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Well according to Dave Lagana, WWE Creative is only there to give ideas so that Vince and Stephanie's ideas don't seem so insane. Although you do get angles like Katie Vick and Al Wilson that were Vince's insane creations. I am just tired of hearing how the creative team is to blame for the decline in WWE's product. It all has to get approved by the McMahon family regardless of what you may believe.
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Apr 29, 2011 20:04
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RCRx2005 posted:Well according to Dave Lagana, WWE Creative is only there to give ideas so that Vince and Stephanie's ideas don't seem so insane. Although you do get angles like Katie Vick and Al Wilson that were Vince's insane creations. I think most of us lump Vince and Steph into WWE Creative and we've also heard stuff like Steve Corino explaining how some woman kept yelling at him that it wasn't pro wrestling and how she writes everything Batista says. You also have to remember that Dave Lagana is not going to make himself look bad when he no longer works for the WWE and has a soapbox to make himself look good, unless I missed Lagana talking about the terrible booking ideas he's pitched.
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Apr 29, 2011 20:19
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Lone Rogue posted:You also have to remember that Dave Lagana is not going to make himself look bad when he no longer works for the WWE and has a soapbox to make himself look good, unless I missed Lagana talking about the terrible booking ideas he's pitched. Didn't Lagana get let go because Steph caught him talking to the sheets? All agendas aside, I think Formerly Creative paints a fair picture of the WWE as a company: Vince hires people who either can't work with others (Hayes, Dusty) or have no business writing wrestling TV (everyone else), and then makes their ideas even worse by not understanding pop culture past 2002.
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Apr 29, 2011 21:14
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Lone Rogue posted:Hogan's a piece of poo poo but I think people are misquoting that one. Oh well. I mean. Whatcha gonna do?
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Apr 29, 2011 21:15
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CombineThresher posted:Didn't Lagana get let go because Steph caught him talking to the sheets? That's one rumor. The other is that he got caught by Kevin Thorn, talking about Kevin Thorn putting his penis in his mouth. Lagana's mouth, I mean.
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Apr 29, 2011 21:50
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Chinston Wurchill posted:The other is that he got caught by Kevin Thorn, talking about Kevin Thorn putting his penis in his mouth. Lagana's mouth, I mean. Pro wrestling: the  est thing.
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Apr 29, 2011 22:07
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CombineThresher posted:Didn't Lagana get let go because Steph caught him talking to the sheets? Lagana doesn't really ever come across as someone who holds ill-will towards the WWE, Vince or anyone there really. Just more that the process is practically 24/7 and your life becomes WWE and it can just completely wear you down, no matter how big a fan you are going in. And the general sentiment and stories are consistent across pretty much all the interviews with guys who worked in different time periods. It's a time/life consuming job and Vince is a weird guy who will tell you one day that he thinks this segment sounds great and then the next will say that you've just filmed the worst segment he's ever seen on his programming. And that he changes his mind on stuff five thousand times leading up to, and even during, a show. Chris DeJoseph (Big Dick Johnson) talks about how during one Smackdown Vince was having them rewrite the show as it was going on to the point where they had to deliver a promo for Edge and Vickie to them literally moments before they were supposed to go out.
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Apr 29, 2011 22:18
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Lone Rogue posted:I guess the rumour was that Hogan pissed off Andre like a month before the match and Andre made a comment about, "Things don't have to go the way they are supposed to go, boss" and it cleaned Hogan's ego right up. For a little while. Bobby Heenan had a great quote about Hogan and Andre's relationship that was essentially "everyone else knew that without Hogan to work off they couldn't be a draw. Andre knew every time he woke up and got out of bed he was a draw, Hogan didn't come into it."
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Apr 29, 2011 22:27
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Skinty McEdger posted:Bobby Heenan had a great quote about Hogan and Andre's relationship that was essentially "everyone else knew that without Hogan to work off they couldn't be a draw. Andre knew every time he woke up and got out of bed he was a draw, Hogan didn't come into it." It's interesting to me that Austin and Rock never had this relationship. It doesn't seem like Orton and Cena have it either.
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Apr 29, 2011 22:42
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Seymour Buttz posted:So you stop the guy from rolling out. It's not that easy to just leave the ring when someone is kicking your rear end. I don't know man I just think it sounds stupid. If you can't quite get to the floor just grab the rope, they have to break, then you can just immediately roll out since they have to break and let you up.
