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No it seems like it's fine.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:06
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The first guy is right, here is the official laws of the game direct from FIFA: "FIFA, laws of the game, p 35 posted:A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by: I think it's easy to argue that atleast the second, if not the second and third, which would disallow your goal. Your offsides team mate doesn't have to touch the ball at all, I'd say that he interferes with an opponent by pulling the defender off you as he tries to defend your offside team mate. edit: a lot of people not understanding this rule I think, the defender is definitely being moved by the offisde players run, i don't really get where you guys are coming from.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:18
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edit: I don't even know anymore. edit2: I think Lamont's makes most sense. Player 2 definitely was just making a run. I don't even think the defender was away of Player 2's position behind him, and the defender was definitely in a good enough position to make a play on the pass. joshtothemaxx fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 03:30
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edit: /\ lol welcome to the wacky world of the offside lawgrvm posted:The first guy is right, here is the official laws of the game direct from FIFA: Those terms have specific definitions found in the Interpretation of the Laws of the Game: quote:In the context of Law 11 – Offside, the following definitions apply: Not only is player 2 running away from the ball, he clearly doesn't interfere with the defender's ability to play the ball since the ball is played right at him and in fact touches him (the defender). edit: Obviously this is all based on the description, I don't know what other movements the attacker might have been making/ what else the referee saw. But based on the description alone, I think he should have been fine. Lamont Cranston fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 03:32
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So you're telling me that an attacking runner making a run isn't going to count in under the second rule you're quoting? To me it still applies as his run is distracting to the defender who is marking him.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:38
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grvm posted:So you're telling me that an attacking runner making a run isn't going to count in under the second rule you're quoting? To me it still applies as his run is distracting to the defender who is marking him. He can be as distracting as he likes as long as he doesn't prevent the opponent from playing or being able to play the ball. edit: somebody get Trin
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Jul 24, 2012 03:42
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Lamont Cranston posted:He can be as distracting as he likes as long as he doesn't prevent the opponent from playing or being able to play the ball. "interfering with an opponent" means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent. I edited out the part that didn't pertain to this play. Based on the diagram given, my call is offside. I'd have to see the play to say that the defender wasn't influenced by player 2.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:49
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quote:"interfering with an opponent" means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent I guess it's open to interpretation, but I'd say that the attacking run pulls a defender preventing him from being able to play the ball by obstructing the players movements. And I guess obstruct could be a word that needs defining the way I'm using it because obviously the offside player wasn't physically in the way of the defender, but his movement definitely obstructs the defender by changing his position. If we have an in house offside authority bring him in, but I haven't been convinced otherwise yet.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:52
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It doesn't help that the assistant at the game was a high school aged girl who's excuse was simply "player 2 was behind the last defender" with no other explanation.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:54
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Lamont Cranston posted:No. Deflections do not create a new phase of play.
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Jul 24, 2012 04:01
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Bobby Digital posted:Deflections do not create a new phase of play. I was basing that statement entirely on this goal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss93i0LENBI so I'm definitely not certain enough to argue with you.
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Jul 24, 2012 04:15
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Lamont Cranston posted:I was basing that statement entirely on this goal That's an entirely different situation, she was onside the last time her team mate touched the ball.
