|
Calcaneus posted:So I'm a Computer Science undergrad student, is ABET accreditation a big deal for CS? Because apparently my school's program doesn't have it. I've never heard anyone reference it directly except when the accreditation board did a review of my school (Iowa State) and I was on a student board they were interviewing. I'd be a little wary of a program that wasn't accredited by some standards body; they could be calling "Making Webpages with ASP.NET" "computer science" and no one would be the wiser. Are you sure they aren't accredited?
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2011 16:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 20:32 |
|
|
Calcaneus posted:So I'm a Computer Science undergrad student, is ABET accreditation a big deal for CS? Because apparently my school's program doesn't have it. Doing a quick search on http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/AccreditationSearch.aspx shows that my undergrad CS program is not ABET accredited, nor is CMU's, I don't know much about it but it seems like more of an engineering program thing than a CS program thing. For example CMU has it for its "Electrical and Computer Engineering" program, but not for computer science. It took a while to find a school that had a program named "Computer Science" accredited by ABET, the first I found was by randomly clicking on Clemson. shrughes fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 26, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2011 16:48
|
|
|
shrughes posted:Doing a quick search on http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/AccreditationSearch.aspx shows that my undergrad CS program is not ABET accredited, nor is CMU's, I don't know much about it but it seems like more of an engineering program thing than a CS program thing. For example CMU has it for its "Electrical and Computer Engineering" program, but not for computer science. This is possible, though ISU's computer science program (at the time I was going there) was a nearly pure math degree and not even part of the engineering college. e - and it is listed on that search as "computer science" if you search for iowa state.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2011 16:52
|
|
|
Everywhere I've asked, I've been told that ABET accreditation is pretty much meaningless for CS. I wouldn't worry about it. I was worried about this, too, when I found out my school isn't accredited, but apparently it's pretty common? Or at least, not uncommon. Honestly, ABET accrediting CS programs makes just as much sense to me as ABET accrediting biology, math, or philosophy programs. I feel like they do it just because some schools treat CS like software engineering. Am I way off?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2011 20:35
|
|
|
It's meaningless in the sense that ABET only started accrediting CS programs within the last 5-6 years, so it's not a big deal. That said, there are a fair number of US government jobs that have on the requirements line "engineer" and in that case, ABET accreditation is the metric they use for that. Those jobs aren't bad aside from the fact that you're not making anything, instead doing project management.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2011 03:47
|
|
|
Please excuse me if I made this all up but I swear that a few times in the thread, people have posted sites that give you little coding problems to work though for practice. Assuming that these sites really exist could someone give me a couple of links?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 02:13
|
|
|
HondaCivet posted:Please excuse me if I made this all up but I swear that a few times in the thread, people have posted sites that give you little coding problems to work though for practice. Assuming that these sites really exist could someone give me a couple of links? Project Euler Google Code Jam Practice Problems
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 02:17
|
|
|
Also TopCoder. Annoying interface but you'll never run out of problems there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 02:18
|
|
|
There's Codility where you can certify yourself by doing several problems (for whatever that's worth). Facebook's career site has Engineering Puzzles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 03:58
|
|
|
I asked some of this stuff in a thread in BFC but I feel like I might get more detailed advice here. I'm currently getting a degree in CS, and when I graduate I want to go into web programming. In my CS degree I've been at two different universities since the first one was incredibly expensive and I wasn't happy at it at all (now I'm at a new one that's a third of the tuition and much better for me). I've mostly done C/C++ programming, but in other classes I've done a little bit of Java and Python, and even took a one-month class on iOS programming. There's not a lot of web programming classes offered, however. I learned HTML/CSS in high school and don't have many issues with it. I took a class at my old university that was a class consisting of me and four other people, in which we built a website for a local charity group. It was cool in that I got experience talking to a client, finding out what they wanted and delivering a product they were really happy with. However it was a pretty simple site so it didn't add a lot to my technical skills (still a great experience). At my new university, I just took a class on web programming that ended up more or less being a self study class that was well below my level. I had learned a good chunk of PHP and MYSQL the summer before the class and the class ended up being pretty easy. I did however use the free time I had from finishing assignments early to work on a personal project, which is a pretty good sized (programming-wise) website that more or less encompasses everything I know about PHP and MYSQL so far, plus some things that I'm still learning just to get the site to do what I want it to. My main questions that I want to ask from you guys who interview for these positions or have been through interviews is what are the steps I need to take between now and graduation (which will be roughly another year and a half starting in September, depending on how quickly I can get in my last remaining required classes)? Should I be trying to familiarize myself with as many different languages as possible, seeing as how I am only really familiar with PHP + MYSQL, or should I focus on just improving at the one I do know and expect to learn anything else on the job? How do these interviews differ from the regular programming interviews I've already read about in this thread (or do they differ at all)? Do web programming jobs typically have you do whiteboard coding like with regular programming jobs? I'm really interested in any advice at all on this. I've got over a year before I start interviewing for jobs and I want to be in the best position possible to get one!