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Apr 29, 2011 23:18
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Lone Rogue posted:It's interesting to me that Austin and Rock never had this relationship. It doesn't seem like Orton and Cena have it either. And I believe that’s a great thing and a key to why the Attitude ERA lasted as long as it did. The biggest draws were accepting of teamwork and put aside their ego and agendas. In Austin & Rock you really had 2 guys at once who could carry the franchise without politicking destroying the product. CombineThresher posted:All agendas aside, I think Formerly Creative paints a fair picture of the WWE as a company: Vince hires people who either can't work with others (Hayes, Dusty) or have no business writing wrestling TV (everyone else), and then makes their ideas even worse by not understanding pop culture past 2002. That is an excellent summation and I think it also assists when looking at the thread titled ‘Does professional wrestling have a social responsibility?’ http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3391605&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=8
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Apr 30, 2011 02:13
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I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask
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Apr 30, 2011 04:10
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Dickeye posted:I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask There's two examples of it on Alex Wright with Paul Roma and Hacksaw Jim Duggan, but my favourite is Bruiser Brody deciding he wanted to kill Lex Luger in a cage match, which caused Luger to show he isn't an idiot and run away.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:13
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Dickeye posted:I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask IIRC Jeff Jarrett's contract ran out like a night before he was supposed to lose his IC title and he held Vince up for a lot of money.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:22
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Dickeye posted:I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask Dickeye, you make all of us feel like badasses by allowing us to flaunt our knowledge in this thread. Keep them coming. A long, long time ago, in 1908 I believe, Frank Gotch faced off with then champ George Hackenschmidt in what was in many ways the progenitor of professional wrestling. A 2 out of 3 falls match, it was initially agreed Gotch and Hackenschmidt would split falls before Gotch took the final fall. Instead, Gotch went in a beat him in 2 straight falls, turning the work into one of the last true shoots on the grand scale.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:29
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:Dickeye, you make all of us feel like badasses by allowing us to flaunt our knowledge in this thread. Keep them coming. My options for asking questions are either here, or a thread on another forum, where I was told to come back once I had knew all about Japanese indy stuff, so no problem. Like I said, I'm learning a lot from this thread, between new responses and working my way through 400 pages of old ones. It's like a crash course in wrestling (Attitude Era marathon is a crash course in "sports entertainment" that doesn't suck.)
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Apr 30, 2011 04:34
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Dickeye posted:My options for asking questions are either here, or a thread on another forum, where I was told to come back once I had knew all about Japanese indy stuff, so no problem. Hey, watch every Daisuke Sekimoto match. Especially: Sekimoto vs Kota Ibushi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0IGjcNzAr0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97eAr3r4yio Sekimoto vs Masa Takanashi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRfiZBnh5EY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrA5o0MMAM0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmwwvaqueAA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSFhdFh0eEU Excellent. Please watch these matches and explain what you have learned. Write at least a 500 word essay on why Daisuke Sekimoto is a superior wrestler to every other wrestler of all time period. Thank you.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:43
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Buddy of mine linked me a youtube of that Muta match where he rips his opponent's mask off, and the guy does a character change literally midmatch, and it ruled, does that count?
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Apr 30, 2011 04:45
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Dickeye posted:Buddy of mine linked me a youtube of that Muta match where he rips his opponent's mask off, and the guy does a character change literally midmatch, and it ruled, does that count? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us1GTlbWgIU Liger basically goes apeshit. Fantastic match. I don't see how it wouldn't count.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:51
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That Sekimoto/Ibushi match is great partly (mostly) because Ibushi sells every hit like it was real. Also, my favorite part of that Muta/Liger match is when Liger leans back and roars (right after spitting on Muta) and he looks like Gene Simmons on PCP.
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Apr 30, 2011 04:54
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I kinda hated that ending.
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Apr 30, 2011 05:26
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Lone Rogue posted:It's interesting to me that Austin and Rock never had this relationship. It doesn't seem like Orton and Cena have it either. Austin and Rock became huge megastars during the same time period though, as did Orton and Cena. Andre was already established as an international draw before Hogan really came on the scene, so their relationship would have to be different.
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Apr 30, 2011 05:32
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:Well, there were fuckload more people than that. Basically this, 
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Apr 30, 2011 05:47
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Lone Rogue posted:I kinda hated that ending. The Muta/Liger one? I took it as you can't out Muta, the Great Muta. Which I think there were actual feuds about. Where either Mutoh would be taken out by a Muta Copycat, and then awhile later Muta would come back and dismantle the Muta Copycat.
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Apr 30, 2011 05:51
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Grant DaNasty posted:Basically this, You forgot the FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY SEVEN MILLION SCREAMING HULKAMANIACS BROTHER!