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Jul 24, 2012 04:22
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grvm posted:That's an entirely different situation, she was onside the last time her team mate touched the ball. Yes, you are correct, I misremembered the circumstances of this play. Regardless, I still believe it doesn't make a difference as to whether Attacker 2 was interfering with his opponent. I'll screenshot this from the Interpretation in the hopes it's helpful:  And that's pretty much all I got. We've all been more nuanced and thoughtful in our discussion than the actual referee was, of course. This isn't nearly as much fun as the You Are the Ref thread where you know you'll get an answer in two days' time  \/ \/ \/ \/ In what way? In 8 the attacker (A) in an offside position makes a run but does not prevent the defender (B) from being able to play the ball, and the play is not offside. In 9 the attacker (A) runs toward the ball, physically interfering with defender (B), and is therefore offside. If in fact making a run were enough to cause one to commit an offside offense, both of these plays should be offside. In our scenario, not only was our attacker running away from the play, he clearly did not interfere with the defender being able to play the ball because the defender touched it. If our defender ran from the path of the ball to mark the attacker making his run, sure, but that's not how I read the situation. There's every possibility that I'm wrong obviously, but I really don't think that "influencing the positioning of the defender" in and of itself meets the standard of "interfering with an opponent". Otherwise any attacker standing in an offside position could be said to be interfering, and that's clearly not the intent of the law. As fun as this has been I think I've derailed this thread enough and this is really as far as I'm going I think we all understand each other even if we don't agree.
Lamont Cranston fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 04:43
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It was offside - when the ball was kicked, dude 2 was making a run that was effecting the defenders positioning so it's offside from that moment. We do need one of the resident refs in here though Lamont Cranston posted:Yes, you are correct, I misremembered the circumstances of this play. Regardless, I still believe it doesn't make a difference as to whether Attacker 2 was interfering with his opponent. Your screenshot directly contradicts that
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Jul 24, 2012 06:31
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Scored my first goal on sunday. Defender volleyed the ball into the box, i controlled it using the chest and hit it to the near post before it touched the ground, the ball hit the post and went inside.
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Jul 24, 2012 06:48
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packed in XI a side. a few week of training was great fun but when it came to learning how to play as a CB correctly (holding a line, communicating and watching three players at once) I realised I don't think I'm mentally cut out for it  the coach was really complimentary and was sad to see me go. might stick to five/six a side for one more year to actually improve my tackling and passing but I fear at 25 I'm over the hill to really learn how to cope with the heat of a battle that comes in central defence.
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Jul 24, 2012 13:41
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I got some Mercurial Victorys last week, walked from work to my 5-a-side game and before I'd even seen a football I had huge blisters on both my achilles from the back of the boots, the skin had been ripped off and it was agony to walk and play in them. I stuck some tape over the blisters but they were already so bad it didn't help much, maybe once they've healed that will prevent me getting more. It's annoying because the they seem to fit really nicely and feel great everywhere except the back. Anyone else had this with new Mercurials?
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Jul 24, 2012 15:55
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Kempo posted:I got some Mercurial Victorys last week, walked from work to my 5-a-side game and before I'd even seen a football I had huge blisters on both my achilles from the back of the boots, the skin had been ripped off and it was agony to walk and play in them. I stuck some tape over the blisters but they were already so bad it didn't help much, maybe once they've healed that will prevent me getting more. Every pair of Mercurials I've owned have given me blisters on my heels like that and felt great everywhere else on the foot.
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Jul 24, 2012 16:19
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britishbornandbread posted:packed in XI a side. a few week of training was great fun but when it came to learning how to play as a CB correctly (holding a line, communicating and watching three players at once) I realised I don't think I'm mentally cut out for it
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Jul 24, 2012 16:41
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25 is probably too old to make a dramatic improvement in your technique, but you're never too old to learn positioning and how to read the game. For some people it comes naturally but most have to learn it, and some never do! The fact that you recognise you need to work on it puts you a step ahead of a lot of amateur players already, if you play regularly for a season I guarantee you'll feel a lot more comfortable by the end. As long as you and your teammates are prepared for the fact you'll make plenty of mistakes as you learn, it's not a problem.
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Jul 24, 2012 17:42
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Been doing a ton of pickup this summer after not playing competively for a while. I was excited how fast my touch and fitness came back. The real reason for this post is that a few weeks ago my friends and I went out to start a 6 on 6 pickup game, and Owen Wilson randomly walked up and asked to join. Dude was wearing a polo shirt/shorts combo and no shoes. This is in Piedmont Park, Atlanta. Owen was pretty good, all things considered.
