestling has to entail more than just "WWE and TNA" and not to insult the Boss. 
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Apr 11, 2011 10:42
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Scott Keith was one of probably fifty people writing tape reviews and passing along newsbits from the hotlines and newsletters on RSPW in the mid-late 90s. He was not one of the better people doing that, but he wrote a lot of reviews and had a pretty impressive collection of US/Canadian tapes so he had some cachet within that community and ended up maintaining the FAQ for awhile. As the internet grew, these people from RSPW started branching out and forming the earlier pro wrestling sites. Eventually (this would be 99ish) CBS Sportsline, which at the time was the biggest sports site, started a wrestling site called Wrestleline. This was at the height of wrestling's popularity when mainstream media didn't ignore its existence. CBS Sportsline hired a bunch of these internet wrestling writers to produce content, one of whom was Scott Keith. Eventually CBS decided pro wrestling wasn't actually a sport or worth covering, and there's a complicated history that connects that Wrestleline site to places like 411 and Inside Pulse. Keith somehow got a book deal out of being a CBS Sportsline featured writer, though. The problem was that he was neither all that good of a writer nor all that good of a historian, which could be hidden to a degree writing a page or two of match reviews but not so much in hundreds of pages for a book. Keith, and really the entire cottage industry of newsboards and match reviews and such, became really, really irrelevant when the newsletters and hotlines all started their own sites in the early-aughts. And more troubling for the direct point, as MRP pointed out a lot of what Keith has written both online and in the books is just factually inaccurate, and his opinions are basically watered down consensus.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:45
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Red, I feel pretty much the way you do. I liked the same wrestlers he did and enjoyed his reviews however I think I preferred when he had the smarks site with Eric S, Hyatte, Scotsman(though I could be connecting that a scotmanality due to hazy memories from that time) and those brothers who looked like they were from Jersey Shore from Floria(cannot for the life of me remember their names) It was a case of who was more entertaining at the time, being a student I could not afford a subscription to the torch, 1wrestling etc so thy had the best coverage of serious recaps and humor. CRZ of whatever his name was never appealed to me as the reviews were just too large and DVD boards were too spergy for my liking at the time. I do miss those guys writing(smarks) quite a bit irregardless of their obsession with certain women, Trish for Hyatte and Stacy for Eric. Or their lack of knowledge like Keith. I am probably in the minority but I suppose it's much like the era itself with rose tinted glasses as that what I grew up with.
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Apr 11, 2011 10:58
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I made this a long time ago. I stole the gif, and the song. Apparently, this is linked in places I never expected: http://skeith.ytmnd.com I'm sorry. I love you.
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Apr 11, 2011 11:04
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Red posted:I've never even glanced at his books (why would anyone? all his stuff is online for free), but heard about the ridiculous errors, and chalked it up to publisher editing. "Hey, Scott, bro! This is a pretty good, accurate book!" "Yeah, thanks." "But we're gonna need to edit it so that it's wildly inaccurate." "What? Why?" "See, I got a bet with that cute guy down in public relations that I can edit this into something so inaccurate that it loops around and becomes truth, changing the very fabric of reality."
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Apr 11, 2011 11:49
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Endorph posted:... What? Yeah, not quite. When I heard it had errors, I assumed the editors did things like "Rick Flare". It wasn't until recently I heard about the timeline things.
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Apr 11, 2011 12:17
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Red posted:I assumed the editors did things like "Rick Flare". Editors don't do that. Writers who can't spell do that and editors who don't give a poo poo ignore it.
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Apr 11, 2011 12:57
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STAC Goat posted:See, I understand people who want to say that Benoit wasn't in his right mind and obviously he wasn't. Where I disagree with these people is when they seem to want to make it like a switch just flipped and he became a new man one day. By all accounts that's not what happened. Benoit just gradually went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. He was clearly out of his mind when he killed his family but he was probably there for months or years before that. Maybe one final thing snapped that weekend that led to those actions but for the most part that was the man Benoit had become thanks to the life he had lived. Its tragic and it should teach us lessons but its not much of an excuse to me. If utterly losing your grip on sanity is not an excuse for deplorable action, then nothing ever could or will be. One way or the other, I think it's important that you know that's the argument you're pushing forward with your last few sentences.
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Apr 11, 2011 15:20
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I don't listen to Scott Keith because fat people always lie.
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Apr 11, 2011 15:37
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I'm full of wrestling questions today, stemming from a nerdy chat Can a comedy wrestler have success without going serious? Colt Cabana seems to be the only success I can think of which sucks for wrestlers like Colin Delaney who I think is great Who was the last masked wwe/wwf champ before Rey Mysterio? Does having a mask hold you back? Reading that HBK couldnt mention Vince in his speech at the HOF in the dirtsheets, is vince starting to phase himself out the company in a on-screen role? I actually cant think of when we last saw him. What is the quickest debut to world champion run in wwe history? What shape is Taker in at this point? I hear lots of guesswork but is he really as banged up as people say?
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Apr 11, 2011 16:54
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