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Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Hello guys!

Where do you get nowadays the Land to Conquer mod, and what's the last version? Because the Totalwar.org forums links are broken. :v:

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Captain Diarrhoea
Apr 16, 2011
Well I started a Stainless Steel early era campaign as Scotland, invaded England like I had ants in my pants and got excommunicated, what do I care gently caress you Pope.

Maybe I've been away from M2 too long, maybe it's Stainless Steel. But what happened to heretics. :stare:

Was it always this loving retarded? I have many fond memories of heretics marching from my cities in legions, and I would have to devote some resources to stamping this out with varying success. Not like this time, where they are invincible gods that convert every single priest, bishop and cardinal to heresy with their maximum piety. Even the lovely priests with no piety were turned into heresy bombs. They're overrunning the British Isles. The inquisition are all over the place and have not made any attempt to kill a heretic forever, preferring instead to spend their assignment hobbling around like someone tread on their balls.

I'm pretty sure it's SS. :eng99:

e: Yeah I'll try ride it out until I can get assassins, there's a weaker heretics mod that is hopefully save game compatible otherwise.

Captain Diarrhoea fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 14, 2013

Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007

I'm not sure about mods, but the SS super powered heretics were one thing I never felt bad saving scumming.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
So third time's the charm, ran another Shimazu campaign and finally grabbed all of Kyushu by about 1555. Had a few hairy battles where literally it was just a line of ashigaru pounding at one another (almost one for one) but I must've gotten distracted because they had cavalry and I didn't, so I put all my attention to countering their maneuvers. I pretty much have the whole island, kinda wish there was a way to knock trading boats off posts without declaring war. Do I just move across the land bridge and keep going? Or should I settle for a few turns or something and reorganize my army. It's mostly been ashigaru spam (since someone advised I just blitz the island as much as possible before other clans start outproducing me) so I assume now I need more samurai and mix some cavalry in as well?

I should focus on units produced in provinces with unit production bonuses, roads to move them faster? I actually haven't gotten this far until now so I'm a little lost with where to go with samurai, except for the obvious ones. Naginata sounds like just general all-around good heavy infantry (how is it actually different from swords or yari though?), no-daichi is charge-dependent I'm guessing? Guessing the cavalry equivalents are just samurai with cavalry pro/cons and can dismount?

I do wish my ninja weren't just a disappointing chain of failures, even trying to level them up with simple sabotages feels like they are just inept to the nth degree. And then some backwater metsuke shows up and executes them on the spot.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Sober posted:

So third time's the charm, ran another Shimazu campaign and finally grabbed all of Kyushu by about 1555. Had a few hairy battles where literally it was just a line of ashigaru pounding at one another (almost one for one) but I must've gotten distracted because they had cavalry and I didn't, so I put all my attention to countering their maneuvers. I pretty much have the whole island, kinda wish there was a way to knock trading boats off posts without declaring war. Do I just move across the land bridge and keep going? Or should I settle for a few turns or something and reorganize my army. It's mostly been ashigaru spam (since someone advised I just blitz the island as much as possible before other clans start outproducing me) so I assume now I need more samurai and mix some cavalry in as well?

I should focus on units produced in provinces with unit production bonuses, roads to move them faster? I actually haven't gotten this far until now so I'm a little lost with where to go with samurai, except for the obvious ones. Naginata sounds like just general all-around good heavy infantry (how is it actually different from swords or yari though?), no-daichi is charge-dependent I'm guessing? Guessing the cavalry equivalents are just samurai with cavalry pro/cons and can dismount?

I do wish my ninja weren't just a disappointing chain of failures, even trying to level them up with simple sabotages feels like they are just inept to the nth degree. And then some backwater metsuke shows up and executes them on the spot.

If you've taken the whole island, then yeah, it's a VERY good idea to stop, rest, and regroup. In fact, strictly speaking you don't even need to go to war now - you can hang back, begin focusing on economic development, and generally improve your power base and infrastructure. You want to expand quickly early on, yes, but once you've gotten about three to five provinces under your belt, or more, you can afford to hang back and build farms, roads, markets, dojos, and all that kind of good stuff. In fact, if you've taken Kyushu, you probably want to do that anyhow to prepare yourself for realm divide. So sit back, research, develop, and generally take it easy. And yeah, building in places that offer production bonuses is a good idea.