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 20:02
|
|
|
GidgetNomates posted:blah web programming blah my career what should i do Trying to familiarize yourself with as many languages as possible is not a good idea because you won't learn much, you'll have useless surface knowledge of a whole bunch of things that would take a few days to pick up if you needed to do a real project in such a language. Trying to familiarize yourself with one particular language and maybe one particular database engine is not a good idea, because that information will go down the tubes if you end up getting a job where you deal with some other language or technology. Also, what you do will be within a personal echo chamber, which is inefficient compared to the amount of learning you do at your first job. What won't go down the tubes, however, is general CS knowledge, and the general software design experience that you get from working on projects. Plus there's the benefit of having some actual code you have written being something you can point to on your resume. So if you want to engage in targeted self-improvement, I suggest going for something interesting and challenging that involves writing useful code and is something you like working on. Do something that requires learning something new, where that something is not an API but rather a "how to do things" sort of thing that is independent of an API. For example (this is just an example, not a suggestion), making a 3D game doesn't benefit you by teaching you about OpenGL, it benefits you by giving you experience with the software design situations you get when doing stuff that involves 3D graphics. (Of course there is still the benefit of some experience with OpenGL, but that's not the main thing.) What I am basically saying is, you shouldn't spend the next 1.5 years making database-backed websites over and over again. Also, don't worry so much about interviews. They're not something you can really study for, and they're not actually hard. You don't have problems reversing a string, do you? How about printing the elements of a tree, in order? You're familiar with trees, right, since that's what web programmers deal with all the time, right? People hiring you out of college aren't going to expect deep answers about software engineering, either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2011 22:42
|
|
|
GidgetNomates posted:Should I be trying to familiarize myself with as many different languages as possible, seeing as how I am only really familiar with PHP + MYSQL, or should I focus on just improving at the one I do know and expect to learn anything else on the job? quote:How do these interviews differ from the regular programming interviews I've already read about in this thread (or do they differ at all)? quote:Do web programming jobs typically have you do whiteboard coding like with regular programming jobs? quote:I'm really interested in any advice at all on this. I've got over a year before I start interviewing for jobs and I want to be in the best position possible to get one! I would also take a look at jobs you would apply for now if you had graduated and look at the languages they're using, the skills they need and then just work on them. So for example if you looked at Silicon Valley jobs you might think "well gee, I better make sure I know Ruby, Rails and jQuery" but if you prefer your local job market you might find it's all PHP, .NET and Java positions. Div fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Jul 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2011 11:37
|
|
|
I've just graduated with a CS degree from a decent school and started my job search. There's plenty of advice for how to handle general interviews and how to spruce up my resume, but I'm really naive when it comes to things I might need to look out for. For example, how do I handle recruiters? Are there certain companies I should avoid offers from? What are warning signs that a company is crappy or exploitative?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2011 12:22
|
|
|
Dire Penguin posted:I've just graduated with a CS degree from a decent school and started my job search. There's plenty of advice for how to handle general interviews and how to spruce up my resume, but I'm really naive when it comes to things I might need to look out for. For example, how do I handle recruiters? Are there certain companies I should avoid offers from? What are warning signs that a company is crappy or exploitative? Re: recruiters -- I've never been able to tell a really snaky one from an average one. At most they ask you to self assess skills on a 1-5 scale and pass those figures on to the companies they're recruiting for. The best you can do to try to gauge the quality of the company is to poke around the web for their presence. Some small companies won't have a great website but will make up for it with a reasonable (if maybe niche) business model. You will probably tell the most from an onsite interview, though, so just be on the lookout when it gets to that stage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2011 12:54
|
|
|