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Apr 30, 2011 05:52
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KungFu Grip posted:The Muta/Liger one? I took it as you can't out Muta, the Great Muta. Which I think there were actual feuds about. Where either Mutoh would be taken out by a Muta Copycat, and then awhile later Muta would come back and dismantle the Muta Copycat. I got that. It's just the visual of Liger going apeshit and turning into an oni was so loving amazing that Muta making a comeback just had no magic to me.
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Apr 30, 2011 06:05
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Lone Rogue posted:I got that. It's just the visual of Liger going apeshit and turning into an oni was so loving amazing that Muta making a comeback just had no magic to me. yeah I completely agree but at the same time, Liger going insane was really loving cool, I had never seen that match before. thanks for posting
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Apr 30, 2011 06:43
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Dickeye posted:I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask Juventud tried to force a pin on Kid Kash in one of his final matches with WWE.
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Apr 30, 2011 08:18
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Sting forced a pin on Jeff Hardy. 
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Apr 30, 2011 08:42
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Dickeye posted:That Sekimoto/Ibushi match is great partly (mostly) because Ibushi sells every hit like it was real.  The debut of Kishin Liger is one of the greatest moments in wrestling history
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Apr 30, 2011 09:48
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Dickeye posted:I watched Wrestling With Shadows the other day and it got me wondering: Obviously management screwing over a wrestler has happened, has a wrestler ever gone "screw this" and hosed up the script to win? It doesn't seem like it would ever happen, because A) how could it when the ref is listening to management and B) they'd get fired, but I thought I'd ask From Wikipedia: "In one of his final WWF appearances, Sammartino was involved in a confusing and controversial finish at the Philadelphia Spectrum on November 22, 1985, quickly submitting to a bear hug by preliminary wrestler Ron Shaw in a match Sammartino is believed to have been booked to win. The alleged changing of the finish by Sammartino (Shaw and the referee apparently were caught by surprise) has caused this to be known as the "Phantom Submission Match." I mean, I guess he didn't win but he threw the match because he knew he was on the way out. Sort of the same thing, right? Uhhlive fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Apr 30, 2011 |
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Apr 30, 2011 09:49
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Ask Me For Warez posted:From Wikipedia: Why didn't they capitalize on it and make Ron Shaw a star?
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Apr 30, 2011 15:32
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Perigryn posted:
Looks like an asian sting
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Apr 30, 2011 16:30
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Lone Rogue posted:Why didn't they capitalize on it and make Ron Shaw a star? Because he was Ron Shaw.
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Apr 30, 2011 16:31
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CombineThresher posted:Because he was Ron Shaw. But he's the man who made Bruno submit to a bearhug! RON SHAW IS A LEGEND KILLER
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Apr 30, 2011 17:11
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The Berzerker posted:This rule is stupid and is the heat-killer to me. Why would any idiot bother trying to stretch out to his partner for a tag when he can just roll to the floor in a heap and let the fresh guy start working? Different strokes for different folks. I've seen Dragon Gate matches with it working really well, and CMLL matches with it working terribly. Speaking of this: Why are the 2/3 falls with team captains "Australian Rules". There better be some hell awesome Kayfabe reason involving a masked wrestling kangaroo named "El Skippy."
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Apr 30, 2011 17:17
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Perigryn posted:
too bad muta still went over
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Apr 30, 2011 18:04
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I am uneducated about most puro things. Out of curiousity, are there some people over in Japan that had a run like 2004 HHH or 2003 Jarrett where they would make everyone else look like chumps and devote large portions of a show to themselves due to creative control? Or does that not happen in GLORIOUS NIPPON?
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Apr 30, 2011 18:29
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Matlock posted:too bad muta still went over Tell me about it. If Muta got the poo poo kicked out of him for a few minutes and pinned without any offense, it would have been even more of an "Oh poo poo, everything's changed" moment in wrestling.
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Apr 30, 2011 18:41
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projecthalaxy posted:I am uneducated about most puro things. Out of curiousity, are there some people over in Japan that had a run like 2004 HHH or 2003 Jarrett where they would make everyone else look like chumps and devote large portions of a show to themselves due to creative control? Or does that not happen in GLORIOUS NIPPON? Liger did something like this. He turned heel, booked himself to beat every single Jr. Heavyweight in the company, won the IWGP Jr. Title, and then challenged THEN-current IWGP champion Kensuke Sasaki. A lot of people thought he'd go over for that title, too, but Sasaki beat him in less than 10 minutes.
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Apr 30, 2011 18:53
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