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SlyFrog posted:Well, there is always that issue. I would prefer not to have to hunt for a new job in this horrific market (and at this point in my life, with a few kids and a wife to support).
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Aug 22, 2012 19:44
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evilweasel posted:What parts of your job do you like now or liked in the past? Honestly, nothing that I can remember. That may just be my present mood. I guess at one point, I felt like I was learning how to do things and gaining knowledge. I didn't so much enjoy that (because I wasn't really that interested in what I was learning how to do), but it was at least better than the rote repetition I go through now. I was a straight from high school to college to law school to this firm type. I really do not have any life experiences outside of law, and this law firm in particular, where I can say I enjoyed doing X more (or even aspects of X). 10-8 posted:Can you move into a different department in your firm? Maybe lit? Doesn't seem feasible - recognize that you are talking to someone who has been practicing now for roughly 15 years. Part of this, quite honestly, was probably just a mistake of doing this for so long, not liking it, and now being stuck. Part of that is really having no idea what else to do - I've been doing this so long, and it has been weighing on me so long, that I think I've reached the point that it doesn't seem like there is anything else out there that is interesting. I also frankly don't know if litigation would help. I think it would help with the "boring" thing, but would probably exacerbate the, "Oh my god you're at war and if you gently caress up you're going to be yelled at and killed and sued and oh my god," part. Well, assuming that I am not going to turn pro at League of Legends anytime soon, or that people will pay me top dollar to play a game of Agricola against a mediocre player. Again, I fully recognize that I'm whining here - I'm just trying to knock something free.
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Aug 22, 2012 19:52
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My biglaw friend went in-house for a client doing the same job, but a relaxed 9-5 and every hot-button issue gets passed on to her former firm. I don't know if that's a possibility for you, but the money drop was not nearly what she expected since like you she had years of experience.
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Aug 22, 2012 20:30
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SlyFrog posted:Law is boring and terrible. SlyFrog posted:...play a game of Agricola... Just thought this deserved some recognition. SlyFrog's job is so bad he fantasizes about playing Agricola for a living. ...and suddenly I feel sad because I just realized I would rather do that too...
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Aug 22, 2012 20:43
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woozle wuzzle posted:My biglaw friend went in-house for a client doing the same job, but a relaxed 9-5 and every hot-button issue gets passed on to her former firm. I don't know if that's a possibility for you, but the money drop was not nearly what she expected since like you she had years of experience. I have thought about this, and that does bring to mind one thing I understand - one nice thing about what I do is that I'm not tied to a desk. Most people can't leave the office at 2:00 in the afternoon if they feel like it. I can (assuming I don't literally have a call or a meeting scheduled at that time). Of course, that often means I have to be back in the office at 7:00 at night, but that is what it is. So with that said, in-house would be a possibility, but it would need to be something like the above. My fear is going in-house, taking the pay reduction, and finding out it is less pay for some type of "light" hours that actually means 7:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m., only a half day on Saturday, and you are stuck at your desk the entire time. Of course, those hours might be fine if I found that I didn't hate the work. . . . I will never lie and tell people that I work extraordinarily hard here. My average week is probably (if I'm being honest) 50-60 hours. So I'm not flailing because of the crushing amount of work. I'm flailing because I can't stand the work that I do. And that makes it feel like a large amount of work, even though objectively it isn't. That's why I'm trying to adjust my attitude. I realize rationally that in some ways I have a good gig. It's just that my mind won't play along with that. Perhaps it's just extended manchild syndrome. Though I assume most manchildren don't actually stick it out for 15 years doing the thing they don't like. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 21:28
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Start doing something else. You probably make enough that you can throw $10-20K a year into seed money for whatever random project you want to do, which is way more than most people have for their random projects. There's got to be something you know a lot about people will pay money for. Either that, or branch out into some obscure legal sector that might be fun. I'll use gaming as an example because it's the only one I know anything about these days: the number of lawyers in it is tiny, the opportunity is huge, and nobody knows anything (even the practitioners). You could write two law review articles and instantly become an expert, then wind up testifying before state legislatures because you're probably not as crazy as (or possibly more crazy than) the guy who does it wearing a giant Stetson hat. There are probably several other versions of this (healthcare admin, I'm looking at you.)
