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TL posted:I farted around with it for about an hour last night and found exactly one Chocograph piece. Getting Chocographs is pretty much random. It's weird in that it gets easier the more you get rewarded from it: some Chocograph pieces upgrade Choco, and he digs faster when his color changes. It's one of those minigames where you either like it or you don't. If you're on an emulator, it rolls the new location on your first peck after digging up your last treasure.
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Oct 4, 2012 01:26
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 04:44 |
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I beat Final Fantasy yesterday and didn't have too much trouble with the final dungeon. I had my White Wizard and Black Wizard use Heal'ing items each turn so I could save on healing spells. The bosses in that game were pretty quick, but I understand why. Most of the challenge is making it to the boss with limited spell numbers. When you get to the boss, you spam what's left of your magic and hope to get in turns before the enemy. Chaos was pretty easy- killed him in four turns. It was a pretty fun game!
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Oct 4, 2012 04:47
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Eggie posted:Chaos was pretty easy- killed him in four turns. It was a pretty fun game! You know how I can tell you didn't have a Black Belt/Master is because you took four turns instead of one.
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Oct 4, 2012 04:58
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I'm trying to replay XIII after getting to "the good part" and quitting due to how mind numbingly boring it was and god drat who thought this battle system was a good idea. 1. The AI is stupid, I have you equipped with a plus strength weapon, please use _____strike. 2. Slamming X constantly and maybe some L1 is not fun or tactical. It sure is flashy though. 3. Oh no, my leader dropped to 0 HP I guess that's game over even though my other two characters are at full health and I have 99 Phoenix Downs. Some battles against random monsters can get you a game over in 10 seconds if they just focus on your leader before your AI friends get their full ATB gauge. Can we stop with this jRPG trend of AI party members? Please? It's not good. If you're going to do this at least make it actiony (Tales, SO) and not menu driven.
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Oct 4, 2012 06:22
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It's existed since the NES days so I don't think it's really a "trend."
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Oct 4, 2012 06:23
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It's not like you lose much progress if the RNG screws with you and a random encounter focus fires on your leader right away. And if it keeps happening you might be too low-leveled or you're not being smart enough with your paradigms.
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Oct 4, 2012 06:50
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You know "the good part" is just more battles but in a more open environment? It's not that good.
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Oct 4, 2012 06:53
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If you don't like the battle system you're not going to like 'the good part'.
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Oct 4, 2012 06:57
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Dr Pepper posted:It's existed since the NES days so I don't think it's really a "trend." It was kinda dogshit in Dragon Warrior 4 and yet here we are!!! I actually think it's fine in fast real-time systems like FF12 and 13, but in turn-based games like DQ4 and Persona 3 it's just a silly, infuriating way of pumping up the game's difficulty.
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Oct 4, 2012 07:09
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It was kinda dogshit in Dragon Warrior 4 and yet here we are!!! But the player controlled the AI in FF12, and they could still give manual inputs whenever they wanted, so that's not a great example of that style of battle system working.
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Oct 4, 2012 07:13
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Belzac posted:I'm trying to replay XIII after getting to "the good part" and quitting due to how mind numbingly boring it was and god drat who thought this battle system was a good idea. Belzac posted:1. The AI is stupid, I have you equipped with a plus strength weapon, please use _____strike. Belzac posted:2. Slamming X constantly and maybe some L1 is not fun or tactical. It sure is flashy though. Proper use of the paradigm system is about 10x more tactical than just about every other combat system in the mainline Final Fantasy series. The non-boss fights (and, frankly, everything in the storyline except Barthandalus) are braindead easy, but that's literally standard for Final Fantasy. Like, you can face-smash almost every one of them. This isn't new. It's a feature of the series. Belzac posted:3. Oh no, my leader dropped to 0 HP I guess that's game over even though my other two characters are at full health and I have 99 Phoenix Downs. Belzac posted:Some battles against random monsters can get you a game over in 10 seconds if they just focus on your leader before your AI friends get their full ATB gauge. Belzac posted:Can we stop with this jRPG trend of AI party members? Please? It's not good. If you're going to do this at least make it actiony (Tales, SO) and not menu driven. You are pretty much trashing the one good thing that came out of an otherwise lovely game. And if you had read the thread at all, you'd know there's a fair bit of consensus on that. Individualized party actions have been largely relegated to SRPGs. You may want to check those out, because I have a feeling you are going to be rather disappointed with the future of standard RPGs. And just to be 100% crystal clear, if you are complaining that the game is too faceroll easy and non-tactical, and in the next breath, complaining that enemies are blowing you up before you can act, all while not having gotten past the training wheel content, the problem is the person holding the controller. What I'm sayin' is that there are known knowns and that there are known unknowns but there's also unknown unknowns. Things we don't know that we don't know. You don't know you are bad at this game (and probably games in general). People come in here a lot asking for help/tips/strategies, or making meaningful feedback (right or wrong). Those people get tossed a bone, even if (especially if) they are  as gently caress, because they act like they have some sense. You came in here and poo poo the bed like you's a hard rear end mothafucka. You aren't. Maybe you should work on that first, then we can help you not be bad at the vidya games.
