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Bruceski posted:Look at the original Mario RPG. On top of the Mario staples we got a talking cloud raised by frogs, who was actually a prince of the cloud-people. His usurper was a busty woman with a bird on her head who smoked a cigarette (in a Nintendo game), and when we played the game nobody batted an eye. Not to mention the Axem Rangers. It was weird, but it was a flavor of weird that somehow managed to fit with established Mario weirdness. I concur. That was a great game. I admit I tend to prefer the Paper Mario series over that one, but it's largely a matter of aesthetics, I think. I like 2-D cartoony style over 3-D computer modeling. I also appreciate the stand Paper Mario took against hit point inflation. It makes you feel like Final Fantasy is compensating for something Vidyatendo posted:just something a bit more than "Peach is kidnapped, collect poo poo" would be nice. I'll admit, it isn't that there's an excuse plot (even excuse plots can be done with style,) so much as the fact they recycle the same drat excuse plot almost every game that bothers me. But this time, Bowser's Giant! Woo! Please don't take this to mean I disrespect Mario or Miyamoto. I love these games! But I think there's room for criticism.
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Dec 5, 2012 07:47
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Just out of curiosity, why do you want more story out of Mario's main games specifically? Series like Mario Kart are almost just as established, with several entries over multiple consoles, and they don't even have a hint of a story, and no one's asking for any. They're just as "realistic", so what's about the main games that makes everyone interested in a richer story? My best guess is that it's either because the main games give you a clear objective you pursue over the whole game while the action in the Kart games is non-sequitur, or because the presence of an arching story makes us want more. Personally, I don't mind the bland and repeating plot of the main games. Mario saving the princess is an integral part to the Mario games, even if some games like Super Mario Land 2 stray off that objective. One thing that would be cool though is if you start out in the Mushroom Kingdom chasing Bowser, but then Tatanga steals Bowser's castle (including the levels in it and Peach), and you have to travel to Sarasaland to pursue Tatanga. It'd be an interesting curveball that allows the return of Super Mario Land and sticks to the kidnapping and saving-theme.
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Dec 5, 2012 08:30
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I personally would prefer more things like the storybook from the first game. Just little side things that may add to the world building and side characters. For the life of me though, I don't remember any length cutscenes in the first galaxy that really broke up gameplay, other than the one that plays at the end. Most of them were just explanations of what to do next if I'm not mistaken.
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Dec 5, 2012 08:44
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The Kart games are racing games which by their very nature have no need for story; you don't need to give the racers a reason to want to finish the race first; they're racing; first is better than second! Everyone knows how a race works and why people race so there's no real reason to explain anything beyond "This is a race, GO!"
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Dec 5, 2012 08:45
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I'd say that let's face facts - nobody plays Mario games for deep plot. We play them because, whatever genre they happen to be, they are very fun, laid-back games to play. It's very much the id Software way to make games - make the games enjoyable to play and farm the story out to some random people down on the street. Nintendo has essentially been making the Mario games with the same mindset, just less brown.
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Dec 5, 2012 08:59
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Mario has always focused on purity of gameplay but there have been a few Mario games here and there that have shown us that you can have purity of gameplay and an interesting story! And now we want everything because we are greedy motherfuckers.
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Dec 5, 2012 09:01
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Neruz posted:The Kart games are racing games which by their very nature have no need for story; you don't need to give the racers a reason to want to finish the race first; they're racing; first is better than second! Everyone knows how a race works and why people race so there's no real reason to explain anything beyond "This is a race, GO!" Well, the same could be said about the main games. Monster shows up and kidnaps girl, guy runs after them. Unless this is Braid, you know what's happening and what you have to do.
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Dec 5, 2012 09:04
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horriblePencilist posted:Well, the same could be said about the main games. Monster shows up and kidnaps girl, guy runs after them. Unless this is Braid, you know what's happening and what you have to do. But why did the monster kidnap the girl? Why do you want to save her? Who is this girl anyway? These are all questions that vaguely matter in an adventure\action game and don't really matter in a racing game; the only question you need to answer in a racing game is "So why are they racing in the first place?" and the Mario universe is sufficiently insane that that particulr question isn't exactly going to make any sense.