Dire Penguin posted:I've just graduated with a CS degree from a decent school and started my job search. There's plenty of advice for how to handle general interviews and how to spruce up my resume, but I'm really naive when it comes to things I might need to look out for. For example, how do I handle recruiters? Are there certain companies I should avoid offers from? What are warning signs that a company is crappy or exploitative? As for companies themselves, there is a "Joel Test" of 12 questions you are supposed to ask to verify that they have good technical standards/leadership: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html Personally I don't find all of those equally important, but it's hard to figure out what is important to you until you've worked in the industry. As for exploitative companies, there is a simple question you can ask: How does the team handle deadlines? Anything at all that suggests late nights or weekends is a guarantee that you have a leader/manager who would rather ask you to give up your time than go up the chain and say "I overshot my estimate" or "I hosed up." Do not work for these people. I can not stress it enough. Some companies will disguise it with cute, geek-friendly perks - we have a fridge full of beer! Free catering around the clock! We have a games room for you guys to rock out on Rock Band! But it's all just ways to keep you in the office longer. Before someone jumps on this: it's perfectly fine to be so wrapped up in a problem and still be in the office into the late hours, but it should be your choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2011 13:10
|
|
|
Can someone start a thread called "Newbie Programming Jobs Megathread: How do I ask for a raise?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 20:40
|
|
|
^^^ I need advice about asking for a significant raise. I have a student term position ending very soon, and am expecting to be sat down to discuss whether I'd be interested in a fulltime position any day now. I am somewhat interested in staying only if I get a fairly significant pay raise since I'm not really working on the types of projects I've been developing myself for... basically they think of themselves as a tech company but... aren't really as much as an advertising/media company. How do I verbalize this without sounding dickish and/or putting them on the defensive? I'm being paid decently for a student, but I am worth more... I have several other offers for work... but telling people this seems dickish. How can I present my case reasonably? Have a baby on the way in a few months and my days of messing around for 'experience' are behind me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 20:48
|
|
|
A MIRACLE posted:Can someone start a thread called "Newbie Programming Jobs Megathread: How do I ask for a raise?" Pweller posted:I have several other offers for work... but telling people this seems dickish. Standish fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 14, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 20:57
|
|
|
Standish posted:You don't ask for a raise, you ask for a "performance review". Okay. I'm getting super uncomfortable since they're grooming me for stuff... this would be so much easier if everyone had agents or whatever as mediators.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 21:17
|
|
|
Standish posted:You don't ask for a raise, you ask for a "performance review". Thanks. We don't generally do "performance reviews." This is my first real programming job. I'm fresh out of school, and learning so fast in the real world I wonder why I even went to college in the first place. I work at a small (12 people) software company that makes business calendar software. Our revenue is solid and expected to increase dramatically in the next few years. I understand I'm "entry-level" but my starting wage is way low. Right now I'm doing C#.NET development, implementing new features and fixing bugs, things like that. I'd like to stay with this company as it's a great learning experience and I love the people. I don't want to be disloyal but I can't make promises to stay when other dev shops actually pay developer wages.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 21:32
|
|
|
A MIRACLE posted:I'd like to stay with this company as it's a great learning experience and I love the people. I don't want to be disloyal but I can't make promises to stay when other dev shops actually pay developer wages. It is up to you to determine whether you value dollars or the day-to-day satisfaction of your current job more. As for loyalty, there is an important distinction between personal loyalty and company loyalty. It is ok for you to feel personal loyalty to your co-workers and if they truly have personal loyalty to you they will understand and support you if what is best for you is to move on. When it comes to company loyalty you need to judge whether this company would be loyal to you during down times (LOL) or if they would can you the first quarter it made the books look good. Are they paying you a fair wage or do they only hold onto you because you are such a bargain working well under your worth? Be loyal to them in accord with their loyalty and fairness to you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 21:54
|
|
|
I would not trust a company that is underpaying developers to be loyal if something goes bad. If they aren't paying competitively, leave.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 22:03
|
|
|
Orzo posted:I would not trust a company that is underpaying developers to be loyal if something goes bad. If they aren't paying competitively, leave. Yeah, if you're being paid significantly below market in circumstances other than "i'm an intern lol" (and even then, programmer intern pay anywhere respectable >> blue collar pay) you're probably best off not even asking for a raise under any guise. Interview elsewhere and hand in your two weeks notice when you have signed a contract elsewhere. Dismiss any talk of counter offers out of hand, it's never* in your interest to take one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 22:46
|
|
|
Pweller posted:^^^ Pweller posted:Okay. I'm getting super uncomfortable since they're grooming me for stuff... this would be so much easier if everyone had agents or whatever as mediators. Also, it sounds like maybe you're not putting your skills to the best use there? If the type of work you're doing won't look good on a resume, that's another factor to consider.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 23:19
