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There are any number of ways to make the Starchild better, but Walters would be damned before he'd let you ignore the great symbolism of that one little boy (the only child in the entire galaxy) lecturing you.
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Dec 1, 2012 14:24
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:39 |
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Geostomp posted:There are any number of ways to make the Starchild better, but Walters would be damned before he'd let you ignore the great symbolism of that one little boy (the only child in the entire galaxy) lecturing you.
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Dec 1, 2012 14:51
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The Catalyst being the child from the beginning is one of the those things that could've been interesting, but it failed to execute miserably. With the child in the first place, it's not that it doesn't make sense for Shepard to be tortured by his death, but they failed to provide a meaningful emotional connection to the child in the first place so the whole thing goes over like a wet fart.
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Dec 1, 2012 15:03
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frankly, I've never gotten the massive levels of hurt over the child (other than his odd presence as the Catalyst), because Shep clearly isn't guilty because One Kid Died. To me, he's pretty clearly representative of everyone on earth that's getting murdered while he's basically shooting around the stars in his/her swank spaceship, trying to get governments to play nice together. This isn't "pretentious" or "artsy" symbolism here, it's as clear-cut as you can get.
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Dec 1, 2012 15:07
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The Catalyst as a concept was stupid and the kid's voice was annoying. The kid itself just becomes a focal point of many different but related threads of dislike. I like to think the catalyst took the form of every child in the universe, shifting constantly. But they'd only made one model, so...
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Dec 1, 2012 15:47
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The Catalyst should've been Vigil. Now that would've been a mindfuck.
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Dec 1, 2012 15:54
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Fag Boy Jim posted:frankly, I've never gotten the massive levels of hurt over the child (other than his odd presence as the Catalyst), because Shep clearly isn't guilty because One Kid Died. To me, he's pretty clearly representative of everyone on earth that's getting murdered while he's basically shooting around the stars in his/her swank spaceship, trying to get governments to play nice together. This isn't "pretentious" or "artsy" symbolism here, it's as clear-cut as you can get. We all get that. The problem is that it was so obvious and forced that they might as well have a neon sign saying  FEEL SAD NOW!! every time the little brat showed his face. When emotional manipulation, you can't help but feel a little insulted. Especially when there are so many better developed sources of pathos for Shepard that were skated over for the lowest common denominator of a child who existed to be killed. You'd think someone who killed thousands in battle, was forced into genocide just to delay the apocalypse (for six months), and was resurrected from the dead might have more on their minds than that one kid s/he knew for about a minute. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Dec 1, 2012 |
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Dec 1, 2012 16:17
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It's too bad that obsessive guilt isn't something logical or that you can easily compartmentalize.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:10
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CPFortest posted:It's too bad that obsessive guilt isn't something logical or that you can easily compartmentalize. It's also not something you can be coerced into feeling by heavy-handed imagery. The game tells me that Shepard is sad, but as a player I have no reason at all to feel sad about any of the Starkid's appearances. It's an almost total failure of execution.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:19
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To be fair, I was only saying that the idea of the child continuously haunting Shepard's dreams makes sense. They did horribly botch the execution though, you are right about that.
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Dec 1, 2012 17:31
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Fag Boy Jim posted:frankly, I've never gotten the massive levels of hurt over the child (other than his odd presence as the Catalyst), because Shep clearly isn't guilty because One Kid Died. To me, he's pretty clearly representative of everyone on earth that's getting murdered while he's basically shooting around the stars in his/her swank spaceship, trying to get governments to play nice together. This isn't "pretentious" or "artsy" symbolism here, it's as clear-cut as you can get. However grey dream sequences of Shepard "running" in slow motion behind Mass Effect's one and only child through Mass Effcet's one and only forest with sad piano music and shadowy figures in the background is a main town in artsy, pretentious symbolism country.
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Dec 1, 2012 19:13
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CPFortest posted:To be fair, I was only saying that the idea of the child continuously haunting Shepard's dreams makes sense. It actually would have been pretty cool to use Shepard's LI or "best bro" character plague their dreams instead of that kid. Now that would have been a good story point. You, unable to save the one you care for most from the impending apocalypse.
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Dec 1, 2012 19:34
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Something I think would have been neat is that you could take any character that was ever playable in your squad for that final London mission. You get to have a last conversation with all of them, why not "Hey there's a shuttle standing by, get your rear end over here and let's wreck poo poo one more time." They already have the assets. Y'all know you would have Zaeed there pissing all over Banshees.
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Dec 1, 2012 22:44
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Radio Paranoia posted:It actually would have been pretty cool to use Shepard's LI or "best bro" character plague their dreams instead of that kid. They half-heartedly did that with the whispers in the dream sequences, but those were largely irrelevant since they were in the background, and even then your LI would only be in the dreams if they died.