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Dec 5, 2012 09:09
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I think the real question is; why are they sending a plumber to do the job of a hero?
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Dec 5, 2012 09:20
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Garbonix posted:I think the real question is; why are they sending a plumber to do the job of a hero? 'Plumber' is just a cover job for Mario; when was the last time you saw him actually do some plumbing?
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Dec 5, 2012 09:21
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No no no, you don't understand. He's a 'Plumber'. As in the space warriors in Ben 10, he's a friend of Grandpa Max.
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Dec 5, 2012 09:29
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^ That makes too much sense. Explains the vast Fauna of the Mushroom Kingdom, at the very least.Garbonix posted:I think the real question is; why are they sending a plumber to do the job of a hero? To be fair, who else to jump in to save the Princess? Blue Toad? I think not.
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Dec 5, 2012 10:09
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horriblePencilist posted:To be fair, who else to jump in to save the Princess? Blue Toad? I think not. We all remember how well that went.
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Dec 5, 2012 10:19
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horriblePencilist posted:Just out of curiosity, why do you want more story out of Mario's main games specifically? I'm not asking for story from Mario Kart chiefly because I don't like kart games or racing games in general. Now one could easily say the reason I don't like them is because I've always been disenchanted with the idea of driving cars. However... now that I think about it, the lack of a story giving me a context for why I'm racing might also be part of a hook I'm lacking. It's why I drifted away from games without a clear arc once the NES introduced me to games with a beginning, middle, and end. horriblePencilist posted:
You might be right about this. It sounds like the clear and concise answer for what I want. The long drawn-out answer is that when I'm playing a Super Mario game, I'm playing pretend. I'm pretending to be Mario (or optimally, Luigi,) exploring a fantastic world, daring deadly obstacles, taking great risks, fending off hordes of Bowser's minions, on a great quest. I like having context for the adventure I'm undertaking. It doesn't have to be Shakespeare or elaborate at all, but it helps me stay "in the mode" if the story sending me out is fun or interesting. At the very least, it helps me not feel so bad for killing so many seriously adorable minions. I mean, seriously, who doesn't think koopa troopas are cuddly and goombas are cute? In New Super Mario Bros Wii, they even dance to the background music! The curious thing about Mario game story these days is that the most interesting parts of the story are ironic, and/or meta, and or pieced together in our heads like putting frog bits into the holes of dinosaur dna. I mean, take the opening cutscene of New Super Mario Bros. Wii. The koopalings kidnapped Peach with a cake, and they parked the Doom Ship right outside the front gates and nobody noticed! Bowser seriously doesn't even have to try and he knows it. Things like the way Bowser always sets himself up in arenas where an depowered Mario can actually hurt his near-invulnerable hide, that he puts one-ups near his boss-fight zones, that he likes to draft "Guahahar!" letters and speeches to challenge Mario... it makes you wonder how much this is about actually taking over the world and how much of it is a really obfuscating and elaborate way of setting up hang-out time with his best buddy Mario. That said... when you get right down to it, I think "I think too deeply about things," is probably as much answer as you need. Drakli fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Dec 5, 2012 |
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Dec 5, 2012 10:26
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Drakli posted:That said... when you get right down to it, I think "I think too deeply about things," is probably as much answer as you need. It's actually really plausible that they don't add too much story to mantain the status of sillyness in the Mario games. You know how the cartoony visuals help you accepting the setting, technical hiccups and theoretical violence of Mario crushing his enemies? It never occured to me, but the same thing probably applies to the story. The story, or lack thereof, ensures us that there isn't really anything to worry about in terms of story, and that there's little point in trying to go too much into it. Now, if we had this epic backstory of the Mushroom Kingdom raging a fierce war with Bowser and his forces, fueled with rage from the loss of his children's wife, and then we have a fat plumber jumping from grassy plains to snowy mountains to a fiery volcano, that'd leave people confused. The Mario RPGs may tie the Mushroom Kingdom to a coherent story, but they're not as goofy and nonsensical as the main games though: Bosses don't stand on fragile bridges with axes next to them, sliding down poles does not promise victory and hell, even Goombas actually attack Mario.
