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Bad Munki posted:You can't carve built walls. Carved fortifications can only come from natural stone. If you want to place fortifications where there is no natural wall, you must build them as fortifications. You can carve built walls to fortifications. I tested and they designate just fine. E: also confirmed via wiki: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Fortification I know fortifications can't be built on. That's why I built as walls. I wanted to leave options for the next overseer 
OhCrap fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 30, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 23:09
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Zapdos posted:More on this - Those goblins will probably never leave now. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1598 Now, I have had a goblin siege where the army set up shop for three loving years, and camped out with human and additional goblin sieges. That was absolutely hilarious, because the human sieger horses started giving birth, and the foals were affiliated with my own fortress. This ended in hilarity with mothers stomping their own foals to death.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:14
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OhCrap posted:You can carve built walls to fortifications. I tested and they designate just fine. What the f? When did this happen? I'm dead certain it wasn't always like this. The hell? 
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Jul 30, 2012 23:20
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If he's like me, he'll deliberately not do whatever you guys suggest. I believe we've discussed this before 
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Jul 30, 2012 23:20
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Leperflesh posted:If he's like me, he'll deliberately not do whatever you guys suggest. That's why we have to propose every conceivable thing, so that the overseer is forced to do the inconceivable.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:23
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Leperflesh posted:If he's like me, he'll deliberately not do whatever you guys suggest. I kind of expect him to ignore us. Especially me 
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Jul 30, 2012 23:23
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So, what's taking so long on the armor front?
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Jul 30, 2012 23:29
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Looks like it's about time to have another baby. Last one has outlived its usefulness.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:31
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OhCrap posted:Found on a freshly engraved wall in Kilrudzat c.238. Removed by order of Overseer. I'm a little behind on posts, but this is Best Idea.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:49
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Pickled Tink posted:I dunno. He died. There's a difference between caging and killing. Commanders often die in sieges. They'll probably hang around his carcass until they decide to leave. Look at the bottom of the comments. It also has happened to me before. Its possible they'll go away but if not I'll have to take drastic measures if we want a supply of fuel. Vox Nihili posted:So, what's taking so long on the armor front? No charcoal. Not many logs either.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:58
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 7th, Opal 238 No longer needed. Apparently it is no longer any use for me to be carving this into the rocks they have me working on. Because it seems I did not have enough jobs to do, I now get to be a mason. our glorious incompetent overseer has managed to forget to put someone in charge of Zaodai. What kind of dwarf lets another die of thirst. No dwarf should die like that. I have begun talk of gross negligence on his part and call for his immediate removal. I say we rise up and pick a new dear leader. Forget Sankis. All should worship Ugath! With this hammer and sickle we can take our home and make it into the way we want and forget about the master plan. From this day I will begin my revolution by marking everything they have me 'mason' with these words. DOWN WITH ZAPDOS WORSHIP UGATH
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Jul 30, 2012 23:59
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SECRET JOURNAL OF FIDDLER THREE GRANITECLOISTER IF YOU ARE NOT FIDDLER THREE GRANITECLOISTER, DO NOT READ 27th Sandstone 238 Mother gains much favor in the Fortress after making a Kill of the Giant Toad that made a Kill of Squad Leader OhCrap's War Dog. Mama is brave and strong. Sometimes I sit and watch the Creations of Luck at their Training until Father comes and scolds. I think he does not wish for me to become Soldier. I think he likes the Music that I make and wishes this to be my Task, but I do not wish this. I wish to follow Mother into battle and make many Notable Kills for Bronzestabbed. 23rd Timber 238 Happy Birthday to Me. I requested *Copper Battle Axe*. I received -alder flute-. I am not impressed. But now I am of age. To celebrate, I spent the day watching the Creations of Luck at their Training. Father tried to scold, but I did not heed. OhCrap and Mother are strong warriors. Soon I will petition Grandfather to assign me to their ranks. Grandfather is dour and a warrior, but he is weak of arm like Father, so I have little hope. 2nd Moonstone 238 Grandfather has not heeded my petition. He claims I have no Skill at Axery, and thus cannot join the Creations of Luck. But how can I gain Skill if I cannot do Training with the Creations of Luck? 20th Moonstone 238 Father is Taken by Mood. Mother is busy with Training. Grandfather concerns with the Goblins outside the gates. Perhaps this is my chance! None save Me have noticed, but Soldier Murderer Zaodai has died in his Chain. Mother says the best Training is to feel one's Axe bite flesh. And here is much flesh! It is against Tradition. Sod Tradition. This will be exciting! 5th Opal 238 I am unlucky. As I carried Soldier Murderer Zaodai to the Caverns to do Training, I was seen. But I thought quickly and I dropped Soldier Murderer Zaodai and I shouted 'WHAT? THIS IS NOT MY -ALDER FLUTE-! I AM SURPRISED AND ALARMED!' It seems they believed me, and I will not be blamed for violating Tradition. But I have lost my practice flesh, and so I cannot do Training. It is a sad day. FiddlersThree fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 00:06