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Dec 1, 2012 23:00
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SubponticatePoster posted:Something I think would have been neat is that you could take any character that was ever playable in your squad for that final London mission. You get to have a last conversation with all of them, why not "Hey there's a shuttle standing by, get your rear end over here and let's wreck poo poo one more time." They already have the assets. First off, this would be pretty cool. Second, forget Zaeed. I haven't played with Wrex since the first game, it's high time to bash some more heads together.
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Dec 2, 2012 00:35
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I enjoyed the irony of Earth being the focus point of all the marketing and the total amount of time of both Earth sections lasting about an hour and a half.
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Dec 2, 2012 00:49
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precision posted:It's also not something you can be coerced into feeling by heavy-handed imagery. The game tells me that Shepard is sad, but as a player I have no reason at all to feel sad about any of the Starkid's appearances. Exactly this. Plus, the Starkid looks too much like the son of a friend of mine for me to take him seriously in any way ever. That he has  makes it even better/worse.
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Dec 2, 2012 01:39
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SubponticatePoster posted:Something I think would have been neat is that you could take any character that was ever playable in your squad for that final London mission. You get to have a last conversation with all of them, why not "Hey there's a shuttle standing by, get your rear end over here and let's wreck poo poo one more time." They already have the assets. That's going to be really tough when he's a pile of ashes in the ruins of an exploded refinery. 
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Dec 2, 2012 01:45
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Craig Spradlin posted:That's going to be really tough when he's a pile of ashes in the ruins of an exploded refinery.
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Dec 2, 2012 02:24
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Finished my latest playthrough, I decided I would finally give the Control ending a try. Am I the only one who thinks that Starshepard's voiceover is extremely unnerving? It's like he has very little connection to who he was, even if he pledges to honor who he was. Given time, I'd be afraid he'd jumpstart the Reaper cycle again. It really reinforces how much I'd rather have seen the Starchild be one of the "beings of light" that is referenced in passing. Making them some kind of super evolved being instead of a stupid and possibly insane artificial intelligence would have been a better route. It would make me feel better about the Control ending if Shepard weren't reduced to some cold, emotionless program that seems to have far less personality than EDI or the geth. Also, nice job Bioware, you left the Omega DLC out of the end credits.
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Dec 2, 2012 02:27
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SubponticatePoster posted:You monster. Ever since I found out it was possible, I have planned every playthrough (but one) for that specific outcome. Cranky old merc in it for a payday who sacrifices a whole building full of innocents to open a door? gently caress that guy. Besides, if I need a sharpshooter, it's Garrus all day every day, and has been ever since ME1. 
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Dec 2, 2012 02:44
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CPFortest posted:words We've said this before, but I'll say this again: The Catalyst should have been Avina.
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Dec 2, 2012 02:46
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edit: ^^^Haha. "How may I assist you in loving things up today?"Craig Spradlin posted:Ever since I found out it was possible, I have planned every playthrough (but one) for that specific outcome. Cranky old merc in it for a payday who sacrifices a whole building full of innocents to open a door? gently caress that guy. Besides, if I need a sharpshooter, it's Garrus all day every day, and has been ever since ME1. If those workers AND Zaeed are dying then it's your own drat fault for being milquetoast
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Dec 2, 2012 03:20
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Oh man I've had this game since March and I just got the Batarian State Arms gag.
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Dec 2, 2012 06:11
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Piedmon Sama posted:Oh man I've had this game since March and I just got the Batarian State Arms gag. Well I don't think I know this gag! What is it?
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Dec 2, 2012 06:19
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precision posted:It's also not something you can be coerced into feeling by heavy-handed imagery. The game tells me that Shepard is sad, but as a player I have no reason at all to feel sad about any of the Starkid's appearances. Thank you. You can't just tell your audience to feel a certain way and expect them to comply. You have to earn in. No amount of heavy-handed imagery, self-indulgent "artistic" scenes (the dream sequences), or sad piano music will sell your work unless you build it up the hard way. Unfortunately, Mac Walters and others thought they could just cheat by using all of that as well as straight up telling the player what they should think or feel through the characters multiple times (even with non-child related matters). Using melodrama as Spackle whenever the narrative got too weak. All it did was show that the people running the show should not be allowed to do emotional work without constant supervision again.
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Dec 2, 2012 06:38
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:Well I don't think I know this gag! What is it? "Thank you for shopping at Batarian state arms. Your purchases.... are a credit to the Hegemony!" 
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Dec 2, 2012 06:39
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Alright, I've had a stupid idea for a playthrough and I'm taking part of it to goon vote because I can't decide: If Ron Swanson were a SPECTRE, what class would he be? 
