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Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

These guys have balls of steel

These guys... not so much

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Probably didn't want to fly their shiny Gulfstream IV into a hurricane. P-3? Those things are goddamn tanks. Btw, the Orion's are named Kermit and Miss Piggy.

Kermit and Miss Piggy: http://i.imgur.com/sg39a.jpg
The GFIV: http://i.imgur.com/8CPPm.jpg

Cygni fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 26, 2011

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug
Different missions (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Hunters )

quote:

The Lockheed WP-3D Orion aircraft flown by the NOAA Hurricane Hunters are heavily instrumented flying laboratories specifically modified to take atmospheric and radar measurements within tropical cyclones and winter storms.

The NOAA G-IV Gulfstream high altitude jet conducts hurricane surveillance flying upwards of 4,000 miles (6,400 km) each flight to document upper and lower level winds that affect the movement of tropical cyclones. The hurricane models (computer models predicting hurricane tracks and intensity) mainly utilize NOAA G-IV dropwindsonde data that is collected both day and night in storms affecting the United States.

The WP-3D's service ceiling is 28,000 feet, while The G-IV's is 45,000 feet.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Tide posted:

That is incredible. Absolutely incredible. Do we (the US) have anything that can compete with that sort of manueverability? Granted it seemed relatively low speeds and the pilot was probably Russia's absolute best they have and it had no armament (adding weight), but it just seemed so effortless.

Pretty sure it doesn't have a radar up front either. So in a "real world" situation I'm not sure how it would compare to an F-15C in maneuverability, but it would probably do better. F-22 is still more maneuverable, however.

PatrickBateman
Jul 26, 2007
Jt8d has a spool up time under 10 seconds or it doesn't pass test cell or fuel control swap. I'll check what cfm56-5a has but I know the pw4168a is also under 10 seconds. Time and temp, and altitude all factor into it.

Why do aircraft come in for approach above idle? Unstable approach criteria means engine has to be spooled up slightly else the response time would result in an accident. One of many things flight safety monitors for and reports back to pilots at a major airline.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

PatrickBateman posted:

Jt8d has a spool up time under 10 seconds or it doesn't pass test cell or fuel control swap. I'll check what cfm56-5a has but I know the pw4168a is also under 10 seconds. Time and temp, and altitude all factor into it.

Why do aircraft come in for approach above idle? Unstable approach criteria means engine has to be spooled up slightly else the response time would result in an accident. One of many things flight safety monitors for and reports back to pilots at a major airline.

Every time I've come in to FLL from the west (i.e. TPA, SFO, IAH) we've stabilized about fifty miles out, and they still throttle up about five miles off the field (University Drive).

On some ATL-FLL and TPA-FLL flights, the pilots basically keep I-75 off the port side of the plane the whole flight. Florida seems like an easy state to fly over.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

BonzoESC posted:

Every time I've come in to FLL from the west (i.e. TPA, SFO, IAH) we've stabilized about fifty miles out, and they still throttle up about five miles off the field (University Drive).

On some ATL-FLL and TPA-FLL flights, the pilots basically keep I-75 off the port side of the plane the whole flight. Florida seems like an easy state to fly over.

An aircraft isn't on a stabilized approach that far out. For a precision approach like an ILS approach, your goal is to stabilize as soon as possible after capturing the glideslope. Ideally, you've configured the aircraft so that it automatically settles into a stabilized descent right at the moment you capture the glideslope; in reality, however, this isn't all that common. Traffic, winds and other factors can often delay achieving a stabilized approach. As long as you achieve a stabilized approach within the parameters of your company's SOPs (which can differ dramatically from company to company; where I work, it's 1000' AGL for an ILS approach in IMC), there is no issue.

On a somewhat related note, while executing a missed approach at ILS minimums, many jet aircraft can actually touch down on the runway briefly before the engines have spooled up enough to produce a positive rate of climb; this is especially true of older aircraft without digital engine control.

frankenbeans
Feb 16, 2003

Good Times
I went to the RAFA Shoreham airshow this year. Was a good display as usual, but the day was cloudbound. Here's a few of the better shots. Excuse the mostly grey backgrounds.









































Colonel K
Jun 29, 2009
Excellent pictures frankenbeans, I particularly like the swordfish.

Here's a shot I snapped last night whilst out at the airfield.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

Colonel K posted:

Excellent pictures frankenbeans, I particularly like the swordfish.