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Aug 22, 2012 21:38
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You can even just submit a legal definition to Urban Dictionary and become the leading authority on it!
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Aug 22, 2012 21:41
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I'm sure each company is different, but her in-house job is hardcore 9-5. Like "GET OUT NOW THE DOORS LOCK GOGOGOGOGOG". The difficulty for her was the switch from a firm to corporate mentality. In the corporate world the "we're smart and cool, law school sux lol" atmosphere is gone, and everything is gung ho for the company. People send out non-ironic emails extolling the company values and how they should be reflecting in legal work. It's not "bad", just a different type of irritation. She's extremely happy though, and will attend a million team-building exercises as long as she isn't coming home at 8pm pissed off at the world. Maybe a way to dip your toe in the water is have some informal conversations with in-house counsel at potential companies. Go out to lunch and see what's up. Even if it's bad, it'll make you feel less trapped in your current job.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:53
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Legitimate Rape update: My definition was actually printed in the Washington Post! http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...d010_story.html I'm really part of this scandal now! So proud. :')
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Aug 22, 2012 22:06
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MoFauxHawk posted:Legitimate Rape update: My definition was actually printed in the Washington Post! http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...d010_story.html No offense but you've mentioned your urban dictionary entry like four times in the last day or two... Maybe give it a rest? You sound like a child actor in his thirties who keeps mentioning That One Hit Movie I Was In When I was Ten, You Know, The One Where I Was The Star.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:15
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entris posted:No offense but you've mentioned your urban dictionary entry like four times in the last day or two... Maybe give it a rest? You sound like a child actor in his thirties who keeps mentioning That One Hit Movie I Was In When I was Ten, You Know, The One Where I Was The Star. What, this is cool. It's an update on it, it's not like I'm just repeating the same thing. The Washington Post is legit. I'm not like a former child actor, I'm like a happy child who's happy about something that's in the middle of happening right now. Edit: I wouldn't have made the earlier post about it if I had known that I would see it in the Post ten minutes later. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 22:20
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If that were my entry and it made the Washington Post and ATL I'd have mentioned it every time too.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:22
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SlyFrog posted:I hate my job and it stresses me out; what to do? What are your wife's thoughts and feelings about this? Is your dissatisfaction spilling over into your family life? Do you have enough saved to tide you over for a few months of not working? Can you relatively easily pare down your lifestyle if you get a lower paying job?
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Aug 22, 2012 22:23
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Argh, I got no offered. Time to drink the rest of the week before 3L starts (though I was going to do that anyway). Good thing I've been doing OCI and poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:38
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Adar posted:Either that, or branch out into some obscure legal sector that might be fun. I'll use gaming as an example because it's the only one I know anything about these days: the number of lawyers in it is tiny, the opportunity is huge, and nobody knows anything (even the practitioners). You could write two law review articles and instantly become an expert, then wind up testifying before state legislatures because you're probably not as crazy as (or possibly more crazy than) the guy who does it wearing a giant Stetson hat. There are probably several other versions of this (healthcare admin, I'm looking at you.) I've actually got some time to do this. My other thought was starting a patent prosecution support firm, doing poo poo like sequence listings and IDS preparation, because it seems like everyone's loving dumb about it in law firms and it sounds really easy and I could probably make a bunch of money. Like a firm was seriously considering paying $40k to have a sequence listing done that my wife said would take her 3 days of solid work.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:36
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Meatbag Esq. posted:Argh, I got no offered.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:42
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evilweasel posted:If that were my entry and it made the Washington Post and ATL I'd have mentioned it every time too. Sure, but I wouldn't have mentioned it when I first put it up. I think my issue is that the Washington Post mention is cool... the previous posts about it? Kinda spoiled it for me when it actually got mentioned in a newspaper.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:05
