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KodiakRS posted:Is it just me or do all of those look like copies of certain other aircraft only slightly more...pointy? Communications array. The soviets always put them up there on their early T-tails to limit drag and interference. Powercube fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Oct 29, 2012 |
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Oct 29, 2012 15:10
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Powercube posted:Communications array. The soviets always put them up there on their early T-tails to limit drag and interference. The Trident had a similar style, too. It was just an early jet-era T-tail thing.
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Oct 29, 2012 17:02
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Air Horror-yo Part III The flying experience… aka moving violations IL-62 Let’s start with P-885, the newest flying and non VIP IL-62M in the fleet. This was my ride on PEK-FNJ  P-885 Cockpit by Powercube, on Flickr This is a random photo from said aircraft as it is rather impossible to take a picture of the horrors I witnessed on board. After boarding in PEK, the propaganda music started. Operatic music glorifying Kim Il Sun, bizarre noise music from the Ponchobo Electronic Ensemble. The general surreal experience was only enough to distract me briefly from the overall combination of amazement and terror of flying on an improperly maintained IL-62M. I think it is probably easiest to run through the oddities, then the horrors. So I will do it in point form for the remainder of the post. Oddities: IL-62s pressurize on the ground. Shortly after engine start up, in fact. You can feel a bump on your eardrums before you start taxing. The engine start up order differs from western airliners. Instead of alternating sides, the engines go in order (1,2,3,4). No one could ever explain the reason to me, but I can’t imagine it has anything to do with safety. Eh gently caress it, the rest of the oddities are horrors Worst offense: When the gear drops, the aircraft depressurizes. Temporarily, yes, but the pressure definitely goes away for about 10 seconds. According to the IL-62 manual, this is not supposed to happen. This means somewhere within the fuselage, there is a leak of enough size near a gear door that lets the air out. Those of us with western aviation knowledge knows that this means the rapid strain on the fuselage must be creating metal fatigue somewhere. The aircraft will, one day, rip itself open like that Aloha 732. There is no “blow out” strapping running across this fuse. Other offenses: JS crew drop the gear drat early, probably around 18,000 feet. They do this because the hydraulics are not super reliable and they like to have ample opportunity to make sure they are down by short final. Unfortunately, the IL-62 has TERRIBLE low speed control; even on the M. Putting the gear down requires you to fly at very low speeds. As such, well…. You can see where I am going. Flying with the gear down means the crew has to constantly ride the throttle. The response time on the Soloviev engines is… lagging. So usually prior to throttling up, they ride the spoilers. I am not sure if all IL-62 crew do that, there are not many left flying. I can’t imagine many do, though- considering that even back in the Soviet Aeroflot days- they never dropped the gear that high. Tu-134-B-3  P-814's Cockpit by Powercube, on Flickr Where do I even start here? Air Koryo’s captain for this flight told me that on average, he does about 50 hours per year on the 134. Probably less. The Tu-134-B-3, like all Tu-134s is a rocket sled. The landing speed is the highest of any non-fighter aircraft in the Russian inventory. It requires plenty of experience to get one safely in and out of a short airfield. The autopilot does not work. It used to work, but they could not tell me when that last was. I imagine prior to 1994. The aircraft, somehow, has a rudimentary Garmin GPS unit duct taped to the center console. It might work; it does appear to be battery powered. In terms of navigational equipment, I imagine this is all they have to rely on other than maps from the late 1940s. Unstable approaches: the Tu-134 S-turns into airfields much the same way as a Mig-15. With experience, this is fine. Inexperienced, you get a lot of terrifying low to the ground turns to get on the centerline. On our return into FNJ, we had to do a go around not just because we were 30 degrees off the centerline; but because there was an ox on the runway. Stay tuned for part IV!
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Oct 29, 2012 17:03
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Thanks for the awesome posts. Did I miss the how/why you were there?
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Oct 29, 2012 17:04
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slidebite posted:Thanks for the awesome posts. No, no. I was up there to do this. Just this. The entire country is like visiting a concentration camp at work, but the aviation is interesting if you're a Russian plane junky who is strangely okay with dying at the hands of inexperienced crew.
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Oct 29, 2012 17:07
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Powercube posted:Worst offense: When the gear drops, the aircraft depressurizes. Temporarily, yes, but the pressure definitely goes away for about 10 seconds. According to the IL-62 manual, this is not supposed to happen. This means somewhere within the fuselage, there is a leak of enough size near a gear door that lets the air out. Those of us with western aviation knowledge knows that this means the rapid strain on the fuselage must be creating metal fatigue somewhere. The aircraft will, one day, rip itself open like that Aloha 732. There is no “blow out” strapping running across this fuse.  Ahaha, holy loving poo poo. Will we even hear about it when that aircraft disintegrates when they lower their gear?