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Oct 4, 2012 08:41
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Toshimo posted:Uh... it has to work that way. It's a resource-free combat system. Otherwise your party would be invincible. I can't even understand this complaint since they let you just restart the fight immediately. Yes, this means Baldur's Gate, too. I don't give two shits if it's relevant to the story, it's the supreme god-king of dick moves. Toshimo posted:What I'm sayin' is that there are known knowns and that there are known unknowns but there's also unknown unknowns. Shut the gently caress up Gin Rummy, this ain't got poo poo to do with Final Fantasy. This quote isn't even relevant tangentially, you just wanted to drop it 
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 09:23
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Leader death game over is a perfectly acceptable mechanic in an RPG, and I've never had a problem with it. I agree that if it was put into FFXIII, you'd be basically invincible.
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Oct 4, 2012 09:38
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I could be remembering this incorrectly but I'm pretty sure 13-2 lets you switch to the other character if Serah or Noel dies, but maybe gives you a game over if both of them do even if a monster is still standing???
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Oct 4, 2012 09:48
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Toshimo posted:You are pretty much trashing the one good thing that came out of an otherwise lovely game. And if you had read the thread at all, you'd know there's a fair bit of consensus on that. Individualized party actions have been largely relegated to SRPGs. You may want to check those out, because I have a feeling you are going to be rather disappointed with the future of standard RPGs. I don't know about the rest of you, but my opinion on AI party members in games goes like this: Unless they are playing exactly the same as I would in every scenario (whether or not this is optimal or not) then you'd better give me as much control as possible. Final Fantasy XII worked because you could literally set up the (admittedly primitive) AI yourself to do what you want. Tales and Star Ocean work because you can tell the AI a general strategy and change it at will and tell them what they can and can't do. Making the party members controlled by AI when you have no input over what they do is dumb. Worse, it's a turn based menu based RPG, so there's not even any good reason for it. It's not an action game where it's impossible to control more than one character. You want an RPG with an active battle system where you control multiple members from a menu and often need to coordinate attacks? Look over here, I have Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy X-2 in my hand, both of which let you control a full party at once and don't need any AI to help you out. Also, party leader meaning game over is stupid. If Phoenix Downs were going to break the game if your party members were allowed to use them, then they shouldn't have been easily available if at all. Final Fantasy 13's battle system has a lot of good points-it's fast, it's easy to understand, it's flashy, it's streamlined and well balanced-but let's not ignore the stuff it screwed up on.
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Oct 4, 2012 10:33
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Controlling 3 characters at once in FFXIII's combat system sounds like a nightmare, there's just too much going on at once. Also you can give your FFXIII party members general strategies that you change mid-combat; they're called Paradigms.
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Oct 4, 2012 11:03
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Brother Entropy posted:Controlling 3 characters at once in FFXIII's combat system sounds like a nightmare, there's just too much going on at once. How is there more going on in FFXIII compared to the examples I used? Hell, in FFX-2 you have three characters with a lot more options of what to do, in a game just as hectic. Paradigms aren't quite strategies, they're just lists of things to do that you choose between. However, each list is small enough there isn't much point in having a general strategy, which I will grant as one of the game's better points-no pointless abilities, just the important ones. When I say general strategies, I mean more "prioritize healing spells over offense" or "gang up on one enemy" or "conserve MP". These obviously don't apply to FFXIII, where the AI generally does the smart thing anyway. I guess to best sum up my viewpoint is, let me do everything myself if possible. If not, then let me give general rules and orders. I guess after that is FFXIII, where I say fight and things fight, or I say heal and things heal. It works and can't screw up, but I'd still rather do it all myself.