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entris posted:Sure, but I wouldn't have mentioned it when I first put it up. I think my issue is that the Washington Post mention is cool... the previous posts about it? Kinda spoiled it for me when it actually got mentioned in a newspaper. I didn't mention it when I first put it up, I mentioned it when it was made "Urban Word of the Day" and started going viral. And I didn't post about the ATL article either, somebody else did.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:07
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Hahahaha ok clearly I am just jealous that my entries on urban dictionary never went viral. My b. Grats on the post mention, that is pretty cool! You should print it out and frame it.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:10
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Meatbag Esq. posted:Argh, I got no offered. Sup no-offered brah. My buddy at a T14 got no-offered from two firms today, what a loving bummer. So here's the known figures for NALP firms in my small market: Firm 1: 1/2 Firm 2: 2/7 Firm 3: 1/5 Firm 4: no summer program Firm 5: no summer program Firm 6: no summer program Firm 7: 1/3 loving ouch.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:16
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joat mon posted:What are your wife's thoughts and feelings about this? Ok, wall of way too personal text coming up: #1 - Wife wants me to do "what makes me happy" and is concerned about me (from a standpoint of, she doesn't think the pressure and stress are healthy long-term). She believes she is not materialistic, and would not harp at me to make more money (or give me grief for making less money). On the other hand, realistically, she is a spendthrift, and the sort who doesn't really tighten the pursestrings when there is less money to spend. She thinks she will, she talks a good game, but I know from past experience that she is one of those types who always "just doesn't know where that money went or that I spent so much last month." So good and bad. (I'm not bashing her, I'm just being brutally honest regarding an area that has impact on this - it is a weak point for her, alongside many strong points. I'm also not exactly an angel in this department either, but my "stupid expenditures" tend to be laughable in the "law firm partner" scheme of things - I feel guilty about owning too many $40 videogames and boardgames that I don't end up playing, for example, which over the grand scheme of things probably amounted to a couple thousand dollars spent over the last five years combined.) #2 - Yes, my dissatisfaction is spilling over into family life, if for no other reason than my being dead tired and wanting to zombie out even after a normal day of work. I don't sleep at night (thus adding to the dead tired thing). Plus I'm sure it is pretty clear that I'm worked up and fairly anxious most of the time. I'm also growing more concerned about what if this doesn't go away when I change jobs - then I will simply be the new guy at a place with less "slack" than I have here, but feeling just as miserable. How the hell do I know if a change of jobs will help, or if I'm just a slacker or something? #3 - I do have enough saved up to tide me over for a few months of not working. However, I'm hyper conservative as to most things, and terrified that in this economy a couple of months of not working will turn into a couple of years of not working and that the entire family will be eating out of a dumpster. #4 - This is partially answered by #1. Right now, I have no debt. As in literally no debt. My home is paid for, cars are paid for, and I have no student loan debt. This is only because, however, of the large amounts of money I have made in the last 15 years. Our home is not amazing (and no, not just not "big partner" amazing, but basically a starter home for even standard middle class families - think split level generic sub-2,000 square foot McHouse.) I have some savings. But our spend is far greater than what we end up with to show for it in assets, if you understand my meaning. Basically, we've done well, but that in part is only because of the amounts of money I made. We haven't done well enough to be able to live for the next five years with no income, for example. And again, I'm afraid that we, meaning my wife in particular, will be unable to scale back from the "oh, I just signed the kids up for another camp, it's was only $300 each but this is the last one" type of decisions she makes. Attempts to establish budgets, etc. in the past have not worked for any length of time. So in sum, we don't spend more than we earn (and we have saved some, stocked the 401k, etc.), but that's simply a function of how much we earn. So *too long, did not read* for #4, we theoretically should be able to pare down our lifestyles, but: (i) my wife doesn't work and does not have a degree that would allow her to make a significant income, and while she says she's game on working, etc. she never follows through so I simply cannot rely on that as an out; and (ii) I have kids, etc., who depend on me, meaning I can't make the decision to go off the grid and wear discarded burlap sacks for clothing. Meatbag Esq. posted:Argh, I got no offered. Then I see poo poo like this and I realize how loving selfish I sound. Yet that doesn't help me stop wanting to flee, just makes me more paranoid that I've objectively and rationally got a good thing that I'm loving with and will die homeless if I leave it behind. I am sorry though, it really does suck. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 00:21
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I feel like we need to capture Slyfrog's feelings in a pokemon ball to put in the OP. There are no jobs, but even if you make it big this is what you get to look forward to. He's just a decade ahead of many other posters, destined for the same grey shores...