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FiddlersThree posted:
I am not a dead murderer.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:09
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Pickled Tink posted:I dunno. He died. There's a difference between caging and killing. Commanders often die in sieges. They'll probably hang around his carcass until they decide to leave. Nah, there's a bug for dead ones too. Looking at that, it's because he's drowned, and they can't path to stand next to him before deciding to leave. So yeah, they may be permanent residents now.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:15
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Zapdos posted:I am not a dead murderer. Gah! Too many Z names. Sorry, gramps -- it's fixed.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:17
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quote:Who could have ever foreseen this occurrence? "Zaodai, in the past" posted:Also, pretty sure this is the end of our family line. I can't recall many people survive a prison sentence without either dying of thirst or being slowly taken apart by random hammerings for jobs you can't do because you're chained to a wall. Oh, right. Well that was a profoundly unsatisfying way to die. Getting dicked over by a metagaming overseer.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:25
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Zaodai posted:Well that was a profoundly unsatisfying way to die. Getting dicked over by a metagaming overseer. I have to agree, I think it's pretty lame. Don't you need a well to keep prisoners from going without water if you're keeping them in a cage? Why keep him in a cage instead of chaining him near food? Why wouldn't you go check to see if he was thirsty or dehydrated and let him out and play it like "He escaped!" Don't get me wrong, it's not that he died. If he'd armored up Zaodai and sent him off single-handedly to fight the gobs, I'd be all over that, but this seems so... sloppy.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:35
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Yeah, that was a hell of an anticlimax.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:43
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I don't see how manually convicting Zaodai is any more of a stupid gamey solution than deciding that multiple dwarves walking by the dwarf murder can't hear or witness anything, or put two and two together in pretty much any way. Zaodai's ignoble death because of obscure game mechanics is lame but that's how dwarf fortress rolls. It would've been interesting to see the Zaodai story arc continue on as a ghostly dwarf for a bit, but apparently a tomb is already being prepared. If tombs are destroyed/vandalized/deconstructed, can ghostly dwarves arise again?
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Jul 31, 2012 00:45
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Zaodai posted:Who could have ever foreseen this occurrence? I think it's just part of your fiendish escape plan. You will surely have vengeance yet.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:50
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Rawkking posted:If tombs are destroyed/vandalized/deconstructed, can ghostly dwarves arise again? Oh yes, indeed.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:50
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OK guys, let's not forget that Zaodai-dwarf murdered another dwarf while having a temper tantrum. And, the well not working isn't exactly the overseer's fault either. Nor is the invasion trapping them inside. And I believe there was already a jail, so the only option he really had was whether or not to convict. It's possible to arrange drink stockpiles exactly in a way that lets a prisoner work, but not every overseer is going to know how to do that. I don't know if you can just "let out" a convicted felon, and if you do, they may wind up getting a hammering instead? I'm hardly a DF neophyte but if I don't know the answer off the top of my head, it's a good indication we're in expert-level DF knowledge territory. Regardless: I'm inclined to be extremely lenient. I ask overseers not to deliberately murder named dwarves, but beyond that, nobody is obliged to be especially cautious about keeping them alive. This LP is, explicitly, for newbie overseers as well as people with tons of DF experience. If you can manage to keep the fortress reasonably fed and not die to a single goblin ambush, you're competent enough to give Overseeing a try... so I do not expect anyone to be an expert on, say, keeping prisoners alive while a siege is happening and there's no well. So I'm sorry your pixels died but please don't attack the overseer just because your end was less than heroic. 90% of dwarves in the fortress will barely get mentioned at all, much less get to have a subplot revolve around them. Be happy you didn't wind up as Anonymous Immigrant #234, who does nothing but haul stones his whole life before dying ignominiously along with 60 other dwarves due to random tragedy, warranting only a brief mention of his passing among the long list of the dead. Because that's a pretty likely outcome.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:50
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Here's hoping the next migrant wave comes armed, then.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:56
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Leperflesh, I specifically said that it wasn't a matter of my death not being heroic. It's the fact that I was manually convicted based on evidence that nobody in the game itself had, and then left to die. That's stupid. If I had murdered a dwarf and been caught, well that's game mechanics. But I didn't. My conviction cited loving combat logs as the evidence. "Whelp, God told me you did it and now you died of thirst. Not my fault!:iamafag:" is something you should drat well be able to hold an overseer accountable for. It wasn't even metagaming for the sake of the narrative. There was no purpose to it.