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Jul 24, 2012 18:33
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Scikar posted:25 is probably too old to make a dramatic improvement in your technique, but you're never too old to learn positioning and how to read the game. For some people it comes naturally but most have to learn it, and some never do! The fact that you recognise you need to work on it puts you a step ahead of a lot of amateur players already, if you play regularly for a season I guarantee you'll feel a lot more comfortable by the end. As long as you and your teammates are prepared for the fact you'll make plenty of mistakes as you learn, it's not a problem.
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Jul 24, 2012 18:52
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Baibai Kuaikuai posted:I know it's not directed at me, but thanks for this, I find it very interesting. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I haven't really been practicing soccer at any point during my life, without pickups during elementary school. Just recently I've been having alot of fun practicing dribbling, juggling and shooting. I basically do it for fun, but since I'm so old, is it pretty much moot to practice at all? I mean, since I've barely done any technical training before, does this mean it's too late? I don't mean playing in any semi-pro teams, obviously, I'm thinking more in amateur games. Will I not see any difference, mainly because I'm so old? I know it's sort of a dumb question, because obviously there should be some improvement if you keep at it, but, basically it's too late? One of the great things about football is that it's easy to play well, but difficult to play great. It's never too late to learn, especially if you're only playing for fun. There are lots of positioning things that you can learn at any age. Knowing where you need to be is simple; the hard part is figuring out how you are going to get there and to think two steps ahead. Technique wise it might take a bit to get rid of bad habits you may have picked up but in a non-competitive environment it shouldn't matter much anyway. Clearly you're out there to have fun and get some exercise, so do exactly that!
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Jul 24, 2012 19:05
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Baibai Kuaikuai posted:I know it's not directed at me, but thanks for this, I find it very interesting. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I haven't really been practicing soccer at any point during my life, without pickups during elementary school. Just recently I've been having alot of fun practicing dribbling, juggling and shooting. I basically do it for fun, but since I'm so old, is it pretty much moot to practice at all? I mean, since I've barely done any technical training before, does this mean it's too late? I don't mean playing in any semi-pro teams, obviously, I'm thinking more in amateur games. Will I not see any difference, mainly because I'm so old? I know it's sort of a dumb question, because obviously there should be some improvement if you keep at it, but, basically it's too late? It's too late for a dramatic improvement. The first step to becoming a really good player is to get all of your basic technique up to the point where it's all second nature and you can control and pass without thinking about it. This means you can use your concentration on reading the game, spotting runs, picking gaps. That makes a good player great - good players can put the ball exactly where they want with their first touch, but great players are aware of the space around them so they pick the right place to put it as well. In your case the ship has probably sailed on reaching that first hurdle with your technique, but it doesn't mean you won't get anywhere from practising. What it means is that you'll need to concentrate more on the ball and will have less time to look up. It won't stop you improving as a player though. There are lots of successful professionals who are really not that great with the ball at their feet, but they make up for it with what they do without it. For an attacker that might be just making intelligent runs into space, for a defender it comes down to positioning and reading the game that we mentioned before. Don't give up practising your technique, but focus on a good first touch, looking up, playing a forward pass into feet for a teammate. When you're happy that you've got that nailed, focus on reading the game - any time that your team is in possession, regardless of where the ball is, ask yourself constantly "if the ball came to me right now, who would be the best person to pass to?" Then when it does come to you all you have to do is focus on doing what you already decided. Defending is just the reverse - which opponent is in the most dangerous position right now? Can I do anything to reduce that or do I need to yell at a teammate?
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Jul 24, 2012 21:56
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Scikar posted:Defending is just the reverse - which opponent is in the most dangerous position right now? Can I do anything to reduce that or do I need to yell at a teammate? I can't agree with this more, I see so many goals happen in pickup when someone thinks a guy in the wing can't take a shot because the guy in the wing is at an odd angle or the defender himself is blocking off the goal by sitting in the box with the keeper. CLOSE THAT SPACE and force the fella with the ball to make a mistake, or to at least pass it away. Never let shots happen never ever never.