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Aug 23, 2012 01:22
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SlyFrog posted:Well, there is always that issue. I would prefer not to have to hunt for a new job in this horrific market (and at this point in my life, with a few kids and a wife to support). I will say that it's significantly easier to find a new job while you currently have a job than it is to find a job while you're unemployed. It's one of the more hosed up things about the current economy. Things I enjoy about my job right now: the feeling that I might be able to pay off all my loans in five years and then have the entire rest of my life in front of me and having significantly more freedom to do what I really want. I run marathons as a hobby, so working step-by-step towards long-term goals is something that I take as a challenge. I also enjoy most of the people I work with. There's a strange feeling of satisfaction I get when the hardass partner from hell sends me a response that just says, "OK."
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Aug 23, 2012 01:55
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I'll live. I've got a couple years of prep and pros experience backing up my resume so with my gunner grades I feel like I will have to make an effort to not end up with something. I already have 2 callbacks from this year, and after OCI is done I'll have 9 more potential ones.
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Aug 23, 2012 01:57
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SlyFrog's posts are truly horrifying. Its like reading a good Lovecraft story where it just keeps getting deeper and deeper and worse and worse and you dont think you can be any more horrified and then... More, SlyFrog! I want you to get drunk and go stream of conciousness on us.
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Aug 23, 2012 03:00
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Meatbag Esq. posted:I'll live. I've got a couple years of prep and pros experience backing up my resume so with my gunner grades I feel like I will have to make an effort to not end up with something. I already have 2 callbacks from this year, and after OCI is done I'll have 9 more potential ones. Please tell us more what it's like to be able to work in IP.
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Aug 23, 2012 03:45
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I've actually got some time to do this. My other thought was starting a patent prosecution support firm, doing poo poo like sequence listings and IDS preparation, because it seems like everyone's loving dumb about it in law firms and it sounds really easy and I could probably make a bunch of money. what, is fartlaw too good for you these days?
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Aug 23, 2012 04:03
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If Petey and I can still talk about cakelaw what, three years later, then that guy can surely talk about whatever dumb Internet bullshit he wants.
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Aug 23, 2012 04:37
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Slyfrog, aren't you a partner in transactional? Have you considered banking? Hours are pretty tough and its arguably more stressful because you don't get paid if the deal falls through, but you can enjoy pushing that boring work you are hating on to your former colleagues. Edit: Oh and the work is a lot more interesting
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Aug 23, 2012 05:01
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Also, while I obviously know very little about your situation, is there any chance of breaking away and starting your own firm? My dad did that when my sister and I were pretty young and my mom didn't/doesn't work. He was a junior partner at a small to mid-sized union-side firm. You'd do the same kind of work, but the entrepreneurial aspect would at least be exciting. Edit: Though I think I remember you talking about how two partners bring 85% of the clients. So it sounds like this would be pretty difficult to do. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 05:05
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MoFauxHawk posted:What, this is cool. It's an update on it, it's not like I'm just repeating the same thing. The Washington Post is legit. I'm not like a former child actor, I'm like a happy child who's happy about something that's in the middle of happening right now. Hey I think it's cool :fistbump: Also, does anyone have the pdf of that 120 page poker ruling from, like, this morning or yesterday or whenever? I can't find it and all my pdf ruling finding skills are exhausted after a cursory google search. I'm generally considering doing a FAQ in PITR (which I lurk and leech advice from) but am probably too lazy to do that without Unanimo's commitment to helping me.
