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DevNull posted:Yeah, having our driver shipped with Windows would be nice. I figured most people were installing tools if they are interacting with the VM. I am installing tools, but it seems like I still have to manually switch to the WDDM driver, since it defaults to standard VGA driver even with Tools installed. Is that just me or something?
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Oct 31, 2012 17:10
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DevNull posted:Yeah, having our driver shipped with Windows would be nice. I figured most people were installing tools if they are interacting with the VM. Even installing the tools still requires you to go and manually change the video driver (unless I am doing it wrong). Once thing I use the console for is when I have a process on a server running for a while, but want to allow others to view it as well. I will let them know that this process is running from the console and if they want to check progress, just open up the console window.
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Oct 31, 2012 17:24
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Mierdaan posted:I am installing tools, but it seems like I still have to manually switch to the WDDM driver, since it defaults to standard VGA driver even with Tools installed. Is that just me or something? That actually sounds right. I have not installed 2008 in a very long time, but I seem to remember it doing that. I think that was done because of increased memory requirements of the WDDM driver. I found the documentation I was looking for though... http://static.usenix.org/event/wiov08/tech/full_papers/dowty/dowty_html/ quote:The MKS has multiple HostOps backend implementations including GDI and X11 backends to support basic 2D graphics on all Windows and Linux hosts, a VNC server for remote display, and 3D accelerated backends written for both Direct3D and OpenGL The MKS is what the clients use to talk to the VMs. The MKS is using VNC.
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Oct 31, 2012 17:29
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DevNull posted:What the gently caress? That is probably left over from the days of it being really lovely and slow. I guess we need to find someone in charge of the docs and tell them to change that. if you're working in a shop with a bunch of different admins it can be a pain because people start fighting over the console session. I've had to beat it in to the head of the other guys here that they only use RDP to manage servers and if something is screwed up to the point that it needs console access I should be working on it anyway.
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Oct 31, 2012 18:04
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:if you're working in a shop with a bunch of different admins it can be a pain because people start fighting over the console session. I've had to beat it in to the head of the other guys here that they only use RDP to manage servers and if something is screwed up to the point that it needs console access I should be working on it anyway. Are they using different RDP sessions to the same VM, or is an issue of them having access to all the VMs? Obviously if they are on the same VM, they will need RDP to make that happen. If you wanted to give people console access to only some VMs, that is something we could conceivably do.
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Oct 31, 2012 18:31
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Corvettefisher posted:So the only issue is that through vSphere when you console into a VM it is black? Has the agents and VM's Hardware been updated accordingly? The windows vms have had the new tools loaded on if that's what you are asking. As for the hardware this happens on all vms. No hardware has been changed. We run 3 sad novel legacy servers which can't even load the tools and this happens so unlikely tool related. As for the KB, I'll check and see. I found lots of KB with black screens however we get no errors and it does show up if you click around enough. No visible errors or popup errors from this black screen issue. The reason I use the client is because with over 1000 pc's, servers 50+ switches routers etc. We are a two man shop. So I generally use the client the other guy I get to rdp. Plus if there are errors I should be checking on this so having the client running is helpful for that. Network wise I created it by the book. We have a dell san with diverse paths on two san switches. The esxi servers connect to the san network. The other server nics go to the internal network where we get access to the vms and esxi and vsphere. Both my laptop in my office and the servers/vms are on the same switch. So there is no weird stuff going on there which would cause this at the network level. DevNull posted:Do you say this just because performance sucks so much over the console? Have you tried it with 5.1 yet? We made a bunch of improvements so it should work a lot better. You might be onto something with the guest video memory. I'll post back my findings. Edit: the KB article while it had many plausible things didn't really help. We don't have the issue with or the problems of any of the many listed. forge fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 31, 2012 |
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Oct 31, 2012 18:45
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DevNull posted:Are they using different RDP sessions to the same VM, or is an issue of them having access to all the VMs? Obviously if they are on the same VM, they will need RDP to make that happen. If you wanted to give people console access to only some VMs, that is something we could conceivably do.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:19
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evil_bunnY posted:The console is for initial setup. Nothing else, until poo poo breaks. That is cool and all, but why? It is because it is too slow, you don't want people accessing all the VMs, or because you need multiple sessions connected to the same VM?
