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kimbo305 posted:This is sorta the industry commentary thread. Help me out with this -- I think this is accurate: 
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Oct 25, 2011 21:37
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 it's not, regarding the VWAG/Porsche AG relationship. VWAG has a 49.9% stake in Porsche AG as of December 2009. edit: I am also pretty sure that VWAG has a controlling stake in Scania at this point - yeah, they have a 55.9% stake in MAN and a 75% voting stake in Scania edit2: I am not sure of the state ownership part of the business but that's at least approximately correct to my knowledge. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Oct 25, 2011 |
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Oct 25, 2011 22:36
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Isn't the crazy recent buyout stuff between VW and Porsche just a crazy plan by Ferdinand Piech to take the whole thing private.
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Oct 26, 2011 05:04
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The part that confuses me and isn't apparent in the diagram is Porsche SE.Wikipedia posted:Porsche SE is headquartered in Zuffenhausen, a city district of Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg and is owned by the Piëch and Porsche families, and Qatar Holdings, through the Qatar Investment Authority (10%). quote:Through [Porsche SE's] investment in Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH, it owns 50.1% of Porsche AG and 50.7% of Volkswagen AG. Ok, so it owns Porsche AG, but also a majority of VWAG? So indirectly, Porsche SE still owns VWAG and through that, essentially the rest of Porsche AG? 
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Oct 26, 2011 05:08
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Yeah, basically the confusing part is that there are 2 Porsches, Porsche SE is the holding company, Porsche AG (or whatever the new name is) is the car maker. The holding company use to own the car maker outright and part of VW, but now VW owns part of the car maker. The holding company also owns a lot of VW, but so do other people.
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 12:58
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2012 Ranger with a 3.2L I5 common rail turbo diesel and a 6 speed manual to be sold in 180 countries, but not the U.S.
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Oct 26, 2011 14:48
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I don't like investing in companies where minority owners control all the voting shares. They tend to overpay themselves and do dumb things because of hurr durf like trying to take over Volkswagen and screwing it up. Anyway where the hell is my mandingo diesel truck?
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Oct 26, 2011 14:55
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Skyssx posted:2012 Ranger with a 3.2L I5 common rail turbo diesel and a 6 speed manual to be sold in 180 countries, but not the U.S. Why do we continue to get shafted on diesel availability?
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Oct 26, 2011 15:37
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Motronic posted:Why do we continue to get shafted on diesel availability? And turbo I5s in general...
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Oct 26, 2011 15:52
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Motronic posted:Why do we continue to get shafted on diesel availability? Emissions requirements; apparently VW has been riding along on some sort of loophole for a little while now.
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Oct 26, 2011 20:28
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oRenj9 posted:Emissions requirements; apparently VW has been riding along on some sort of loophole for a little while now. I read somewhere (I wish I could find the source again) that the US emissions requirements for diesels is 5 times stricter than the Euro requirements, and the manufacturers can barely make the Euro requirements. Thus unless they can get some kind of exception (which only lasts 3 years or something), they can't sell diesels in the US
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Oct 26, 2011 20:48
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Motronic posted:Why do we continue to get shafted on diesel availability? In this case it's the truck not the engine. It's too big and too expensive, nice to see Australia sticking to what it knows.
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Oct 26, 2011 20:57
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Brigdh posted:I read somewhere (I wish I could find the source again) that the US emissions requirements for diesels is 5 times stricter than the Euro requirements, and the manufacturers can barely make the Euro requirements. Thus unless they can get some kind of exception (which only lasts 3 years or something), they can't sell diesels in the US Im pretty sure it was from a link posted on the last page about the cruze diesel and why GM execs didn't think it would be that popular.