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Oct 29, 2012 18:23
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movax posted:
That depends, honestly. If it crashes in China, we'll hear about it. If it crashes carrying aviation enthusiasts from foreign countries whilst in DPRK... the odds are about 40%. If it is just carrying a few non Chinese tourists and Koreans back into DPRK... Well, guess there was a bus crash or hotel fire.
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Oct 29, 2012 18:40
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movax posted:
Considering the fact that a train explosion that leveled several entire city blocks and was so massive that debris were found literally in China went un-reported, what do you think?
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Oct 29, 2012 18:55
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Polymerized Cum posted:Considering the fact that a train explosion that leveled several entire city blocks and was so massive that debris were found literally in China went un-reported, what do you think?  What the hell is going on in there?
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Oct 29, 2012 19:00
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movax posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryongchon_disaster
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Oct 29, 2012 19:02
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I've been there! But I'll get to that later.
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Oct 29, 2012 19:11
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Polymerized Cum posted:Considering the fact that a train explosion that leveled several entire city blocks and was so massive that debris were found literally in China went un-reported, what do you think?  it was reported almost immediately. Also, an aircraft crash would be reported because the ROK and US intel communities monitor DPRK air traffic extremely closely and when something goes down it trickles out of the intel communitity into the unclassified world. If it was assessed to be a passenger airliner, the reporting to the media would be almost immediate.
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Oct 29, 2012 19:24
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front wing flexing posted:
The problem with that is that is that every commercial flight in the country gets a fighter escort. For most of the time it was either a Mig-15 or a J-8. I'd be more worried about one of them crashing into us. They could also always say a fighter jet crashed, then say the imperialist pigs are lying about a commercial plane. Though I agree with what you said. Powercube fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 29, 2012 |
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Oct 29, 2012 19:31
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Powercube posted:The problem with that is that is that every commercial flight in the country gets a fighter escort. For most of the time it was either a Mig-15 or a J-8. I'd be more worried about one of them crashing into us. They could also always say a fighter jet crashed, then say the imperialist pigs are lying about a commercial plane. Though I agree with what you said.  intel people know the difference. By a myriad of classified means of course but also, we do bi to tri daily counts of fighter aircraft. Also, the KPAF and KPA as a whole are pretty dumb and we usually know where they're going before they take of via certain means and we check to see if they made it via imagery. If you think we track their planes, you should see us follow their TRAINS!
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Oct 29, 2012 19:38
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Dont come into AI to show off your intel skills after you get slammed in GIP for trying it there.
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Oct 29, 2012 19:43
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front wing flexing posted:If you think we track their planes, you should see us follow their TRAINS! All you had to do was follow the drat train, CJ! But seriously, every flight gets a fighter escort? It's like an evil empire out of a bad anime.
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Oct 29, 2012 19:44
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Godholio posted:Dont come into AI to show off your intel skills after you get slammed in GIP for trying it there. But I didn't get slammed Shimazu is not an authority on IO and psyops or kinetic strike options in those areas of intel. But thanks for importing drama. The anecdote was relevant to Powercube's awesome stories. But thanks for trying the GIP cool guy crew thing outside of GIP. In short, go gently caress yourself. Edit: And of course your mailbox is full. Don't message me with your bullshit GIP drama. dr cum patrol esq fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 29, 2012 |
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Oct 29, 2012 20:00
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Polymerized Cum posted:The Trident had a similar style, too. It was just an early jet-era T-tail thing. IIRC, the actuators for the elevators and horizontal stab trim are in the central pod.
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Oct 29, 2012 21:38
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Powercube posted:The problem with that is that is that every commercial flight in the country gets a fighter escort. For most of the time it was either a Mig-15 or a J-8. Looking forward to pictures of your fighter escort, and also Datangshan.
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Oct 29, 2012 22:37
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Some good high speed footage of NASA doing Airframe crash testing. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d2c_1351480059 ~21 Minutes of amazing stuff.
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Oct 29, 2012 22:48
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Slo-Tek posted:Looking forward to pictures of your fighter escort, and also Datangshan. We call them "Little friends" I imagine front wing probably saw all of them on his screen. The problem with photographing them was that they were always only visible out the very top or very bottom of the window. Hence, not within camera angle. We asked them if they could fly next to us for a bit, but we just got denial of their existence. Trying to figure out which area to write about next, tempted to just do one on FNJ before the next flight stories. I am a little behind today because of this:  SP-LRA by Powercube, on Flickr Question actually? If I upload images directly to SA... do they show up in Google etc? Powercube fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 29, 2012 |
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Oct 29, 2012 23:20
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MrYenko posted:IIRC, the actuators for the elevators and horizontal stab trim are in the central pod. I'll check my IL-62M manual to confirm, I want to say that is definitely true for the Tu-134. I know some have comms and some just have motors and some have both.