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Oct 4, 2012 11:28
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Brother Entropy posted:Controlling 3 characters at once in FFXIII's combat system sounds like a nightmare, there's just too much going on at once. Even controlling one manually can end up costing you time and thus damage considering how quickly battles can go. You'd have to really slow down battles to effectively control three characters, and that would just make battles incredibly long and kill the pacing in the game. Did you know there's an option that slows down the battle speed? It gives you plenty of time to plan your strategies and execute them without wasting time. It also makes battles take twice as long and is just boring as poo poo considering 90% of the time Auto-Battle will be doing the same thing anyway. The battle system is designed to be speed-based. Thus the AI and implementing Auto-Battle, which actually does a good job doing what most people would do anyway. For the few times where you wouldn't go with what a role does (like certain situations for Medic, Sab, and Syn), that's where controlling the character and doing stuff manually comes in handy. Of course, it'd be nice if you could switch the leader mid-combat, and it'd be nice if character development wasn't completely linear, and it'd be nice if it didn't take until two-thirds into the game to actually be free to make your own party and plan three-person paradigms. Luckily, 13-2 actually fixed all that and added Pokemon to the mix, so there's that at least. And like Zombie's Downfall said, it even fixes that pesky problem of giving a Game Over when the party leader falls. FF13's battle system was designed in a way such that it can't really work without AI-controlled characters. For this system, the strategy isn't really what actions you choose, as the game will do as good a job automatically a large portion of the time, but simply which paradigms you choose. I can definitely understand if you don't like that type of battle system, and I'm a bit mixed on it myself (though generally positive for it), but considering how significantly different it is from any other battle system in a RPG, some of the standard complaints for turn-based RPGs don't really apply for this one simply due to its design.
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Oct 4, 2012 11:33
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Belzac posted:Can we stop with this jRPG trend of AI party members? Please? It's not good. If you're going to do this at least make it actiony (Tales, SO) and not menu driven. I enjoy actiony RPGs quite a bit myself, but I also have always loved the turn based/menu focused combat system that the FF series provides in its various forms throughout the years. It is a big part of what makes a final fantasy game imo. I don't want them to throw that away. There are plenty of other action RPG games to choose from if I am not in the mood for what FF delivers.
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Oct 4, 2012 13:35
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I could be remembering this incorrectly but I'm pretty sure 13-2 lets you switch to the other character if Serah or Noel dies, but maybe gives you a game over if both of them do even if a monster is still standing??? FFXIII-2 did allow mid-combat leader switching and it honestly ended up kind of dumb. It wasn't a massive game-ruining change but it made an already easy game even easier most of the time. That isn't necessarily defending FFXIII's choice but it does have a noticeably detrimental effect on the gameplay in this case. A large party of that is probably due to FFXIII-2's balance being completely hosed and not it being a problem with the mechanics itself tho'. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 13:41
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Yeah, XIII-2 is just way easier in general. For example, I was able to kill the Long Gui before finishing the story, which is just crazy after XIII.
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Oct 4, 2012 17:06
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Long Gui can be taken out pretty easy if you use Vanille's poison summon trick.
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Oct 4, 2012 17:15
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The White Dragon posted:You know how I can tell you didn't have a Black Belt/Master is because you took four turns instead of one. Um, well... I did have a Master. He was at level 29. Did I do something wrong?  Also, a few pages back one goon was talking about a new Final Fantasy VI hack. Does anyone know what that hack is?
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Oct 4, 2012 18:19
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Eggie posted:I beat Final Fantasy yesterday and didn't have too much trouble with the final dungeon. I had my White Wizard and Black Wizard use Heal'ing items each turn so I could save on healing spells. I haven't played it for a while now but I seem to recall a lot of dungeons where you also had to walk back out after beating the boss, so you'd have to make sure you saved a spell point for the Warp or Teleport spell or whatever it was (or just walk out before that was available). ========= I'm about three hours into FF13 playing it for the first time and am really enjoying it so far, what does this say about me?