|
|
|
quote:So if you want to engage in targeted self-improvement I'm an undergrad student who isn't sure what in CS I should be focusing on learning, outside of the mandatory coursework. I don't have a good understanding or knowledge of the field itself, it's only something last year that I realized I love doing, so I'm kind of overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of information out there and the amount of languages/projects/frameworks that are available. Does you have any solid resources on the following?: -Notable communities, forums, blogs, etc. that I should be watching and participating in. -Comparisons/explanations of the various subfields and specializations of computer science. -Notable opensource projects that a beginner could work on. Any help would be appreciated! e: Changing the question. oxidation fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jul 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 07:33
|
|
|
GNOME 3 is probably going to become standard for many Linux distributions but it needs developers to squash bugs and implement features. You would probably need a good knowledge of C and it's not going to be easy to just jump in, but it would be good experience. Getting stuck into a heap or source code is a pretty good way to get a feel for a language, you might be programming parrot fashion for a bit, but you will obtain enlightenment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 09:59
|
|
only
|
Otto Skorzeny posted:Yeah, if you're being paid significantly below market in circumstances other than "i'm an intern lol" (and even then, programmer intern pay anywhere respectable >> blue collar pay) you're probably best off not even asking for a raise under any guise. Interview elsewhere and hand in your two weeks notice when you have signed a contract elsewhere. Dismiss any talk of counter offers out of hand, it's never* in your interest to take one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 19:58
|
|
|
I left the footnote off intentionally, read the asterisk as 'barring something absurd'
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 22:05
|
|
|
I don't see how you can say 'never in your interest' when a significant raise could definitely be in one's interest. Personally I wouldn't let that influence me, since I am comfortable, but if someone was struggling with money for some reason (and there are plenty) a counter-offer might be just what they needed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 22:17
|
|
|
I don't think that's a likely enough outcome to consider, your company either doesn't think you're worth the extra money (in which case they'll say toodles instead of giving a counter offer) or they think you're worth the money and aren't paying it to you anyways, in which case any raise they give you is really an advance against future raises - they're going to pull the same shenanigans again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 00:38
|
|
|
Otto Skorzeny posted:... in which case any raise they give you is really an advance against future raises - they're going to pull the same shenanigans again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2011 04:47
|
|
|
Plorkyeran posted:having certs means that you're a bad developer because a good developer wouldn't need to get them
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 02:46
|
|
|
necrobobsledder posted:... about as high as you could go as a developer without being in finance ... but I'm like 6 years out now ... anything less than $150k / yr including bonuses seems like I'm a slacker compared to many of my peers. How big is your peer group?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 05:28
|
|
|
$150k is 90k in real money / GBP. That is a lot of money even in finance for your experience level. That is also almost 5 times the median salary in the 22 - 29 age bracket in the UK. Median salary for a householder in the 25 - 34 bracket* in the US is $50k. So only around three times in the US, but your housing market is a lot different to ours, so another skew. But yeah, money isn't everything. Especially rarely obtainable amounts of money. *so that's going to skew poo poo right out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 10:35
|
|
|
A lot of this is dependent on your location - IIRC, you live in Cali? I think 150K is mean/median for general devs there with your level of experience. So considering there're absolute shite developers included in that stat, you could/should aim for more. My impression is that people in tech companies tend to top out at 200-250K by career end. If you're in finance IT, the average person who's worked for 6 years would have hit VP and be making 150-180K min as base and X% as base. There's a lot more variation in the industry since there's a huge gulf in coding competency - if you're Google/Amazon material, I'd argue you could make double whatever the tech industry's offering since you'd be significantly above the average in capability. CoL is another factor as well - if you're living in NY or CA, you might as well divide the numbers by 2 to give a better comparison with living in some place like PA. All this being said, the question is what kind of lifestyle do you want? I've met a bunch of Google and Microsoft employees that could write their own tickets but chose to stay on with middling salaries because they're happy with their QoL. The other point is what do you want to do long term? Code, transition to management, or become a software architect? That probably has a bigger impact on your long term salary trajectory than min maxing your next job. shrike82 fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jul 30, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2011 13:28