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Jul 25, 2012 05:48
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edinbro rugby
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Scikar posted:It's too late for a dramatic improvement. The first step to becoming a really good player is to get all of your basic technique up to the point where it's all second nature and you can control and pass without thinking about it. This means you can use your concentration on reading the game, spotting runs, picking gaps. I try to spend atleast 1-2 hours on the ball every day now, and hope to keep that up during the amateur season. That should see some improvements after a year, atleast, I hope.
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Jul 25, 2012 09:23
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Re: y'all's offside query; that one has to be seen for a definitive answer. I can imagine a few situations where a player runs like that and has some kind of effect on the defender and I'll give him offside, but strictly as written, then I'm probably going to give the benefit of the doubt to the attackers and play on. (Unless of course player 2 had gobbed off at me five minutes ago, in which case I'm giving him offside on general principle.)
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Jul 25, 2012 11:43
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Playing 5's on monday and we're going against a team with two huge defenders (6'5", 6'7") that are almost impossible to get past in the small confines of the pitch. Any advice? I'm faster than most players but their legs are so loving long and they hardly ever leave their station screening the goal. Biggest fellow on our team will probably be 6'0", so we aren't going to force our way past. They also have a fat goalkeeper who is surprisingly agile - the perfect goalie for 5's.
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Jul 25, 2012 12:05
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In that specific situation the ball was said to have "deflected" off the defender. If you take it as he was unable to play the ball regardless of what Player 2 did, then there is no offside to call. But if he could have taken the ball down but chose to wham it out because Player 2 was hunting him down, then it's offside for "interfering with an opponent". A "deflection" means the defender couldn't have chosen to play the ball anyway so it's not offside. It's actually pretty clear-cut in this case.
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Jul 25, 2012 12:45
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The defender's positioning is clearly based on the offsides player's positioning. There's no way you can say it's clear cut.
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Jul 25, 2012 23:32
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So I joined an new team after moving to Victoria - went to the try-outs - great I'm in the team! However they are trying to play 4-2-3-1, and keep putting me at the central attacking mid (trequartista I think it's called?). Anyway, I'm used to playing as one of the strikers or a winger in a 4-4-2 and I'm totally goddamn lost, I never seem to find any loving space on the attack (we are playing against our training team which also does 4-2-3-1 so I am constantly crowded out by at least 1-2 of the opposing holding mids) so hardly receive the ball, and then on defence they just pass it around me. Apparently I'm doing ok, but I feel like I have zero impact on the game at all. Any advice for this position?
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Aug 11, 2012 20:18
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The lovely thing is that you're in a position where you either run everywhere to find/create space or you deal with the limited space you have. It's all dependent on what your coach/manager wants, but going deep and building from the center circle is how you draw defenders out and make space for yourself up the pitch. But, if your coach/manager is saying he wants you staying forward more, then it's about making opposition defenders think that someone else is marking you. When one of those defensive midfielders steps towards another player (usually the one with the ball), you're behind him far enough where you would feel comfortable getting the ball but close enough to make the other midfielder/CB think that you're marked.
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Aug 12, 2012 00:00
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Alctel posted:So I joined an new team after moving to Victoria - went to the try-outs - great I'm in the team! My advice is don't think that you can't move into other team mates zones. With that position in that formation you should have the freedom to run wherever you drat well please. Use that position to look for exploitable mismatches in the defense. Too many times when people are in new formations they have a tendency to confine themselves too much in invisible boundaries.
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Aug 12, 2012 14:55
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anyone reading this go to sjsu and wanna play some intramurals?