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Dec 2, 2012 06:44
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Geostomp posted:Thank you. Exactly. You can't just tell your audience to feel sad when they lack an emotional investment in what's happening. A better way would have been to have all of the prior games' surviving squadmates at the trial (and actually have a trial), and have one of them be killed during the escape from Earth. I can see it being somewhat annoying for someone to die without you being able to prevent it, but for me it would have been emotionally grueling.
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Dec 2, 2012 08:57
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Alright, I've had a stupid idea for a playthrough and I'm taking part of it to goon vote because I can't decide: Only willing to work within the system so that he can bring it down from within. Thinks everyone should be entirely self sufficient. Crafts fine wooden furniture.
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Dec 2, 2012 12:53
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SubponticatePoster posted:You do know that you can save all the poor workers and still get his loyalty by virtue of being a badass, right? Oh, I know. I'm just saying someone who pulls a stunt like that doesn't get to roll with Shepard. And if Shepard's in a bad mood, he might just decide that this guy's a cancer and doesn't get to roll with anyone. And in ME2, my Shepard is in a bad mood by default. Waking up from the dead and finding himself and his ship flying Cerberus colors will do that to a fellow.
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Dec 2, 2012 16:16
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Craig Spradlin posted:Exactly this. Plus, the Starkid looks too much like the son of a friend of mine for me to take him seriously in any way ever. He looked way too much like Anakin Skywalker for me to take seriously. Geostomp posted:sad piano music Speaking of music-out-of-nowhere, last night I finally got to the point in my latest playthrough where Shepard finally gets Kaidan to step out of the closet, and it was really underwhelming. There's not even the shortest of conversations about how Kaidan never showed any interest in Shepard (or men) the whole series? Just "I like you Shepard" "I like you too Kaidan!"? I mean I guess you could make a argument that in the future, being omnisexual is the norm rather than the exception, but that would be a dumb argument, even if there are other things in the series that back up that assumption. It's also unintentionally hilarious that right before I got that scene, I heard Kaidan's "random incidental dialogue" where he talks about how hot EDI is. 
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Dec 2, 2012 19:58
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I'd like to know how the goddamn catalyst knows how to find and destroy AI vs. destroying any and all data and programming in the universe. One set of 1s and 0s might be a bit indistinguishable from any other.
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Dec 2, 2012 20:50
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precision posted:Speaking of music-out-of-nowhere, last night I finally got to the point in my latest playthrough where Shepard finally gets Kaidan to step out of the closet, and it was really underwhelming. There's not even the shortest of conversations about how Kaidan never showed any interest in Shepard (or men) the whole series? Just "I like you Shepard" "I like you too Kaidan!"? To be fair, if you played a man he never expressed any interest in anyone in the first two games. Though it's true that the character should have integrity across playthroughs. Point also taken about his comments about EDI and the Ardat-Yakshi. Later scenes are far better, particularly the last two (including EC).
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Dec 2, 2012 20:51
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precision posted:There's not even the shortest of conversations about how Kaidan never showed any interest in Shepard (or men) the whole series? Just "I like you Shepard" "I like you too Kaidan!"? Doesn't he say something about how Shepard was always busy and the mission came first back then?
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Dec 2, 2012 20:57
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Geostomp posted:No amount of heavy-handed imagery, self-indulgent "artistic" scenes (the dream sequences), or sad piano music will sell your work unless you build it up the hard way. Counterpoint :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4n4ldPRnRE
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Dec 2, 2012 20:59
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Tremors posted:Doesn't he say something about how Shepard was always busy and the mission came first back then? Not in the first scene, maybe later? The first scene is just "I'm looking for someone tall, dark and handsome, guess I don't have to look too far".
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Dec 2, 2012 21:06
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precision posted:Not in the first scene, maybe later? The first scene is just "I'm looking for someone tall, dark and handsome, guess I don't have to look too far". I think you only get that on a new game.
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Dec 2, 2012 21:09
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epenthesis posted:I think you only get that on a new game. You mean with a non-imported Shepard? But I totally imported my Shepard.  edit: And on a non-import game, don't male Shepards always get Ashley as the Virmire Survivor anyway? e2: I might have not gotten the "mission always came first" dialogue because this Shep romanced Jack in ME2, I guess. I can't remember but he may have romanced Ashley and then sent her to her death, too.  precision fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 2, 2012 |
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Dec 2, 2012 21:16
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:39 |
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So I've been reading this thread and wondering what the general hate levels were for that mission where you went inside the geth or something and had to shoot heaps of stupid blocks with some crappy gun for ages. The game to me overall was good and I didn't even hate the ending that much but drat did that bit piss me right the gently caress off.
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Dec 2, 2012 22:25
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