Here's a shot I snapped last night whilst out at the airfield.


Is that a Lightning in the background?

And great pictures frankenbeans.

Colonel K
Jun 29, 2009

iyaayas01 posted:

Is that a Lightning in the background?

And great pictures frankenbeans.

Good spot, it certainly is.

monkeytennis
Apr 26, 2007


Toilet Rascal
And a Jet Provost? Vampire? Where is that?

niggerstink420
Aug 7, 2009

by T. Fine

MrChips posted:

On a somewhat related note, while executing a missed approach at ILS minimums, many jet aircraft can actually touch down on the runway briefly before the engines have spooled up enough to produce a positive rate of climb; this is especially true of older aircraft without digital engine control.

Well, if the wheels touch the runway, it becomes less "missed approach" and more "aborted landing".

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

frankenbeans posted:




I absolutely adore these Silence Twisters. I'd love to own one and it isn't even that unrealistic. The designers said they wanted a Ducati 999 Monoposto (Italian for single seat) of the sky - and if the engine manufacturers numbers are to be trusted it actually gets better fuel mileage than a sport bike.

Colonel K
Jun 29, 2009

monkeytennis posted:

And a Jet Provost? Vampire? Where is that?

Yes and yes, good spots. Cheating somewhat and looking at the full res picture I think in addition to those you can just about spot the Meteor and the Percival Sea Prince.
It is a small aviation museum in cumbria.

CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


frankenbeans posted:



God almighty that's breathtaking. Are those Hurricanes or Spitfires (or one of each) escorting that Lancaster?

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isP1LVVZ6nU

Some great footage of an old Convair-880. The engines are civilian versions of the General Electric J79 used in the F-104, F-4 Phantom, and several other military jet aircraft of the time. That's one smoky takeoff. Love the backdrop of wind turbines, too.

Q_res
Oct 29, 2005

We're fucking built for this shit!

BSAKat posted:

God almighty that's breathtaking. Are those Hurricanes or Spitfires (or one of each) escorting that Lancaster?

Foreground fighter is a Spitfire, background is a Hurricane.

Boomerjinks
Jan 31, 2007

DINO DAMAGE
Who watched a Dreamlifter take off after touring the Everette plant today?

This guy.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

This is kind of cool. I know there has been a lot of talk about new gen airships being built for heavy lifting, but this one sounds like it might actually happen.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/2011/08/26/nwt-discovery-airship.html

Agreements signed and deliveries aren't being talked about in the far future, 2014 is pretty close.

quote:

A British manufacturer will build a fleet of airships for Yellowknife’s Discovery Air to supply remote communities and enterprises in the North, the two companies say.

The futuristic giant blimps from Hybrid Air Vehicles will cost $40 million each, Discovery Air Innovations, a Quebec-based subsidiary of Discovery Air, announced after signing its agreement with HAV.

The aircraft use a mix of non-flammable helium and air power to fly and can land on almost any surface, HAV says on its website

They'll be able to carry up to 50 tonnes of cargo to mining camps and remote communities, HAV says.

Stuart Russell, the vice-president of a Yellowknife mining logistics company, suggests northern transportation is a challenge just waiting for solutions.
Roads can fail

"It's a huge logistical challenge when the ice roads fail,” he told CBC News. “In the High Arctic, there's lots of opportunity for oil and gas extraction but we have to find a way to do it. The airship may be one solution."

Hybrid Air Vehicles and Discovery Air Innovations are working together to design the airship for the North and get it through the certification process.

Discovery Air, which faced major financial problems two years ago and needed assistance from the Northwest Territories government, says it plans to buy up to 45 airships and hopes to have them operational by 2014.

HAV says technological improvements have allowed for an airship much better than the original concept.

"With a cargo capacity of 50 tonnes at speeds up to [185 km/h], we believe this capability will enable economic development of remote, stranded resources with a low environmental impact," HAV said on its website.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

185 km/h is a pretty decent speed. If it was to replace ice trucks it would have to be able to deal with some nasty weather. The speed would help against unfavorable winds en route, but it will probably be very difficult to land.

I really like lighter-than-air flying, this guy is absolutely amazing: http://www.clusterballoon.com/ He crossed the English Channel in a lawn chair-like contraption. And a house to 10,500 feet.