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Jul 31, 2012 01:09
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I just realized I forgot to pick a gender when applying for a Dwarfing(tm). Since I'm pretty close to
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Jul 31, 2012 01:15
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If nobody in-game reports being a witness, there is literally nothing else in-game you can do to investigate a murder. You can't actually question witnesses, or examine evidence. The game just doesn't provide that. Because the crime/conviction mechanic is superficial and incomplete. According to your argument, even if someone is murdered in a crowded room, if the game doesn't provide you with murder reports, the overseer's hands are tied and they should do nothing. Is that right? I don't think that's the only reasonable interpretation. I think it's reasonable for the person playing the overseer to narrate a reason for conviction - arbitrary or not. And in this case, it's hardly arbitrary to say "Zaodai was the only one throwing a violent tantrum that day, and then we found someone in their bed with their head bashed in. It was probably Zaodai." There's no rule that dwarves, or The Rare Ship, have an advanced, or even reasonably fair, judicial system. Evidence certainly suggests otherwise (you either have murderers getting a few weeks in jail, or you have random dwarves who didn't fulfill a noble's production order getting beaten to death, and neither case involves any sort of trial). YeOldeButchere posted:I just realized I forgot to pick a gender when applying for a Dwarfing(tm). Since I'm pretty close to Sure, taken care of. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 01:15
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I convicted you because it was obvious, there were seriously like 10 dwarves watching your dwarf go in and kill Asehujiko who would have reported it if this game wasn't buggy as hell. And it was indeed already established in the narrative. You were put in a cage because that's what OhCrap had set up. I did not know that caged prisoners would need a well to survive. In short, its really what Leperfish said. In this game you basically are God. Would you rather I leave dwarves who were alone in the caverns to die in order to avoid metagaming? Deal with it, man.
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Jul 31, 2012 01:17
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All this time we were worried about dwarven deaths causing a tantrum spiral in Bronzestabbed, but never once did we imagine that the real tantrum spiral might be right in this very thread. 
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Jul 31, 2012 01:26
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Zaodai, I'm sorry to see your dwarf's life ended where it did, but in the context of the 'last surviving member of the doomed family' plotline. Zapdos' imprisonment of your dwarf seemed reasonable, and your death tragic. Also, charging someone with a crime is an intentional game feature, so how is it meta-gamey? Think of it as the possibility for a different narrative arc for your little dude. Here's hoping you're chosen for overseership, deconstruct your tomb, and haunt Zapdos. It's a game, try to have fun with it.
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Jul 31, 2012 01:27
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I don't think the crappy thing is the wrongful conviction, I'd totally use that mechanic to full effect if I was an evilseer. But the whole "You died of dehydration because I forgot there was no well and didn't pay attention" is just clumsy. I don't mind evil overseers or crazy overseers or autistic overseers, but clumsiness isn't fun and enjoyable, it's just like watching somebody Let's Play any game where they screw something up because they screwed it up. And I think it's perfectly acceptable to criticize that. I don't think we should murder Zapdos, but I think that it's made the LP a little less enjoyable, as has the turtling response to the goblins.