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Aug 12, 2012 22:01
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Alctel posted:Apparently I'm doing ok, but I feel like I have zero impact on the game at all. Any advice for this position? It's probably second only to wingback in terms of how much running you have to get through, but you don't have to sprint as much. If you're used to playing on the wings already then that's your answer, keep moving, drift wide, and help the wingers double up on the full backs. It's a slog against two DMs by yourself because one will follow you and the other will cover the space, but you'll get a lot of space against 4-4-2 teams if they press high. Last thing to try is to play 1-2s with your DMs. One of their DMs will eventually get pulled up the pitch so at least you'll be 1v1 after that.
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Aug 13, 2012 12:58
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Thanks for the advice guys, had another practice and I felt like it went better. I basically just ran around and tried to support more on the wings, tried to drift into any holes that opened up in the middle, and if none opened up then sat on the defense with the striker ready to make a run. I spoke to the coach and he said I was doing fine. Looking forward to playing against a 4-4-2.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:01
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Alctel posted:So I joined an new team after moving to Victoria - went to the try-outs - great I'm in the team! It all depends on your coaches style, but we play a 4-2-3-1 at the college I coach and we look for that underlying forward to find space in between the lines. If you can receive the ball in between the midfielders and their back four you will be dangerous as hell, because at that point you should have two wide players making runs behind them out wide, and a forward making a diagonal run off the center backs. If teams are matching your formation that you play space is going to be tough to find and the game will be ugly, but we tell the underlying we want him on the ball every time he can get on it. Generally speaking the more touches we get in the center of the pitch in an attacking position the more dangerous we will be. We play that position as more of a forward, so while he has defensive responsibilities (put back pressure on the center mids when they get it) we give them free reign to make any runs behind the defense they want. We also look to exploit the 3v2 in the central midfield whenever we get the ball, and we have 3-4 different progressions we use based on how teams defend us.
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Aug 15, 2012 22:00
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Anyone reading this in the Murfreesboro/MTSU/Smyrna area?
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Aug 15, 2012 22:09
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Soo, I had my first proper game in about 9-10 years! I had a blast and we won 9-0 against a pretty bad opposition. I was playing RB, and actually really enjoyed it. I stayed back mostly when we had possession, while the 2 other fullbacks was pushing more forward. I really understand now what you guys mean about "panicking" when on the ball. Obviously, since I have no match experience, it really does make you do mistakes and lose your overview of where players are. I was just wondering if you had any tips for a new RB? Basically, I'm too unsure when to go in for a challenge when someone is coming down on the wing. If there is another unmarked man behind me, I don't want to just run in blindly and make huge open space where I just came from. But usually our keeper just shouted at me to run into a challenge, and I just usually followed his cues for what to do. I guess that sort of communication is how things go down? Also, I didn't really take any chance to run into space where it was very obvious I could have, just because I was afraid to lose the ball. How often should I try to push just a bit forward? I want to be able to do that more, but I don't want to screw up my defense. Oh, and any basic tips for making decent tackles? When the opposition just pushed the ball away from them and ran I was usually able to catch up with them, but when they are blocking the ball with their bodies and I come in from behind, it makes it hard to get it away from them. It was overall really fun, kind of scary; and I gave it what I got, basically, and my team said I was doing okay. Looking forward to our next game and I hope to improve in the coming months.
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Aug 21, 2012 10:07
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 03:49 |
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Baibai Kuaikuai posted:I was just wondering if you had any tips for a new RB? Basically, I'm too unsure when to go in for a challenge when someone is coming down on the wing. As a fellow RB, I'd say you should not be too eager to go in for a challenge. In general you should just wait until you are quite sure you can get the ball. There are many other ways to make life hard for an opponent. Keep him away from the goal, show him to the outside, make his least dangerous option the easiest one, and invite him to make mistakes. If he's blocking the ball, trying to tackle would be stupid, but you can still try to get him off balance with a subtle push. As for going forward, it depends on too many factors to give an easy answer. Just go forward as much as you can, and as long as you can manage to get back in time. That's why speed and stamina are so important for fullbacks.
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Aug 21, 2012 15:28
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