Regarding samurai, here's the rundown:

Naginata samurai are the most heavily armored of the lot, which means they're best equipped to last out a slugging match or withstand arrow storms. Excellent troops if you want to focus on creating an unbreakable anvil of a line to hammer on.

Katana samurai are the best all-around units for breaking enemy infantry, and can win most one-on-one fights with anything else...eventually. Very good as a basic line unit, but watch out for cavalry.

Yari samurai are, well, good at killing horses. Useful as early battle-deciders when you're facing mostly ashigaru, and as a reserve to counter cavalry charges.

No-Dachi samurai hit hard and fast with a good charge bonus, but die quickly. Use them to break weaker or wavering sections of an enemy line, or as a flanking force.

Cavalry are dead vital, and I'm kinda impressed you've made it this far without using them. The fact that they're samurai doesn't really matter as much as the fact that they're cavalry. With their excellent mobility and hard-hitting charge, they're your go-to units when you want to flank and break the enemy line, or form a sudden reserve. Don't dismount unless required, they're much better on horseback. Just be careful with them - they're powerful, but like most units in Shogun 2, a bit fragile. Don't send them into scrums unless you need to - they do better by charging, pulling out, and charging again.

All samurai are generally much better than ashigaru for their morale bonus alone - they'll stand and fight long after the ashigaru run away screaming. The main downside is that they cost a lot and take a lot of time to produce, but an all-samurai army is a fearsome thing, and with Kyushu under your control, you should be able to afford to build up your samurai forces to some degree without (much) interference. Also remember that you don't need ALL samurai types, though you probably do want to have either naginata or katana samurai to build up your battle line. You can get by relying on only katanas, or going without no-dachis, or whatnot - just pick a build that suits your strategy (and your research). Definitely do not go without cavalry, though.

Also, if you're having trouble building up your ninja, a slower method of leveling them is to stick them in your armies to act as scouts. It takes a while, but there's no chance of failure, plus it makes your armies go faster and see further. Still a good idea to send them out to bushwhack lone wandering units or outlying buildings or anything else with like a 80% or higher chance of success, though. Even if you do kinda wanna pull out your hair when one of them fails a 95% chance mission.

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

Captain Diarrhoea posted:

Well I started a Stainless Steel early era campaign as Scotland, invaded England like I had ants in my pants and got excommunicated, what do I care gently caress you Pope.

Maybe I've been away from M2 too long, maybe it's Stainless Steel. But what happened to heretics. :stare:

Was it always this loving retarded? I have many fond memories of heretics marching from my cities in legions, and I would have to devote some resources to stamping this out with varying success. Not like this time, where they are invincible gods that convert every single priest, bishop and cardinal to heresy with their maximum piety. Even the lovely priests with no piety were turned into heresy bombs. They're overrunning the British Isles. The inquisition are all over the place and have not made any attempt to kill a heretic forever, preferring instead to spend their assignment hobbling around like someone tread on their balls.

I'm pretty sure it's SS. :eng99:

e: Yeah I'll try ride it out until I can get assassins, there's a weaker heretics mod that is hopefully save game compatible otherwise.

Then the answer is don't bother trying to kill them outright(Especially since Piety also counts for defence against Assassins/inquisitions-unless that changed), at least at first. Buy a lot of priests(From anywhere they'll have extra strength), have them in the same region as the Heretic to counter his preaching-they all stack together with any Churches you've got in the region and any Inquisitors will also improve the switch to whatever religion you've got. Since the religious traits that improve Piety (by default at least) depend on how much the province religion switches to your own, they'll all 'protect' each other and strengthen each other.

I sound authoritative but I'm really not: let me know how it goes.

Bloodly fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jan 14, 2013

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Bloodly posted:

Then the answer is don't bother trying to kill them outright(Especially since Piety also counts for defence against Assassins/inquisitions-unless that changed). Buy a lot of priests, have them in the same region as the Heretic to counter his preaching. The Inquisitors will/should count too as they mod religion where they walk too, as of course, do Churches in the same province. They should get some Piety off this counter=preaching and eventually be able to face the Heretics on even terms. Religious traits by default are based on how much the religion shifts towards or away from your own.