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Oct 29, 2012 23:31
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My father travelled all over the world as a technical consultant for coatings & plastics for Rohm & Haas from the mid-Sixties until he passed away in 1995. He flew on just about every airline and in & out of every airport. He flew on puddle jumpers, Stratocruisers, DC-6s on up to 747s. He marveled at Kai-Tek. The only time he was ever truly afraid was flying Aeroflot. LOT came a close second. His favorite Aeroflot story was when a busload of passengers drove aimlessly around the ramp, pulling up so the driver could holler up to the aircrew for their destination.
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Oct 30, 2012 00:25
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F’ed NJ What can I say about an airport with no ILS in a valley that is often filled with low cloud and fog? Some people I was travelling with insisted that FNJ must have at least a VORTAC or NDB. I saw no evidence of either piece of navigational equipment. I believe that all civilian flights in DPRK are done visually. Obviously, it’s a death trap. Moreover, I doubt the runway that is still “operational” has been resurfaced in thirty years. FNJ’s two runways are a huge distance from the terminal. To get to 01-19 (the current runway) the taxi time is about ten minutes. It would turn out that FNJ shares its “runways” with an airbase. Or at least, that is what I have been led to believe. Either way, the layout is miserable, and I highly doubt that the single tower that I posted a shot of earlier is high enough to allow for adequate view of landing and departing aircraft. Regarding air search radars. Well, I saw many of them; but none of them were actually on. No rotation, no azimuth adjustment, no pile of dead birds (though I suppose someone would eat them very quickly there). This  FNJ's Terminal by Powercube, on Flickr is the interior of the so-called “temporary” terminal. As of earlier this year, the old “soviet” terminal was demolished so that a new terminal with jetbridges and updated murals could be constructed. The new terminal has four bathrooms. Though only two of them are ever actually unlocked. There’s a small duty free shop before customs that sells the usual North Korean crap… and a slightly better one after that sells things like Chinese bottled Fanta. The new terminal will likely open on the twelfth of never. Sondok I have no photographs of the tower due to “top secret” military aircraft being parked next to it, but the “tower” at Sondok looks like something taken straight from the set of M*A*S*H, then bombed a couple times for good measure. Given how many flags I saw, I am starting to think that they don’t even have radios to communicate with. The runway at Sondok is very, very, short. So short I was worried that our Tu-134 would have gone for an excursion.  Sondok Passenger Terminal by Powercube, on Flickr That’s the pax terminal. We weren’t allowed inside for reasons that are still unclear to me. Orang When I figure out how to subtly post photos, you’ll be hella amused by Orang. There is nothing to say about Orang other than the one photo I want to post without google seeing. It is a major air force base full of aircraft that may actually have been delivered in 1950. Powercube fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 01:26
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Powercube posted:F’ed NJ But they got drat fine shrubbery!
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Oct 30, 2012 01:32
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Powercube posted:Orang Hahaha, I have so many guesses as to what the picture is of, and they all make me laugh. Also is it bad that I can tell the Sondok pax terminal has a picture of The Great Leader/Eternal President on its roof?
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Oct 30, 2012 01:36
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iyaayas01 posted:Hahaha, I have so many guesses as to what the picture is of, and they all make me laugh. No, and regarding the guesses. Come on, share with the class!
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Oct 30, 2012 02:25
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Whoa, that's quite a trip you took there. Was this aimed at aircraft enthusiasts specifically or how did you get in there exactly? I can't imagine they ever let you out of sight of the usual handlers that follow you literally everywhere, so I'd be quite curious as to how you got to see all that stuff, including military planes. I only went there for a day, and also only to Kaesong, so this is pretty interesting to me. Also, how you took pictures of things you weren't supposed to take pictures of. They made sure to check every single picture on my camera before I left the country. Also, could you expand on the airspace control issue? I always figured that the local and provincial governments didn't really do all that much in terms of strategic decisions (which I would assume airspace control falls under), since most of those are centralized as far as I know.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:01
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parrhesia posted:Whoa, that's quite a trip you took there. Was this aimed at aircraft enthusiasts specifically or how did you get in there exactly? I can't imagine they ever let you out of sight of the usual handlers that follow you literally everywhere, so I'd be quite curious as to how you got to see all that stuff, including military planes. I only went there for a day, and also only to Kaesong, so this is pretty interesting to me. Also, how you took pictures of things you weren't supposed to take pictures of. They made sure to check every single picture on my camera before I left the country. Regarding the photos: When you have a country that does not allow things like advanced digital cameras, external hard drives, or truecrypt. You can hide copies of photos ANYWHERE, even on your camera- and they can look all they want and just find photos of smiling happy children. How I got in: A shipping expert from England runs a company called Juche Travel Services- he's a bit of a plane freak so there is an aviation enthusiasts tour. If you really want to go (and please, please don't be that dumb) I'll include a link to it later, and if you are really serious- his email address. Airspace: North Korea is far, far from centralised since Kim Jong Il died. It used to be that the provinces were dictated by the state and the airspace divisions were a means of control. My understanding is that now each province glares at each other and tries its best to control its meager resources. Hence, quibbling over overflight permission could be a good way to get yourself a VHS of a south korean soap opera if you bargain right.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:24