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Oct 31, 2012 19:29
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DevNull posted:What the gently caress? That is probably left over from the days of it being really lovely and slow. I guess we need to find someone in charge of the docs and tell them to change that. It's still kind of lovely when you're not on the local LAN with the system and there are still occasionally character repeats. It is noticeably better in 5.1 though! The web client lovely and slow though. Waiting several seconds for the client to figure out what actions I can do to an object gets really annoying really fast. The user experience in the thick client is much much better. In my testing I've deployed the web client to a dedicated VM and have even tried giving it ludicrous amounts of resources and even with just 1 user logging in it is pokey as hell.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:33
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forge posted:The reason I use the client is because with over 1000 pc's, servers 50+ switches routers etc. We are a two man shop. So I generally use the client the other guy I get to rdp. You do know you can do two RDP sessions at once without RD CALs, right? Could your blank screen problem be as simple as the VMs being set to "turn off monitor" after 10 minutes or something in power settings?
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Oct 31, 2012 19:40
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1000101 posted:The web client lovely and slow though. This is in 5.1? I don't get VMware's approach to web interfaces in general. The Workstation WSX HTML5 tech gave me real hope for the future, and then vCenter 5.1 came around and BAM Adobe Flex crushing all my hopes and dreams.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:46
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Mierdaan posted:This is in 5.1? Yeap, the web client in 5.1 (previous versions weren't even worth looking at/using). I know the post I quoted was with respect to the remote console but I figured I'd take the opportunity to bitch about the web client. Unfortunately I believe none of the new features are actually exposed in the thick client so you're pretty much stuck having to roll out the web client.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:51
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1000101 posted:Unfortunately I believe none of the new features are actually exposed in the thick client so you're pretty much stuck having to roll out the web client. What the gently caress made them think this was OK?
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Oct 31, 2012 20:14
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Erwin posted:You do know you can do two RDP sessions at once without RD CALs, right? Could your blank screen problem be as simple as the VMs being set to "turn off monitor" after 10 minutes or something in power settings? Is there some reason I don't want to be in the client? I understand in some huge corp where this would be standard practice. But there are only two of us who will ever remote into a server or look at the console. It's not a huge deal to me. But what is a huge deal is going into it when I need to do something and everything shows with a black screen and is basically unresponsive. As for screen savers. I've set it so none of them have any power save modes, and screen savers were all turned off. That was the first thing I checked. But remember this wasn't present in 5.0 before the upgrade. As for the video memory issue. They were set to auto, and I select to go to manual and upped it to 32mb, which should be more than enough. No change. I've done some more detective work here. So it seems like once it becomes unresponsive on a black console screen. The only way to wake it up is to go to something like say a legacy novell vm. Since these usually show up and don't have the vmtools installed. Go to the console on the machine I want to wake. Then go to the console on the legacy novell box. Then once it shows the console on that screen. I click the vm in question and it's already on the console screen. Then it changes the mouse cursor to a hand and allows me to click the screen and then it displays.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:15
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Mierdaan posted:This is in 5.1? The difference is because they are very different components being done by different teams. The team that did FlexUI is part of the vCenter group. They basically build the UI and use the remoteMKS/VMRC for the console. That same remoteMKS/VMRC is shipped with Workstation. That is why you can now connect Workstation to ESX. WSX is using the webMKS, which is developed by the same team as the remoteMKS. It just allows you the console access without needing to install the remoteMKS. There are some drawbacks to the web based version, but it allows some pretty cool flexibility where you don't have a remoteMKS installed. I won't comment on HTML5/Flex between ESX and WS. I can say that the remoteMKS and webMKS are both sticking around.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:15
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Rhymenoserous posted:What the gently caress made them think this was OK? Microsoft did it when they RTM'd Exchange 2007 and yet Exchange remains extremely popular, so... DevNull posted:The difference is because they are very different components being done by different teams. Rationally I always knew that was the answer, but as a consumer you hate to see a company going with two completely different approaches to two similar tasks. Mierdaan fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 31, 2012 |
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Oct 31, 2012 20:16
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Rhymenoserous posted:What the gently caress made them think this was OK? Both vCenter and vSphere client were Windows only. Do you really think a competitor of Microsoft wants key components of their software stuck on Microsoft? A web based solution gets your away from Microsoft. The other option would be two different versions of vCenter and the client. That could easily become a huge mess.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:22
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I delegate out console/power access to responsible parties so they can force down one of their servers if it misbehaves on off-hours since none of my staff (myself included) want to be taking that call. Every time there was an major, minor, or update build change to vCenter the thick client had to be reinstalled on dozens of workstations which means packaging and re-deploying. It was a big pain in my rear end and I will be doing cartwheels once I do the upgrade to 5.x and don't have to do that crap any more.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:34
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forge posted:I've done some more detective work here. So it seems like once it becomes unresponsive on a black console screen. The only way to wake it up is to go to something like say a legacy novell vm. Since these usually show up and don't have the vmtools installed. Go to the console on the machine I want to wake. Then go to the console on the legacy novell box. Then once it shows the console on that screen. I click the vm in question and it's already on the console screen. Then it changes the mouse cursor to a hand and allows me to click the screen and then it displays. So it sounds like your VMs are not unresponsive, it's just that the console connection to them doesn't work (that was actually clear from all your posts, but I'm just confirming). In other words, you can still ping, RDP, and access services on them, right?