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Oct 26, 2011 21:15
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This is from a few months ago, but I just found out about it: the Cadillac Ciel. http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/cadillac/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Aug/0818_cadillac_ciel    Pros: Convertible, suicide doors, classic old school styling. Cons: V6, it's still no long land yacht, and it's just a concept, but they say this is the direction their designs will be going in, which is fantastic. I have 65 and 99 Devilles, and I always said I would never buy a newer Caddy because I couldn't stand the angular ultra modern Art and Science styling...frankly they look too much like any other car. I have had opportunities to get newer Devilles and DTSs as daily drivers and I've refused, and when and if my 99 bites the dust I'll get another 99 or maybe a mid 90s Brougham. Until now...this Ciel is pretty much the first modern Cadillac I would ever consider buying. Astroman fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 26, 2011 |
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Oct 26, 2011 23:13
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Q_res posted:In this case it's the truck not the engine. It's too big and too expensive, nice to see Australia sticking to what it knows. Its not significantly bigger or more expensive than its competitors internationally. Remember the F-series does not exist outside a few countries, and isn't considered a suitable vehicle to import (outside of a few people who bring in the larger models to tow massive loads)
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Oct 26, 2011 23:42
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dissss posted:Its not significantly bigger or more expensive than its competitors internationally. Considering context, I thought it was fairly obvious I was talking with regards to the US market. You know, considering the post I quoted was complaining about the US market not getting the I5 Diesel Ranger. I mean, seriously, that needed to be explained?
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Oct 26, 2011 23:49
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Even considering that there is no reason they couldn't drop a smaller diesel into the F-150. Lack of diesel options has nothing to do with the suitability of one truck for the US market.
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Oct 27, 2011 00:30
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Astroman posted:This is from a few months ago, but I just found out about it: the Cadillac Ciel. So many rap videos will feature this car.
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Oct 27, 2011 00:30
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Astroman posted:This car is gangster as hell
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Oct 27, 2011 00:36
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dissss posted:Even considering that there is no reason they couldn't drop a smaller diesel into the F-150. Lack of diesel options has nothing to do with the suitability of one truck for the US market. Holy poo poo, alright the point was, we're not getting the I5 Diesel Ranger because we're not getting the Ranger at all. Yes, we get shafted on diesels in the US. I was simply pointing out, that isn't the issue in this case, it's that we don't get the truck at all. For the reasons I mentioned. I can only assume your persistent refusal to comprehend my post is intentional at this point... edit: let's just let it go, alright? Q_res fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 01:07
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Astroman posted:
It's also a twin turbo V6 with 420HP. What an incredible car. I hope to god Cadillac produces it. They need an over the top flagship luxocar.
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Oct 27, 2011 01:56
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I bet it'll end up like their last badass flagship sedan concept and never be built. Which makes me sad. Cadillac seems afraid to pull the trigger on moving up-market, I don't know why, but they're going to end up leaving Buick with nowhere to go.
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Oct 27, 2011 02:00
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Astroman posted:This is from a few months ago, but I just found out about it: the Cadillac Ciel. Just convinced me to start doing my homework.
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Oct 27, 2011 02:48
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Q_res posted:I bet it'll end up like their last badass flagship sedan concept and never be built. Which makes me sad. Cadillac seems afraid to pull the trigger on moving up-market, I don't know why, but they're going to end up leaving Buick with nowhere to go. Ah yes, the Cadillac Sixteen, another car I would definitely have bought.  
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Oct 27, 2011 04:53
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It really just looks awkward compared to the Excelero though if we're talking ridiculous hyperluxury should have beens.
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Oct 27, 2011 05:00
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mod sassinator posted:It's not an Aveo anymore--the Sonic is getting great reviews: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/23/2012-chevrolet-sonic-first-drive-review/ Thwomp posted:Edit^^^ I have no idea but this wasn't an Aveo. It's a second-gen Aveo built and designed by the same people on an updated platform. I personally haven't driven one, but I'm surprised they've turned it around. Then again, the Cruze has been better regarded than the Cobalt--so maybe Daewoo just got their act together.
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Oct 27, 2011 05:03
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Matlock posted:It's a second-gen Aveo built and designed by the same people on an updated platform. I personally haven't driven one, but I'm surprised they've turned it around. Then again, the Cruze has been better regarded than the Cobalt--so maybe Daewoo just got their act together. Actually you are entirely wrong.... It shares not a single component with the aveo and is based on the GM Gamma II platform whereas the aveo was based on some lovely daewo platform made before GM acquired them. Nice try though.