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Powercube posted:Regarding the photos: If your hardware was ever out of your possession, there's no way I'd ever trust it again. I have a friend who's a lawyer specializing in international corporate law, and he went there for business a few years ago. He bought a clean laptop, installed what he needed on it, and then trashed it when he got back.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:30
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Regarding e-mail and additional tour infos: Nah, I'm good. I think my one day tour was enough, I don't have to go back there any time soon. As for hiding the pictures: I thought so, too. But the border guards in my case knew how to operate the cameras or asked you to show them. They even made sure to check both internal memory and SD cards. I guess you could have smuggled another SD card in your underpants or something, but it certainly would have taken a bit more effort to get pictures out in my case. Hence my surprise. e: I hope you bought some North Korean alcohol, though. That poo poo's the bomb. I brought back a bottle of so called "Mushroom Absinthe", since that sounded the worst. It was the most vile thing I have ever tasted and I have seen people throw up after half a shot glass of that stuff. Babies Getting Rabies fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 03:34
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Phanatic posted:If your hardware was ever out of your possession, there's no way I'd ever trust it again. I have a friend who's a lawyer specializing in international corporate law, and he went there for business a few years ago. He bought a clean laptop, installed what he needed on it, and then trashed it when he got back. Yeah, if I were going there for work- I'd do the same. Also never use the phone. Though I do have to say the fact that the DPRK even bothered letting a lawyer in is kind of wild. I take apart my laptop pretty regularly, so I'll check that part out. But I can wipe the hard drives whenever I want as it is. quote:As for hiding the pictures: I thought so, too. But the border guards in my case knew how to operate the cameras or asked you to show them. They even made sure to check both internal memory and SD cards. I guess you could have smuggled another SD card in your underpants or something, but it certainly would have taken a bit more effort to get pictures out in my case. Hence my surprise. New cameras have a "hide photo" mode. So even if they go through the SD cards (which they never actually did)- they still would not find them.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:36
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front wing flexing posted:
Should be good now. If you think I give a poo poo about forums drama you missed my point.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:42
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I just wanted to say that the posts about North Korea is some of the more interesting stuff I have read on these forums. You might even want to make a dedicated post about your trip. There would definitely be lots of interest in it.
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Oct 30, 2012 04:31
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Any answer to the Orang photo question? In case you haven't checked reddit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffEYqGGYXRk The helicopter buddies recover a crashed RC plane from a tree.
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Oct 30, 2012 04:49
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Air Horror-yo VI Quick update while I figure out how to do the IL-76 report and find out how to surreptitiously post photos from Orang and Sondok Props The IL-18RV P-835 was a VIP aircraft in its early life. It was not just any VIP aircraft either. You see, President Kim Il Sun used to use it. He loved it so much he even had a set of rudimentary instruments put into his quarters so he could see how the aircraft was doing.  Kim Il Sun's instrument panel by Powercube, on Flickr The IL-18 is both easy enough to fly and slow enough that no matter how few hours there are between the two trained captains in the entire JS staff, that I never once worried about death. The only thing I did worry about was the dental wire jerking out of my teeth when I went into the front cabin to take this shot:  P-835's engines in flight by Powercube, on Flickr Really, the IL-18 is gorgeous and an absolute treat to fly on. I want it for my own!  P-835 and Her Crew by Powercube, on Flickr (the man waving is the radio operator who followed us on all our flights) AN-24RV I flew the AN-24 on a leg from Sondok to Pyongyang. Unfortunately, said leg involved the air conditioning malfunctioning and the airframe turning into a sauna.  P-537's interior by Powercube, on Flickr The flying experience is very similar to that of a Dash-8-300. The flight deck however,  P-537's Flight Deck by Powercube, on Flickr Is much more awesome! Edit: Bonus IL-18 Cockpit:  P-835's Cockpit by Powercube, on Flickr Powercube fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 05:19
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What are those goggle things in the middle for?
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Oct 30, 2012 08:54
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Bombsights, probably 
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Oct 30, 2012 11:04
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Powercube, this is the best fuckin' thing. I would be interested in the sadder/non aviation side too, when you figure out where to post them discretely. I'm totally intrigued by North Korea now.
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Oct 30, 2012 17:08
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Powercube, your posts will need to be archived. And potentially sold.
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Oct 30, 2012 17:13
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