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Aug 23, 2012 08:26
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I think that banking or starting my own firm both fall in the camp of being too entrepreneurial (and stressful). I am not a social butterfly. My success has come from managing existing clients, not hitting the road and doing good pony shows to find new ones. I'm being negative here and shooting things down, I know. I think that i have been hosed up by all of these years of doing something I'm not fully suited for. I'll give it a rest. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 13:59
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SlyFrog posted:I think that banking or starting my own firm both fall in the camp of being too entrepreneurial (and stressful). I am not a social butterfly. My success has come from managing existing clients, not hitting the road and doing good pony shows to find new ones. Have you tried teaching on the side? Even if you don't make any money off it, you might find it fulfilling.
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Aug 23, 2012 14:05
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I have thought about teaching. But not on the side. Given my current energy levels, my current job, and my family, I'm having a hard time imaging doing anything on the side.
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Aug 23, 2012 14:59
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entris posted:No offense but you've mentioned your urban dictionary entry like four times in the last day or two... Maybe give it a rest? You sound like a child actor in his thirties who keeps mentioning That One Hit Movie I Was In When I was Ten, You Know, The One Where I Was The Star. entris so jelly it hurts
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Aug 23, 2012 15:16
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SlyFrog posted:I'll give it a rest. Share your pain with us, my brother 
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Aug 23, 2012 15:19
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/texas-judge-warning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2quote:An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in. quote:Attorney Rod Hobson jokingly put up U.N. flags outside his Lubbock office, KJTV reported. "When I saw the story I thought, once again, Lubbock is going to be the laughingstock of the entire nation," said Hobson. "What makes it so sad is he is our elected county judge, who is in charge of a multi-million dollar budget. That is scary. It's like the light's on, but no one is home... I'd just like to think he's off his meds." Texas Bar Rule 8.02: quote:Rule 8.02 Judicial and Legal Officials Hobson's comment probably doesn't trigger 8.02(a), but am I the only attorney who thinks that practicing attorneys should not publicly criticize judges (even if the judges are being stupid)? I think its unseemly to publicly criticize a judge or court. Maybe I'm just prudish, I dunno. entris fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 15:19
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:Have you tried teaching on the side? Even if you don't make any money off it, you might find it fulfilling. If you could find the time, this would be a great idea. I know in our program we are always in need of adjuncts, and the ones we have generally really like it. The time commitment isn't that high. A class is 3 hours per week and prep and grading is another 2-3. I know a couple who even have their paralegal do some of the grading. You say you've thought abou teaching, but not as full-time. As one who's made the transition from practice to teaching, I can tell you it's the best thing I've ever done. The stress level is low, it's fulfilling, and I love how I get to start over every semester. Plus, this summer I worked one day a week, which is great if you have a family. The only downside is that your pay would be lower, and it sounds like your wife's spending habits might be an issue there. Although at my school you can teach extra classes for more money, and some make quite a bit extra doing that, especially in the summer.
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Aug 23, 2012 15:27
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entris posted:Hobson's comment probably doesn't trigger 8.02(a), but am I the only attorney who thinks that practicing attorneys should not publicly criticize judges (even if the judges are being stupid)? I think its unseemly to publicly criticize a judge or court. Maybe I'm just prudish, I dunno. I'm fine with it, but I have absolutely no respect for our profession and I think elected judges should not exist.
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Aug 23, 2012 15:57
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Just because it's from the code doesn't mean you should use code tags!
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