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Oct 31, 2012 20:47
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I'm surprised they don't make a custom Linux appliance with vSphere on it that you can load up, say in a VM and then use that to manage everything, which frees them up from Windows installs. They could probably expand the vCenter appliance similarly.
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Oct 31, 2012 21:17
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Sylink posted:I'm surprised they don't make a custom Linux appliance with vSphere on it that you can load up, say in a VM and then use that to manage everything, which frees them up from Windows installs. I've been asking this for years.
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Oct 31, 2012 21:22
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Sylink posted:I'm surprised they don't make a custom Linux appliance with vSphere on it that you can load up, say in a VM and then use that to manage everything, which frees them up from Windows installs. I'm 100% behind the move towards web interfaces in general, my only gripe is with the Flex tech in the vCenter 5.1 interface. Blah 
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Oct 31, 2012 22:20
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forge posted:Is there some reason I don't want to be in the client? Why would you want to sit in the machine room in front of a kvm in your server rack? Because that's basically what you're doing. Why don't just both RDP?
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Oct 31, 2012 23:25
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Erwin posted:So it sounds like your VMs are not unresponsive, it's just that the console connection to them doesn't work (that was actually clear from all your posts, but I'm just confirming). In other words, you can still ping, RDP, and access services on them, right? That's correct, You just can't see anything in the console as if it didn't connect. Even though everything in the VM is absolutely fine. FISHMANPET posted:Why would you want to sit in the machine room in front of a kvm in your server rack? Because that's basically what you're doing. Because it's quicker to click on a machine and do what I need on it? Then going to run, typing mstsc, typing the ip, logging in, waiting a sec or two, doing what I need. Closing that opening another repeat? With the client I click the vm and do what I need. Click another do what I need. When I'm not at my computer I absolutely will rdp. However it's just easier, to each their own. I don't dislike rdp, and I don't dislike the client. You have to remember my work environment is probably a lot different from yours.
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Oct 31, 2012 23:35
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My work environment involves some servers and some VMware, which is all I need to know to say why would you want to be connecting to the console all the time? Connecting to an already logged in session takes a couple of seconds. You can middle click on a remote desktop window to open a new one and type in the name. VMware client is slow as balls. I guess I don't see why anyone would ever look at the console and think "yep, this sounds like a good way to interact with my machines."
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Oct 31, 2012 23:40
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forge posted:That's correct, You just can't see anything in the console as if it didn't connect. Even though everything in the VM is absolutely fine. We all think you should change your behavior because it's weird, but I think you know that now.  I think "unresponsive" is the wrong word, and maybe that's why VMware support has been unhelpful. Nothing is unresponsive, it's just a communication problem between the client and the VM. What happens if you restart the client? What if you turn Windows Firewall off on the VM and/or vCenter and/or your machine?
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Oct 31, 2012 23:46
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Sylink posted:I'm surprised they don't make a custom Linux appliance with vSphere on it that you can load up, say in a VM and then use that to manage everything, which frees them up from Windows installs. The web appliance/portal is going to solve that issue, my guess is next version will be all new features in web, as well as it being much smoother. It's OKAY right now but not quite there, I really wish it was HTML5. This probably will be done as well, the advancement of MySQL in 5.1 is a big step in the right direction. E: I think it was MySQL that is in the appliance it might be postGRE. gently caress it I am sick I'll look it up tomorrow.