I sound authoritave but I'm really not: let me know how it goes.

This is likely to backfire: unless you have enough priests & churches to get a positive gain on the region's religion total, your priests are in risk of gaining negative piety because they're not making a dent in the heresy. Even then, if they get a single trait that adds to Unorthodoxy (hidden stat apart from trait descriptions; very likely as one of its conditions is being in a region with a heretic), consider them ticking time bombs. Outside of Cardinals which are immune to turning, even a priest with maxed piety has a chance of going heretic as long as he has an Unorthodoxy trait. It's hosed.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Xenoborg posted:

I'm not sure about mods, but the SS super powered heretics were one thing I never felt bad saving scumming.

For those savescumming along - I'm not ENTIRELY sure, but I think the RNG seed doesn't reset on loading until you've done something else - like, if executing a heretic doesn't work, it won't work if you load up again unless you send a spy mission elsewhere first or something like that. I might just be insane, though.

Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007

Tomn posted:

For those savescumming along - I'm not ENTIRELY sure, but I think the RNG seed doesn't reset on loading until you've done something else - like, if executing a heretic doesn't work, it won't work if you load up again unless you send a spy mission elsewhere first or something like that. I might just be insane, though.

This is definitely true, but even just moving a unit 1 space will reset the RNG.

Brownie
Jul 21, 2007
The Croatian Sensation

Xenoborg posted:

This is definitely true, but even just moving a unit 1 space will reset the RNG.

I can't resist save scumming most of the time so when I discovered that game saves included RNG seeds I was pretty happy, but maybe I was wrong or this game does it really poorly! I hope you're wrong though, I can't resist save scumming :(

EDIT: I actually just realized you're not talking about Shogun 2! Whoops

Brownie fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 14, 2013

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Just assassinate them. Encircle the heretic with soldier stacks and then when he has nowhere to go send a soldier in and they'll die. I do it all the time because gently caress heretics and douchey merchants.

Olive Branch
May 26, 2010

There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.

Mans posted:

Just assassinate them. Encircle the heretic with soldier stacks and then when he has nowhere to go send a soldier in and they'll die. I do it all the time because gently caress heretics and douchey merchants.
The Archimedes approach?

Shorter Than Some
May 6, 2009

Brownie posted:

I can't resist save scumming most of the time so when I discovered that game saves included RNG seeds I was pretty happy, but maybe I was wrong or this game does it really poorly! I hope you're wrong though, I can't resist save scumming :(

EDIT: I actually just realized you're not talking about Shogun 2! Whoops

I'm a recovering scum addict myself, I really wish they would detach the ironman mode from the difficulty settings.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Tomn posted:

Shogun 2 :words:
Thanks for the tips. I dunno about anyone else, but S2 really feels like it is the hardest "normal" for me. Maybe it's just fighting almost symmetrical unit types. That or I did not know a thing about Japanese history so it was harder to figure out how social standing to unit classes worked versus the other titles. Let's see:

  • Rome - Roman manipular formations made sense to me, same with the Marian units as well. Doesn't help I was fighting mostly Gauls as Julii
  • Medieval 2 - England, also in vanilla I just guess the AI mostly had large doomstacks but they were stocked mostly with crossbowmen, spear levies and ballistae versus my stacks of knights.
  • Empire - campaign AI was pretty weak, also line infantry shenanigans

I also never got to civil war or whatever CA did in M2 (the horde?). Actually don't know why the civil war didn't trigger in Rome, I had all of Western Europe and North Africa at the time, even scooped up the Levantine provinces. For M2 I modded the timescale to do 6 months so I just got bored after that. I also didn't get a chance to really pump out or play with cavalry in S2 yet, when even in Empire when line infantry spam was vital I still had like 1/5 of my stacks with cavalry units. I was also never that big of an agent person, probably a side effect of having to send out and park diplomats at places to do diplomacy/bribes and were vulnerable to assassinations.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

I'm actually really surprised there's not a Total War: American Civil War or something similar. I suppose it would have balance problems if they tried to do anything remotely reasonable with the economy skew (the north having huge incentives to turtle, etc), and the lack of diplomatic options would be problematic, but the basic warfare of the time seems rather appropriate for the series, especially in light of Empire and Fall's use of line infantry and artillery.

brozozo
Apr 27, 2007

Conclusion: Dinosaurs.