I want to build a balloon chair some time.

frankenbeans
Feb 16, 2003

Good Times

Ola posted:

I absolutely adore these Silence Twisters. I'd love to own one and it isn't even that unrealistic. The designers said they wanted a Ducati 999 Monoposto (Italian for single seat) of the sky - and if the engine manufacturers numbers are to be trusted it actually gets better fuel mileage than a sport bike.

I saw these two at another airshow this year (good show, even greyer, and 95% of my pictures came out poo poo), and remarked that they look like modern spitfires, especialy from above/below. At shoreham, the commentator said they were built by a couple of German guys, and they based it very heavily on the Spitfire. My vindication was palpable.

Edit: On the subject of the Eastbourne airshow, I dragged out a couple of shotsthat didn't blow total rear end. The lighting was awful, the distance was about double that of Shoreham, and to cap it all, I had my camera set up wrong. Shutter speed to high on the props, and too low on the jets. Also, I uploaded them at desktop res, so I linked them. Still:

P-40

P-40 and F-16

More P-40 and F-16

F-86

Here is the Mustang that lawn darted a few weeks ago. This photo was from Shoreham in '09. Probably the cleanest plane I have ever seen. And yes, the RAFA show is a WWII LARPfest, with a full on simulated Jerry air attack and scrambling of allied forces. It's great.



Lastly, as my place backs onto a valley through the south downs, we get a bit of military traffic (apparently one of the best places in this part of the country for low-level flying). Every now and then, this massive fucker turns up and practices hovering/parallel parking/whatever at the football pitch just outside.

Chinook

I'm sure there's an emoticon for that, but I can't be arsed to find it.

frankenbeans fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 29, 2011

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Epic Fail Guy posted:

Well, if the wheels touch the runway, it becomes less "missed approach" and more "aborted landing".

I could sperg out about why touching down in a missed approach isn't an "aborted landing", but I won't.

Suffice it to say that once you commence a missed approach, there is no intent to land the aircraft.

slidebite posted:

This is kind of cool. I know there has been a lot of talk about new gen airships being built for heavy lifting, but this one sounds like it might actually happen.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/offbeat/story/2011/08/26/nwt-discovery-airship.html

Agreements signed and deliveries aren't being talked about in the far future, 2014 is pretty close.

I honestly can't see this happening. Beyond the issues surrounding Discovery Air, there are all kinds of issues, technical and otherwise, that work against airships operating in the environment up north.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.

Boomerjinks posted:

Who watched a Dreamlifter take off after touring the Everette plant today?

This guy.

Everett. :pseudo:

I live on one of the flight paths to Paine Field and get to see those things pretty often. Haven't caught one taking off yet, though.

Did you make you make it up the street to the Flying Heritage Collection? I haven't been yet, but they had free flight days all summer. I was really looking forward to the Sept. 10th one because they apparently have a Mig-29 they were going to show off, but they just mentioned it was going to be a static display rather than a flight demo on facebook :(

There's also a hanger where they are building ME-262's at Paine Field as well. Now if we could only have an actual airshow there again like when I was a kid.

Boomerjinks
Jan 31, 2007

DINO DAMAGE

BeastOfExmoor posted:

Everett. :pseudo:

Fuckin iPad.

Nah, but I did get to spend a bunch of time at the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field. Got to see one of the red 747 dash 8s blow by, FILLING the loving windows of the cafe. Also, oggled the new P-8 Poseidon and a bunch of Japanese and Turkish AEW aircraft undergoing testing.

Also this.


Also, I could live very well in Seattle so long as my porch had a view of floatplanes landing all day.

MikeyTsi
Jan 11, 2009

Boomerjinks posted:


Also, I could live very well in Seattle so long as my porch had a view of floatplanes landing all day.

Live in Kenmore.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Boomerjinks posted:

Also, I could live very well in Seattle so long as my porch had a view of floatplanes landing all day.

Some of my friends have an office across the interstate from the big runway at MIA, the one that all the TATL beasts (MD-11, B747, A380) use. I could probably not get work done there.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

Holy poo poo the P-8 is a 737 with a BOMB BAY

How cool is that poo poo?

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

For some reason I think military versions of civilian aircraft are cool. I was pretty much :stare: when I first found out that the Canadian Forces' A310 derived CC-150 Polaris could actually do air-air tanker duty.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

MA-Horus posted:

Holy poo poo the P-8 is a 737 with a BOMB BAY

How cool is that poo poo?