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Nov 1, 2012 00:20
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http://xtravirt.com/vsphere-client-rdp-plug-in Right click VM--->open RDP. I believe this is kept up to date. Problem solved! As long as you don't click the console tab though. Those people drive me nuts.. edit: it's postgres. edit2: fixed URL 1000101 fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 00:21
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DevNull posted:That is cool and all, but why? It is because it is too slow, you don't want people accessing all the VMs, or because you need multiple sessions connected to the same VM? DevNull posted:The difference is because they are very different components being done by different teams. The team that did FlexUI is part of the vCenter group. They basically build the UI and use the remoteMKS/VMRC for the console. That same remoteMKS/VMRC is shipped with Workstation. That is why you can now connect Workstation to ESX. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 01:43
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Erwin posted:We all think you should change your behavior because it's weird, but I think you know that now. I had a lower level tech argue with the "tier 2" or whatever vsphere guy. They understood what the issue was. During this call the tier two guy went on a crusade to tell me the problem was my SAN and that it was responding really slow. To which the SAN vmware guy he called told him my san kicked rear end and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Back to the issue, the screens black and there is no way to do anything with it. If you start the client the client restarts, but you won't see it because whatever "code" is used for video isn't refreshing. All firewalls are off. Basically the way to describe the issue is like if you clicked the console tab. The client doesn't actually know you clicked the tab so it would be just black as if it didn't even know it needed to show you video. That's the best way to explain it and which is why I thought it was just a bug in the 5.1 client at first where it didn't recognize you clicked on certain tabs. FISHMANPET posted:My work environment involves some servers and some VMware, which is all I need to know to say why would you want to be connecting to the console all the time? Connecting to an already logged in session takes a couple of seconds. You can middle click on a remote desktop window to open a new one and type in the name. VMware client is slow as balls. I guess I don't see why anyone would ever look at the console and think "yep, this sounds like a good way to interact with my machines." I'm not connecting to the console all the time. I just leave it minimized most of the time. I guess this is where our experience is different.. My experience with the client is that it's just as fast as rdp. I'm not waiting seconds to get some feedback and never have the horrible multiple character typing issues like normal bad connections. It's always been very responsive latency wise. If that wasn't the case I'm sure it would have driven me insane and I would have just adopted the route to use rdp all the time like the rest of you. But for me it's like sitting at the server response wise. So unless there would be some security reason for me to not do this, or some negative effect on the servers. I can't see why I wouldn't if I've got the client installed. The only reason I can see is because "the rest of us don't" or the most likely case of "you won't be able to do this in the corporate world". Either way I'm not worried you think it's weird I'm using the client. I'm just worried about fixing this issue so that when it's important to use it, it works correctly.
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Nov 1, 2012 02:25
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If you are seeing a black screen but the cursor is changing when you move it around the guest console, the issue is either the video driver or the remoting stack. Do you have an e-mail I can reach you at? I can take a look at the logs or pass them on to someone else that can figure out what is going on.
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Nov 1, 2012 02:37
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mstsc is poo poo get a tabbed client you cavemen. I use multidesk and its really simple and nice.
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Nov 1, 2012 13:28
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Sylink posted:mstsc is poo poo get a tabbed client you cavemen. I'm a fan of RDCMan which is even from Microsoft and stuff.
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Nov 1, 2012 14:10
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 when I google searched a long time ago for tabbed RDP that doesn't even come up. Good job microsoft.
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Nov 1, 2012 14:36
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Windows 7 makes mstsc better. All the RDP sessions are stacked in one taskbar icon, and you can hover over it for thumbnail previews. Right-click the icon for a list of your recent sessions v v
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Nov 1, 2012 14:42
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I prefer to use Remote Desktop Connection Manager: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=21101 Inheriting permissions and server group organizations, along with support for RD Gateway make it super easy.
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Nov 1, 2012 15:08
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I like Terminals. Supports RDP, VNC, SSH, Telnet, Citrix.
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Nov 1, 2012 15:20
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complex posted:I like Terminals. Supports RDP, VNC, SSH, Telnet, Citrix. Seconding Terminals.
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Nov 1, 2012 16:30
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I've been a huge fan of RoyalTS for ages. v2.x now supports SSH/Telnet and DRAC/iLO webpages. Has central configuration via GPO, etc
Nebulis01 fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 18:09
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mRemoteNG is another lovely alternative.
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Nov 1, 2012 21:37
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