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Dec 5, 2012 12:02
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Well I don't know; I'd be fine with the villain's driving motivation being "I WANT ALL THAT STAR POWER" because Stars have been established to be powerful and capable of doing all kinds of bullshit in the wrong hands. I'm not asking for Shakespeare here, just maybe a little more experimentation.
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Dec 5, 2012 12:49
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Neruz posted:Well I don't know; I'd be fine with the villain's driving motivation being "I WANT ALL THAT STAR POWER" because Stars have been established to be powerful and capable of doing all kinds of bullshit in the wrong hands. I'm not asking for Shakespeare here, just maybe a little more experimentation. Which reminds me, Peach's Castle has as much power as a goddamn self-sustaining space station.
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Dec 5, 2012 13:51
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That one Luma racing to get back into position was pretty funny.
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Dec 5, 2012 17:33
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horriblePencilist posted:Which reminds me, Peach's Castle has as much power as a goddamn self-sustaining space station.  Actually, the spaceships are primarily powered by Grand Stars, the stars you get from beating bosses. Regular stars are just an additional fuel.
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Dec 5, 2012 17:46
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Y'all thinking too hard about Mario in this thread. Bowser kidnaps Peach because he's a jerk, Mario runs to save her because he's a cool dude. Anything else is gravy. On a more related-to-this-LP topic, the engine room also gets some cool stuff as you play. We haven't gotten to the point where new stuff will be added, though, so I'm not going to say, but anyone who's played Galaxy 2 for any length of time will know what I'm on about. The Deleter fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 5, 2012 |
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Dec 5, 2012 17:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player My favorite Mario game plot is the one from the Gamecube tennis title.
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Dec 5, 2012 19:40
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You know I'm cool with the idea that Bowser just likes antagonizing Mario like some sort of hobby. He never seems to really do anything with Peach or even try to rule the Mushroom Kingdom with an iron fist. I think he just wants to see Mario take on his challenge just like we watch an LP.
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Dec 5, 2012 19:58
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Monkey Fracas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player That opening is pretty much the whole reason why I bought the game in the first place. 
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Dec 5, 2012 20:00
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evilspacehopper posted:You know I'm cool with the idea that Bowser just likes antagonizing Mario like some sort of hobby. He never seems to really do anything with Peach or even try to rule the Mushroom Kingdom with an iron fist. I think he just wants to see Mario take on his challenge just like we watch an LP. 
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Dec 5, 2012 20:02
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Monkey Fracas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player If they actually started making shows like this, I'd watch. It'd be like a far better version of those late 80's-early 90's shows that vaguely resembled videogames.
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Dec 5, 2012 20:18
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Ariong posted:Have you played Paper Mario? Monkey Fracas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player Seriously I wanna buy this game now, this looks fun as hell. That was some Wacky Races poo poo right there and it was awesome.
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Dec 5, 2012 20:20
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FinalGamer posted:To be fair that was made by Intelligent Systems who are a separate in-house division, and as such take Mario a different route than Miyamoto himself does. Actually I dunno how much control Miyamoto has in the RPG games compared to his platforming baby. He's in charge of the Mario franchise, whether it's Mario Party, Mario RPG, or Mario Galaxy.
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Dec 5, 2012 20:22
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Suspicious Dish posted:He's in charge of the Mario franchise, whether it's Mario Party, Mario RPG, or Mario Galaxy. All that means is that whatever happens, he gave at least tenuous approval, even if he doesn't particularly like the direction or simply wouldn't have thought of an idea.