|
|
|
Edison was a dick posted:GNOME 3 is probably going to become standard for many Linux distributions but it needs developers to squash bugs and implement features. You would probably need a good knowledge of C and it's not going to be easy to just jump in, but it would be good experience. Additionally, the GNOME3 shell is extendable with (implemented in?) Javascript, so it's pretty easy to add crap to it. Also there aren't many such extensions available at the moment, so someone jumping in can plunder old panel applets or whatever for extension ideas. A problem is that the documentation really isn't there, so while you're learning to make extensions you'd probably have to hang out on their IRC or mailing lists and bug people a bunch until you get the hang of the environment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2011 07:12
|
|
|
oxidation posted:I'm an undergrad student who isn't sure what in CS I should be focusing on learning, outside of the mandatory coursework. I don't have a good understanding or knowledge of the field itself, it's only something last year that I realized I love doing, so I'm kind of overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of information out there and the amount of languages/projects/frameworks that are available. I'm kind of in a similar situation. I'm about to start a CS degree in September. I have about three years of experience from taking a few high school classes and messing around with Java, Python, and C/C++, but I'm not very confident with my abilities. I want to really get ahead of the pack and make the most out of college so that I can be prepared for internships and research positions early on. Do you guys have any recommendations for specific skills I should learn or opportunities I should pursue?
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 06:58
|
|
|
Holy John posted:I'm kind of in a similar situation. I'm about to start a CS degree in September. I have about three years of experience from taking a few high school classes and messing around with Java, Python, and C/C++, but I'm not very confident with my abilities. I want to really get ahead of the pack and make the most out of college so that I can be prepared for internships and research positions early on. Do you guys have any recommendations for specific skills I should learn or opportunities I should pursue? I'm going to be a Junior in CS at my university this coming year and I've had an internship both summers so far. The whole point of your degree will be learning about CS theories and coding so I wouldn't stress out about that aspect. If you've had programming experience in high school you'll probably be ahead of 2/3 of your classmates. I assume you took the AP CompSci test? The material in AP CS is pretty similar to entry level CS courses, but the courses are more rigorous. To brush up on your skills I would just suggest the general programming for fun challenge things like Project Euler. As far as getting internships goes, follow the advice of your college's career center. Prepare a good resume and get it critiqued. Go to all of the CS job fairs and maybe even the IT/Engineering ones if you're desperate. Besides good grades, the best thing you can have on your resume is practical experience. Open source, research, campus programming jobs for profs, volunteering programming, whatever you can do to show that you have the ability to produce. Once you get some interest, it comes down to how well you interview. I think you can expect a decent shot at internships after your sophomore year, and definitely something good your junior year. I was just lucky as hell to get something after my freshman year. At my school, there are quite a few opportunities to get involved in CS related activities outside of class. We have a big ACM chapter and a large engineering volunteer program with some programming positions. Pick something and stick with it, and show some dedication and results. You can probably start getting involved with research in your sophomore year if you're interested in that. I have a few friends who have done research, but I don't have any experience myself yet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 07:20
|
|
|
Holy John posted:I'm kind of in a similar situation. I'm about to start a CS degree in September. I have about three years of experience from taking a few high school classes and messing around with Java, Python, and C/C++, but I'm not very confident with my abilities. I want to really get ahead of the pack and make the most out of college so that I can be prepared for internships and research positions early on. Do you guys have any recommendations for specific skills I should learn or opportunities I should pursue? Whether you suck or not at your first CS classes will be a function of your innate intelligence and whether you go to class and do homework, not a function of any attempts at "preparation" you do before then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 07:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 20:32 |
|
|
shrughes posted:Whether you suck or not at your first CS classes will be a function of your innate intelligence and whether you go to class and do homework, not a function of any attempts at "preparation" you do before then. We've disagreed in the past, but this is a statement that I wholeheartedly agree with! Intro CS isn't that tough. It gets thorny in the 300/400 level classes, though! I'll never forgive my compilers and interpreters class for dragging my GPA down. The professor was awesome and died recently, though, so I forgive him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 08:04
|
|