Arcturas posted:

I'm actually really surprised there's not a Total War: American Civil War or something similar. I suppose it would have balance problems if they tried to do anything remotely reasonable with the economy skew (the north having huge incentives to turtle, etc), and the lack of diplomatic options would be problematic, but the basic warfare of the time seems rather appropriate for the series, especially in light of Empire and Fall's use of line infantry and artillery.
Maybe foreign relations could be based upon your success or ineptitude in the field. For example, the CSA could gain diplomatic recognition from Britain or France if they capture a certain number of northern state capitals or win several decisive victories. Sort of like France's support after the American victory at Saratoga.

nessin
Feb 7, 2010

Arcturas posted:

I'm actually really surprised there's not a Total War: American Civil War or something similar. I suppose it would have balance problems if they tried to do anything remotely reasonable with the economy skew (the north having huge incentives to turtle, etc), and the lack of diplomatic options would be problematic, but the basic warfare of the time seems rather appropriate for the series, especially in light of Empire and Fall's use of line infantry and artillery.

The Total War system wouldn't work for a conflict with ACW, it's too short in duration with too many extras considerations (being a civil war and all that entails compared to a more traditional conflict). At best you could do something similar to the Napoleon scenarios, but it wouldn't make for a good game or representation of the war.

Edit:
That isn't even counting that the ACW is the first major shift in battle tactics that the system can't handle. Trenches and shifting from line combat to fronts and independent commands... Really the limit of the Total War system is Napoleon with the slight detour to Franco-Prussian.

nessin fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jan 15, 2013

Electric Pope
Oct 29, 2011

Oh I'm still alive
I'm still alive
I can't apologize, no
I was about to say Fall of the Samurai begs to differ, but then again if anything FOTS presents problems that would only be worse in the American Civil War, plus the Boshin war was kind of a unique situation.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


It's probably too much of a change but I hope the next Total War game is in a fictional setting. How cool would that be?

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Doctor Reynolds posted:

It's probably too much of a change but I hope the next Total War game is in a fictional setting. How cool would that be?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/06/the-creative-assembly-making-games-workshop-games/ :colbert:

Captain Diarrhoea
Apr 16, 2011
The flood of heretics in my Scotland campaign came too early for assassins, in the end I installed a weaker heretics submod and save scummed until the generation of turboheretics were mostly burned, the ones that followed after were normally about 3 - 5 piety which is enough but not unmanageable. I don't really feel bad since the strong heretics seem to have been an accident anyway.

Norway got a huge hard on for naval invasion for some reason and I had to start sinking doom stacks in the sea repeatedly between the Pope's cease hostilites (die Scotland die) commands. Eventually I counter invaded and destroy Kingdom of Norway in two pretty sweet battles, one where I smashed one army and had to wheel round at the last second to fight a second one. The rest turned independent, so I'm guessing that if the royal family is wiped then so is the faction? I don't recall that being the case when I played before, but then maybe there have always been generals to promote.

Shasta Orange Soda
Apr 25, 2007
I mostly just left the Stainless Steel heretics alone unless I had an assassin that happened to be nearby. They're powerful, but there aren't really enough of them to do any serious damage. I get pretty lazy on letting those tiny rebel armies live, too. They never seem to really do anything anyway. Does having one in your territory reduce your income? If it does, I guess it's not by much because I never noticed.

quote:

Norway got a huge hard on for naval invasion for some reason and I had to start sinking doom stacks in the sea repeatedly between the Pope's cease hostilites (die Scotland die) commands.

Just keep paying the pope off. If your favor with the pope is above 6 or 7, he won't excommunicate you even though the dialog box tells you he will. You'll fail the Cease Hostilities submission and lose a little bit of favor, but you can buy that favor right back with more gifts. Keeping the pope on a regular tribute of 100/turn with an extra gift of 1000-3000 florins once every few turns if you're attacking other Catholics will be more than enough to keep you at 8+ favor.