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Dec 5, 2012 20:27
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Neruz posted:Good Sir have you dared to inquire as to the nature of Super Paper Mario? horriblePencilist posted:Or the Mario & Luigi games (SSS definitely, BIS indirectly I don't know about PIT though, never played it), or Super Mario RPG? That's what I sorta meant, though. The RPGs have excellent writing and characters, and being able to play as Bowser is bad-loving-rear end. Plus, I think it's been mostly agreed on that Super Paper Mario is mediocre overall. EDIT: You know, all the Mario RPGs are funny and silly as all hell while also managing to be good in the story department. In fact, when they are too serious all the time, like in Mario Sunshine, it's pretty dumb I admit. There is a lot of dialog in Galaxy 2, but since I just don't give a poo poo about what's going on, I feel like I wish they did cut the bullshit this time. Just, I dunno, a new twist would be nice. Hell, a PROPER Mario game with Peach being playable again would be wonderful. Videotendo fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 5, 2012 |
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Dec 5, 2012 21:53
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Monkey Fracas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player This is why we need a game about Wario and Waluigi.
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Dec 5, 2012 22:00
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Monkey Fracas posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUu0hy8Aa6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player The Gamecube Mario Golf also had a intro in a similar style. Yes, we do need a Wario and Waluigi game. Something like the Mario & Luigi series.
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Dec 5, 2012 23:03
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I'd love to see a Wario & Waluigi game, but instead of making it an RPG, it should be a treasure-collection platformer like the Wario Land series. It will be the best addition to the series since Wario Land 3. VV That's actually even better! get that OUT of my face fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 02:12
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Y-Hat posted:I'd love to see a Wario & Waluigi game, but instead of making it an RPG, it should be a treasure-collection platformer like the Wario Land series. It will be the best addition to the series since Wario Land 3. It should be a game about ruining everyone's day for petty gains.
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Dec 6, 2012 02:55
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I vaguely recall someone came up with a concept for a Waluigi game where the object was to cheat at a bunch of "unwinnable" minigames, but it was dropped because it was too much effort to make both the mechanics of the normal minigame and the mechanics of the cheating mesh properly. Don't quote me on this, I don't have a source or anything. Just something I remember. I'd kill for a Wario brothers game, though. Those two are the best.
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Dec 6, 2012 03:07
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The Deleter posted:I vaguely recall someone came up with a concept for a Waluigi game where the object was to cheat at a bunch of "unwinnable" minigames, but it was dropped because it was too much effort to make both the mechanics of the normal minigame and the mechanics of the cheating mesh properly. Don't quote me on this, I don't have a source or anything. Just something I remember. I don't think that was ever an actual game. Charles Martinet, voice of Waluigi (among other characters) said in an interview that he'd love to see a Waluigi game that worked like that. I feel like a Waluigi game would be a stealth-action game, only instead of serving any major goal you're just pranking random Toads in the most elaborate ways you can think of.
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Dec 6, 2012 03:37
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Rocketlex posted:I don't think that was ever an actual game. Charles Martinet, voice of Waluigi (among other characters) said in an interview that he'd love to see a Waluigi game that worked like that. That was it. Thanks for clearing that up. It was a goon in another Mario LP thread (I think pokecapn's Mario party Marathon) that said how difficult it would be to implement. What about an Assassin's Creed style game? Instead of murder, Waluigi
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Dec 6, 2012 03:53
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The Deleter posted:What about an Assassin's Creed style game? Instead of murder, Waluigi And, taking a page from 50 Cent's Blood on the Sand, you could level up your waa's.
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Dec 6, 2012 04:03
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Y-Hat posted:I'd love to see a Wario & Waluigi game, but instead of making it an RPG, it should be a treasure-collection platformer like the Wario Land series. It will be the best addition to the series since Wario Land 3. 
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Dec 6, 2012 04:58
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I was secretly hoping the premise of that game would be that Mario has somehow racked up a huge debt to Wario which he needs to pay off. At the end of each level, once you jump off the flagpole, Wario would grab you and shake all the coins out of your body.
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Dec 6, 2012 05:00
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Rocketlex posted:I was secretly hoping the premise of that game would be that Mario has somehow racked up a huge debt to Wario which he needs to pay off. At the end of each level, once you jump off the flagpole, Wario would grab you and shake all the coins out of your body. And if you don't pay up, he calls Waluigi in to break Mario's legs. Wah-ha!
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Dec 6, 2012 05:03
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