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Jul 31, 2012 01:59
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^^^There were two years before Zapdos to set up a well, one of the essential parts of any fortress. The blame can't be all put on him if theres even anyone to blame at all. If I was playing I would've been sure the convicted dwarf was beaten instead of imprisoned because I think its funny. The military would also be mostly dead or injured because I wouldn't put up with goblins sitting around outside. Basically what I'm saying is Zapdos is being nice. Someone needs to dig straight down to the magma sea asap though. Wood is for burning to ash to spite elves, not powering forges. You guys make me want to put in for a turn as overseer so I can show you what its like when the overseer views dwarfs as the most expendable resource of the fortress. ProfessorGroove fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 02:02
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Pussy Cartel posted:All this time we were worried about dwarven deaths causing a tantrum spiral in Bronzestabbed, but never once did we imagine that the real tantrum spiral might be right in this very thread. Speaking as a former overseer allow me to express how incredibly aggravating it is to have people whinging about what you are doing while you're doing it. None of you get a say.  . For future reference, Zapdos, I recommend summary excutions
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Jul 31, 2012 02:05
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 I am the last of my Clan. My last son is Dead. I am 152 years old and I have Outlived my Clan. Ugath, You are cruel. What have I done? What have We done? I know I will not die now. This is Hell enough. Please, Overseer. Go to the skies or the Earth will swallow us all.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:05
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Pozzo posted:Speaking as a former overseer allow me to express how incredibly aggravating it is to have people whinging about what you are doing while you're doing it. None of you get a say. Didn't Leperflesh say already that it's just not cool for people to start jumping all over an overseer for their decisions? And really, Zapdos already said he didn't know cells needed their own wells for prisoners, and they weren't the ones to set the cages up in the first place.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:11
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TildeATH posted:I don't think we should murder Zapdos, but I think that it's made the LP a little less enjoyable, as has the turtling response to the goblins. Honestly, I think what is making this LP a little less enjoyable is people bitching about the Overseer. Who gives a poo poo? It's a single pixelman. Jesus, give Zapdos a chance to tell the story he wants to tell, and if you don't like it, take your own turn and do things your way.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:12
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Pussy Cartel posted:Didn't Leperflesh say already that it's just not cool for people to start jumping all over an overseer for their decisions? And really, Zapdos already said he didn't know cells needed their own wells for prisoners, and they weren't the ones to set the cages up in the first place. Sorry I may not have made it clear but I was basically agreeing with your sentiment there. I remember the same thing happening with Boing in Gemclod. People take these LP's too seriously sometimes.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:15
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FiddlersThree posted:Honestly, I think what is making this LP a little less enjoyable is people bitching about the Overseer. Who gives a poo poo? It's a single pixelman. When I first signed up, my third or fourth post was to criticize Boing for the way he was playing Gemclod. It irked me, though I can't quite remember why. But what's the big deal about making a criticism? You know, I don't have a conniption fit when I hear people complain. Neither should anyone else. Why is it that people can't complain or criticize overseers? Is it some kind of unspoken rule? I think this LP has been going well, I don't think we should murder Zapdos, and I said that, but sure I think things could have gone better and I don't think it's a problem to say it. Edit: Holy poo poo! I think Pozzo was referring to my earliest diaper-days of SA... Maybe that's what I was pissed at, but I remember disliking Fire Snakes.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:17
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TildeATH posted:I don't think the crappy thing is the wrongful conviction, I'd totally use that mechanic to full effect if I was an evilseer. But the whole "You died of dehydration because I forgot there was no well and didn't pay attention" is just clumsy. I don't mind evil overseers or crazy overseers or autistic overseers, but clumsiness isn't fun and enjoyable, it's just like watching somebody Let's Play any game where they screw something up because they screwed it up. And I think it's perfectly acceptable to criticize that. Technically there is a well.  And as for not noticing him being dehydrated, those status arrows don't show up on caged dwarves.As for the goblins I fully expected them to clash with the merchants. Now that they haven't I will have to figure something else out.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:17
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Idles posted:Zaodai, I'm sorry to see your dwarf's life ended where it did, but in the context of the 'last surviving member of the doomed family' plotline. Zapdos' imprisonment of your dwarf seemed reasonable, and your death tragic. Seeing as I'm going to turn up a Cheesemaker or something and walk into a goblin ambush, I'd say it's a pretty good dwarf story.
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Jul 31, 2012 02:17
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Oh my god, who gives a poo poo about Zaodai's stupid death? Not only is it unbelievably trivial, but it was a loving accident - if there's anything a person playing Dwarf Fortress can be forgiven for, I think it's an accident. Let's not forget the narrative of Zaodai's "wrongful" incarceration was never actually acknowledged in the updates. edit: whoops, i didn't refresh
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Jul 31, 2012 02:24
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