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Oct 27, 2011 05:15
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Q_res posted:I bet it'll end up like their last badass flagship sedan concept and never be built. Which makes me sad. Cadillac seems afraid to pull the trigger on moving up-market, I don't know why, but they're going to end up leaving Buick with nowhere to go. Considering GM was on the verge of nonexistence 2 years ago I'm not surprised. Cadillac is really in no position to make big gambles on high-end luxury cars when the market is already dominated by the mighty Germans; the only way they can hope to make money is with uncomplicated economy cars/hybrids. I think the reason why this concept car is so immediately likeable is because it's a complete homage to the late 60's/early 70's land-boats that were the height of luxury and strikingly beautiful. But that was a different time, when if you wanted to drop some serious dough on a fancy car to show off to the neighbors, Cadillac was virtually the only choice. Yeticopter fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 05:17
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Brigdh posted:I read somewhere (I wish I could find the source again) that the US emissions requirements for diesels is 5 times stricter than the Euro requirements, and the manufacturers can barely make the Euro requirements. Thus unless they can get some kind of exception (which only lasts 3 years or something), they can't sell diesels in the US But that cant be right because top gear said that prius suck and dieselablhdflkbkdfhkfsgl
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Oct 27, 2011 05:18
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Q_res posted:I bet it'll end up like their last badass flagship sedan concept and never be built. Which makes me sad. Cadillac seems afraid to pull the trigger on moving up-market, I don't know why, but they're going to end up leaving Buick with nowhere to go. The sixteen was meh and cadillac probably has a bad tastein their mouth after releasing the poo poo tastic XLR. Whenever i see one in real life i see absolutely zero appeal, its a car that managed to look dated the day it arrived in dealers
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Oct 27, 2011 05:21
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Astroman posted:This is from a few months ago, but I just found out about it: the Cadillac Ciel. Hate to say it but this looks like the bastard offspring of a 70's land barge Deville and a modern CTS. I kind of like it.
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Oct 27, 2011 06:33
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Astroman posted:Ah yes, the Cadillac Sixteen, another car I would definitely have bought. Don't forget its contemporary, the Cien:  Would have been GM's first mid-engined supercar (aside from the Fiero, that is).
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Oct 27, 2011 08:34
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Astroman posted:This is from a few months ago, but I just found out about it: the Cadillac Ciel. the seats, especially the back seats, are completely and utterly WRONG for this car. Everything else is slick and deluxe, but heavily bolstered sports buckets? Not Appropriate.
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Oct 27, 2011 11:32
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Linedance posted:Everything else is slick and deluxe, but heavily bolstered sports buckets? Not Appropriate. It doesn't stick out that much in this day and age. It's a look lots of contemporary luxury cars have. Take a look at the Continental or Rapide.
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Oct 27, 2011 13:13
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Fucknag posted:Don't forget its contemporary, the Cien: Someone at GM look at a Lamborghini and said: "why don't we make that?"
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Oct 27, 2011 13:13
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angryhampster posted:It's also a twin turbo V6 with 420HP.
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Oct 27, 2011 14:43
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Anyone else like the Audi A7? I think it looks pretty . And nightvision in a car as a safety feature!
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Oct 27, 2011 18:40
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Fucknag posted:Don't forget its contemporary, the Cien: I'm seeing Corvette in the front and Lamborghini in the back
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Oct 27, 2011 21:48
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69sofine posted:I'm seeing Corvette in the front and Lamborghini in the back Except its from 2002, so doesn't that pre-date the models of Corvette and Lamborghini's you're thinking of? Assuming you're seeing the C6 and Gallardo? Edit: The Cien was my go-to car in Gran Turismo 4 when I was too lazy to race well and just wanted to blow away the computer opponents.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:29
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grover posted:So, it would have appx the same power:weight ratio as a Dodge Neon? That's not a very fair criticism considering any offering from Rolls Royce or Bentley, which I believe this car is meant to compete with, will have similarly low power-to-weight figures.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:31
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