Captain Diarrhoea
Apr 16, 2011

Shasta Orange Soda posted:

I get pretty lazy on letting those tiny rebel armies live, too. They never seem to really do anything anyway. Does having one in your territory reduce your income?

I thought they caused unrest in a territory but having just checked seems like I may be wrong. I've had English rebels sitting near York for like 40 turns, I use them as a kind of training dummy for assassins.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Shasta Orange Soda posted:

I mostly just left the Stainless Steel heretics alone unless I had an assassin that happened to be nearby. They're powerful, but there aren't really enough of them to do any serious damage. I get pretty lazy on letting those tiny rebel armies live, too. They never seem to really do anything anyway. Does having one in your territory reduce your income? If it does, I guess it's not by much because I never noticed.

I think if they park on a road they'll reduce trade income, and if they're big enough they cause devastation, but the tiny little random stacks bumming around the backwoods aren't really worth bothering with most of the time I find, save as training dummies for assassins, spies, or young generals you want to make warriors.

Captain Diarrhoea
Apr 16, 2011
Despite bitching out SS it is a pretty superb mod, I didn't enjoy M2 half as much before. Everyone hates my guts for being an imperialist pig so diplomacy has mostly gone out the window, my only ally was France who rolled over and joined Genoa against me. Europe's in a kind of multicultural holocaust at the moment, I must have taken too long stepping in so there are weird Italian empires and Lithuanian colonies where there shouldn't be. :colbert:

I've become much less lazy in battles as well now that the AI don't just meander indecisively in arrow range, there have been some great 2v1 situations that I've clutched with mad dashes of knights all over the map. The recruitment system has added a lot to the overall strategy, I think I checked a realism option that makes you really value your homegrown knights and gives a great incentive to actually use/discard mercenaries for certain campaigns.

On a barely related note I'd like to share one of history's most embarassing deaths, that of one Henry de Bohun, who allegedly took a swipe at the King of Scotland and made an arse of it within walking distance of where I'm sitting.

Topped by his uncle Humphrey whose death certificate today might have read Cause of Death: Pike to anus.

Captain Diarrhoea fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jan 16, 2013

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

Electric Pope posted:

I was about to say Fall of the Samurai begs to differ, but then again if anything FOTS presents problems that would only be worse in the American Civil War, plus the Boshin war was kind of a unique situation.

Yeah, FotS really shows that once you get past a certain point artillery and other heavy weapons make large formations pretty unviable, and those are one of the main things that Total War does well and sets it apart from other games. Most of my later battles on the imperial side consisted of putting my veteran cannons on a hill, some line infantry around them and then I'd go read a book or something while the enemy gets mercilessly ripped apart before even getting close.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Perestroika posted:

Yeah, FotS really shows that once you get past a certain point artillery and other heavy weapons make large formations pretty unviable, and those are one of the main things that Total War does well and sets it apart from other games. Most of my later battles on the imperial side consisted of putting my veteran cannons on a hill, some line infantry around them and then I'd go read a book or something while the enemy gets mercilessly ripped apart before even getting close.

Keep in mind this kind of warfare requires a slightly more complex AI that 'gets' manuvering, terrain height and firing zones. Something I guess we won't have for another two Total War games.

Acute Grill
Dec 9, 2011

Chomp

Arcturas posted:

I'm actually really surprised there's not a Total War: American Civil War or something similar. I suppose it would have balance problems if they tried to do anything remotely reasonable with the economy skew (the north having huge incentives to turtle, etc), and the lack of diplomatic options would be problematic, but the basic warfare of the time seems rather appropriate for the series, especially in light of Empire and Fall's use of line infantry and artillery.

I think it's mostly an AI/Engine limitations thing, since a sizable portion of TW's fanbase seems to want an American Civil War game really badly. Were it not for ETW and NTW being notoriously impossible to mod, the mod community would probably be up to its eyeballs in bitter angry arguments over the threadcount on officers' coats in the Union Army.