AND external hardpoints. A 737 carrying missiles!


Someday, they will be pitted in furious battle vs missile carrying L-1011s.

benito
Sep 28, 2004

And I don't blab
any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter

Cygni posted:

AND external hardpoints. A 737 carrying missiles!

The bomber version of the 737 has been an idea for a long time, and it's a cool concept and a lot cheaper than developing something like a bomber version of the C-17. But as someone who only flies civilian... part of me worries about the 737 becoming a potential warplane. Are those windows real or painted on? Do I get fighter escorts when flying into certain countries, just in case? Do we have to start patrolling 737s flying into American airspace? "I'm just a little lost Southwest plane, nothing to see here..."

Not paranoia, not whining, just slightly worried about blurring the lines between civilian and military aircraft, especially given the massive number of countries that have used the 737 for civilian purposes.

Captain Postal
Sep 16, 2007

benito posted:

The bomber version of the 737 has been an idea for a long time, and it's a cool concept and a lot cheaper than developing something like a bomber version of the C-17. But as someone who only flies civilian... part of me worries about the 737 becoming a potential warplane. Are those windows real or painted on? Do I get fighter escorts when flying into certain countries, just in case? Do we have to start patrolling 737s flying into American airspace? "I'm just a little lost Southwest plane, nothing to see here..."

Not paranoia, not whining, just slightly worried about blurring the lines between civilian and military aircraft, especially given the massive number of countries that have used the 737 for civilian purposes.

This is nothing new. KAL007 was shot down after the fighter pilot saw the window lights and assumed they were a decoy, so I don't see it making much of a difference if there are military versions or not when poo poo gets real.

Privately I agree though. And also the A330MRTT shits all over every other military conversion.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

given that rightfuckingnow you could cut a hole in the bottom of Civilian Airliner X and install a munitions-delivery system i don't see how having it be a factory option is really gonna make a difference

not if you want the aircraft to take off again. That's load bearing sheet metal.

Captain Postal fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Sep 1, 2011

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
given that rightfuckingnow you could cut a hole in the bottom of Civilian Airliner X and install a munitions-delivery system i don't see how having it be a factory option is really gonna make a difference

you sound pretty paranoid for what it's worth

AzureSkys
Apr 27, 2003

Wish I could take pictures for you guys. I was on this one a few days ago:

India's own P8.

It'll be interesting to see where the new 737 MAX will be built.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_kKD6g53AA

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

ack! posted:

It'll be interesting to see where the new 737 MAX will be built.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_kKD6g53AA

I thought the engines stuck out way more forward off the wing than the -NGs did, but they don't:

(from about 1:00 in the youtube above)


(from http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Boeing-737-832/1972740/L/ )

The scalloping on the engine exhaust is quite cool; the E-170/-190s have had that for a while, and it's quite prominent on the 787 and 747-8.

Cocoa Crispies fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Sep 1, 2011

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

quote:

commercial airliners with missiles

what the gently caress is going on in here???
:psyboom:

Boomerjinks
Jan 31, 2007

DINO DAMAGE

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

what the gently caress is going on in here???
:psyboom:

Badassery

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Captain Postal posted:

not if you want the aircraft to take off again. That's load bearing sheet metal.

If you wanted to bad enough I am sure you could figure out a way to make it work.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.

Boomerjinks posted:


Also, I could live very well in Seattle so long as my porch had a view of floatplanes landing all day.

I knew a guy who lived on a houseboat on Lake Union just north of downtown. It was literally like living on a runway since float planes would be landing within a 1/4 mile of him all day long. I've lived here my whole life, so it's funny to hear you talk about float planes with such high regard. They are probably the least exciting plane to see to me.

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Boomerjinks
Jan 31, 2007

DINO DAMAGE

BeastOfExmoor posted:

I knew a guy who lived on a houseboat on Lake Union just north of downtown. It was literally like living on a runway since float planes would be landing within a 1/4 mile of him all day long. I've lived here my whole life, so it's funny to hear you talk about float planes with such high regard. They are probably the least exciting plane to see to me.

I live in Colorado. Our largest natural lake is 1 mile long.

edit: even though those things don't really relate, my point is that we don't have float planes here, EVER.

Also, I have a thing for seaplanes.

Boomerjinks fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Sep 1, 2011

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