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Oct 4, 2012 18:58
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Ross posted:
You're a mom.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:01
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Eggie posted:Um, well... I did have a Master. He was at level 29. Oh, well his level wasn't high enough then, that's all. I'm of course kinda assuming you're playing the original game where Chaos has 2000HP and a Master can do ~3000 to him at a sufficiently high level.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:02
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Ross posted:I'm about three hours into FF13 playing it for the first time and am really enjoying it so far, what does this say about me? You're a pretty cool person.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:02
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Ross posted:I haven't played it for a while now but I seem to recall a lot of dungeons where you also had to walk back out after beating the boss, so you'd have to make sure you saved a spell point for the Warp or Teleport spell or whatever it was (or just walk out before that was available). It's not terribly unusual. The really tedious poo poo doesn't come in for a good several hours. Chapters 5 and 10 (oh god, gently caress this chapter) are probably the worst in the game.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:04
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Unlike apperently every reviewer ever I like when XIII is linear as hell but is throwing awesome visuals. The plot is pretty whatever but it does one thing well, keeping the action moving. Then you get to chapter 11 and everything comes to a screeching halt.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:51
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Ross posted:I'm about three hours into FF13 playing it for the first time and am really enjoying it so far, what does this say about me? I also had fun in the first few hours. Check back in 15 hours when you realize you're still doing exactly the same poo poo.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:54
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voltron lion force posted:I also had fun in the first few hours. Check back in 15 hours when you realize you're still doing exactly the same poo poo. No the worst part is the opening of the game when it dawns on you you aren't earning any XP for what turns out to be a fairly lengthy and cutscene heavy portion of the game. After that its just a string of dissapointments building up to quitting when you hit the open plains.
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Oct 4, 2012 19:58
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It doesn't matter if you're earning XP because character growth is gated.
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Oct 4, 2012 20:00
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Dross posted:It doesn't matter if you're earning XP because character growth is gated. Which is dissapointment number 3. Dissapointment number 2 is being unable to change your classes at the outset once you've earned them. Three is being gated and four is constantly switching parties with no control and five is having your paradigms get erased.
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Oct 4, 2012 20:01
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Barudak posted:Which is dissapointment number 3. Dissapointment number 2 is being unable to change your classes at the outset once you've earned them. Three is being gated and four is constantly switching parties with no control and five is having your paradigms get erased.  Is this guy number 6? Hey we all got together and had a meeting and decided to Eletrokick your party leader.
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Oct 4, 2012 20:05
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Caius was great because Liam O' Brien can deliver any lovely dialogue and make it sound like Shakespeare. FFXIII-2 still has a lot of silly dialogue, but I think it's more on purpose in XIII-2 than it is in XIII. I just really hope they don't have Ali Hillis speak in that deep monotone they've been having her do as Lightning when LIGHTNING RETURNS rolls around, but the odds of that are sadly unlikely. Whatever, it means more Liam O' Brien as Caius and maybe even more Sazh. Lightning is weird in that I'm surprised they haven't tried to cuten her up yet. It's still sort of novel to have a jrpg protagonist lady who is sorta serious and surly without her entire characterization being like that (basically the detached 'cool beauty' type Japanese schoolgirls like). I think that affects a lot in how people read Lightning. If Lightning was a dude we'd just see her a "sorta detached JRPG protagonist dude'. But because she manages that as a lady, which we dont see in games, people (especially teenagers) read her as this extremely capable and unflappable badass. Then again I still remember what happened to the last popular Square female protagonist when her third game rolled around 
keet fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 20:30
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penguinmambo posted:Then again I still remember what happened to the last popular Square female protagonist when her third game rolled around quote:Eve, desperate to save Aya, switched bodies through her mitochondria powers, which resulted in "Overdive" being born. When Overdiving, however, Aya's soul/consciousness was destroyed and reborn as the Twisted. Without a consciousness in Eve's body, Eve had been pronounced as dead which is why Kyle later states, "...Eve is dead." The death of Eve's body resulted in the creation of the "High Ones". 
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Oct 4, 2012 21:01
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Its funny because thats not the bad part. Thats just the stupid, stupid part.
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Oct 4, 2012 21:02
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You wish that was the stupid part.
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Oct 4, 2012 21:04
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Mitochondria powers is really funny to me.
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Oct 4, 2012 21:04
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Barudak posted:Which is dissapointment number 3. Dissapointment number 2 is being unable to change your classes at the outset once you've earned them. Three is being gated and four is constantly switching parties with no control and five is having your paradigms get erased. Gated character growth prevents you from steamrolling the whole game. See: FFXIII-2 and no character growth gating. Changing classes is kinda silly since each character is tuned for three specific Paradigms, and the other Paradigms they are (mostly) poo poo in, so they don't give you them until the end of the game. Party switching is my favorite mechanic in the series, especially because of IX.
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Oct 4, 2012 21:29
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