Was digging through my big box of mostly-forgotten game disks and it turns out I owned the gold edition of Medieval 2! :buddy:

Forgot about how much I enjoy the Papal side-game in this, and I wish that they would have done something similar for Shogun 2's notoriety thing. Obviously, you wouldn't be able to game succession toward you and your allies like you could in M2, but it would have been nice to have a more dynamic way of gaming your notoriety with the Shogunate. It would have been cooler if you could stave off realm divide by staying in their good graces, or get declared a traitor quickly if you completely ignored their wishes.

NihilVerumNisiMors
Aug 16, 2012
I reinstalled SH2 because I figured I've got the Ikko Ikki pack lying around but never got around playing them.

poo poo is hard! Everybody hates you, you're smack in the middle and holding onto what you captured takes time. Anyone here got any ideas on how to start out properly with the Ikko?

dtkozl
Dec 17, 2001

ultima ratio regum

Captain Diarrhoea posted:

Despite bitching out SS it is a pretty superb mod, I didn't enjoy M2 half as much before. Everyone hates my guts for being an imperialist pig so diplomacy has mostly gone out the window, my only ally was France who rolled over and joined Genoa against me. Europe's in a kind of multicultural holocaust at the moment, I must have taken too long stepping in so there are weird Italian empires and Lithuanian colonies where there shouldn't be. :colbert:

I've become much less lazy in battles as well now that the AI don't just meander indecisively in arrow range, there have been some great 2v1 situations that I've clutched with mad dashes of knights all over the map. The recruitment system has added a lot to the overall strategy, I think I checked a realism option that makes you really value your homegrown knights and gives a great incentive to actually use/discard mercenaries for certain campaigns.

On a barely related note I'd like to share one of history's most embarassing deaths, that of one Henry de Bohun, who allegedly took a swipe at the King of Scotland and made an arse of it within walking distance of where I'm sitting.

Topped by his uncle Humphrey whose death certificate today might have read Cause of Death: Pike to anus.

Yeah SS is great I had an amazing siege last night where the ai actually made several holes in my wall before assaulting. I had 3 urban spears, 3 peasants, one levy archer, and my general and managed to win by exploiting his lack of cavalry and the schiltron. I had 6 knights and less than 20 men left after, but I won.

ReV VAdAUL
Oct 3, 2004

I'm WILD about
WILDMAN
I think the turn based side of the Civil War would also be a problem. Given a lot of the decisions Lincoln (and maybe Jefferson Davis too, I don't know much about Confederate political strategy) made were informed by a need to appease domestic and to a lesser extent international opinion. Democracy isn't something Total War games have had to deal with before and it would be very hard to model the unique strains civil war placed upon a fledgling modern democracy.

State's rights could be a problem too. Up to now all territories in TW games have been under your dictatorial control or semi-autonomous vassals. Quite how the States related to the Federal or Confederate government was a key point of dispute during the war and would again probably be very difficult to model in a TW game.

Now of course you could simplify all this stuff but then you run into the problems why exactly the North with its' massive industrial advantage, freed from the strategically questionable decisions of its' less competent generals doesn't romp to victory.

Personally just having two sides to choose from would be kinda boring but if the game took place across the Americas it'd be much more interesting to me. I understand though that would probably make it even harder for the Civil War itself to be done well.

On a side note I was looking at Civil War naval battles (in terms of how frequently they occured) to see how interesting they'd be to play. Turns out they would be but I also learnt about The Battle of Memphis which had the description "Last time in history civilians with no military or naval experience were permitted to command warships in combat". It went about as well as you'd expect for the civilian commanders.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
My preferred strategy with the Ikko Ikki was to expand as 'peacefully' as possible. Incite religious revolts and they'll flip to your allegiance if successful. You can nab provinces off clans you're at peace with this way.

Morton Salt Grrl
Sep 2, 2011

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
FRESH BLOOD


May their memory be a justification for genocide

NihilVerumNisiMors posted:

I reinstalled SH2 because I figured I've got the Ikko Ikki pack lying around but never got around playing them.

poo poo is hard! Everybody hates you, you're smack in the middle and holding onto what you captured takes time. Anyone here got any ideas on how to start out properly with the Ikko?

Build the temples for great garrison units, use the bowyer upgrade to get deadly bow monks and the smithy for better warrior monks (don't forget their ability!), and gooooooooooooo.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

ReV VAdAUL posted:

I think the turn based side of the Civil War would also be a problem. Given a lot of the decisions Lincoln (and maybe Jefferson Davis too, I don't know much about Confederate political strategy) made were informed by a need to appease domestic and to a lesser extent international opinion. Democracy isn't something Total War games have had to deal with before and it would be very hard to model the unique strains civil war placed upon a fledgling modern democracy.

State's rights could be a problem too. Up to now all territories in TW games have been under your dictatorial control or semi-autonomous vassals. Quite how the States related to the Federal or Confederate government was a key point of dispute during the war and would again probably be very difficult to model in a TW game.

Don't forget ETW tried to model Governments and Politics with the Ministers and the Republic/Monarchy/Total Monarchy system which you needed to at least keep an eye on if you didn't want overpaid fops dragging you into debt. Something slightly deeper, a long with a more intelligent AI and the addition of a few more Southern American factions and Imperial Spain to add to variety and a US Civil War Total War could work. Maybe something combined with the Papal Missions from RTW?

NihilVerumNisiMors
Aug 16, 2012

Teddles posted:

Build the temples for great garrison units, use the bowyer upgrade to get deadly bow monks and the smithy for better warrior monks (don't forget their ability!), and gooooooooooooo.

So I should turtle for a while first?

Morton Salt Grrl
Sep 2, 2011

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
FRESH BLOOD


May their memory be a justification for genocide

NihilVerumNisiMors posted:

So I should turtle for a while first?

No, expand at a leisurely pace. You don't need bow monks straight away, just develop into them naturally; naginata warrior monks are pretty necessary, but easy to get. Just make sure that your border provinces are well-fortified and garrisoned (and don't forget that a level two monastery gives you two free warrior monk garrison units on top of castle garrisons, those help a lot). Because the AI will be fielding full stacks in no time while you're still fielding half a stack, your basic strategy should be to destroy enemy stacks in defensive sieges, then go and take their undefended province. Rinse and repeat. And again, don't forget the warrior monk special ability.

ReV VAdAUL
Oct 3, 2004

I'm WILD about
WILDMAN

SeanBeansShako posted:

Don't forget ETW tried to model Governments and Politics with the Ministers and the Republic/Monarchy/Total Monarchy system which you needed to at least keep an eye on if you didn't want overpaid fops dragging you into debt. Something slightly deeper, a long with a more intelligent AI and the addition of a few more Southern American factions and Imperial Spain to add to variety and a US Civil War Total War could work. Maybe something combined with the Papal Missions from RTW?

Thats a good point, something like that could work. France could also play into this because apparently a French puppet took over Mexico in 1863, thinking about this has put me on a wikipedia binge.

For a system like that though ideally you'd first want a game democracies fighting other nations so that they could test out how well the system worked with elections mostly choosing how you much resources you had for wars, impetus for which enemies to fight and pushes for ceasefire. A sort of precursor like Empire was to Napoleon. The problem with introducing the system for Civil War is that there was some potential for at least some of the states to vote to leave the Union. Of course wars fought by democracies mostly happen after the period that suits TW, its tricky.

Nonetheless though, your idea is a good one.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
I also think a deeper more detailed campaign victory condition rule set would work with an American Civil War Total War. Maybe have something like a Bad Boy point system for Iron Man difficulty that forces you to give you focus with expansion instead of painting the map your factions colour which would make you look like a bloody thirsty land hungry Imperialist.

I'd also like the option to capture surrendering and wounded soldiers/Officers back and the ability to imprison or negotiate with them.

a pipe smoking dog
Jan 25, 2010

"haha, dogs can't smoke!"
I've played a fun game of Rome and the Medieval recently so decided to give Empire another spin.

God that is a boring as hell game.

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MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

John Charity Spring posted:

My preferred strategy with the Ikko Ikki was to expand as 'peacefully' as possible. Incite religious revolts and they'll flip to your allegiance if successful. You can nab provinces off clans you're at peace with this way.

I used wave after wave of Loanswords backed up with warcrying-Monks, worked pretty well. Only downside was that until I managed to nab a few trade nodes I had a fairly long wait between battles since casualties were high and I only had one stack. Plus with no access to Nanbans, I had to actually learn how to fight naval battles in order to keep those nodes.

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